Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[Pythaga]

As much as I hated him dying in the EU, it most definitely served a purpose in the character development of Han and Anakin, and he died for a cause. As opposed to Luke’s death in TLJ where he basically decides he messed up so should just give up and die, only really affecting Rey in the very final scene of TROS.

They screwed up Kylo and Luke's relationship hard.

They screwed up most characters and relationships hard, but that one was especially egregious. They really should’ve read the Jedi Academy trilogy and taken notes from it. As bad as those books are they’re way better than the Luke and other force users we get in the ST.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Also Chewie still has a son to look after.

[Pythaga]

Also Chewie still has a son to look after.

I knew he had a son in Legends, but was he ever re-added to Disney canon?

[Kassaran]

Okay, explain to me what tropes and mechanics of the Star Wars franchise he took out.

His execution of Rey was great. You don't have to be from a great lineage to matter. See, that's the thing: some gans want to see direct connections between everything in the OT and everything in the ST. But there doesn't have to be. The ST was made into a poor post credits scene by RoS. It could have been so much more, but every time Ryan Johnson made something that was not directly tied to the OT people bashed him for it.

Rey? Yeah, she was interesting for a minute during it all, it was great to see her look to grow and suddenly realize she could do it all regardless.

I keep wanting to write out a long post in response, but I realize that we're in irreconcilable positions. I sit in the opinion that the ST was trash. Plain and simple. It was pretty to look at, but beyond wanting to touch on certain topics and themes, it completely fails to interest me every time.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Also Chewie still has a son to look after.

I knew he had a son in Legends, but was he ever re-added to Disney canon?

Yeah actually, though he doesn’t appear as much.

[Jedi Council]

Okay, explain to me what tropes and mechanics of the Star Wars franchise he took out.

His execution of Rey was great. You don't have to be from a great lineage to matter. See, that's the thing: some gans want to see direct connections between everything in the OT and everything in the ST. But there doesn't have to be. The ST was made into a poor post credits scene by RoS. It could have been so much more, but every time Ryan Johnson made something that was not directly tied to the OT people bashed him for it.

Rey? Yeah, she was interesting for a minute during it all, it was great to see her look to grow and suddenly realize she could do it all regardless.

I keep wanting to write out a long post in response, but I realize that we're in irreconcilable positions. I sit in the opinion that the ST was trash. Plain and simple. It was pretty to look at, but beyond wanting to touch on certain topics and themes, it completely fails to interest me every time.

While I think that the entire ST was handled poorly, I think TLJ handled Rey the best.

[Valrifell]

Okay, explain to me what tropes and mechanics of the Star Wars franchise he took out.

His execution of Rey was great. You don't have to be from a great lineage to matter. See, that's the thing: some gans want to see direct connections between everything in the OT and everything in the ST. But there doesn't have to be. The ST was made into a poor post credits scene by RoS. It could have been so much more, but every time Ryan Johnson made something that was not directly tied to the OT people bashed him for it.

Rey? Yeah, she was interesting for a minute during it all, it was great to see her look to grow and suddenly realize she could do it all regardless.

I keep wanting to write out a long post in response, but I realize that we're in irreconcilable positions. I sit in the opinion that the ST was trash. Plain and simple. It was pretty to look at, but beyond wanting to touch on certain topics and themes, it completely fails to interest me every time.

It's Disney, they exclusively make popcorn trash. If Star Wars were in the public domain we'd get neat stuff.

[Pax Nerdvana]

I see you have gone into the archives. What have you found?

Not too much. Mostly novels from the 90’s. I don’t know if those are worth anything.

But there’s a few “Collector’s Edition” magazines from when ESB and ROTJ came out. I’ll have to look into those.

The '90s era novel are good. They're not really worth much, but those magazines might be.

[Northern Davincia]

I never understood the Holdo arc. It just seemed so unnecessary and pointless to bring in this new character to command the Resistance, even if it was Laura Dern. Killing off Ackbar at the same time was just a slap in the face.

So how would you have written around his VA being dead?

It takes extremely little effort to hire a new VA.

[Northern Davincia]

What do you mean, "forced"? I have come across this word, but no-one has explained to me what a "forced female character" is supposed to be. Why does a female character need to justify her existence in a franchise? Some people are just women.

In what world does a superior officer have to explain her orders to a recently-demoted soldier? See, this is the point of the story: Poe must learn to trust those he is fighting with. He only trusts himself to make the right decisions, to the point of ignoring a direct order from Leia even though she did explain her reasoning. That's the point: Poe needed to learn to trust others. And what did he do in the story? He made up his own plan, a plan that got Finn and Rose captured, which in the end betrayed the position of the fleet.

Holdo did not kill the fleet. Poe did, because of his lack of trust, and that's the lesson he learnt in the end. The story perfectly serves to support his arc.

That's another general criticism I have of internet movie criticism: realism should serve a purpose, and that purpose is the narrative. In the choice between a good narrative and realism, you should always go for narrative 100% of the time.

"Forced" in the sense that Disney executives, most likely, sat in a boardroom and made a female protagonist mandatory for the sequel trilogy, something that would be praised by the media regardless of whether or not she was a good character. The external pressure was too great to equalize the franchise. It was a cynical move, not a creative one.

Also, blindly following orders defeats the thematic purpose of a Resistance, at least when those orders are blatantly destructive and flawed. Only the Raddus was being tracked, it would have been simple to move everyone onto smaller ships and escape.

[Jedi Council]

What do you mean, "forced"? I have come across this word, but no-one has explained to me what a "forced female character" is supposed to be. Why does a female character need to justify her existence in a franchise? Some people are just women.

In what world does a superior officer have to explain her orders to a recently-demoted soldier? See, this is the point of the story: Poe must learn to trust those he is fighting with. He only trusts himself to make the right decisions, to the point of ignoring a direct order from Leia even though she did explain her reasoning. That's the point: Poe needed to learn to trust others. And what did he do in the story? He made up his own plan, a plan that got Finn and Rose captured, which in the end betrayed the position of the fleet.

Holdo did not kill the fleet. Poe did, because of his lack of trust, and that's the lesson he learnt in the end. The story perfectly serves to support his arc.

That's another general criticism I have of internet movie criticism: realism should serve a purpose, and that purpose is the narrative. In the choice between a good narrative and realism, you should always go for narrative 100% of the time.

"Forced" in the sense that Disney executives, most likely, sat in a boardroom and made a female protagonist mandatory for the sequel trilogy, something that would be praised by the media regardless of whether or not she was a good character. The external pressure was too great to equalize the franchise. It was a cynical move, not a creative one.

Also, blindly following orders defeats the thematic purpose of a Resistance, at least when those orders are blatantly destructive and flawed. Only the Raddus was being tracked, it would have been simple to move everyone onto smaller ships and escape.

Eh I doubt their inclusion of Rey was forced; creating a female Jedi main character in a live action movie was overdue.

The trap they fell into was that they were afraid to have her start out like Luke and Anakin both did, which is whiny and inexperienced. They had an idea for a character and dove into it head first, without giving her time to evolve. By TFA, Reys personality was basically baked in, and she never really expands much past it.

However, I think one of the biggest disservices they did to her character was having her defeat Kylo in TFA. It would have been much more realistic to have that duel be more along the lines of the Luke v Vader duel in ESB, and would have blunted criticism she was a mary sue.

[Dylar]

"Forced" in the sense that Disney executives, most likely, sat in a boardroom and made a female protagonist mandatory for the sequel trilogy, something that would be praised by the media regardless of whether or not she was a good character. The external pressure was too great to equalize the franchise. It was a cynical move, not a creative one.

Also, blindly following orders defeats the thematic purpose of a Resistance, at least when those orders are blatantly destructive and flawed. Only the Raddus was being tracked, it would have been simple to move everyone onto smaller ships and escape.

Eh I doubt their inclusion of Rey was forced; creating a female Jedi main character in a live action movie was overdue.

The trap they fell into was that they were afraid to have her start out like Luke and Anakin both did, which is whiny and inexperienced. They had an idea for a character and dove into it head first, without giving her time to evolve. By TFA, Reys personality was basically baked in, and she never really expands much past it.

However, I think one of the biggest disservices they did to her character was having her defeat Kylo in TFA. It would have been much more realistic to have that duel be more along the lines of the Luke v Vader duel in ESB, and would have blunted criticism she was a mary sue.

Plus it can't really be a Star Wars trilogy without one of the main character's limbs getting cut off

[Pax Nerdvana]

Eh I doubt their inclusion of Rey was forced; creating a female Jedi main character in a live action movie was overdue.

The trap they fell into was that they were afraid to have her start out like Luke and Anakin both did, which is whiny and inexperienced. They had an idea for a character and dove into it head first, without giving her time to evolve. By TFA, Reys personality was basically baked in, and she never really expands much past it.

However, I think one of the biggest disservices they did to her character was having her defeat Kylo in TFA. It would have been much more realistic to have that duel be more along the lines of the Luke v Vader duel in ESB, and would have blunted criticism she was a mary sue.

Plus it can't really be a Star Wars trilogy without one of the main character's limbs getting cut off

Honnestly. It's sort of a rite of passage.

[Stanmenistan]

IDK why everyone is making a big deal about the High Republic's Wookiee Jedi when there were several in the Old EU (although, to be fair, every species had at least 1 Jedi member in the EU) and Gungi in the 2008 Clone Wars Cartoon

Plenty of people made them in the Star Wars Identities exhibition (although dozens of combinations were possible); In fact, I wonder if the creator of Burryaga created him as an OC there first.

I'd really like to see a Wookiee Sith or Dark Jedi, NGL. The Wookiee's aggressive temperament would go well with the Sith's code.

[Alvecia]

Didn't even know there were people making a fuss

[Pythaga]

I'd really like to see a Wookiee Sith or Dark Jedi, NGL. The Wookiee's aggressive temperament would go well with the Sith's code.

A sith wookie would be incredibly awesome!

[Stanmenistan]

Didn't even know there were people making a fuss

Jerry Holkins and/or Mike Krahulik are the only ones I know for sure who are really concerned about it, which suggests they've never seen any of the many Wookiee Jedi who have appeared before. Or at least Tycho and Gabe haven't.

I'd really like to see a Wookiee Sith or Dark Jedi, NGL. The Wookiee's aggressive temperament would go well with the Sith's code.

A sith wookie would be incredibly awesome!

Yeah, perhaps an ex-Slave Wookiee. In Legends, IIRC, Vader disliked the Empire's practice of Slavery as he was an ex-slave himself. He could have freed one and taken him/her as a Dark Jedi Acolyte, a Wookie version of Galen Marek.

[Pythaga]

A sith wookie would be incredibly awesome!

Yeah, perhaps an ex-Slave Wookiee. In Legends, IIRC, Vader disliked the Empire's practice of Slavery as he was an ex-slave himself. He could have freed one and taken him/her as a Dark Jedi Acolyte, a Wookie version of Galen MArek.

That would've made a great Force Unleashed game.

[Ameriganastan]

I mean a Jedi Wookie is cool. Can you imagine how scary a 7-foot tall man bear is already? Now give him a lightsaber and magic powers. I'd leave the Sith right after seeing that.

[Andsed]

I mean a Jedi Wookie is cool. Can you imagine how scary a 7-foot tall man bear is already? Now give him a lightsaber and magic powers. I'd leave the Sith right after seeing that.

Honestly true. Like they don't even need a Lightsaber to be scary. Combining Wookie strength with the reflexes and speed of a trained force user? They would have hands for fucking days.

[New haven america]

Wookie slavery is pretty moronic when you think about it.

Like, how are you supposed to control an entire population of 7-10 ft tall humanoid guerrilla bears that eats mostly meat (Super expensive for slave food), have 3in long canine teeth and and up to 7in long claws, and were strong enough that the average adult male could rip a human's arm off?

Those are all really bad qualities for a slave species.

[Jedi Council]

Wookie slavery is pretty moronic when you think about it.

Like, how are you supposed to control an entire population of 7-10 ft tall humanoid guerrilla bears that eats mostly meat (Super expensive for slave food), have 3in long canine teeth and and up to 7in long claws, and were strong enough that the average adult male could rip a human's arm off?

Those are all really bad qualities for a slave species.

I think a lack of technological advancement is the lore answer as to why Wookies were enslaved.

[New haven america]

Wookie slavery is pretty moronic when you think about it.

Like, how are you supposed to control an entire population of 7-10 ft tall humanoid guerrilla bears that eats mostly meat (Super expensive for slave food), have 3in long canine teeth and and up to 7in long claws, and were strong enough that the average adult male could rip a human's arm off?

Those are all really bad qualities for a slave species.

I think a lack of technological advancement is the lore answer as to why Wookies were enslaved.

In the EU Wookies had the same level of technology as everyone else for >10,000 years, and every time they've been shown off in canon they did as well.

[Jedi Council]

I think a lack of technological advancement is the lore answer as to why Wookies were enslaved.

In the EU Wookies had the same level of technology as everyone else for >10,000 years, and every time they've been shown off in canon they did as well.

Not quite, Wookies in the EU were a primitive people at first. They were enslaved by the Rakata and then the Czerka Corporation. It was only the overthrow of the latter's occupation that Wookies were freed, and even then, it was only after the arrival of the Trandoshans that they began to explore the galaxy for themselves.

As for the new canon, who knows. I tend to ignore it because it is far less detailed and far less interesting.

[Pythaga]

Wookie slavery is pretty moronic when you think about it.

Like, how are you supposed to control an entire population of 7-10 ft tall humanoid guerrilla bears that eats mostly meat (Super expensive for slave food), have 3in long canine teeth and and up to 7in long claws, and were strong enough that the average adult male could rip a human's arm off?

Those are all really bad qualities for a slave species.

I think a lack of technological advancement is the lore answer as to why Wookies were enslaved.

A being's size and strength don't matter to much if you have stun weapons that can knock them unconscious, and decently engineered stuncuffs and shock collars.

The Empire chose them because their physical strength and technical/engineering knowhow is a major asset in construction labor tasks, which they were used for.