Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[Andsed]

You know what I do not get? Why the Reppublc relied on the Clones so much. Sure in the beginning it was necessary but the Republic was bigger the CIS. They could of and should of used it´s full industrial and manpower to overwhelm the CIS. Where was the normal non clones/Jedi troops?

[North German Realm]

Clones were invariably superior to Battle droids during the clone wars, and the only reason they didn’t steamroll the CIS is because good old Sheev Palpatine deliberately spread the the clone army onto so many fronts for the sole purpose of dragging out the war. Without that, the Republic would have won very quickly.

Change my mind.

That's false though. The droids outnumbered them to so comedic degree that if the CIS wasn't being ridiculously stupid, the Clones would have been wiped out in a matter of few battles. Hell, if they weren't being stupid (or, you know, played so as to drag out the war), they'd just glass Kamino and there goes the Republic's chances for any more clones.

[North German Realm]

You know what I do not get? Why the Reppublc relied on the Clones so much. Sure in the beginning it was necessary but the Republic was bigger the CIS. They could of and should of used it´s full industrial and manpower to overwhelm the CIS. Where was the normal non clones/Jedi troops?

The entire reason the war even went on (and why the CIS didn't win in the first year) was because the majority of the Republic and the Confederacy weren't fighting, leaving the fighting to "replaceable mooks". Of course the Republic relied on clones. The entire reason they were there was so the citizens of the Republic wouldn't be the ones fighting.

[Kathol Rift]

Clones were invariably superior to Battle droids during the clone wars, and the only reason they didn’t steamroll the CIS is because good old Sheev Palpatine deliberately spread the the clone army onto so many fronts for the sole purpose of dragging out the war. Without that, the Republic would have won very quickly.

Change my mind.

That's false though. The droids outnumbered them to so comedic degree that if the CIS wasn't being ridiculously stupid, the Clones would have been wiped out in a matter of few battles. Hell, if they weren't being stupid (or, you know, played so as to drag out the war), they'd just glass Kamino and there goes the Republic's chances for any more clones.

Kamino was the most heavily defended planet in the republic other than Coruscant for that very reason. Remember, the droids outnumbered the clones, but the CIS Navy didn’t outnumber the Republic Navy significantly enough to be able to launch a full attack on Kamino. My point is that if both sides had the restricting factor of Palps and the Jedi removed, then the Republic would win. The republic would have access to lore resources, more manpower (because Palps refused to initiate a draft for regular citizens, mostly to keep the stalemate) and better soldiers and equipment. The CIS would have been able to produce more droids yes, and would be able to do more damage, but in the end, the Republic would have had the superior men, superior equipment, superior leadership, superior ability to produce, and at the very least they would have had relatively even numbers.

[The first Galactic Republic]

You know what I do not get? Why the Reppublc relied on the Clones so much. Sure in the beginning it was necessary but the Republic was bigger the CIS. They could of and should of used it´s full industrial and manpower to overwhelm the CIS. Where was the normal non clones/Jedi troops?

I’ve always wondered that myself.

But the main purpose of the Clones was always Order 66. Palpatine wanted troops he could effectively program.

So his machinations certainly kept the Jedi dependent on them.

[Mirial Magna]

The only reason the CIS didn't produce more battle droids, and inevitably better ones as well, was also because of Palps. The CIS would have been much larger, as well as much faster, forcing the clones to be spread out thin anyways, a single clone may be superior to a single battle droid, but a hundred battle droids is without a doubt going to defeat a single clone. The odds obviously aren't always going to be 100:1, but the CIS wasn't allowed to produce as many battle droids as they could have due to Palps, and since clones take a longer time to be in fighting shape, the CIS would be the ones steamrolling.

Aha, but even removing that limit, there were lots of clone commanders and ARC troopers who knew how to beat the CIS. They had a plan to do it, and it was presented to the Chancellor and the Jedi council several times. They had the power to steamroll any separatist center they wanted if they focused on it, but Palps had the entire military involved in sieges all over the place. If they stopped focusing on every minor battlefront, most of which wouldn’t have even been battlefronts if Palps hadn’t wanted it to be so, and focused on the major CIS centers and factories, they could have gotten the CIS one planet at a time. And they had the technology to grow clones faster. If we’re going by Legends here, then Palps had a second clone army in reserve that was grown by using Spaarti technology. They weren’t as high of quality, but it was almost as large as the clone army in service, plus a whole fleet of ships. If the clone commanders had been allowed control of those resources and the battle plans, then the Clone Wars could have been won whether or not Palps limited the CIS, because he wouldn’t have been limiting the Grand Army of the Republic either. Also, the Jedi didn’t learn how to be generals until quite a ways into the war, but they went ahead and did it anyways, wasting countless clone lives in the process. Like I said, if the Clone commanders had been in charge of the clone army, the Republic would almost certainly have won.

Specifically, if said Clone Commanders had been Mandalorian trained.

[Northern Davincia]

You know what I do not get? Why the Reppublc relied on the Clones so much. Sure in the beginning it was necessary but the Republic was bigger the CIS. They could of and should of used it´s full industrial and manpower to overwhelm the CIS. Where was the normal non clones/Jedi troops?

If I recall correctly, both sides did use organic militias that were not part of the standard army. However, it is much harder to manipulate such groups.

[Kathol Rift]

Aha, but even removing that limit, there were lots of clone commanders and ARC troopers who knew how to beat the CIS. They had a plan to do it, and it was presented to the Chancellor and the Jedi council several times. They had the power to steamroll any separatist center they wanted if they focused on it, but Palps had the entire military involved in sieges all over the place. If they stopped focusing on every minor battlefront, most of which wouldn’t have even been battlefronts if Palps hadn’t wanted it to be so, and focused on the major CIS centers and factories, they could have gotten the CIS one planet at a time. And they had the technology to grow clones faster. If we’re going by Legends here, then Palps had a second clone army in reserve that was grown by using Spaarti technology. They weren’t as high of quality, but it was almost as large as the clone army in service, plus a whole fleet of ships. If the clone commanders had been allowed control of those resources and the battle plans, then the Clone Wars could have been won whether or not Palps limited the CIS, because he wouldn’t have been limiting the Grand Army of the Republic either. Also, the Jedi didn’t learn how to be generals until quite a ways into the war, but they went ahead and did it anyways, wasting countless clone lives in the process. Like I said, if the Clone commanders had been in charge of the clone army, the Republic would almost certainly have won.

Specifically, if said Clone Commanders had been Mandalorian trained.

That is why I mentioned the ARC troopers. A lot of my evidence for this comes from the Republic Commando books. Which aren’t canon anymore, so my entire argument is grounded in legends. However, the Clone Wars series does have some evidence that correlates with parts of my argument, but my argument is overall far less sound when considered in canon.

[Jolthig]

What lightsaber form are you? Especially since many of us use NSG.

I think I am Vaapad as I fight against aggressive opponents, channeling their energy right back at them, and using their fighting energy against them, making myself equal to them. I also, while remaining in the light, allow myself to enjoy a good fight and competition and the feeling of victory over an opponent.

[Jolthig]

You know what I do not get? Why the Reppublc relied on the Clones so much. Sure in the beginning it was necessary but the Republic was bigger the CIS. They could of and should of used it´s full industrial and manpower to overwhelm the CIS. Where was the normal non clones/Jedi troops?

Remember the Sith grand plan to kill all the Jedi?

[Kathol Rift]

What lightsaber form are you? Especially since many of us use NSG.

I think I am Vaapad as I fight against aggressive opponents, channeling their energy right back at them, and using their fighting energy against them, making myself equal to them. I also, while remaining in the light, allow myself to enjoy a good fight and competition and the feeling of victory over an opponent.

Jar’kai. I’m a dual saber kind of guy.

[Andsed]

What lightsaber form are you? Especially since many of us use NSG.

I think I am Vaapad as I fight against aggressive opponents, channeling their energy right back at them, and using their fighting energy against them, making myself equal to them. I also, while remaining in the light, allow myself to enjoy a good fight and competition and the feeling of victory over an opponent.

I would go with a combination of Makashi and Ataru. Basically using more acrobatic and swift movements to outmaneuver an opponent. That and maybe elements Soresu for dealing with blaster fire.

[Idzequitch]

What lightsaber form are you? Especially since many of us use NSG.

I think I am Vaapad as I fight against aggressive opponents, channeling their energy right back at them, and using their fighting energy against them, making myself equal to them. I also, while remaining in the light, allow myself to enjoy a good fight and competition and the feeling of victory over an opponent.

I see myself as a Soresu kind of guy.

[Ameriganastan]

Whatever form the Sabterstaff counts as.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Ordered Ros on amazon and waiting for it to ship. Will take a very long time apparently.

[Idzequitch]

Ordered Ros on amazon and waiting for it to ship. Will take a very long time apparently.

Maybe we can all move to a galaxy far, far away to escape the effects of the coronavirus. And probably end up dealing with stuff that's even worse, but y'know...

[Northern Davincia]

Ordered Ros on amazon and waiting for it to ship. Will take a very long time apparently.

Maybe we can all move to a galaxy far, far away to escape the effects of the coronavirus. And probably end up dealing with stuff that's even worse, but y'know...

*Blue Shadow Virus intensifies*

[Kathol Rift]

Maybe we can all move to a galaxy far, far away to escape the effects of the coronavirus. And probably end up dealing with stuff that's even worse, but y'know...

*Blue Shadow Virus intensifies*

Pathetic. *Project Blackwing intensifies*

[Dylar]

*Blue Shadow Virus intensifies*

Pathetic. *Project Blackwing intensifies*

Pfft... *Trihexalon intensifies*

[Idzequitch]

Pathetic. *Project Blackwing intensifies*

Pfft... *Trihexalon intensifies*

Meh. *Jar-Jar intensifies*

[Kathol Rift]

Pfft... *Trihexalon intensifies*

Meh. *Jar-Jar intensifies*

Shab, they found the deadliest disease from Star Wars. We’ve all been beat.

[Northern Davincia]

Pathetic. *Project Blackwing intensifies*

Pfft... *Trihexalon intensifies*

I had almost forgotten the Rakghoul plague.

[Genivaria]

If somehow for whatever reason Palpatine was taken out of the picture (the Jedi discovering the plot earlier or Dooku killing him for example) then the war would still continue as the greivances that the CIS have against the Republic still exist.
The CIS would start to properly push Republic space with their greater numbers which would force the Republic to enact conscription IF they aren't overwhelmed before then.
The Clone Wars would likely be much shorter.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I wish more EU writers, canon and legends, would have focused on Separatist characters and war material becoming involved with the Rebellion. I imagine people unhappy with the Republic wouldn’t have liked the Empire any better. It’d be cool to see some Separatist commanders with the Rebels. Imagine Alliance droidekas, AATs, and Providence Class cruisers.

This happened to some extent, but not much. That Rebels episode where they meet Kalani is the most we’ve ever gotten.

[Andsed]

I wish more EU writers, canon and legends, would have focused on Separatist characters and war material becoming involved with the Rebellion. I imagine people unhappy with the Republic wouldn’t have liked the Empire any better. It’d be cool to see some Separatist commanders with the Rebels. Imagine Alliance droidekas, AATs, and Providence Class cruisers.

This happened to some extent, but not much. That Rebels episode where they meet Kalani is the most we’ve ever gotten.

I mean we saw some of that in the comics. For example the former separatist New Plympto actually formed a resistance against the Empire(ironically under the leadership of a Jedi.) Of course said resistance was crushed and all of the rebels were executed and their families (including children and on the emperors orders no less) were sold into slavery because you know the empire is fucking evil.