Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Problem being that force ghost is typically the realm of the Jedi. If he dies before his redemption arc, no blue halo

Not just "typically". It's a hard and fast rule in this canon that Sith can't be Force Ghosts.

I think it’s the most important part of Star Wars lore. The Sith are looking for way to become immortal, while only through the Light Side, and through accepting death, is immortality achievable.

[New haven america]

99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.

I loathe TLJ as much as the next man, but the root of the entire ST's problems are, aside from Disney not having a clue what to do with it, largely with JJ Abrams.

He did his typical 'mystery box' thing in TFA (read: set up a bunch of 'mysteries' without having a solid answer to what their resolutions were himself), then CHOSE not to direct or write the following movies, or even to take on some kind of supervising/creative oversight role, thus leaving Johnson free to just toss his half-baked mysteries out and do what he wanted. Which then of course meant he had to "fix" things when got roped into coming back for IX after Trevorrow got the boot.

Abrams and Johnson were both pretty much terrible choices for the ST. Abrams only talent is repackaging the work of other more talented people, and Johnson is way to fixated on sUbVerTinG ExPecTatIonS regardless of whether it makes sense or is narratively satisfying or works in the context of the middle movie of a trilogy.

The Imperial training program was notoriously bad at encouraging skill and discipline and more focused on emphasizing ruthlessness at the expense of your comrades. They had a very 'sith academy' mindset.

Yeah, no. Even accepting that as true, which would explain a lot, there is no excuse for Endor. We saw the Ewoks: short, stubby, clumsy teddy bears. We saw their weapons: crappy bows and slings. We saw their tactics: None, aside from that one log trap. Regardless of how screwed up Stormtrooper training is there is no way they should have lost on Endor.

Give me a single platoon of modern Infantry and I'll hold the bunker on Endor and render the Ewoks extinct while I'm at it.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Disney stopped being so greedy and actually took their time planning out the movies instead of just pumping them out almost immediately after buying Lucasfilms?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I mean it was a pretty minor thing in the movie. A lot bigger things to be upset about.

99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.

Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.

TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.

This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.

[Impaled Nazarene]

He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.

Problem being that force ghost is typically the realm of the Jedi. If he dies before his redemption arc, no blue halo

If Kylo can force hallucinate his dad talking to him than something similar can happen to Rey.

99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.

Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.

TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.

This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.

Oh please, RJ wrote them into an inescapable low point. At the end of Empire the rebels still had their fleet, at the end of TLJ there were a dozen rebels, in a galaxy of more people than any of us could guess. RJ wanted to have his movie be the only one that mattered. He somehow made TLJ the first, middle, and last film in a series and fucked up all three things. When JJ has to unfuck your movie you know you fucked up. Should have just had JJ make all 3 and stopped executive meddling with 7 and then we wouldn't have this mess. RoS played it way too safe but where the fuck do you go after the massive disruption of 8???

[New haven america]

99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.

1. Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.

2. TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.

3. This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.

1. Yes, it literally ended the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie out of 3.
2. They only had 12 members left and for some reason seemed pretty happy to have lost.
3. TLJ set up nothing and most of what it did it did badly.

[Cannot think of a name]

Upside:

he died

He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.

That...nicely done. That would have been kind of great.

[Impaled Nazarene]

He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.

That...nicely done. That would have been kind of great.

I'm surprisingly not a terrible writer 24/7

[Ameriganastan]

I do agree that

he should have died after she shanked him. Now I know force healing has been a thing for a while, but it seemed kind of a copout.

[Northern Davincia]

That...nicely done. That would have been kind of great.

I'm surprisingly not a terrible writer 24/7

What Disney has taught us is that literally anyone could write Star Wars better than them.

[Impaled Nazarene]

I do agree that

he should have died after she shanked him. Now I know force healing has been a thing for a while, but it seemed kind of a copout.

Outside of the games and books I don't think Force Healing has been seen much at all. At least they set it up earlier in the film but I do agree it is quite the copout. Kylo's death just felt poorly handled. JJ played it too PG. Like i get Star Wars has always been simple but you could at least try with the little things.

[Idzequitch]

I'm surprisingly not a terrible writer 24/7

What Disney has taught us is that literally anyone could write Star Wars better than them.

Rather than going for big name directors, they should have got someone who actually knows Star Wars well and cares about it to at least create the plot and do some writing. Star Wars fans generally know what most Star Wars fans are looking for, I think. And what we got just isn't it. There's fan fiction that's way more compelling than these movies were.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

1. Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.

2. TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.

3. This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.

1. Yes, it literally ended the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie out of 3.
2. They only had 12 members left and for some reason seemed pretty happy to have lost.
3. TLJ set up nothing and most of what it did it did badly.

1. The First Order was defeated, all evil-doers were gone, and the rebels were victorious. The big bad of the series was literally stronger than it ever was, and the main cast was still alive. How can you say that it ended the trilogy? They still had the First Order to defeat.
2. Only twelve members who were happy to be alive. Of course, this is something JJ just disregarded, as he started the rebels off with a fleet of starfighters and a corvette. If he didn't take what Johnson gave him, how can Johnson be responsible for the failures of Rise of Skywalker? Star Wars doesn't need to be about a big rebel fleet overpowering the enemy. The dramatic tension in Return of the Jedi comes from Luke's battle of wits with Palpatine, not from the fleet battle.
3. It didn't set up anything? What do you mean by that? Yeah, it didn't set up any empty mystery boxes. It didn't try to keep people hooked with mysteries without answers. It, however, did leave the movie at a compelling end: a destroyed rebellion, a risen First Order, and hope in the form of that force-sensitive boy. That's more than enough set-up for a good movie. A good star wars movie does not need fan theory bait, which is what Rise of Skywalker and The Force Awakens were. Perfectly calibrated to get the internet buzzing with theories. It's a cynical marketing ploy by Abrams.

Oh please, RJ wrote them into an inescapable low point. At the end of Empire the rebels still had their fleet, at the end of TLJ there were a dozen rebels, in a galaxy of more people than any of us could guess. RJ wanted to have his movie be the only one that mattered. He somehow made TLJ the first, middle, and last film in a series and fucked up all three things. When JJ has to unfuck your movie you know you fucked up. Should have just had JJ make all 3 and stopped executive meddling with 7 and then we wouldn't have this mess. RoS played it way too safe but where the fuck do you go after the massive disruption of 8???

It is not an inescapable low point. It is a low point, but do you really think that it is impossible for a movie to get them out of that? How many movies exists where one man has to fight the entire US government? How many James Bond movies are there?

If RJ wanted to be the only movie that mattered, then why did he use so many of the threads laid out before him, and why did he make the rebels lose?

You say that RJ fucked it, but not in any way how. Just that, somehow, RJ forced JJ into making all the bad decisions he did. Alright, here is a list of what I think are the biggest fuck-ups of RoS. You can add some if you want:

Palpatine returning from death without explanation
Rey being a Palpatine without explanation, completely going against previous explanation
The rushed pacing of the first act
The mountain of object they had to collect
Force healing
The Reylo Kiss
The rebels conjuring a corvette out of their ass
The rebels suddenly commanding a fleet of volunteers where nobody wanted to help Leia
The hollow fan service

Now, could you explain to me how any of these points were caused by The Last Jedi? And are you really saying that, given The Last Jedi, there is no possible story that could be told? Literally, there is no good story that could be told given The Last Jedi? I'm not saying a perfect trilogy was possible, but was episode 9 doomed to failure? Because there is literally an entire Star Wars universe out there. Don't tell me that a story about the rebellion being built back from the ground up is not a compelling story.

[New haven america]

1. Yes, it literally ended the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie out of 3.
2. They only had 12 members left and for some reason seemed pretty happy to have lost.
3. TLJ set up nothing and most of what it did it did badly.

1. The First Order was defeated, all evil-doers were gone, and the rebels were victorious. The big bad of the series was literally stronger than it ever was, and the main cast was still alive. How can you say that it ended the trilogy? They still had the First Order to defeat.
2. Only twelve members who were happy to be alive. 3, Of course, this is something JJ just disregarded, as he started the rebels off with a fleet of starfighters and a corvette. If he didn't take what Johnson gave him, how can Johnson be responsible for the failures of Rise of Skywalker? Star Wars doesn't need to be about a big rebel fleet overpowering the enemy. 4. The dramatic tension in Return of the Jedi comes from Luke's battle of wits with Palpatine, not from the fleet battle.
5. It didn't set up anything? 6. What do you mean by that? 7. Yeah, it didn't set up any empty mystery boxes. It didn't try to keep people hooked with mysteries without answers. 8. It, however, did leave the movie at a compelling end: a destroyed rebellion, a risen First Order, and hope in the form of that force-sensitive boy. 9. That's more than enough set-up for a good movie. 10. A good star wars movie does not need fan theory bait, which is what Rise of Skywalker and The Force Awakens were. Perfectly calibrated to get the internet buzzing with theories. It's a cynical marketing ploy by Abrams.

Oh please, RJ wrote them into an inescapable low point. At the end of Empire the rebels still had their fleet, at the end of TLJ there were a dozen rebels, in a galaxy of more people than any of us could guess. RJ wanted to have his movie be the only one that mattered. He somehow made TLJ the first, middle, and last film in a series and fucked up all three things. When JJ has to unfuck your movie you know you fucked up. Should have just had JJ make all 3 and stopped executive meddling with 7 and then we wouldn't have this mess. RoS played it way too safe but where the fuck do you go after the massive disruption of 8???

It is not an inescapable low point. It is a low point, but do you really think that it is impossible for a movie to get them out of that? How many movies exists where one man has to fight the entire US government? How many James Bond movies are there?

If RJ wanted to be the only movie that mattered, then why did he use so many of the threads laid out before him, and why did he make the rebels lose?

You say that RJ fucked it, but not in any way how. Just that, somehow, RJ forced JJ into making all the bad decisions he did. Alright, here is a list of what I think are the biggest fuck-ups of RoS. You can add some if you want:

Palpatine returning from death without explanation
Rey being a Palpatine without explanation, completely going against previous explanation
The rushed pacing of the first act
The mountain of object they had to collect
Force healing
The Reylo Kiss
The rebels conjuring a corvette out of their ass
The rebels suddenly commanding a fleet of volunteers where nobody wanted to help Leia
The hollow fan service

Now, could you explain to me how any of these points were caused by The Last Jedi? And are you really saying that, given The Last Jedi, there is no possible story that could be told? Literally, there is no good story that could be told given The Last Jedi? I'm not saying a perfect trilogy was possible, but was episode 9 doomed to failure? Because there is literally an entire Star Wars universe out there. Don't tell me that a story about the rebellion being built back from the ground up is not a compelling story.

1. The First Order won, took over the Galaxy, destroyed The Resistance, and Luke died. TLJ didn't end like AotC or ESB, those still had places to take the story at hand, it ended how Revenge of the Sith ended. Everything was set up in such a way that it would take decades to rebuild The Resistance movement against The First Order, much like how RotS did with the Jedi getting wiped out and the Galactic Empire taking over. There was no room to branch out or grow in any timely manner compared to the middle parts of the other movies in the trilogy.
2. If I was a living member of The Resistance at the end of TLJ I would be anything but happy. I'd probably be in the corner either in total disbelief or bawling my eyes out because of the death of so many of my friends and comrades and The Resistance in general.
3. Because you can't take down an entire intergalactic power that controls all trade and supply routes and who have wiped out all of your allies with a single Corelian Freighter.
4. It wasn't a battle of wits, it was a battle of wills. 2 totally different thing.
5. Yes, that is correct.
6. I mean that there's no conceivable way you could move forward with the trilogy without a massive time-skip of at least 10 years minimum. Again, it was the endpoint of the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie.
7. It's cute how you attempt to use this argument in spite of the fact that I've also railed against JJ's Money Mystery Box writing philosophy. I agree with you that Mystery Boxes are lazy and worthless story wise.
8. So it ended the trilogy? That's for agreeing with me. Was that so hard?
9. There is not.
10. A good Star Wars movie also doesn't need "Expectations SUBVERRTED!!1!1" thrown up on the screen very 2-5 minutes or so.

Ugh, I'm tired of that meme, can we just called Expectation Subversion what it really is? Shock Factor. You know, like shitty jump scares in low class horror movies or gross out humor in comedy's that aren't funny. It's a writing crutch that's arguably just as bad as JJ's Money Mystery Box.

[The Huskar Social Union]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

[Andsed]

So what exactly was the timeskip between episode 8 and 9. Because at the end of 8 we see that the resistance has pretty much been annihilated and realistically they could not do anything to the First Order. Yet in 9 they have a small fleet at their disposal. Also yeah I think Kylo
should have died when Rey stabbed him. Reys power was really the most annoying part of the movie for me. Like she should not have been able to do so much of the shit she did.

[The Huskar Social Union]

So what exactly was the timeskip between episode 8 and 9. Because at the end of 8 we see that the resistance has pretty much been annihilated and realistically they could not do anything to the First Order. Yet in 9 they have a small fleet at their disposal. Also yeah I think Kylo
should have died when Rey stabbed him. Reys power was really the most annoying part of the movie for me. Like she should not have been able to do so much of the shit she did.

I think it was a year, tho im not sure where i actually picked that up lol so might not be true

Also it seems that Lukes sacrifice meant absolutely fucking nothing in TLJ because once again the resistance is fucking tiny, i mean they made a show of people talking about his sacrifice at the end of that movie, with the children on Canto Bight at some point in the future from the battle of crait talking about his sacrifice, then lol nope fuck you, 20 fighters and a corvette a year or two later whilst the First Order has blized the galaxy and took everything over, no one bothered to help.

Also yeah she was absurdly overpowered in this movie

[Jack Thomas Lang]

You know what would have been cool? If the whole reveal that Rey was a nobody wasn't just a fucking meta subversion meant to shock the audience. It plays almost absolutely no role in the film. Rey has a cry face when Kylo Ren tells her, only she already knows it, and then next scene we see her she's whooping in the Millenium Falcon and lifting a shitton of rocks like it's no big deal.

Compare this to Luke when he finds out Darth Vader is his father. That information, it hurts him. It makes him think. He's still the nice guy Luke, but he's quieter and more contemplative at the end of the film.

[New haven america]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Fine then, bring it on Huskar.

Bring it on.

[New haven america]

So what exactly was the timeskip between episode 8 and 9. Because at the end of 8 we see that the resistance has pretty much been annihilated and realistically they could not do anything to the First Order. Yet in 9 they have a small fleet at their disposal. Also yeah I think Kylo
should have died when Rey stabbed him. Reys power was really the most annoying part of the movie for me. Like she should not have been able to do so much of the shit she did.

~1 year

[The Huskar Social Union]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Fine then, bring it on Huskar.

Bring it on.

[New haven america]

Fine then, bring it on Huskar.

Bring it on.

[The Huskar Social Union]

*screaming about sand*

[New haven america]

*screaming about sand*

[The Huskar Social Union]

*screaming about sand*

Alright no more, not really in the mood for a warning for spamming.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I heard the planet at the start of Rise of Skywalker, where kylo is killing those random dudes is meant to be Mustafar, is that true or was someone bullshitting me?

Not korriban, mustafar