Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[The Huskar Social Union]

One where we sort of agree. I don't think it outright RUINED him but it was a step down from previous portrayals.

And what exactly did he do onscreen in the cartoon for that to be a step down?

This i imagine is what is being referred to.

[Genivaria]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

[Dylar]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

So Kamino?

[Fedel]

One where we sort of agree. I don't think it outright RUINED him but it was a step down from previous portrayals.

And what exactly did he do onscreen in the cartoon for that to be a step down?

He was depicted as cunning, effective, courageous and powerful in the miniseries. The first scene having Grievous scuttle away from Anakin and Kenobi didn't exactly uphold those last two traits.

[Andsed]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

Sadly that would have required the Empire and the general populace giving a shit about them, something I do not believe was really the case. The Jedi were some of the few who really did care about the clones which makes Order 66 even more painful.

[Ameriganastan]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

Yeah, I don't see it going that way. Set the Clones free and give them run of their own society, and you'd be looking at a big time rebellion sooner than later.

[Kathol Rift]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

Do that, but take out the “fanatically loyal to the Republic part,” then you have Kal Skirata’s little retirement property on Mandalore.

[Genivaria]

The Clonetroopers deserved to be given their own planet/ system to live on and create a society of martial prowess that is fanatically loyal to the republic.

So Kamino?

Kamino was run by the Kaminoans, not the Clones.

[Ameriganastan]

So Kamino?

Kamino was run by the Kaminoans, not the Clones.

Didn't the Clones try overthrowing them once?

[Dylar]

Kamino was run by the Kaminoans, not the Clones.

Didn't the Clones try overthrowing them once?

Not that I know of. You're probably thinking of the clone rebellion against the Empire from Battlefront 2

[Kathol Rift]

Didn't the Clones try overthrowing them once?

Not that I know of. You're probably thinking of the clone rebellion against the Empire from Battlefront 2

That level broke me. Why would they send in the clone bois to kill clone bois? That’s just cruel.

[Genivaria]

Not that I know of. You're probably thinking of the clone rebellion against the Empire from Battlefront 2

That level broke me. Why would they send in the clone bois to kill clone bois? That’s just cruel.

Because the Empire is cruel, and because Imperial Stormtroopers would've been thrashed by the rebel Clones.

[Vassenor]

Not that I know of. You're probably thinking of the clone rebellion against the Empire from Battlefront 2

That level broke me. Why would they send in the clone bois to kill clone bois? That’s just cruel.

Because it wasn't until after that point that the Stormtrooper Corps started being made up of non-clones.

[Impaled Nazarene]

TLJ is on right now and for all of its horrendous flaws I think making Luke a failure as a teacher was a great decision. If not for Holdo and all the shitty ha ha moments it would probably be the best of the disney films.

[Andsed]

TLJ is on right now and for all of its horrendous flaws I think making Luke a failure as a teacher was a great decision. If not for Holdo and all the shitty ha ha moments it would probably be the best of the disney films.

I am not opposed to on principle, I just think it was executed poorly. Luke trying to kill Ben felt out of character for me and so did him just totally giving up after. Not to mention I honestly hated that they just killed off the New Jedi Order(though that is more on JJ and TFA then TLk.)

[Ameriganastan]

I just learned Babu Frik was voiced by the chick who played Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies.

Learn something new every day.

[Impaled Nazarene]

TLJ is on right now and for all of its horrendous flaws I think making Luke a failure as a teacher was a great decision. If not for Holdo and all the shitty ha ha moments it would probably be the best of the disney films.

I am not opposed to on principle, I just think it was executed poorly. Luke trying to kill Ben felt out of character for me and so did him just totally giving up after. Not to mention I honestly hated that they just killed off the New Jedi Order(though that is more on JJ and TFA then TLk.)

Luke trying to kill Ben is so out of character that I actually ignore it because while Luke, Han, and especially Leia act out of character to an extent that one scene is an abomination.

[Valrifell]

I am not opposed to on principle, I just think it was executed poorly. Luke trying to kill Ben felt out of character for me and so did him just totally giving up after. Not to mention I honestly hated that they just killed off the New Jedi Order(though that is more on JJ and TFA then TLk.)

Luke trying to kill Ben is so out of character that I actually ignore it because while Luke, Han, and especially Leia act out of character to an extent that one scene is an abomination.

Luke's always been a dumbass bitch-boy, though.

[Ameriganastan]

I mean, it doesn't seem very out of character to me. Luke always had a habit of acting rashly. Like when he jogged off to fight dear old dad before he finished his training.

[Andsed]

Luke trying to kill Ben is so out of character that I actually ignore it because while Luke, Han, and especially Leia act out of character to an extent that one scene is an abomination.

Luke's always been a dumbass bitch-boy, though.

Was is the correct term. Luke used to be a whiny impulsive farm boy. His whole arc was about becoming a Jedi and growing as a person. Having him revert to the same old version of himself came off lazy and really unsatisfying. Luke trying to kill Ben is not something he would do. He was willing to believe in and spare Vader who was a fucking monster. Killing his own nephew instead of talking to him and when that went wrong leaving his friends to die? That is just not something I can see Luke doing.

[Impaled Nazarene]

I mean, it doesn't seem very out of character to me. Luke always had a habit of acting rashly. Like when he jogged off to fight dear old dad before he finished his training.

There's acting rashly and then there's ignoring the entirety of episode 6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqaiKmm8gsY

[Valrifell]

Luke's always been a dumbass bitch-boy, though.

Was is the correct term. Luke used to be a whiny impulsive farm boy. His whole arc was about becoming a Jedi and growing as a person. Having him revert to the same old version of himself came off lazy and really unsatisfying. Luke trying to kill Ben is not something he would do. He was willing to believe in and spare Vader who was a fucking monster. Killing his own nephew instead of talking to him and when that went wrong leaving his friends to die? That is just not something I can see Luke doing.

The movie states that he thought about for a fleeting moment and came to his senses very quickly, the whole new Jedi order was under the dark influence of whatever Snoke was doing. Sure, him doing that was uncharacteristic but that can be chalked up to external forces.

So I could give him a pass for considering it, but I do think that unsheathing your light saber was perhaps too far afield and there could have, perhaps, been a subtler way to convey that Luke secretly kinda wanted to murder him a little. It might've been neat to throw some unreliability into the narrative, too.

[Andsed]

Was is the correct term. Luke used to be a whiny impulsive farm boy. His whole arc was about becoming a Jedi and growing as a person. Having him revert to the same old version of himself came off lazy and really unsatisfying. Luke trying to kill Ben is not something he would do. He was willing to believe in and spare Vader who was a fucking monster. Killing his own nephew instead of talking to him and when that went wrong leaving his friends to die? That is just not something I can see Luke doing.

The movie states that he thought about for a fleeting moment and came to his senses very quickly, the whole new Jedi order was under the dark influence of whatever Snoke was doing. Sure, him doing that was uncharacteristic but that can be chalked up to external forces.

So I could give him a pass for considering it, but I do think that unsheathing your light saber was perhaps too far afield and there could have, perhaps, been a subtler way to convey that Luke secretly kinda wanted to murder him a little. It might've been neat to throw some unreliability into the narrative, too.

If that it was it I could give it a pass. But then having Luke completely give up? That is what really breaks his character for me. Luke is the type to make mistakes, but he does not just give up like that. Especially when his loved ones are in danger. If it had been Luke had traveled to Ach-To to learn from his mistake and the ancient Jedi and consider what to do and he actually trained Rey and helped the resistance then it would sit a lot better with me.

[Valrifell]

The movie states that he thought about for a fleeting moment and came to his senses very quickly, the whole new Jedi order was under the dark influence of whatever Snoke was doing. Sure, him doing that was uncharacteristic but that can be chalked up to external forces.

So I could give him a pass for considering it, but I do think that unsheathing your light saber was perhaps too far afield and there could have, perhaps, been a subtler way to convey that Luke secretly kinda wanted to murder him a little. It might've been neat to throw some unreliability into the narrative, too.

If that it was it I could give it a pass. But then having Luke completely give up? That is what really breaks his character for me. Luke is the type to make mistakes, but he does not just give up like that. Especially when his loved ones are in danger. If it had been Luke had traveled to Ach-To to learn from his mistake and the ancient Jedi and consider what to do and he actually trained Rey and helped the resistance then it would sit a lot better with me.

Yeah, I agree. Having him meditate on looking to the past for solutions (instead of outright giving up) could also jive with the pre-existing themes of the movie. Plus it would make the scene with Yoda burning the sacred Jedi texts from beyond the grave and Luke's reaction... make a little more sense?

As for helping the Resistance? I don't think that would have ever been in the cards, meta/production-wise. Part of the overarching themes of the first two movies (haven't seen RoS) is handing stuff to a new generation. I think having him go out as a tricksy force-hologram was probably the best it was going to get for his final ending.

[Fedel]

TLJ is on right now and for all of its horrendous flaws I think making Luke a failure as a teacher was a great decision. If not for Holdo and all the shitty ha ha moments it would probably be the best of the disney films.

One could make the same argument for Palpatine if he had been portrayed as a saint in TROS who had repented of his evil ways after witnessing his apprentice deny his teachings in RotJ in order to save his son.

I don't have a problem with such outcomes in and of themselves, I have a problem with the fact that we wouldn't have been shown the character developing into a bizarro version of themselves.

It's why I have a problem with how Luke was depicted in TLJ. You can't even use ancillary material as an excuse since nothing in the Disney's tie in material even hinted at that.