Big Stompy Mechs.

[Jagalonia]

With Battletech on the horizon, I've been looking into D&D campaign nonsense incorporating mechs into one of my campaigns and it has me wondering. Knowing that mechs are bad and you should feel bad for all of the reasons, what would the hard physical limitations of a mech be, size and weight wise?

Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I've been gone for quite a while...

[Tinfect]

Well, I don't think an Atlas would be particularly practical, for starters.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, I don't think an Atlas would be particularly practical, for starters.

Especially since that pig only has a nine hex firing range and is slow as shit. Silly 'mech.

[Trotskylvania]

Look at how big animals get. Organic machinery is very robust and energy efficient, with a good strength to weight ratio. Notice that there aren't many bipedal animals bigger than humans. Most of them are extinct, and they didn't walk upright, but rather balanced in a horizontal position using tails as a counterbalance.

We can conclude that making something bipedal that is larger than the average human is a bad idea. Tall humans have a lot of health problems that come with the strain.

From this we could observe that making your mecha much larger than form-fitting power armor or a Tau Crisis Battlesuit is probably a bad idea.

[Hirota]

Soooo, Battletech backer on kickstarter, and MWO player since the public beta. If I looked hard enough I might find my copies of Mechcommander and Mechwarrior Ghost Bears Legacy. I like big giant robots.

At the moment, the biggest limitations are probably on power generation. Isn't really a way to create the amount of power to actually move a 100 ton mech, let alone have it fire lasers.

[Cannot think of a name]

Trying to figure out if mechs can work in the 'real world' misses the point. It's giant machines punching each other and shooting each other.

[Tinfect]

I suggest we direct our efforts to the humble and honorable Urbanmech.

[Freilibre]

Look at how big animals get. Organic machinery is very robust and energy efficient, with a good strength to weight ratio. Notice that there aren't many bipedal animals bigger than humans. Most of them are extinct, and they didn't walk upright, but rather balanced in a horizontal position using tails as a counterbalance.

We can conclude that making something bipedal that is larger than the average human is a bad idea. Tall humans have a lot of health problems that come with the strain.

From this we could observe that making your mecha much larger than form-fitting power armor or a Tau Crisis Battlesuit is probably a bad idea.

This actually brings up a really good point. I got reminded of this VSauce video too, and I think it’s fairly relevant. https://youtu.be/DkzQxw16G9w

[Zyr and Pony]

Biggest issue I see is the Square cube law. Basically the volume of something increases faster than its area when you scale it up, which you have to compensate for

[Reploid Productions]

With Battletech on the horizon, I've been looking into D&D campaign nonsense incorporating mechs into one of my campaigns and it has me wondering. Knowing that mechs are bad and you should feel bad for all of the reasons, what would the hard physical limitations of a mech be, size and weight wise?

Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I've been gone for quite a while...

*quietly tows thread over to A&F*
Well, the limitations kinda depend on your setting. Anything remotely realistic, you're probably looking at practical sizing being only a little larger than a human, like a power armor type of dealie. Realistically, the Square-Cube law is a harsh mistress, and realistic materials and power sources make giant stompy robots simply not physically practical.

Buuuuut.... if you're talking a DnD campaign setting, who says you gotta play by those rules? Most giant mecha shows have some form of handwavium to make the mecha work in their settings, be it Gundam's Minovsky particles, Macross' bizarre alien tech, Gurren Lagann literally running on Rule of Cool hotbloodedness, and so on. Square-Cube law? HA! Build your DnD mecha out of magical super-lightweight/durable materials! Power generation? That shit runs on pure MAGIC, yo! Stuff the captured soul of an angry goddamn GOD into that contraption!

Really, what's practical/possible in a fictional setting really heavily hinges on what the setting is. If you've got a setting with gigantic dragons, why not have giant mecha to fight 'em?
And now I'm seriously envisioning my dragonborn bard piloting some kinda giant magic-mecha because of this thread.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I suggest we direct our efforts to the humble and honorable Urbanmech.

Brohei. UrbanMech is perfection.

[Tinfect]

Brohei. UrbanMech is perfection.

Ah, I see you are a Mechwarrior of culture as well.
Not anybody's bro, though.

[The New California Republic]

what would the hard physical limitations of a mech be, size and weight wise?

I think the bigger problem would be to maintain a good center of gravity, which is essential in the stability of any moving weapons system, from fighter jets to tanks. It would be even more important when applied to a weapon system walking on legs, with such a high center of gravity. Weapons designers try to keep the center of gravity as low as possible in a moving weapons system, to ensure maximum stability, as it is important to ensure a stable platform for the sensors to work reliably and accurately, and also the onboard weapons to be as accurate as possible. However, a walking weapons system will naturally have a very high center of gravity, which would require complex servos, hydraulics, and computer control systems to maintain the machine in an upright and stable state, all of which adds to the size and weight of the machine. The first mechs will most likely not be bipedal at all, but quadripedal, using four legs and four feet to provide stability, like the AT-AT in Star Wars.

I question the logic of mechs as a weapons system in the first place, as their height will make them a tempting target. The USSR, for example, always tried to make their tanks as low as possible, to ensure maximum chances of survivability. The only real advantage of the height of a mech would be the terror factor that it would exert on enemy troops, as well as increased sensor and weapons range. The feet of the mechs would also exert a very high pounds per square inch pressure on the ground, meaning that they would likely crack roads and bridges, and also sink into soft ground and become bogged down.

Some people love the idea of mechs, I have always been put off by the problems inherent with their concept.

[Aclion]

Don't forget that all that height has to be armored as well, as it is a tempting target. Part of the reason tanks are designed to have a low profile is that it reduces the area that needs armoring, and that it means it's easier to take cover behind things.

[The New California Republic]

Don't forget that all that height has to be armored as well, as it is a tempting target. Part of the reason tanks are designed to have a low profile is that it reduces the area that needs armoring, and that it means it's easier to take cover behind things.

Yes I implied it under survivability.

[Hirota]

Really, what's practical/possible in a fictional setting really heavily hinges on what the setting is. If you've got a setting with gigantic dragons, why not have giant mecha to fight 'em?
And now I'm seriously envisioning my dragonborn bard piloting some kinda giant magic-mecha because of this thread.

It worked for Pacific Rim!

[Jagalonia]

All the usual arguments that don't change, square cube law, ground pressure, silhouette, weapon platform issues, falling over and breaking your hip... I'm more concerned at the point a 15-20 foot mech would just sink into the ground too much to be able to strut it's stuff. I'm not planning on going pacific rim huge with them (Dragon born in a mech suit would be f***ing hilarious though.) The logic behind using them I'm going for is that ground contact screws with plasma shielding, so the less contact you have with the ground, the more effective a plasma shield would be. There is also intimidation factor (Like in warhammer, though, the mechanicus in general doesn't tend to care about silly meatbag concepts such as "physics"...) but it's somewhat negligible when both sides have them.

[Cannot think of a name]

Man, this game moved past me by a bunch. I was an early, early adopter. How early? My first set was still called Battledroids. I used to do tournaments a lot and won most of the time. I was trying to remember what my combo was (tourneys in my area were two mechs equaling 110 tons or 115, can't remember exactly. Pretty sure it was 110.) so I went looking up the 'mechs...man, has this game moved past me by bunches. I checked out during the invasion when all the new 'mechs were introduced...can't even remember what that event was called. The part I liked the most about the setting was the part that was never going to last and sustain a system. It's not like they were going to release new source books that told you what 'mechs and parts of the game no longer work because of the ravages of war. But I liked the whole, "We've been at this so long we lost the ability to make new ones and don't even know how fucking jump ships work anymore so we'll all agree they're off limits or we're bone." That you had to patch your mech together from spare parts, the dispossessed, I dug all of that shit. But, as I said, you can't sell source books on a dwindling setting.

I have no idea what's going on now. I miss my tourney days though. Especially the dudes that wasted their tonnage on a big boy and then some light 'mech. They'd always send that little bastard forward to get completely shredded and then have to face my two mediums with their pokey ass heavy 'mech. I was one of them in my first match, I had a Victor which, thanks to the wonders of game mechanics and a ridiculously lucky roll, I jumped on one leg to win a match and then realized...wait! I remember that combo, I can figure out the tonnage from that! Victor 80, Panther 35. So it was 115...anyway, I realized a more even split in tonnage would work better for me since I couldn't count on pogoing through the next round.

As you can imagine, there are not a lot of openings to talk about your heyday as a competitive Battletech player...