Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[Bearon Uncensored]

Ism's actually right there.

[Northern Davincia]

At the time of RoTJ's release, nobody knew those Stormtroopers were 501st. In the context of the film, they're just average soldiers.

Actually, the Emperor does refer to them as a legion of his best troops.

Ah, you are right on that. Maybe it would have helped if they were visually different.

[Jedi Council]

1. Dialogue with actual substance substituted for oneliners in an attempt to get cheap laughs from the audience.

Seriously, there's a way to be funny without sacrificing substance. Take Luke and Han's conversation about the Falcon:

Luke: What a piece of junk!

Han: She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts, kid.

The exchange is funny but it doesn't feel forced because you can easily imagine a real life scenario like the one the scene portrays where someone is hassling a guy about their old junker and the guy gets defensive about it because they've had it for a lot of years and put a lot of work into. Compare that to Rey's deadpan delivery of lines like:

"I've seen your schedule. You're not busy."

It's not natural. It's a comment made solely to evoke laughter from the audience and it stands out in comparison to the OT's more natural dialogue as a result.

2. Inconsistencies created simply to give the audience fanservice ( Yoda summoning lightning/SJW general destroying a fleet with a hyperdrive jump ).

3. The villains of the story completely neutered as valid threats or characters we can take seriously ( Snoke dressing down Kylo and Hux having "yo mama" jokes told to him and being thrown around by Kylo and Snoke ).

Compare Tarkin in ANH with Hux in TLJ. Tarkin is established as competent and in command with his first scene ending in the destruction of a planet and him being shown to possess authority over even the likes of Vader whereas Hux can't even deal with a single rebel fighter with a fleet of Star Destroyer's at his back.

4. Carrying out character assassination on one of the most beloved characters in the franchise.

The same guy who offered mercy to genocidal maniacs steeped in the Darkside considers killing his nephew who's safety his sister and best friend entrusted him with? That might've flown if they'd released literally any material to indicate such a drastic shift in mindset, as it is it's just jarring.

5. Throwing in useless animal sidekicks that are only there to make you laugh but fail at doing even that. At least the ewok's had a purpose.

6. Wasting the first half of the movie on watching Luke spearfish and aliens play the slots and then having a hundred major events occur one after in the latter half giving the audience little to no time to process what was happening and what these events meant for the story. In other words, god awful pacing.

7. Holdo being made to act like a vindictive/idiotic commander simply to allow for the Canto Bight plot line which ultimately ended up being utterly irrelevant to the plot.

8. Rose forcing Finn to kiss her and keeping him from sacrificing himself at the end of the movie because "he shouldn't fight out of hate" but rather "sacrifice for love" despite Holdo doing EXACTLY what Finn attempted to do 10 minutes earlier. Not only do her feelings for Finn come out of left field but she actively contradicts her former position and would have potentially caused the deaths of thousands simply because what Finn was going to do personally offended her/went against her morales.

9. Legitimately copied dialogue from ESB and RotJ line for line replacing the names of certain characters.

1. While some of the humour was overdone (Luke tossing away his lightsaber) it hardly ruined the movie. I found the lighter interactions refreshing, and fitting to the characters the Sequel trilogy as created. The line you pointed out seemed exactly like something I would say, something that many people I know would say. I think its just a more modern writing style that might just not be your cup of tea. Most movies are trending in this direction except for those designed to be explicitly serious.

2. Inconsistencies is not the words I would use. New or innovative is my preference. Whose to say force ghosts cannot manipulate the force? We may not have seen it yet, but it is never explicitly stated that they can't do it as far as I am aware. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," may have been more literal than we thought. Who knows. If you do not like it, then I am sorry, but its again something new rather than an error in my opinion.

Ditto to the Holdo Maneuver. Holdo was a decent character and her sacrifice fit that character. The actual science behind it should really not be picked apart (we are talking about a movie series with space wizards and worms that live in asteroids) and even if we are going to do so, its not like it "blows up Star Wars," as I have heard so many people cry. Its a risky action that is incredibly hard to pull off that no one had tried before. Enjoy the spectacle.

3. Here I agree with you slightly. Hux has not bee not been a good character believe. While I can totally imagine him being real, a bumbling officer with too much ambition and not enough intelligence, he should have been a minor character at best.

Kylo is a harder case. He is a character we see change alot through the two movies we have to go on. In TFA, he is a little brat who is mad at his dad and mentor, and has yet to meet something he cannot solve with his lightsaber. In TLJ he is morally split over how far he has gone to prove himself to both himself and to Snoke. He is angry that he is not strong enough to kill his family wantonly, and really only regains confidence when he realizes Snoke too was playing with him. I do not think you give Kylo enough credit, the scene with Snoke dressing him down was really just there to show how much damage his killing of Han and his subsequent defeat of Rey did to his psyche.

4. And I have to push back hard here. Luke was the best thing about this movie. Luke was always the naive idealist, the one who saw the good in everyone, and seeing that turn into the grouch he became on Anch-To because of his own failures and the failures the Jedi represent was amazing. It shows not all heroes succeed, not everyone can live up to their own ideals, even the most fervent and beloved ones.

It also reinforced the subplot of the prequels, the idea that the Jedi had become bloated and arrogant, too comfortable with power and too familiar conflict. I think this is really key to understanding TLJ. Luke specifically mentions that the Jedi at the height of their power were basically accomplices in their own destruction by Palpatine. But by this time, Luke realizes that the Jedi, when idolized and held up as heroes, are only doomed to repeat the issues encountered in the Prequels.

About killing Kylo, again, I disagree. Luke was an incredibly powerful Jedi, and it has been noted he had alot of light, and dark, within him, as his father did. Not to mention, the idea that history is repeating itself, that the thing that Luke has fought for his whole life could fall, and its because of Luke's failure, is pretty compelling. Even the most disciplined people have instincts, and that includes Jedi.

5. Some people like porgs. Some people do not. If thats something that ruined a movie for you you need to chill.

6. The pacing seemed decent, if a bit fast to me. The climax of the film for me was the confrontation on the Supremacy and the death of Snoke, followed by the Holdo Maneuver. What happened after that was all well and good, but it was the denouement, leading us to an end we knew was coming. I really think that sure it may have been fast, it was not enough to derail the plot. I mean, most people can follow a linear progression of events, it was not that complex a storyline.

7. Think about Holdo's position for a minute. You have a man who is clearly insubordinate, who is clearly way too willing to resort to violence, who lacks subtlety and who has a big mouth. Are you really going to either keep him on the command crew, or tell him your plan? Especially after what he pulled over D'Qar?

8. The Rose/Finn kiss is bad, I agree. I also think her saving Finn was bad. Either he should have died, or she should have.

9. TFA had way more issues with copying former movies. It was essentially ANH. Which is why I prefer TLJ over it, it was not original enough.

[Jedi Council]

To be honest, I've just chosen to enjoy the new movies. It's pointless to get bitter about the missteps or whatever, because we're not going to get another episode 7 or 8, it is what it is.

But the thing is, that's not limited to the Sequels. There are many things I dislike far more in the Prequels (midichlorians? Killing off Jango early? Wasting a Sith Lord Chistopher Lee? THAT ACTING?) and there are some things I think could have been better in the OT even (bloody Ewoks wrecking the 501st?). But, again, it's pointless to get your panties in a twist over it. We're not going to get rewrites or reshoots. We get what we get, so we might as well focus on the things we enjoy about these movies rather than what could have been.

This. So much this. I say this about basically any movie adaption or sequel.

[New haven america]

What makes her a feminist robot? Her voice is female and she cares about something?

I did kind of get a rad fem feel from her, but only in how she voices her concerns. Otherwise she’s complaining about a fictional problem, and droids do have it pretty bad in Star Wars.

I did kind of get a rad fem feel from her, but only in how she voices her concerns. Otherwise she’s complaining about a fictional problem, and droids do have it pretty bad in Star Wars.

Otherwise she's complaining

There you go.

She's loud, abrasive, complaines about every-fucking-thing and assumes every man is sexually attracted to her and also bloviates about oppression and how her true calling is to liberate robots who didn't ask to be liberated.

Feminist robot.

Droids kinda do need to be liberated.

[Northern Davincia]

2. Inconsistencies is not the words I would use. New or innovative is my preference. Whose to say force ghosts cannot manipulate the force? We may not have seen it yet, but it is never explicitly stated that they can't do it as far as I am aware. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," may have been more literal than we thought. Who knows. If you do not like it, then I am sorry, but its again something new rather than an error in my opinion.

Ditto to the Holdo Maneuver. Holdo was a decent character and her sacrifice fit that character. The actual science behind it should really not be picked apart (we are talking about a movie series with space wizards and worms that live in asteroids) and even if we are going to do so, its not like it "blows up Star Wars," as I have heard so many people cry. Its a risky action that is incredibly hard to pull off that no one had tried before. Enjoy the spectacle.

If force ghosts can wield lightning, they should have done so sooner. Obi Wan could have participated in the Battle of Hoth, or Yoda at Endor.

The science of Holdo's tactic is less scrutinized than the fact it has no precedent. It's not difficult to pull off at all; it only takes one pilot, and could be done, hypothetically, by a droid.
May as well create lightspeed missiles.

[Jedi Council]

2. Inconsistencies is not the words I would use. New or innovative is my preference. Whose to say force ghosts cannot manipulate the force? We may not have seen it yet, but it is never explicitly stated that they can't do it as far as I am aware. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," may have been more literal than we thought. Who knows. If you do not like it, then I am sorry, but its again something new rather than an error in my opinion.

Ditto to the Holdo Maneuver. Holdo was a decent character and her sacrifice fit that character. The actual science behind it should really not be picked apart (we are talking about a movie series with space wizards and worms that live in asteroids) and even if we are going to do so, its not like it "blows up Star Wars," as I have heard so many people cry. Its a risky action that is incredibly hard to pull off that no one had tried before. Enjoy the spectacle.

If force ghosts can wield lightning, they should have done so sooner. Obi Wan could have participated in the Battle of Hoth, or Yoda at Endor.

The science of Holdo's tactic is less scrutinized than the fact it has no precedent. It's not difficult to pull off at all; it only takes one pilot, and could be done, hypothetically, by a droid.
May as well create lightspeed missiles.

1.) Well first off that would be a shitty movie. Secondly, thats no the point of the Jedi. Both Yoda and Obi Wan realized that the Force was not meant as a weapon of mass destruction. The Jedi had become too close to conflict, as shown in the prequels.

2.) Thats no how hyperspace works. Hyperspace is a different dimension of space where one travels faster than light. Therefore, in order to execute the Holdo Manuever, the object trying to enter hyperspace must hit the target at the right moment, before it actually enters hyperspace.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I really don’t get the fandom backlash to the hyperspace ram. It was a return to the jaw dropping rule of cool that used to define the franchise, and people are upset because it might (and it really doesn’t) violate the lore? Come on.

If VI came out today, people would be complaining about the Emperor using force lightning out of nowhere, or the A-Wing crashing into the SSD bridge. “But why didn’t it happen before?”

[Northern Davincia]

If force ghosts can wield lightning, they should have done so sooner. Obi Wan could have participated in the Battle of Hoth, or Yoda at Endor.

The science of Holdo's tactic is less scrutinized than the fact it has no precedent. It's not difficult to pull off at all; it only takes one pilot, and could be done, hypothetically, by a droid.
May as well create lightspeed missiles.

1.) Well first off that would be a shitty movie. Secondly, thats no the point of the Jedi. Both Yoda and Obi Wan realized that the Force was not meant as a weapon of mass destruction. The Jedi had become too close to conflict, as shown in the prequels.

2.) Thats no how hyperspace works. Hyperspace is a different dimension of space where one travels faster than light. Therefore, in order to execute the Holdo Manuever, the object trying to enter hyperspace must hit the target at the right moment, before it actually enters hyperspace.

1. That would have been fine if force ghosts had remained messengers only. Yoda still caused destruction with his newfound lightning power, for no real reason considering Rey took the Jedi texts.
2. Again, the maneuver could be accomplished with a droid. Han already pointed out that you can hit objects travelling in hyperspace back in ANH.

[Bearon Uncensored]

1. Dialogue with actual substance substituted for oneliners in an attempt to get cheap laughs from the audience.

Seriously, there's a way to be funny without sacrificing substance. Take Luke and Han's conversation about the Falcon:

Luke: What a piece of junk!

Han: She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts, kid.

The exchange is funny but it doesn't feel forced because you can easily imagine a real life scenario like the one the scene portrays where someone is hassling a guy about their old junker and the guy gets defensive about it because they've had it for a lot of years and put a lot of work into. Compare that to Rey's deadpan delivery of lines like:

"I've seen your schedule. You're not busy."

It's not natural. It's a comment made solely to evoke laughter from the audience and it stands out in comparison to the OT's more natural dialogue as a result.

2. Inconsistencies created simply to give the audience fanservice ( Yoda summoning lightning/SJW general destroying a fleet with a hyperdrive jump ).

3. The villains of the story completely neutered as valid threats or characters we can take seriously ( Snoke dressing down Kylo and Hux having "yo mama" jokes told to him and being thrown around by Kylo and Snoke ).

Compare Tarkin in ANH with Hux in TLJ. Tarkin is established as competent and in command with his first scene ending in the destruction of a planet and him being shown to possess authority over even the likes of Vader whereas Hux can't even deal with a single rebel fighter with a fleet of Star Destroyer's at his back.

4. Carrying out character assassination on one of the most beloved characters in the franchise.

The same guy who offered mercy to genocidal maniacs steeped in the Darkside considers killing his nephew who's safety his sister and best friend entrusted him with? That might've flown if they'd released literally any material to indicate such a drastic shift in mindset, as it is it's just jarring.

5. Throwing in useless animal sidekicks that are only there to make you laugh but fail at doing even that. At least the ewok's had a purpose.

6. Wasting the first half of the movie on watching Luke spearfish and aliens play the slots and then having a hundred major events occur one after in the latter half giving the audience little to no time to process what was happening and what these events meant for the story. In other words, god awful pacing.

7. Holdo being made to act like a vindictive/idiotic commander simply to allow for the Canto Bight plot line which ultimately ended up being utterly irrelevant to the plot.

8. Rose forcing Finn to kiss her and keeping him from sacrificing himself at the end of the movie because "he shouldn't fight out of hate" but rather "sacrifice for love" despite Holdo doing EXACTLY what Finn attempted to do 10 minutes earlier. Not only do her feelings for Finn come out of left field but she actively contradicts her former position and would have potentially caused the deaths of thousands simply because what Finn was going to do personally offended her/went against her morales.

9. Legitimately copied dialogue from ESB and RotJ line for line replacing the names of certain characters.

1. While some of the humour was overdone (Luke tossing away his lightsaber) it hardly ruined the movie. I found the lighter interactions refreshing, and fitting to the characters the Sequel trilogy as created. The line you pointed out seemed exactly like something I would say, something that many people I know would say. I think its just a more modern writing style that might just not be your cup of tea. Most movies are trending in this direction except for those designed to be explicitly serious.

2. Inconsistencies is not the words I would use. New or innovative is my preference. Whose to say force ghosts cannot manipulate the force? We may not have seen it yet, but it is never explicitly stated that they can't do it as far as I am aware. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," may have been more literal than we thought. Who knows. If you do not like it, then I am sorry, but its again something new rather than an error in my opinion.

Ditto to the Holdo Maneuver. Holdo was a decent character and her sacrifice fit that character. The actual science behind it should really not be picked apart (we are talking about a movie series with space wizards and worms that live in asteroids) and even if we are going to do so, its not like it "blows up Star Wars," as I have heard so many people cry. Its a risky action that is incredibly hard to pull off that no one had tried before. Enjoy the spectacle.

3. Here I agree with you slightly. Hux has not bee not been a good character believe. While I can totally imagine him being real, a bumbling officer with too much ambition and not enough intelligence, he should have been a minor character at best.

Kylo is a harder case. He is a character we see change alot through the two movies we have to go on. In TFA, he is a little brat who is mad at his dad and mentor, and has yet to meet something he cannot solve with his lightsaber. In TLJ he is morally split over how far he has gone to prove himself to both himself and to Snoke. He is angry that he is not strong enough to kill his family wantonly, and really only regains confidence when he realizes Snoke too was playing with him. I do not think you give Kylo enough credit, the scene with Snoke dressing him down was really just there to show how much damage his killing of Han and his subsequent defeat of Rey did to his psyche.

4. And I have to push back hard here. Luke was the best thing about this movie. Luke was always the naive idealist, the one who saw the good in everyone, and seeing that turn into the grouch he became on Anch-To because of his own failures and the failures the Jedi represent was amazing. It shows not all heroes succeed, not everyone can live up to their own ideals, even the most fervent and beloved ones.

It also reinforced the subplot of the prequels, the idea that the Jedi had become bloated and arrogant, too comfortable with power and too familiar conflict. I think this is really key to understanding TLJ. Luke specifically mentions that the Jedi at the height of their power were basically accomplices in their own destruction by Palpatine. But by this time, Luke realizes that the Jedi, when idolized and held up as heroes, are only doomed to repeat the issues encountered in the Prequels.

About killing Kylo, again, I disagree. Luke was an incredibly powerful Jedi, and it has been noted he had alot of light, and dark, within him, as his father did. Not to mention, the idea that history is repeating itself, that the thing that Luke has fought for his whole life could fall, and its because of Luke's failure, is pretty compelling. Even the most disciplined people have instincts, and that includes Jedi.

5. Some people like porgs. Some people do not. If thats something that ruined a movie for you you need to chill.

6. The pacing seemed decent, if a bit fast to me. The climax of the film for me was the confrontation on the Supremacy and the death of Snoke, followed by the Holdo Maneuver. What happened after that was all well and good, but it was the denouement, leading us to an end we knew was coming. I really think that sure it may have been fast, it was not enough to derail the plot. I mean, most people can follow a linear progression of events, it was not that complex a storyline.

7. Think about Holdo's position for a minute. You have a man who is clearly insubordinate, who is clearly way too willing to resort to violence, who lacks subtlety and who has a big mouth. Are you really going to either keep him on the command crew, or tell him your plan? Especially after what he pulled over D'Qar?

8. The Rose/Finn kiss is bad, I agree. I also think her saving Finn was bad. Either he should have died, or she should have.

9. TFA had way more issues with copying former movies. It was essentially ANH. Which is why I prefer TLJ over it, it was not original enough.

1. Oh, I think they're definitely fitting for the characters the Sequel Trilogy has created. Unfortunately, I don't think those characters are in any way good. And yes, I've noticed this trend, It was done in Spiderman Homecoming as well. Studios like to make characters from a completely different universe and with completely different backgrounds relatable. That's why you get Rey, a scavenger who had nearly no social interaction for most of her life cracking jokes that align with your modern day millennial's type of humor.

2. Innovative might be the word YOU'D use but it's definitely not the correct one. Lightside Force ghosts being able to manipulate the force is an inconsistency because that would mean Yoda and Ben were not unable to aid Luke but actively chose not to. Same thing goes for the hyperdrive kamikaze crap. Am I supposed to buy that no one in the entire galaxy had ever thought to use the technology in the way Holdo did? It's ridiculous.

3. I'm glad we've found some common ground where Hux is concerned. As for Kylo, I understand what that scenes for, but there were ways they could have shown Kylo's conflict without making him out to be impotent imo.

4. The problem is, we don't see what lead to those failures so there's nothing for us to connect to or emphasize with.

That was one aspect of the film I actually enjoyed, again though, the problem with that is that it directly goes against the idea that Obi Wan and Yoda LEARNED from those failures and that Luke being a product of those teachings was meant to redeem the Jedi. I.E. the entire point of the original trilogy. If Luke's failure had been built up to or even hinted at it'd more understandable, but it's simply not.

Instincts are one thing. Actively going into somebody's tent and then hovering over them for a decent period of time indicates that this wasn't some random urge.

5. It didn't "ruin the movie" for me. It just felt pointless. Again, the entire post is a copy/paste of a comment that was made pretty much immediately after I saw the movie. They aren't necessarily the issues with the movie that I currently find to be the most relevant.

6. Oh trust me, I'd never complain that the story was complex. That it is not. The problem was the audience didn't have any time to process the major events like Snoke's death before launching into the next scene where in contrast they spent around half an hour depicting aliens gambling at a casino.

7. He risked his own life to create an opening and Leia ended supported his attack. It's not as if he commandeered Resistance forces for his efforts. And what do you mean "clearly willing to resort to violence?" He's a rebel soldier. That's his job. Doesn't mean he's anymore likely to use violence against his superiors to resolve a disagreement then the average member of an armed force is. Where did you get the idea that Poe has "a big mouth" from? It'd be a bigger risk not to tell him. Leia clearly trusts him and Poe outright admitted to not having a plan and being WORRIED about that to Holdo. Her sharing the plan would have reassured him.

8. Glad we agree here.

9. Oh, I agree TFA was a bigger copy cat overall. But TLJ actually copied certain scenes down to the wording of the sentence. It was ridiculous.

[The first Galactic Republic]

1.) Well first off that would be a shitty movie. Secondly, thats no the point of the Jedi. Both Yoda and Obi Wan realized that the Force was not meant as a weapon of mass destruction. The Jedi had become too close to conflict, as shown in the prequels.

2.) Thats no how hyperspace works. Hyperspace is a different dimension of space where one travels faster than light. Therefore, in order to execute the Holdo Manuever, the object trying to enter hyperspace must hit the target at the right moment, before it actually enters hyperspace.

1. That would have been fine if force ghosts had remained messengers only. Yoda still caused destruction with his newfound lightning power, for no real reason considering Rey took the Jedi texts.
2. Again, the maneuver could be accomplished with a droid. Han already pointed out that you can hit objects travelling in hyperspace back in ANH.

Did they have a droid?

[Northern Davincia]

1. That would have been fine if force ghosts had remained messengers only. Yoda still caused destruction with his newfound lightning power, for no real reason considering Rey took the Jedi texts.
2. Again, the maneuver could be accomplished with a droid. Han already pointed out that you can hit objects travelling in hyperspace back in ANH.

Did they have a droid?

Why wouldn't they have a droid? In all other Star Wars media, droids are extremely common on larger ships.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Did they have a droid?

Why wouldn't they have a droid? In all other Star Wars media, droids are extremely common on larger ships.

But if ship piloting droids were so common, why have human pilots at all? Even the CIS mostly had ships crewed by droids, rather than ships that were themselves droids. The lack of automation in Star Wars is always something that bugged me honestly but, nevertheless, the need for human pilots is well established.

I doubt they had a capital ship capable pilot droid, and remember that Holdo made a very spur of the moment decision anyways.

[Jedi Council]

1. While some of the humour was overdone (Luke tossing away his lightsaber) it hardly ruined the movie. I found the lighter interactions refreshing, and fitting to the characters the Sequel trilogy as created. The line you pointed out seemed exactly like something I would say, something that many people I know would say. I think its just a more modern writing style that might just not be your cup of tea. Most movies are trending in this direction except for those designed to be explicitly serious.

2. Inconsistencies is not the words I would use. New or innovative is my preference. Whose to say force ghosts cannot manipulate the force? We may not have seen it yet, but it is never explicitly stated that they can't do it as far as I am aware. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine," may have been more literal than we thought. Who knows. If you do not like it, then I am sorry, but its again something new rather than an error in my opinion.

Ditto to the Holdo Maneuver. Holdo was a decent character and her sacrifice fit that character. The actual science behind it should really not be picked apart (we are talking about a movie series with space wizards and worms that live in asteroids) and even if we are going to do so, its not like it "blows up Star Wars," as I have heard so many people cry. Its a risky action that is incredibly hard to pull off that no one had tried before. Enjoy the spectacle.

3. Here I agree with you slightly. Hux has not bee not been a good character believe. While I can totally imagine him being real, a bumbling officer with too much ambition and not enough intelligence, he should have been a minor character at best.

Kylo is a harder case. He is a character we see change alot through the two movies we have to go on. In TFA, he is a little brat who is mad at his dad and mentor, and has yet to meet something he cannot solve with his lightsaber. In TLJ he is morally split over how far he has gone to prove himself to both himself and to Snoke. He is angry that he is not strong enough to kill his family wantonly, and really only regains confidence when he realizes Snoke too was playing with him. I do not think you give Kylo enough credit, the scene with Snoke dressing him down was really just there to show how much damage his killing of Han and his subsequent defeat of Rey did to his psyche.

4. And I have to push back hard here. Luke was the best thing about this movie. Luke was always the naive idealist, the one who saw the good in everyone, and seeing that turn into the grouch he became on Anch-To because of his own failures and the failures the Jedi represent was amazing. It shows not all heroes succeed, not everyone can live up to their own ideals, even the most fervent and beloved ones.

It also reinforced the subplot of the prequels, the idea that the Jedi had become bloated and arrogant, too comfortable with power and too familiar conflict. I think this is really key to understanding TLJ. Luke specifically mentions that the Jedi at the height of their power were basically accomplices in their own destruction by Palpatine. But by this time, Luke realizes that the Jedi, when idolized and held up as heroes, are only doomed to repeat the issues encountered in the Prequels.

About killing Kylo, again, I disagree. Luke was an incredibly powerful Jedi, and it has been noted he had alot of light, and dark, within him, as his father did. Not to mention, the idea that history is repeating itself, that the thing that Luke has fought for his whole life could fall, and its because of Luke's failure, is pretty compelling. Even the most disciplined people have instincts, and that includes Jedi.

5. Some people like porgs. Some people do not. If thats something that ruined a movie for you you need to chill.

6. The pacing seemed decent, if a bit fast to me. The climax of the film for me was the confrontation on the Supremacy and the death of Snoke, followed by the Holdo Maneuver. What happened after that was all well and good, but it was the denouement, leading us to an end we knew was coming. I really think that sure it may have been fast, it was not enough to derail the plot. I mean, most people can follow a linear progression of events, it was not that complex a storyline.

7. Think about Holdo's position for a minute. You have a man who is clearly insubordinate, who is clearly way too willing to resort to violence, who lacks subtlety and who has a big mouth. Are you really going to either keep him on the command crew, or tell him your plan? Especially after what he pulled over D'Qar?

8. The Rose/Finn kiss is bad, I agree. I also think her saving Finn was bad. Either he should have died, or she should have.

9. TFA had way more issues with copying former movies. It was essentially ANH. Which is why I prefer TLJ over it, it was not original enough.

1. Oh, I think they're definitely fitting for the characters the Sequel Trilogy has created. Unfortunately, I don't think those characters are in any way good. And yes, I've noticed this trend, It was done in Spiderman Homecoming as well. Studios like to make characters from a completely different universe and with completely different backgrounds relatable. That's why you get Rey, a scavenger who had nearly no social interaction for most of her life cracking jokes that align with your modern day millennial's type of humor.

2. Innovative might be the word YOU'D use but it's definitely not the correct one. Lightside Force ghosts being able to manipulate the force is an inconsistency because that would mean Yoda and Ben were not unable to aid Luke but actively chose not to. Same thing goes for the hyperdrive kamikaze crap. Am I supposed to buy that no one in the entire galaxy had ever thought to use the technology in the way Holdo did? It's ridiculous.

3. I'm glad we've found some common ground where Hux is concerned. As for Kylo, I understand what that scenes for, but there were ways they could have shown Kylo's conflict without making him out to be impotent imo.

4. The problem is, we don't see what lead to those failures so there's nothing for us to connect to or emphasize with.

That was one aspect of the film I actually enjoyed, again though, the problem with that is that it directly goes against the idea that Obi Wan and Yoda LEARNED from those failures and that Luke being a product of those teachings was meant to redeem the Jedi. I.E. the entire point of the original trilogy. If Luke's failure had been built up to or even hinted at it'd more understandable, but it's simply not.

Instincts are one thing. Actively going into somebody's tent and then hovering over them for a decent period of time indicates that this wasn't some random urge.

5. It didn't "ruin the movie" for me. It just felt pointless. Again, the entire post is a copy/paste of a comment that was made pretty much immediately after I saw the movie. They aren't necessarily the issues with the movie that I currently find to be the most relevant.

6. Oh trust me, I'd never complain that the story was complex. That it is not. The problem was the audience didn't have any time to process the major events like Snoke's death before launching into the next scene where in contrast they spent around half an hour depicting aliens gambling at a casino.

7. He risked his own life to create an opening and Leia ended supported his attack. It's not as if he commandeered Resistance forces for his efforts. And what do you mean "clearly willing to resort to violence?" He's a rebel soldier. That's his job. Doesn't mean he's anymore likely to use violence against his superiors to resolve a disagreement then the average member of an armed force is. Where did you get the idea that Poe has "a big mouth" from? It'd be a bigger risk not to tell him. Leia clearly trusts him and Poe outright admitted to not having a plan and being WORRIED about that to Holdo. Her sharing the plan would have reassured him.

8. Glad we agree here.

9. Oh, I agree TFA was a bigger copy cat overall. But TLJ actually copied certain scenes down to the wording of the sentence. It was ridiculous.

1.) Well then I guess we just disagree in what we like for movies. I enjoyed most of the humour.

And if you have characters that are not relatable, then your movie will be crap. Making Rey funny would hardly be a sin.

2.) See my previous post about the issues with Force Ghosts.
And the thing people who really complain about the Holdo Maneuver do not seem to understand is that there is more to Star Wars than the movies. Just because it was not seen in the movies does not mean it does not or cannot exist. Maybe someone has done it before, maybe we just have not seen that in the movies.

3.) I did not find Snoke's dressing down of Kylo make him seem impotent, I saw it as an accurate representation of what Kylo was in TFA, that being a brat with a bunch to learn who was not used to failing and thought a mask and a red lightsaber made him the new Vader. But thats a difference of opinion rather than fact so.

4.) Luke was meant to redeem the Jedi, but his failures are linked to TLJ's overriding theme that your destiny is not set. Luke was meant and trained to redeem the Jedi. He failed. Failure is a part of life. Maybe it was because Luke was trained so swiftly, maybe it was because of Snoke, we do not know yet. Hopefully we will find out more about the Knights of Ren and Kylo's betrayal, but until then its less clear.

The way I saw it was that Luke went to the hut to sense Kylo, and see how far Snoke's corruption went. He saw it was deep and running wild and would be the end of everything he had worked for. Can we blame him for doing what he did? Again, everyone makes mistakes.

5.) I enjoyed the Porgs, though I admit, they may not be for everyone.

6.) Hmmm I did not feel that way. I guess we had different experiences.

7.) Poe disobeyed direct orders to call off the attack, he caused the loss of the Resistance's entire bomber fleet, and Leia did not end up supporting it, she demoted him and slapped him for it. He was a hot shot who needed a time out. He is not just a soldier though, he is supposed to be an officer. Officer's are not supposed to be concerned with just killing, they need to see the big picture. That was why Leia was so upset, because Poe is supposed to be her protege; I can imagine that Leia wanted Poe to succeed her in leading the Resistance and his actions over D'Qar were that of a hot shot not a calm and collected leader.

8.) Quite. It was the weakest moment in the movie for me.

9.) I did not catch them I suppose.

[Salus Maior]

1.. Because he was goaded into it. There's a difference between flying off the handle when you're enraged and coldly calculating the murder of an innocent. He was intent on committing the act otherwise he wouldn't have stepped into Ben's tent.

2.. They're pointless and are only there to sell toys, again though, it's not my main issue with the movie. Just one of the issues that I listed off the top of my head in a video from a few years ago. Something you'd know if you'd actually read the entire conversation before jumping into it. The ewoks honestly do very few things I find to be "ridiculous" for a primitive culture outside of looking cute and cuddly. And I hope the bit where you were attempting to sound skeptical about whether or not the ewok's had a purpose was some sort of sarcastic humor considering their involvement was what lead to the downfall of the Empire.

1. Because Vader threatened Leia. Likewise, when Luke was checking in on Ben, he saw that he threatened EVERYTHING he built in the new Jedi Order, and the Republic, and those he cared about. Yeah, you've made this argument before and it's silly. Luke was in Ben's room to get a sense of how much darkness was in him, this is said in the movie and I have no reason to doubt it because Luke isn't that evil. Flawed like everyone else? Yes. But evil? No. This cold calculation you're talking about exists only in your imagination, because the movie doesn't support it.

Him simply being in the tent isn't a character assassination, and him skirting close to the Dark Side and overcoming it has precedent.

2. Selling toys is kind of SW's side business. Why do you think that the Clone legions have all these different colors and classes when Stormtroopers only ever had a few? To sell figures.

As things to sell toys go, the penguins are really not a big issue. You're getting upset over nothing.

[Bearon Uncensored]

1. Oh, I think they're definitely fitting for the characters the Sequel Trilogy has created. Unfortunately, I don't think those characters are in any way good. And yes, I've noticed this trend, It was done in Spiderman Homecoming as well. Studios like to make characters from a completely different universe and with completely different backgrounds relatable. That's why you get Rey, a scavenger who had nearly no social interaction for most of her life cracking jokes that align with your modern day millennial's type of humor.

2. Innovative might be the word YOU'D use but it's definitely not the correct one. Lightside Force ghosts being able to manipulate the force is an inconsistency because that would mean Yoda and Ben were not unable to aid Luke but actively chose not to. Same thing goes for the hyperdrive kamikaze crap. Am I supposed to buy that no one in the entire galaxy had ever thought to use the technology in the way Holdo did? It's ridiculous.

3. I'm glad we've found some common ground where Hux is concerned. As for Kylo, I understand what that scenes for, but there were ways they could have shown Kylo's conflict without making him out to be impotent imo.

4. The problem is, we don't see what lead to those failures so there's nothing for us to connect to or emphasize with.

That was one aspect of the film I actually enjoyed, again though, the problem with that is that it directly goes against the idea that Obi Wan and Yoda LEARNED from those failures and that Luke being a product of those teachings was meant to redeem the Jedi. I.E. the entire point of the original trilogy. If Luke's failure had been built up to or even hinted at it'd more understandable, but it's simply not.

Instincts are one thing. Actively going into somebody's tent and then hovering over them for a decent period of time indicates that this wasn't some random urge.

5. It didn't "ruin the movie" for me. It just felt pointless. Again, the entire post is a copy/paste of a comment that was made pretty much immediately after I saw the movie. They aren't necessarily the issues with the movie that I currently find to be the most relevant.

6. Oh trust me, I'd never complain that the story was complex. That it is not. The problem was the audience didn't have any time to process the major events like Snoke's death before launching into the next scene where in contrast they spent around half an hour depicting aliens gambling at a casino.

7. He risked his own life to create an opening and Leia ended supported his attack. It's not as if he commandeered Resistance forces for his efforts. And what do you mean "clearly willing to resort to violence?" He's a rebel soldier. That's his job. Doesn't mean he's anymore likely to use violence against his superiors to resolve a disagreement then the average member of an armed force is. Where did you get the idea that Poe has "a big mouth" from? It'd be a bigger risk not to tell him. Leia clearly trusts him and Poe outright admitted to not having a plan and being WORRIED about that to Holdo. Her sharing the plan would have reassured him.

8. Glad we agree here.

9. Oh, I agree TFA was a bigger copy cat overall. But TLJ actually copied certain scenes down to the wording of the sentence. It was ridiculous.

1.) Well then I guess we just disagree in what we like for movies. I enjoyed most of the humour.

And if you have characters that are not relatable, then your movie will be crap. Making Rey funny would hardly be a sin.

2.) See my previous post about the issues with Force Ghosts.
And the thing people who really complain about the Holdo Maneuver do not seem to understand is that there is more to Star Wars than the movies. Just because it was not seen in the movies does not mean it does not or cannot exist. Maybe someone has done it before, maybe we just have not seen that in the movies.

3.) I did not find Snoke's dressing down of Kylo make him seem impotent, I saw it as an accurate representation of what Kylo was in TFA, that being a brat with a bunch to learn who was not used to failing and thought a mask and a red lightsaber made him the new Vader. But thats a difference of opinion rather than fact so.

4.) Luke was meant to redeem the Jedi, but his failures are linked to TLJ's overriding theme that your destiny is not set. Luke was meant and trained to redeem the Jedi. He failed. Failure is a part of life. Maybe it was because Luke was trained so swiftly, maybe it was because of Snoke, we do not know yet. Hopefully we will find out more about the Knights of Ren and Kylo's betrayal, but until then its less clear.

The way I saw it was that Luke went to the hut to sense Kylo, and see how far Snoke's corruption went. He saw it was deep and running wild and would be the end of everything he had worked for. Can we blame him for doing what he did? Again, everyone makes mistakes.

5.) I enjoyed the Porgs, though I admit, they may not be for everyone.

6.) Hmmm I did not feel that way. I guess we had different experiences.

7.) Poe disobeyed direct orders to call off the attack, he caused the loss of the Resistance's entire bomber fleet, and Leia did not end up supporting it, she demoted him and slapped him for it. He was a hot shot who needed a time out. He is not just a soldier though, he is supposed to be an officer. Officer's are not supposed to be concerned with just killing, they need to see the big picture. That was why Leia was so upset, because Poe is supposed to be her protege; I can imagine that Leia wanted Poe to succeed her in leading the Resistance and his actions over D'Qar were that of a hot shot not a calm and collected leader.

8.) Quite. It was the weakest moment in the movie for me.

9.) I did not catch them I suppose.

1. That's fair I suppose, but I think if we look at it objectively, it doesn't really make sense for Rey to have that kind of humor when she's essentially lived most of her life in isolation.

2. If that was the case then why wouldn't defenses have been developed against it? And if they couldn't be, why would people pour that many resources into equipment that's vulnerable to pretty much anything with a hyperdrive engine? It wouldn't be smart and doesn't make sense as a result. As far as I can tell, you don't seem to address the Force ghost issue. If you could reiterate it in your response I'd appreciate it.

3. But that's exactly my point, he's shown to be a child at this stage. I get that that was intentional and I think it goes well with the character that was established in TFA, but since they do a similar thing to Hux, Phasma's a glorified stormtrooper in silver armor and Snoke's not really in the movie till the scene where he dies, there's no one to really create tension. Certainly the situation the Resistance fleet is in is tense but there's no arch-villain to truly drive home the direness of the scene. It takes away from the film a bit imo.

4. Sure it goes with the theme of the movie, but not the themes of the OT or Luke's character as it had been established up to that point. And that's my main problem, we don't know the details about ANYTHING surrounding this trilogy and it's incredibly frustrating as a result.

He can sense it from outside the tent. And certainly we can blame him.

5. I mean, as long as you're aware they only exist to sell merchandise ( porg plushies ) for the Christmas rush.

6. I suppose we did.

7. No. LEIA caused the loss of the resistance's 3 bombers by sending them to take advantage of the opening Poe had made. What Leia did after that point is ultimately irrelevant. She made the choice to send them out. She's the one who was ultimately responsible for what happened.

And honestly? Taking out a fleet killing superweapon is more relevant then saving 3 slow moving bombers that have to be directly over their target to hit it. I say Poe made the right choice there.

9. It was the Snoke scene and the scenes leading up to it mostly. I can rewatch them and quote them for you if you'd like.

[Bearon Uncensored]

1.. Because he was goaded into it. There's a difference between flying off the handle when you're enraged and coldly calculating the murder of an innocent. He was intent on committing the act otherwise he wouldn't have stepped into Ben's tent.

2.. They're pointless and are only there to sell toys, again though, it's not my main issue with the movie. Just one of the issues that I listed off the top of my head in a video from a few years ago. Something you'd know if you'd actually read the entire conversation before jumping into it. The ewoks honestly do very few things I find to be "ridiculous" for a primitive culture outside of looking cute and cuddly. And I hope the bit where you were attempting to sound skeptical about whether or not the ewok's had a purpose was some sort of sarcastic humor considering their involvement was what lead to the downfall of the Empire.

1. Because Vader threatened Leia. Likewise, when Luke was checking in on Ben, he saw that he threatened EVERYTHING he built in the new Jedi Order, and the Republic, and those he cared about. Yeah, you've made this argument before and it's silly. Luke was in Ben's room to get a sense of how much darkness was in him, this is said in the movie and I have no reason to doubt it because Luke isn't that evil. Flawed like everyone else? Yes. But evil? No. This cold calculation you're talking about exists only in your imagination, because the movie doesn't support it.

Him simply being in the tent isn't a character assassination, and him skirting close to the Dark Side and overcoming it has precedent.

2. Selling toys is kind of SW's side business. Why do you think that the Clone legions have all these different colors and classes when Stormtroopers only ever had a few? To sell figures.

As things to sell toys go, the penguins are really not a big issue. You're getting upset over nothing.

1. The difference between the two is that one is an individual making a threat to what he sees as the only family he has left to him while the other is worrying about somebody POSSIBLY doing something. Do I really have to explain to you why those two situations would be different?

It's not said in the movie. It's said by Luke. A guy who had already lied to Rey prior to that point and, according to Kylo, attempted to kill him in his sleep. And you don't need to go into somebody's tent and hover directly over them to sense their turmoil so your theory holds less water then my bladder after I take a piss.

Only if you rip one eye out with a poker and then squint the other. But that's what most of the people in this thread do so it doesn't really come as a surprise that you feel this way.

2. Nice ignoring the entire main point of my statement.

[The first Galactic Republic]

The true Star Wars fan’s guide to film analysis.

[Bearon Uncensored]

The true Star Wars fan’s guide to film analysis.

That guy knows his stuff.

[Jedi Council]

1.) Well then I guess we just disagree in what we like for movies. I enjoyed most of the humour.

And if you have characters that are not relatable, then your movie will be crap. Making Rey funny would hardly be a sin.

2.) See my previous post about the issues with Force Ghosts.
And the thing people who really complain about the Holdo Maneuver do not seem to understand is that there is more to Star Wars than the movies. Just because it was not seen in the movies does not mean it does not or cannot exist. Maybe someone has done it before, maybe we just have not seen that in the movies.

3.) I did not find Snoke's dressing down of Kylo make him seem impotent, I saw it as an accurate representation of what Kylo was in TFA, that being a brat with a bunch to learn who was not used to failing and thought a mask and a red lightsaber made him the new Vader. But thats a difference of opinion rather than fact so.

4.) Luke was meant to redeem the Jedi, but his failures are linked to TLJ's overriding theme that your destiny is not set. Luke was meant and trained to redeem the Jedi. He failed. Failure is a part of life. Maybe it was because Luke was trained so swiftly, maybe it was because of Snoke, we do not know yet. Hopefully we will find out more about the Knights of Ren and Kylo's betrayal, but until then its less clear.

The way I saw it was that Luke went to the hut to sense Kylo, and see how far Snoke's corruption went. He saw it was deep and running wild and would be the end of everything he had worked for. Can we blame him for doing what he did? Again, everyone makes mistakes.

5.) I enjoyed the Porgs, though I admit, they may not be for everyone.

6.) Hmmm I did not feel that way. I guess we had different experiences.

7.) Poe disobeyed direct orders to call off the attack, he caused the loss of the Resistance's entire bomber fleet, and Leia did not end up supporting it, she demoted him and slapped him for it. He was a hot shot who needed a time out. He is not just a soldier though, he is supposed to be an officer. Officer's are not supposed to be concerned with just killing, they need to see the big picture. That was why Leia was so upset, because Poe is supposed to be her protege; I can imagine that Leia wanted Poe to succeed her in leading the Resistance and his actions over D'Qar were that of a hot shot not a calm and collected leader.

8.) Quite. It was the weakest moment in the movie for me.

9.) I did not catch them I suppose.

1. That's fair I suppose, but I think if we look at it objectively, it doesn't really make sense for Rey to have that kind of humor when she's essentially lived most of her life in isolation.

2. If that was the case then why wouldn't defenses have been developed against it? And if they couldn't be, why would people pour that many resources into equipment that's vulnerable to pretty much anything with a hyperdrive engine? It wouldn't be smart and doesn't make sense as a result. As far as I can tell, you don't seem to address the Force ghost issue. If you could reiterate it in your response I'd appreciate it.

3. But that's exactly my point, he's shown to be a child at this stage. I get that that was intentional and I think it goes well with the character that was established in TFA, but since they do a similar thing to Hux, Phasma's a glorified stormtrooper in silver armor and Snoke's not really in the movie till the scene where he dies, there's no one to really create tension. Certainly the situation the Resistance fleet is in is tense but there's no arch-villain to truly drive home the direness of the scene. It takes away from the film a bit imo.

4. Sure it goes with the theme of the movie, but not the themes of the OT or Luke's character as it had been established up to that point. And that's my main problem, we don't know the details about ANYTHING surrounding this trilogy and it's incredibly frustrating as a result.

He can sense it from outside the tent. And certainly we can blame him.

5. I mean, as long as you're aware they only exist to sell merchandise ( porg plushies ) for the Christmas rush.

6. I suppose we did.

7. No. LEIA caused the loss of the resistance's 3 bombers by sending them to take advantage of the opening Poe had made. What Leia did after that point is ultimately irrelevant. She made the choice to send them out. She's the one who was ultimately responsible for what happened.

And honestly? Taking out a fleet killing superweapon is more relevant then saving 3 slow moving bombers that have to be directly over their target to hit it. I say Poe made the right choice there.

9. It was the Snoke scene and the scenes leading up to it mostly. I can rewatch them and quote them for you if you'd like.

I think we could go back and forth forever on this, so I'll just end it here.
I am happy that you have thought about your points however, some people just have a knee jerk reaction to the movie for some reason, and the hysterics surrounding it (The "Star Wars is ruined" crowd) just really rub me the wrong way.

For a different topic however, are there any Jedi, I am thinking the more minor ones, people are fond of? Any that you think should get some extra love? This question is open to anyone.

[The first Galactic Republic]

1. That's fair I suppose, but I think if we look at it objectively, it doesn't really make sense for Rey to have that kind of humor when she's essentially lived most of her life in isolation.

2. If that was the case then why wouldn't defenses have been developed against it? And if they couldn't be, why would people pour that many resources into equipment that's vulnerable to pretty much anything with a hyperdrive engine? It wouldn't be smart and doesn't make sense as a result. As far as I can tell, you don't seem to address the Force ghost issue. If you could reiterate it in your response I'd appreciate it.

3. But that's exactly my point, he's shown to be a child at this stage. I get that that was intentional and I think it goes well with the character that was established in TFA, but since they do a similar thing to Hux, Phasma's a glorified stormtrooper in silver armor and Snoke's not really in the movie till the scene where he dies, there's no one to really create tension. Certainly the situation the Resistance fleet is in is tense but there's no arch-villain to truly drive home the direness of the scene. It takes away from the film a bit imo.

4. Sure it goes with the theme of the movie, but not the themes of the OT or Luke's character as it had been established up to that point. And that's my main problem, we don't know the details about ANYTHING surrounding this trilogy and it's incredibly frustrating as a result.

He can sense it from outside the tent. And certainly we can blame him.

5. I mean, as long as you're aware they only exist to sell merchandise ( porg plushies ) for the Christmas rush.

6. I suppose we did.

7. No. LEIA caused the loss of the resistance's 3 bombers by sending them to take advantage of the opening Poe had made. What Leia did after that point is ultimately irrelevant. She made the choice to send them out. She's the one who was ultimately responsible for what happened.

And honestly? Taking out a fleet killing superweapon is more relevant then saving 3 slow moving bombers that have to be directly over their target to hit it. I say Poe made the right choice there.

9. It was the Snoke scene and the scenes leading up to it mostly. I can rewatch them and quote them for you if you'd like.

I think we could go back and forth forever on this, so I'll just end it here.
I am happy that you have thought about your points however, some people just have a knee jerk reaction to the movie for some reason, and the hysterics surrounding it (The "Star Wars is ruined" crowd) just really rub me the wrong way.

For a different topic however, are there any Jedi, I am thinking the more minor ones, people are fond of? Any that you think should get some extra love? This question is open to anyone.

How about this resident badass?

[Jedi Council]

I think we could go back and forth forever on this, so I'll just end it here.
I am happy that you have thought about your points however, some people just have a knee jerk reaction to the movie for some reason, and the hysterics surrounding it (The "Star Wars is ruined" crowd) just really rub me the wrong way.

For a different topic however, are there any Jedi, I am thinking the more minor ones, people are fond of? Any that you think should get some extra love? This question is open to anyone.

How about this resident badass?

His death always fascinated me.
Brave as hell for him to challenge Dooku, whose lightsaber skills probably were vastly superior to Trebor's.
Though how Jango shot fast enough to kill him still gets to me.

For me, Shaak Ti has always been epic, ever since I saw her in the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon. A total badass.
Ditto to Adi Gallia, I think the new Clone Wars killed her off to easily.
Plo Koon has impressed, it would have been nice to see him in a duel
I think people underestimate most of the Jedi simply because they were not the focus of the movies.

Conversely, I think Kit Fisto is a bit overestimated power wise, simply because he is popular.

[Isilanka]

Shaak Tii is a total badass.
Kind of a shame she was killed rather stupidly by a true Mary Sue (I mean a true one, not a "I don't like the character so Marye Sue") in The Force Unleashed 1, but hey, the game ain't cannon anyway.

[Jedi Council]

Shaak Tii is a total badass.
Kind of a shame she was killed rather stupidly by a true Mary Sue (I mean a true one, not a "I don't like the character so Marye Sue") in The Force Unleashed 1, but hey, the game ain't cannon anyway.

I prefer the Legends timeline in any case.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Shaak Tii is a total badass.
Kind of a shame she was killed rather stupidly by a true Mary Sue (I mean a true one, not a "I don't like the character so Marye Sue") in The Force Unleashed 1, but hey, the game ain't cannon anyway.

*twitches*