But It Was So Artistically Done: THE STAR WARS THREAD

[Nocturnalis]

Maybe because he was a Sith Lord and they knew that he would never give up his power...

Being a Sith Lord is not illegal, and it is not the Jedi's place to decide who does or does not get to be Supreme Chancellor. The Jedi had zero proof that Palpatine had engineered the Clone Wars, only that he was a Sith; if so, then they are arresting him on purely religious reasons. Again, it is not the Jedi's place to decide who gets to be Supreme Chancellor, that's the Senate's responsibility. Palpatine's declaration that he "[is] the Senate" echoes this; arresting the Chancellor with no valid reason to do so equates to overthrowing the Senate. The only reason the Jedi have to arrest the Chancellor is because he is a Sith; neither the Jedi Order, the Separatist leadership, nor the galaxy as a whole knew that Palpatine was actually Sidious (Dooku being the only exception, and he's dead by the time the Jedi attempt their coup). If the Jedi could actually prove that Palpatine was the one behind everything, then they could be rid of him legally, but they don't have a single shred of evidence.

Had the Jedi managed to arrest or kill the Chancellor, it would have looked like a military coup to the average Citizen and Senator. And right near the end of the Clone Wars, to boot! Either that would have resulted in more worlds joining the Separatists (enough to maybe overthrow the new Jedi junta), or a galaxy-wide purging of the Jedi at the hands of the Grand Army (ultimately loyal to the Republic itself, not the Jedi). Alive or dead, Sidious wins.

Maybe because he was a Sith Lord and they knew that he would never give up his power...

The Jedi arrested someone so they could be given a trial. Mace Windu only tried to kill Palpatine after he resisted. Violently.

The Jedi presumed to act in "the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic" despite not having the powers or authorization to do so. Neither the Senate nor the Security Council approved of removing the Chancellor from office ('Order 65'), so the Jedi's actions were unilateral and without legal basis. The Jedi pulled killing weapons on the Supreme Chancellor, and he defended himself accordingly. Mace Windu then fought Palps, disarmed him, and had him at his mercy. The Jedi Master would have killed the disarmed, practically defenceless Chancellor had Vader not intervened - and considering the Jedi's track record in dealing with Sith, it's unlikely the Chancellor would have made it to court even if he did surrender. Windu realized, quite rightly, that the Senate would not go along with the Jedi's planned removal of the Chancellor, although he put it in terms of the Chancellor "having control of the Senate and the courts" rather than the illegality of his actions.

This is what police do in real life. Unless you want to go full libertarian and suggest the law be nothing more than people on their front porches with shotguns, they didn’t do anything wrong.

Which is ironically what you're advocating here. The Jedi are not the Republic's police force*, although they regularly assisted the proper legal authorities in investigations. The Jedi were ultimately peacekeepers, solving disputes between rival systems and factions within the Republic at the behest of the Chancellor and Senate, and then as Generals within the Grand Army of the Republic (again at the behest of the Chancellor and Senate). To argue that the Jedi were acting within the law when they attempted to overthrow the Chancellor is nothing but pure folly.

*="The Jedi can't get involved. This is a job for the local police." (Anakin Skywalker, The Clone Wars S3E4)

[New haven america]

Maybe because he was a Sith Lord and they knew that he would never give up his power...

Being a Sith Lord is not illegal

I mean, if you don't your country to be an authoritarian and autocratic hellhole, it kinda is. (See: The Galactic Empire)

[Alekseandrea]

I dissagree.

Holdo was competent.

The morale was already ruined and beyond recovery for the duration of the movie.
When you're screwed and everyone knows you are, only a fool would waste time and energy on boosting the morale. Finding a way out should be the top priority.
It was Holdo's top priority.

Holdo was the next in the chain of command. SO OF COURSE everyone was expected to obey her.
Disobeying because she dresses wrong is no valid reason for insubordination.

The handing information out on a need-to-know basis. Is justified. An admiral doesn't have the time to explain everything to explain everything to random resistance members who come storming on the bridge.

It also prevents deserters from ratting out the plan to the first order. Since they don't know it. And when you need personel on catch-deserters duty, plans leaking is very likely.

Poe didn't need to know. There were no fighters left. The fighters and Poe weren't involved in the plan. And he was recently demoted.

Holdo's plan was solid AND would have worked if Poe hadn't interfered.
Thanks to Poe vital information was leaked to the first order.

Poe hardly had a plan. It was an improvised failure.
His plan required loads of luck. They weren't lucky. His plan was too reliant on dumb luck.

While Holdo is responsible, Poe is the one who f*cked up. His insubordination made a bad situation worse. All because he didn't trust Leia to pick her vice-admiral wisely and because he wanted to play the hero.

He ignored the chain of command, questioned Leia's, his superior, judgement twice (The retreat and Holdo's appointment), is guilty of insubordination AND to add insult to injury, his plan not only failed, but ruined the main plan.

THAT is the description if a person that you execute as an example to the men. Normally I find executing your men distasteful, but if Poe Dameron was under my command I'd gladly make an exception.

Holdo was incompetent and clearly not ready to command what was left of the Resistance, which is admittedly a huge responsibility.

Disobeying because she ostensibly had no idea what to do aside from get everyone killed is plenty justification for insubordination. Blind obedience is the Empire's thing; the Rebels and Resistance follow, not obey. Holdo proved to at least a significant chunk of her crew that she was unfit for leadership. Whether or not that was the case is debatable, but it's ultimately why Poe manages to get so many to mutiny against her.

Holdo's plan was solid and would have worked, I agree with that. The problem was she didn't tell anyone about it. She didn't even have to tell everyone, just Poe would have sufficed since he ultimately started the mutiny and all (and he's a known maverick, being in the loop would have calmed him down), and I don't think Poe is about to defect to the First Order any time soon. Demoted for losing most of the Resistance's starfighter corps to destroy a ship that was about to destroy the Resistance flagship, sure, but still the Resistance's best remaining pilot and one that earned the respect of everyone on board, which is why so many of the ship's crew follow him instead of Holdo.

Executing Poe would just lead to not only losing your best starfighter pilot, but would probably lead many to leave the Resistance altogether. Good luck with that. As an aside, there were pilots and fighters left (some pilots are part of the mutiny, and the remaining starfighters are destroyed by Kylo Ren before they could even launch), and Poe himself could not possibly be at fault for the destruction of the remaining starfighters (including his own X-Wing) since no one expected the First Order to track the Resistance through hyperspace. They might have had some starfighters left if Poe had not charged the dreadnought, but then again they might have lost the flagship because that dreadnought was already aiming its cannons (the ones that just destroyed the base on D'Qar) at it.

In all honesty, this is really one weakness of the film. Plots that can be solved simply by a minute of proper communication between characters is contrived as all hell. Doubly so in a military situation such as the one in this film, where the most basic skill required at all levels is communication. Holdo didn't even have to tell Poe directly, because there's a thing called chain of command. Holdo tells her under-officers the plan, who then relay the information further and further down the chain, each time only telling the lesser ranks (like Poe) what they need to know. Even something as simple as "There is a plan, we just can't give all the information because of [X reason]" would most likely have sufficed to keep Poe from doing anything rash.

Holdo was incompetent and clearly not ready to command what was left of the Resistance, which is admittedly a huge responsibility.

Few things indicate she actually is. Her clothing and her lack of communication are apparently enough to justify mutiny. Leia is lucky that she dresses better.

Holdo's plan was solid and would have worked, I agree with that. The problem was she didn't tell anyone about it. She didn't even have to tell everyone, just Poe would have sufficed since he ultimately started the mutiny and all (and he's a known maverick, being in the loop would have calmed him down), and I don't think Poe is about to defect to the First Order any time soon. Demoted for losing most of the Resistance's starfighter corps to destroy a ship that was about to destroy the Resistance flagship, sure, but still the Resistance's best remaining pilot and one that earned the respect of everyone on board, which is why so many of the ship's crew follow him instead of Holdo.

So he should be treated like he's more/better than the average soldier, because he doesn't think things through, is popular AND he commited mutiny?

In all honesty, this is really one weakness of the film. Plots that can be solved simply by a minute of proper communication between characters is contrived as all hell. Doubly so in a military situation such as the one in this film, where the most basic skill required at all levels is communication. Holdo didn't even have to tell Poe directly, because there's a thing called chain of command. Holdo tells her under-officers the plan, who then relay the information further and further down the chain, each time only telling the lesser ranks (like Poe) what they need to know. Even something as simple as "There is a plan, we just can't give all the information because of [X reason]" would most likely have sufficed to keep Poe from doing anything rash.

If you tell people you have a plan and one of them deserts an gets captured, the first order will be able to know there is a plan.
I doubt that Hux is so dim that he wouldn't realise that "keeping your ships at a distance until fuel runs out" isn't much of a plan.

So how would the first order gain more information over said plan? They would start scanning for everything. Which would mean that the ships probably won't sneak away unseen.

Holdo wasn't incompetent, but she was unnecessarily stupid. Her plan was sound, leave the cruiser as bait while the transports make it to Crait where the Resistance can lay low for a while. Essentially faking the death of the Resistance, which would be amazing for their cause.

...But she refused to let anyone in on the plan. For God knows what reason except plot.

So deserters couldn't tell it to the first order. The less people knew, the better the chances of the plan working. If you're plan hinges on not being found out, it's a very reasonable action. People would still have deserted if they heard about the plan. Knowing a plan and believing it will work are 2 different things.

[Conserative Morality]

"Where are you from?"

"Nowhere."

"No one's from nowhere."

"Jakku."

Goddammit that's such a perfect opportunity for bonding between them since Tatooine is also 100% nowhere but instead it just ends at a quip. They were both just kids looking for escape and I can't do this fuck there is nothing left in my soul except ash

[The Batavia]

"Where are you from?"

"Nowhere."

"No one's from nowhere."

"Jakku."

Goddammit that's such a perfect opportunity for bonding between them since Tatooine is also 100% nowhere but instead it just ends at a quip. They were both just kids looking for escape and I can't do this fuck there is nothing left in my soul except ash

Well, Luke became a grumpy grandpa, after all.

[Tarsonis]

Holdo was incompetent and clearly not ready to command what was left of the Resistance, which is admittedly a huge responsibility.

Disobeying because she ostensibly had no idea what to do aside from get everyone killed is plenty justification for insubordination. Blind obedience is the Empire's thing; the Rebels and Resistance follow, not obey. Holdo proved to at least a significant chunk of her crew that she was unfit for leadership. Whether or not that was the case is debatable, but it's ultimately why Poe manages to get so many to mutiny against her.

Holdo's plan was solid and would have worked, I agree with that. The problem was she didn't tell anyone about it. She didn't even have to tell everyone, just Poe would have sufficed since he ultimately started the mutiny and all (and he's a known maverick, being in the loop would have calmed him down), and I don't think Poe is about to defect to the First Order any time soon. Demoted for losing most of the Resistance's starfighter corps to destroy a ship that was about to destroy the Resistance flagship, sure, but still the Resistance's best remaining pilot and one that earned the respect of everyone on board, which is why so many of the ship's crew follow him instead of Holdo.

Executing Poe would just lead to not only losing your best starfighter pilot, but would probably lead many to leave the Resistance altogether. Good luck with that. As an aside, there were pilots and fighters left (some pilots are part of the mutiny, and the remaining starfighters are destroyed by Kylo Ren before they could even launch), and Poe himself could not possibly be at fault for the destruction of the remaining starfighters (including his own X-Wing) since no one expected the First Order to track the Resistance through hyperspace. They might have had some starfighters left if Poe had not charged the dreadnought, but then again they might have lost the flagship because that dreadnought was already aiming its cannons (the ones that just destroyed the base on D'Qar) at it.

In all honesty, this is really one weakness of the film. Plots that can be solved simply by a minute of proper communication between characters is contrived as all hell. Doubly so in a military situation such as the one in this film, where the most basic skill required at all levels is communication. Holdo didn't even have to tell Poe directly, because there's a thing called chain of command. Holdo tells her under-officers the plan, who then relay the information further and further down the chain, each time only telling the lesser ranks (like Poe) what they need to know. Even something as simple as "There is a plan, we just can't give all the information because of [X reason]" would most likely have sufficed to keep Poe from doing anything rash.

Holdo was incompetent and clearly not ready to command what was left of the Resistance, which is admittedly a huge responsibility.

Few things indicate she actually is. Her clothing and her lack of communication are apparently enough to justify mutiny. Leia is lucky that she dresses better.

Holdo's plan was solid and would have worked, I agree with that. The problem was she didn't tell anyone about it. She didn't even have to tell everyone, just Poe would have sufficed since he ultimately started the mutiny and all (and he's a known maverick, being in the loop would have calmed him down), and I don't think Poe is about to defect to the First Order any time soon. Demoted for losing most of the Resistance's starfighter corps to destroy a ship that was about to destroy the Resistance flagship, sure, but still the Resistance's best remaining pilot and one that earned the respect of everyone on board, which is why so many of the ship's crew follow him instead of Holdo.

So he should be treated like he's more/better than the average soldier, because he doesn't think things through, is popular AND he commited mutiny?

In all honesty, this is really one weakness of the film. Plots that can be solved simply by a minute of proper communication between characters is contrived as all hell. Doubly so in a military situation such as the one in this film, where the most basic skill required at all levels is communication. Holdo didn't even have to tell Poe directly, because there's a thing called chain of command. Holdo tells her under-officers the plan, who then relay the information further and further down the chain, each time only telling the lesser ranks (like Poe) what they need to know. Even something as simple as "There is a plan, we just can't give all the information because of [X reason]" would most likely have sufficed to keep Poe from doing anything rash.

If you tell people you have a plan and one of them deserts an gets captured, the first order will be able to know there is a plan.
I doubt that Hux is so dim that he wouldn't realise that "keeping your ships at a distance until fuel runs out" isn't much of a plan.

So how would the first order gain more information over said plan? They would start scanning for everything. Which would mean that the ships probably won't sneak away unseen.

Holdo wasn't incompetent, but she was unnecessarily stupid. Her plan was sound, leave the cruiser as bait while the transports make it to Crait where the Resistance can lay low for a while. Essentially faking the death of the Resistance, which would be amazing for their cause.

...But she refused to let anyone in on the plan. For God knows what reason except plot.

So deserters couldn't tell it to the first order. The less people knew, the better the chances of the plan working. If you're plan hinges on not being found out, it's a very reasonable action. People would still have deserted if they heard about the plan. Knowing a plan and believing it will work are 2 different things.

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Few things indicate she actually is. Her clothing and her lack of communication are apparently enough to justify mutiny. Leia is lucky that she dresses better.



So he should be treated like he's more/better than the average soldier, because he doesn't think things through, is popular AND he commited mutiny?




If you tell people you have a plan and one of them deserts an gets captured, the first order will be able to know there is a plan.
I doubt that Hux is so dim that he wouldn't realise that "keeping your ships at a distance until fuel runs out" isn't much of a plan.

So how would the first order gain more information over said plan? They would start scanning for everything. Which would mean that the ships probably won't sneak away unseen.

So deserters couldn't tell it to the first order. The less people knew, the better the chances of the plan working. If you're plan hinges on not being found out, it's a very reasonable action. People would still have deserted if they heard about the plan. Knowing a plan and believing it will work are 2 different things.

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

>acknowledge there'd been attempts at desertion
>assert secrecy is unreasonable

Pick one.

[Bearon]

Few things indicate she actually is. Her clothing and her lack of communication are apparently enough to justify mutiny. Leia is lucky that she dresses better.



So he should be treated like he's more/better than the average soldier, because he doesn't think things through, is popular AND he commited mutiny?




If you tell people you have a plan and one of them deserts an gets captured, the first order will be able to know there is a plan.
I doubt that Hux is so dim that he wouldn't realise that "keeping your ships at a distance until fuel runs out" isn't much of a plan.

So how would the first order gain more information over said plan? They would start scanning for everything. Which would mean that the ships probably won't sneak away unseen.

So deserters couldn't tell it to the first order. The less people knew, the better the chances of the plan working. If you're plan hinges on not being found out, it's a very reasonable action. People would still have deserted if they heard about the plan. Knowing a plan and believing it will work are 2 different things.

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

Not to mention Leia had no qualms about telling Poe once she'd been revived.

[Bearon]

Pretty sure Phasma's going to be in the next movie given they wrote a whole novel about her. Then again, that might have just been a ploy to sell more merchandise. Nothing surprises me with Disney anymore.

[The Batavia]

Pretty sure Phasma's going to be in the next movie given they wrote a whole novel about her. Then again, that might have just been a ploy to sell more merchandise. Nothing surprises me with Disney anymore.

Didn't she die tho?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Pretty sure Phasma's going to be in the next movie given they wrote a whole novel about her. Then again, that might have just been a ploy to sell more merchandise. Nothing surprises me with Disney anymore.

Lucas, of course, was a true artist who never tried to make money off of Star Wars.

[Bearon]

Pretty sure Phasma's going to be in the next movie given they wrote a whole novel about her. Then again, that might have just been a ploy to sell more merchandise. Nothing surprises me with Disney anymore.

Lucas, of course, was a true artist who never tried to make money off of Star Wars.

Sorry, what does that have to do with my statement?

[Salus Maior]

Lucas, of course, was a true artist who never tried to make money off of Star Wars.

Sorry, what does that have to do with my statement?

Lucas was also a money-whore.

[Bearon]

Sorry, what does that have to do with my statement?

Lucas was also a money-whore.

Sure. He also cared about making works he felt could be apart of the larger SW universe otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to spend tens of millions he never got back making TCW.

[New haven america]

Sorry, what does that have to do with my statement?

Lucas was also a money-whore.

Why do you guys feel the need to defend Disney?

Lucas is one man, Disney is a multibillion dollar multinational media conglomerate who is on a war path in an attempted to absorb any and every IP and company that it feels like until it basically rules the media world.

They've already made it clear that they only care about money, and have been whoring out Star Wars much more than Lucas could ever dream of. At least Lucas cared about the franchise, Disney only cares about how much money the next 6 movies, tv series, and related merchandise will get them. Remember: They're the ones who gave Battlefront to EA.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Lucas was also a money-whore.

Why do you guys feel the need to defend Disney?

Lucas is one man, Disney is a multibillion dollar multinational media conglomerate who is on a war path in an attempted to absorb any and every IP and company that it feels like until it basically rules the media world.

They've already made it clear that they only care about money, and have been whoring out Star Wars much more than Lucas could ever dream of. At least Lucas cared about the franchise, Disney only cares about how much money the next 6 movies, tv series, and related merchandise will get them.

Finally! Someone else agrees with me. Disney is an evil mega corporation. At least George Lucas cared about the Star Wars franchise. Disney just wants money.

[The Flutterlands]

Lucas was also a money-whore.

Why do you guys feel the need to defend Disney?

Lucas is one man, Disney is a multibillion dollar multinational media conglomerate who is on a war path in an attempted to absorb any and every IP and company that it feels like until it basically rules the media world.

They've already made it clear that they only care about money, and have been whoring out Star Wars much more than Lucas could ever dream of. At least Lucas cared about the franchise, Disney only cares about how much money the next 6 movies, tv series, and related merchandise will get them. Remember: They're the ones who gave Battlefront to EA.

Yeah Lucas cared enough about the franchise to know when to stop making films. If he was still in charge we probably get the rest of the Clone Wars and other cool stuff... The sequel films feel more disconnected from the saga than people say about the prequels. At least you can make a narrative about the Tragedy of Darth Vader with the two initial trilogies. Not that I don't like the sequels, but they feel more like an epilogue than an actual continuation...

[Pax Nerdvana]

Why do you guys feel the need to defend Disney?

Lucas is one man, Disney is a multibillion dollar multinational media conglomerate who is on a war path in an attempted to absorb any and every IP and company that it feels like until it basically rules the media world.

They've already made it clear that they only care about money, and have been whoring out Star Wars much more than Lucas could ever dream of. At least Lucas cared about the franchise, Disney only cares about how much money the next 6 movies, tv series, and related merchandise will get them. Remember: They're the ones who gave Battlefront to EA.

Yeah Lucas cared enough about the franchise to know when to stop making films. If he was still in charge we probably get the rest of the Clone Wars and other cool stuff... The sequel films feel more disconnected from the saga than people say about the prequels. At least you can make a narrative about the Tragedy of Darth Vader with the two initial trilogies. Not that I don't like the sequels, but they feel more like an epilogue than an actual continuation...

I haven't seen TLJ yet, but TFA felt like a repeat of the OT. And yeah, with Lucas, we probably would've gotten some pretty cool stuff, and maybe not Rebels.

[Pontous]

"Where are you from?"

"Nowhere."

"No one's from nowhere."

"Jakku."

Goddammit that's such a perfect opportunity for bonding between them since Tatooine is also 100% nowhere but instead it just ends at a quip. They were both just kids looking for escape and I can't do this fuck there is nothing left in my soul except ash

I wouldn't say Tatooine is nowhere, considering it seems to be the home base of one of the Outer Rim's foremost crime lords. Also, to me, bonding over similar beginnings feels more forced than a quip. I'm biased though, because I liked that little exchange.

[New haven america]

Yeah Lucas cared enough about the franchise to know when to stop making films. If he was still in charge we probably get the rest of the Clone Wars and other cool stuff... The sequel films feel more disconnected from the saga than people say about the prequels. At least you can make a narrative about the Tragedy of Darth Vader with the two initial trilogies. Not that I don't like the sequels, but they feel more like an epilogue than an actual continuation...

but TFA felt like a repeat of the OT.

Because it was, like literally, Lucas said that he created this story template with tons of ideas that he'd been thinking of ever since the end of the OT, and Disney said "No, we want to go more retro."

I know I've linked this video a few times, but he had a lot of interesting ideas.

[Pax Nerdvana]

but TFA felt like a repeat of the OT.

Because it was, like literally, Lucas said that he created this story temple with tons of ideas that he'd been thinking of ever since the end of the OT, and Disney said "No, we want to go more retro."

I know I've linked this video a few times, but he had a lot of interesting ideas.

Disney should've listened to Lucas. But no, and now we're stuck with TFA, which is basically the OT in one movie.

[Gibberan]

Because it was, like literally, Lucas said that he created this story temple with tons of ideas that he'd been thinking of ever since the end of the OT, and Disney said "No, we want to go more retro."

I know I've linked this video a few times, but he had a lot of interesting ideas.

Disney should've listened to Lucas. But no, and now we're stuck with TFA, which is basically the OT in one movie.

You guys can call Disney all the names you want, and most of them are at least partially true. But don't pretend like they don't listen to fans or that they don't care about the franchise. As a business, their end goal is ultimately money, yes, but they are smart enough to understand they get the most money when they make quality productions. In my opinion, they have (barring a few gripes, TFA being one of them) more or less succeeded in this respect.

Even if you don't trust Disney (you not being anyone in particular), don't go into every Star Wars production ready to hate it just because of the franchise's owner.

[Tarsonis]

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

>acknowledge there'd been attempts at desertion
>assert secrecy is unreasonable

Pick one.

No need to pick. There was no disertion as all attempts to disert the ship were prevented, not to mention the first order was not likely in the mood to take prisoners.


Some secrecy is always required, but the level of tight lippedness in the movie is unrealistic. Poe would have been informed in any competently run military section. He may have been demoted but he wasn't kicked out.

[Tarsonis]

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

Not to mention Leia had no qualms about telling Poe once she'd been revived.

Leia was actually a competent leader.

[Alekseandrea]

Few things indicate she actually is. Her clothing and her lack of communication are apparently enough to justify mutiny. Leia is lucky that she dresses better.



So he should be treated like he's more/better than the average soldier, because he doesn't think things through, is popular AND he commited mutiny?




If you tell people you have a plan and one of them deserts an gets captured, the first order will be able to know there is a plan.
I doubt that Hux is so dim that he wouldn't realise that "keeping your ships at a distance until fuel runs out" isn't much of a plan.

So how would the first order gain more information over said plan? They would start scanning for everything. Which would mean that the ships probably won't sneak away unseen.

So deserters couldn't tell it to the first order. The less people knew, the better the chances of the plan working. If you're plan hinges on not being found out, it's a very reasonable action. People would still have deserted if they heard about the plan. Knowing a plan and believing it will work are 2 different things.

Except there were no deserters that made it off the ship. Rose tagged everyone trying to leave and they had to cover rose and Finn leaving, because sensors picked them up leaving immediately. There was no reason for Holdo to be so tight lipped on a ship. Communication moves militaries. Officers, even as one as low as Poe need to be informed. Soldiers don't just take it on faith the way they tried to show it in the movie. Poe's actions are actually the logical move for a soldier in his position.

Look, this is a case where you're better safe than sorry.

Yes, Rose stopped deserters, but those weren't the only escape pods and she's gone for half the movie.
Assuming that no deserters will escape is foolish.

No need to pick. There was no disertion as all attempts to disert the ship were prevented, not to mention the first order was not likely in the mood to take prisoners.


Some secrecy is always required, but the level of tight lippedness in the movie is unrealistic. Poe would have been informed in any competently run military section. He may have been demoted but he wasn't kicked out.

Trusting on the cooperation of your enemies isn't that good an idea.

And Poe didn't need to know. What's the point of using a need-to-know policy when you're going to tell people who have more screentime than you and don't need to know, simply because they have more screentime?

Not to mention Leia had no qualms about telling Poe once she'd been revived.

That's nepotism, that is.
Also, Leia KNOWS and TRUSTS Poe.

Holdo knows nor trusts Poe.
Why does Holdo need to trust Poe right away?
Poe doesn't trust Holdo either, but apperantly having more screentime makes up for that.