But It Was So Artistically Done: THE STAR WARS THREAD

[Astrolinium]

(Image)

Her character was completely useless. They could have just used Admiral Ackbar. At least then he would have had the death he deserved instead of being killed in some shitty, off-screen fashion.

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

[Kramania]

Her character was completely useless. They could have just used Admiral Ackbar. At least then he would have had the death he deserved instead of being killed in some shitty, off-screen fashion.

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

True. Honestly I'm mostly pissed that they killed Admiral Ackbar and didn't have the dignity to do his death justice. He didn't even need to be killed at all. He could have been on Mon Cala trying to protect his people from the First Order or something.

[Bearon]

Her character was completely useless. They could have just used Admiral Ackbar. At least then he would have had the death he deserved instead of being killed in some shitty, off-screen fashion.

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

The thing is, nobody wanted the Finn/Rose plot anyways. Even people who've proclaimed their love for this movie have said their least favorite part of the movie was the casino world.

[Bearon]

https://imgur.com/a/wYdIl

This might me canon. Not sure though, sent a tweet at members of the story group to confirm.

....Is this medichlorian count or something?

Yeah but it's been confirmed to be a goof on the part of some European book publishing company who ended up printing Supershadow fanfiction as actual licensed material. xD

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

True. Honestly I'm mostly pissed that they killed Admiral Ackbar and didn't have the dignity to do his death justice. He didn't even need to be killed at all. He could have been on Mon Cala trying to protect his people from the First Order or something.

Makes thematic sense to kill him. Letting the past go and all that. Anyway, the actor's dead; there's not a lot they can do with him.

[Alekseandrea]

Look, this is a case where you're better safe than sorry.

Yes, Rose stopped deserters, but those weren't the only escape pods and she's gone for half the movie.
Assuming that no deserters will escape is foolish.

Trusting on the cooperation of your enemies isn't that good an idea.

And Poe didn't need to know. What's the point of using a need-to-know policy when you're going to tell people who have more screentime than you and don't need to know, simply because they have more screentime?

That's nepotism, that is.
Also, Leia KNOWS and TRUSTS Poe.

Holdo knows nor trusts Poe.
Why does Holdo need to trust Poe right away?
Poe doesn't trust Holdo either, but apperantly having more screentime makes up for that.

Apparently Holdo was a close personal friend to Leia yet she didn't know Poe was trustworthy? :/

When a guy just ignored orders, leading to the destruction of your bomber fleet, the words “Oh, yeah. Dameron is trustworthy.” would seem hollow to most.

Besides, if the topic was ever Poe, it would have been equally likely be complaints about his behaviour.

[Alvecia]

Her character was completely useless. They could have just used Admiral Ackbar. At least then he would have had the death he deserved instead of being killed in some shitty, off-screen fashion.

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

The voice actor for Ackbar died last year as well, so that may have played into it.

[Kramania]

True. Honestly I'm mostly pissed that they killed Admiral Ackbar and didn't have the dignity to do his death justice. He didn't even need to be killed at all. He could have been on Mon Cala trying to protect his people from the First Order or something.

Makes thematic sense to kill him. Letting the past go and all that. Anyway, the actor's dead; there's not a lot they can do with him.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

[Alvecia]

Makes thematic sense to kill him. Letting the past go and all that. Anyway, the actor's dead; there's not a lot they can do with him.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Be a different voice though. Either he'd have to say no lines, or you'd get people complaining that he sounded different. Either way it'd just be something else for people to complain about

[Kramania]

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Be a different voice though. Either he'd have to say no lines, or you'd get people complaining that he sounded different. Either way it'd just be something else for people to complain about

Yeah, well, now people are complaining that he was killed off and in a shitty manner so look how that turned out.

[Alvecia]

Be a different voice though. Either he'd have to say no lines, or you'd get people complaining that he sounded different. Either way it'd just be something else for people to complain about

Yeah, well, now people are complaining that he was killed off and in a shitty manner so look how that turned out.

No different to how it would have been otherwise, is my point. It's a sad state of affairs and they probably did as well as they could given the circumstances.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Makes thematic sense to kill him. Letting the past go and all that. Anyway, the actor's dead; there's not a lot they can do with him.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Chewbacca's voice acting is basically just noises. And the actor isn't dead, so it doesn't feel as disrespectful.

[Astrolinium]

Ackbar makes no sense for that plot. He's an established character whom Poe presumably knows and trusts and, more importantly, whom the audience trusts. The movie's main plot only works if the audience doesn't trust the authority figure either.

The thing is, nobody wanted the Finn/Rose plot anyways. Even people who've proclaimed their love for this movie have said their least favorite part of the movie was the casino world.

Not the plot we're talking about.

Makes thematic sense to kill him. Letting the past go and all that. Anyway, the actor's dead; there's not a lot they can do with him.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

[Bearon]

Apparently Holdo was a close personal friend to Leia yet she didn't know Poe was trustworthy? :/

When a guy just ignored orders, leading to the destruction of your bomber fleet, the words “Oh, yeah. Dameron is trustworthy.” would seem hollow to most.

Besides, if the topic was ever Poe, it would have been equally likely be complaints about his behaviour.

He's known as the best pilot in the Resistance and destroyed a fleet killing superweapon at the cost of 5 bombers that they know were destroyed by a chain reaction. Your insinuation that she would have suspected him of being a traitor is unfounded.

You just stated that you believed Leia had a relationship with him similar to that of a family member. Pretty sure Holdo is aware of who Dameron is given his reputation and that he can be trusted if she is also a close personal friend of Leia's.

[Bearon]

The thing is, nobody wanted the Finn/Rose plot anyways. Even people who've proclaimed their love for this movie have said their least favorite part of the movie was the casino world.

Not the plot we're talking about.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

Which plot are you talking about?

Because Chewbacca is useless and has no reason to exist at this point.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Not the plot we're talking about.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

Which plot are you talking about?

Because Chewbacca is useless and has no reason to exist at this point.

He does bring the Falcon back to get Rey after the throne room bit, which sure, isn't much, but that's really Chewbacca's MO. He's never had a significant character arc (probably because there's only so much you can do with a character that can't talk); he shoots a few people, sits in the Falcon with Han, does some minor thing that anyone could have done, like hijack an AT-ST or help pull Lando out the Sarlacc pit. He's never been a story-integral character.

[Alekseandrea]

When a guy just ignored orders, leading to the destruction of your bomber fleet, the words “Oh, yeah. Dameron is trustworthy.” would seem hollow to most.

Besides, if the topic was ever Poe, it would have been equally likely be complaints about his behaviour.

He's known as the best pilot in the Resistance and destroyed a fleet killing superweapon at the cost of 5 bombers that they know were destroyed by a chain reaction. Your insinuation that she would have suspected him of being a traitor is unfounded.

You just stated that you believed Leia had a relationship with him similar to that of a family member. Pretty sure Holdo is aware of who Dameron is given his reputation and that he can be trusted if she is also a close personal friend of Leia's.

He destroyed the dreadnought by disobeying direct orders. And the “victory” was phyric. The resistance lost tons of bombers, fighters AND it did little to change the outcome. The fleet would simply stayed out of the range of the dreadnought. Making the situation exactly the same but with an extra ship.
Poe is responsible for not disengaging.
Thus he is responsible for the loss of the bombers.

I don’t insinuate that he is a traitor, I simply wish to state that being a special snowflake hero isn’t enough reason to be treated differently than everybody else.

Sure, Holdo has heard of him.
That doesn’t mean she knows knows him.

What she probably knows is that he’s a good pilot who has problems with authority. And that he’s a friend of Leia.

And she should have told him because he’s a friend of Leia’s?
Poe didn’t need to know.

Few people knew of the plan. Why is Poe more worthy to know than the others who didn’t knew the plan? Nepotism? Because the others didn’t crash 2 plans like the hindenburg? Because he has a problem with authority? Because he isn’t a traitor like every non-deserter? Because he got all the bombers shot?

[Astrolinium]

Not the plot we're talking about.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

Which plot are you talking about?

Because Chewbacca is useless and has no reason to exist at this point.

The plot taking place on the Resistance cruiser. The discussion was about whether Ackbar would have been a reasonable replacement for Holdo, which he would not have been, because Poe's actions hinge on not trusting Holdo - for that to work, the audience also has to not trust the character he is disobeying.

[Kramania]

The thing is, nobody wanted the Finn/Rose plot anyways. Even people who've proclaimed their love for this movie have said their least favorite part of the movie was the casino world.

Not the plot we're talking about.

If that's the case then why not kill Chewbacca? Also he's a humanoid space squid. They could slap his costume on someone else.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

[region]He represents the past. Is that not the line of resoning?[/region]

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Not the plot we're talking about.

Why kill Chewbacca, though?

[region]He represents the past. Is that not the line of resoning?[/region]

What you're doing there is a petty sort of extrapolation where you take the original point that

Ackbar's death fit nicely with the film's themes

to do a childish "well, why don't you just kill everyone off, nuh, nuh, nuh-nuh?"

[Maichuko]

I finally watched the new movie. I really liked it even space Vegas.

[Bearon]

Which plot are you talking about?

Because Chewbacca is useless and has no reason to exist at this point.

The plot taking place on the Resistance cruiser.

And what plot is that?

Dameron attempting a mutiny and then getting blasted into a wall by Leia?

That doesn't qualify as a "plotline" it's just a scene. And an unnecessary one at that.

[Bearon]

He's known as the best pilot in the Resistance and destroyed a fleet killing superweapon at the cost of 5 bombers that they know were destroyed by a chain reaction. Your insinuation that she would have suspected him of being a traitor is unfounded.

You just stated that you believed Leia had a relationship with him similar to that of a family member. Pretty sure Holdo is aware of who Dameron is given his reputation and that he can be trusted if she is also a close personal friend of Leia's.

He destroyed the dreadnought by disobeying direct orders. And the “victory” was phyric. The resistance lost tons of bombers, fighters AND it did little to change the outcome. The fleet would simply stayed out of the range of the dreadnought. Making the situation exactly the same but with an extra ship.
Poe is responsible for not disengaging.
Thus he is responsible for the loss of the bombers.

I don’t insinuate that he is a traitor, I simply wish to state that being a special snowflake hero isn’t enough reason to be treated differently than everybody else.

Sure, Holdo has heard of him.
That doesn’t mean she knows knows him.

What she probably knows is that he’s a good pilot who has problems with authority. And that he’s a friend of Leia.

And she should have told him because he’s a friend of Leia’s?
Poe didn’t need to know.

Few people knew of the plan. Why is Poe more worthy to know than the others who didn’t knew the plan? Nepotism? Because the others didn’t crash 2 plans like the hindenburg? Because he has a problem with authority? Because he isn’t a traitor like every non-deserter? Because he got all the bombers shot?

"Tons" being 5 slow moving bombers that needed to be directly over their target to actually hit it and a few fighters.

Did you not hear the part where it's called a "fleet killer?" Poe even states the reason he attempted to destroy it was because they'd "never have a better opportunity."

Sure. He's also responsible for the destruction of an enemy weapon which I'd argue is more useful for the First Order then those less then a dozen fighter/bombers were for the Resistance.

It's enough reason to be told the plan so that you can instill confidence in your command. Unless you're saying you don't believe she told the rest of the crew anything either would would just make her an utter retard and incompetent commander. I didn't assume that myself because I thought that would be overly harsh but if you want to...

Key phrase there being "friend of Leia." I.E. trustworthy. That is, unless we're assuming she didn't tell anybody about the plan, the possibility of which I've addressed above.

I disagree completely. He may not have literally "needed" to know but he and the rest of the crew should have been informed because it would have raised their morale and instilled confidence in Holdo's command. Keeping that information from them serves literally no purpose and negatively harms her goal since it not only has people like Poe carrying out mutinies but people like Finn attempting to abandon the fleet.

Maybe because he's a high ranking officer underneath her command who is being left in the dark for literally no reason?

[Bearon]

[region]He represents the past. Is that not the line of resoning?[/region]

What you're doing there is a petty sort of extrapolation where you take the original point that

Ackbar's death fit nicely with the film's themes

to do a childish "well, why don't you just kill everyone off, nuh, nuh, nuh-nuh?"

No, it's telling you that your line of reasoning for things that happened to one character isn't consistent because you're hypocritical and groping for any reason to defend this trash movie.

[Astrolinium]

The plot taking place on the Resistance cruiser.

And what plot is that?

Dameron attempting a mutiny and then getting blasted into a wall by Leia?

That doesn't qualify as a "plotline" it's just a scene. And an unnecessary one at that.

You're being obtuse on purpose, yeah? Gotta be. Otherwise, I can't actually say what I think of your behavior or you would be justified in reporting me to the mods for having said it.

The plot in which Holdo refuses to yield to an uppity subordinate's request to know sensitive information info after he loses most of an entire squadron and then calls her a coward and traitor, culminating in her staying on the ship as her plan goes into action and then ramming Snoke's ship at lightspeed to save what remains of the Resistance. That is an entire plot, buddy.