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Paradox Games VIII: Oh no it's the British Raj...Fascinating

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Which game (if applicable) just isn't for you, most of all?

EUIV
13
18%
CK2
7
10%
Stellaris
7
10%
HoI3
7
10%
HoI4
12
17%
Imperator: Rome
20
28%
Victoria 2
5
7%
 
Total votes : 71

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21023
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun May 12, 2019 7:30 am

Purpelia wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
“Balancing.”

F*** that sort of balancing. Balance in a strategy game should come from having to solve intellectual problems, devise strategies and implement them. Not from having random numerical modifiers thrown at you as flat penalties.


I'm sorry you want to play as an overpowered immortal, I guess.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31429
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 am

Valrifell wrote:
Purpelia wrote:F*** that sort of balancing. Balance in a strategy game should come from having to solve intellectual problems, devise strategies and implement them. Not from having random numerical modifiers thrown at you as flat penalties.


I'm sorry you want to play as an overpowered immortal, I guess.

No. What I want is for my strategy games to have strategic challenges as opposed to random crippling modifiers I can't do anything about. It's the equivalent of a football game where you get random unsolicited red cards to handicap you if you are winning too hard.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21023
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun May 12, 2019 9:12 am

Purpelia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I'm sorry you want to play as an overpowered immortal, I guess.

No. What I want is for my strategy games to have strategic challenges as opposed to random crippling modifiers I can't do anything about. It's the equivalent of a football game where you get random unsolicited red cards to handicap you if you are winning too hard.


This whole conversation started because you got miffed because the game has opinion debuffs for being an immortal and there's not really a whole of of strategic ways to not make that strategically overpowered, since that's half the point of becoming immortal in the first place. There are no conceivable ways to balance immortality in the way you're talking about because in a game like CK2, you could just hypothetically max out stats through carefully maxing out stats over the years, if you want to play that way that's fine, but I don't think you ought to expect Paradox to make immortality a de facto win condition.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31429
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun May 12, 2019 10:34 am

Valrifell wrote:This whole conversation started because you got miffed because the game has opinion debuffs for being an immortal and there's not really a whole of of strategic ways to not make that strategically overpowered, since that's half the point of becoming immortal in the first place.

Nonsense. There are plenty of ways to do it. Like for example you becoming immortal could suddenly bring you to the attention of other immortals far older and better connected than you who could than start scheming to evict you. Which by the way really is what those secret societies should have been as well. Instead of just being a small handful of events and flavor.

Can you imagine if Satanism wasn't just a small fad thing where your guy can go from small county ruler to head of the conspiracy in one lifetime but actually your entire bloodline joining a multi generation effort to claw their way up the ladder of an ancient conspiracy to end the world through evil magical power. All the while juggling the needs of your realm, trying not to get discovered and trying to scheme, murder, undermine or outplay your opponents at the same time.

It could have added a whole new layer of strategic depth to the game.

There are no conceivable ways to balance immortality in the way you're talking about because in a game like CK2, you could just hypothetically max out stats through carefully maxing out stats over the years, if you want to play that way that's fine, but I don't think you ought to expect Paradox to make immortality a de facto win condition.

Than don't include it. If you can't do something right don't do it at all.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun May 12, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39186
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun May 12, 2019 10:36 am

Ive never got to be immortal in ck2... that woman who shows up in the events always screws me or i fuck it up... am sad
Scary Spooky Leftist #19879417 An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Loyal to Dragonstone and the King in the Narrow Sea

I dont like politics in video games. My favourite game is Witcher III
-oppressed gamer
Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31429
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun May 12, 2019 10:37 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Ive never got to be immortal in ck2... that woman who shows up in the events always screws me or i fuck it up... am sad

You aren't missing much. Basically your character won't die but he can still get cancer and stuff which will wreck your stats. And than some 60 or so years down the line you'll start getting "immortal suspicion" malluses to your relation with EVERYONE which make the game unplayable. But you won't have to worry much because by the time that happens your character will inevitably grow insane.

And yet at the same time there is so little flavor to the whole thing that you don't really gain anything in return. The only real benefit is that you have all the time in the world to complete what ever project you have. But that only makes it boring by revealing just how unchallenging these things can get when you are not up against a clock.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun May 12, 2019 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 130713
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 12, 2019 12:26 pm

I don't play CK2, but it sounds like it would have been weirder for other characters to not care that the player is living a suspiciously long time.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 2640
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Sun May 12, 2019 12:38 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
“Balancing.”

F*** that sort of balancing. Balance in a strategy game should come from having to solve intellectual problems, devise strategies and implement them. Not from having random numerical modifiers thrown at you as flat penalties.


It's not like CK2 is even that balanced to begin with.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

User avatar
Dawetid
Diplomat
 
Posts: 784
Founded: Jul 12, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dawetid » Sun May 12, 2019 12:38 pm

Ifreann wrote:I don't play CK2, but it sounds like it would have been weirder for other characters to not care that the player is living a suspiciously long time.

Well, the player is not a single character. :p
This year was really unlucky.
My Discord server is dead, I've been defamed on NS, my father is sick (and my mother is blaming me for it), and I've failed the exams.
And now everyone on NS has a scheme against me.
Those that wanted to see me fall, are you happy now? (You know who you are)

User avatar
Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2176
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I'm sorry you want to play as an overpowered immortal, I guess.

No. What I want is for my strategy games to have strategic challenges as opposed to random crippling modifiers I can't do anything about. It's the equivalent of a football game where you get random unsolicited red cards to handicap you if you are winning too hard.

Yes!
Proud Member of The Western Isles, the Best RP region on NS.
An RP I'm Proud of: Orsandian Civil War
An INTJ, -A/-T

Economic Left/Right: -5.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 130713
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun May 12, 2019 1:34 pm

Dawetid wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I don't play CK2, but it sounds like it would have been weirder for other characters to not care that the player is living a suspiciously long time.

Well, the player is not a single character. :p

I would think that you rather are once you become immortal.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39186
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun May 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Image

The sacrifice that every ruler makes.


For the realm.
Scary Spooky Leftist #19879417 An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Loyal to Dragonstone and the King in the Narrow Sea

I dont like politics in video games. My favourite game is Witcher III
-oppressed gamer
Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

User avatar
Lunas Legion
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29324
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Lunas Legion » Sun May 12, 2019 2:14 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:(Image)

The sacrifice that every ruler makes.


For the realm.


Make them a commander, send them out to sea, wait for them to die from scurvy. Is genius. At least in HIP.
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

Confirmed member of Kylaris Loominarty Membership can be applied for here

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 2640
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Sun May 12, 2019 2:16 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:(Image)

The sacrifice that every ruler makes.


For the realm.


This is why I love Dharmic religious mechanics in the game.

Getting to choose which of your children you want to be your heir is such a relief.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

User avatar
Impaled Nazarene
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8007
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Sun May 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:(Image)

The sacrifice that every ruler makes.


For the realm.


This is why I love Dharmic religious mechanics in the game.

Getting to choose which of your children you want to be your heir is such a relief.

Laughs in Open succession and polygamy
Non-binary Aromantic Asexual Asperger's Syndrome Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

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Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 13, 2019 5:12 am

Ifreann wrote:I don't play CK2, but it sounds like it would have been weirder for other characters to not care that the player is living a suspiciously long time.

If you're not doing anything to draw attention to yourself and you were reasonably old when you became immortal, then it actually makes a certain amount of sense.
At the same time, you'd think that people would notice that a 60 year old doesn't look a day over 20 (if you were 20 or so when you gained immortality), and you'd DEFINITELY think people would spot something fishy if your children look older than you.
Last edited by Evil Dictators Happyland on Mon May 13, 2019 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

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Bralia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29217
Founded: Mar 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bralia » Mon May 13, 2019 7:37 am

Quite the amount of new stuff regarding governments in I:R's 1.1 patch. And power costs for a fair amount of things are actually being removed in favor of more meaningful penalties. I think that's the bit I like the most.
Romantic slut. Self-deprecating egotist. Benevolent communist.
Wife and queen to King Huskar the Mannis. May his reign be long and great.
Entranced and enchanted by an embrace. In love with locked lips. I cannot lie when I meet your eyes.

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Alvecia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18169
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon May 13, 2019 8:01 am

Bralia wrote:Quite the amount of new stuff regarding governments in I:R's 1.1 patch. And power costs for a fair amount of things are actually being removed in favor of more meaningful penalties. I think that's the bit I like the most.

Sounds like women might actually be good for something other than making babies, if you’re not using the gender neutral button.
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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Bralia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29217
Founded: Mar 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bralia » Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 am

I decided to click the Randomize button that Stellaris has for empire creation because I've literally never touched the button before and I thought it would be funny to see what would happen. I was not disappointed. I rolled Fanatic Militarist/Egalitarians that had the modded Lethargic trait, which makes army damage absolutely dreadful.
Romantic slut. Self-deprecating egotist. Benevolent communist.
Wife and queen to King Huskar the Mannis. May his reign be long and great.
Entranced and enchanted by an embrace. In love with locked lips. I cannot lie when I meet your eyes.

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 am

Bralia wrote:I decided to click the Randomize button that Stellaris has for empire creation because I've literally never touched the button before and I thought it would be funny to see what would happen. I was not disappointed. I rolled Fanatic Militarist/Egalitarians that had the modded Lethargic trait, which makes army damage absolutely dreadful.

"You'd better accept democracy or we'll, uh, do something about it!"
*dictator ignores their message*
"GOSHDARNIT EMPEROR GLOMPER I'M SERIOUS"
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Bralia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29217
Founded: Mar 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bralia » Mon May 13, 2019 10:36 am

This is fun. I rolled a Devouring Swarm that has surprisingly fitting and synergistic, except for one particular trait: Apparently they're very curious about how other societies work.
Romantic slut. Self-deprecating egotist. Benevolent communist.
Wife and queen to King Huskar the Mannis. May his reign be long and great.
Entranced and enchanted by an embrace. In love with locked lips. I cannot lie when I meet your eyes.

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39186
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon May 13, 2019 11:31 am

Bralia wrote:This is fun. I rolled a Devouring Swarm that has surprisingly fitting and synergistic, except for one particular trait: Apparently they're very curious about how other societies work.

"Before we devour you, we shall learn of your customs, your politics, your history and indeed your art. So explain, we will wait"
"...."
Scary Spooky Leftist #19879417 An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Loyal to Dragonstone and the King in the Narrow Sea

I dont like politics in video games. My favourite game is Witcher III
-oppressed gamer
Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

User avatar
Impaled Nazarene
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8007
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Mon May 13, 2019 12:20 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Bralia wrote:This is fun. I rolled a Devouring Swarm that has surprisingly fitting and synergistic, except for one particular trait: Apparently they're very curious about how other societies work.

"Before we devour you, we shall learn of your customs, your politics, your history and indeed your art. So explain, we will wait"
"...."

Chapel Comics get on it.
Non-binary Aromantic Asexual Asperger's Syndrome Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

User avatar
Renoa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1396
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Renoa » Mon May 13, 2019 12:23 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Bralia wrote:This is fun. I rolled a Devouring Swarm that has surprisingly fitting and synergistic, except for one particular trait: Apparently they're very curious about how other societies work.

"Before we devour you, we shall learn of your customs, your politics, your history and indeed your art. So explain, we will wait"
"...."

The Borg, if the Borg were hipsters who went to a small private liberal arts college in New England and smoke clove cigarettes.
I'm the Paradox Thread's Self-Appointed Court Chaplain. Don't tell Huskar, even though someone already did.
Sapin Military District wrote:If god doesn't exist, then why does a tissue pop up every time you take the old one out of the box?

Benomia 3 wrote: Well if we're sharing our feelings now, I feel that royal purple is a fine color, but sadly underused in modern fashion.
Pro: Emo revival, fighting climate change, the New Orleans Saints, thick thighs, Mean Girls
Anti: Egos larger than my own, Eurocentrism, most seafood, the designated hitter rule, the Atlanta Falcons

User avatar
Platypus Bureaucracy
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1641
Founded: Jun 06, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Platypus Bureaucracy » Mon May 13, 2019 1:32 pm

I've bought HoI4 and: why are all the Spanish just standing around in lines? So may divisions just standing in lines and not attacking.

Orwell was right. Mañana, Mañana! It's amazing anyone even got around to starting a civil war.
Platypus of the non-venomous, egg-laying variety
Platypus Bureaucracy wrote:I will never stop being a gay platypus.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:You glorifted ducking wanabe sea pheasant

Platapusses are not rel

Ostroeuropa wrote:"Can we just eat SOME of the rich?"

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