DCEU Discussion Thread

[The Rebel Alliances]

This is the thread where all things DCEU can be discussed and debated. The DCEU as of this post consists of three films with Wonder Woman just around the corner and Justice League a short wait after that. DCEU began with the financially successful and moderately well received 'Man of Steel' and with only three films has made over $2 billion in the box office.

However, critically it has been a rocky start. As critics have derided the latest two films with audience reviews sharply divided. Add in some awkward editing and cutting choices and you have the start of a promising expanded cinematic universe flying in controversy.

However with all of this aside their is plenty for fans, skeptics and critics of the DCEU to discuss. We have Wonder Woman, Justice League and Aquaman on the way. As well as rumors of solo Batman and Batgirl films coming in the next couple years.

So, where do you stand in the DCEU? Are you counted among it's fans? Waiting for the right movie to see or perhaps a fierce critic with your own formula and theory to fix the franchise?

Personally, I am a fan of what we have so far. I was originally a skeptic back in high school before Man of Steel dropped. I wasn't too aware of who Zack Snyder was despite having seen 300 and I remember reading every scrap of news on the upcoming movie and angered by the lack of Kryptonite. However the film dropped and from the opening scenes of Krypton I was instantly enamored.

Short version, I loved the film. And hated that I had to wait years for the sequel. Then me and a friend went to see Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and while I left thinking that Man of Steel was better, I still loved the movie. Until I found the Ultimate Edition and it became my new favorite film in the group so far. I remember being shocked seeing how negative the film was received, and hoped that Suicide Squad would bring more people around. And while it helped some, I again was seemingly alone in a sea of angry reviews.

So, that's my story and experience so far. I am very excited for Wonder Woman but I have doubts about how it will land on the critical front. I honestly think the film with the best chance to 'win' critics over will likely be Justice League.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I thought Man of Steel was all right. I'd probably rate it more highly than the average critic would. BvS though--yeah, that had serious issues.

Haven't seen Suicide Squad yet, don't imagine I will any time soon.

It's surprising (and really quite sad) that the less well-established, critically struggling DCEU is going to have a film with a female lead out before the MCU. I hope Wonder Woman does well, but I'm not optimistic.

[The Rebel Alliances]

I thought Man of Steel was all right. I'd probably rate it more highly than the average critic would. BvS though--yeah, that had serious issues.

Haven't seen Suicide Squad yet, don't imagine I will any time soon.

It's surprising (and really quite sad) that the less well-established, critically struggling DCEU is going to have a film with a female lead out before the MCU. I hope Wonder Woman does well, but I'm not optimistic.

Have you seen the Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman? If the issues you are referring to are the bizzare editing and cuts in the film that is not an issue with the Ultimate. Honestly the Ultimate is the original movie but WB shot themselves in the foot by cutting roughly thirty minutes of various scenes from the movie.

If your issues are otherwise then feel free to discuss what you disliked. My grievances were very few when weighed against the average critic.

I don't see how it is surprising or sad to be honest. Wonder Woman is among the very most iconic and recognizable superhero characters not only in DC Comics but in general. I don't see it as anything other than expected.

Although I agree that it may not be the Critic praised movie we are waiting for. I think Justice League stands a better chance there. But don't confuse that as me believing the movie will be bad, I fully expect to enjoy a good movie when I see it in theaters.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I thought Man of Steel was all right. I'd probably rate it more highly than the average critic would. BvS though--yeah, that had serious issues.

Haven't seen Suicide Squad yet, don't imagine I will any time soon.

It's surprising (and really quite sad) that the less well-established, critically struggling DCEU is going to have a film with a female lead out before the MCU. I hope Wonder Woman does well, but I'm not optimistic.

Have you seen the Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman? If the issues you are referring to are the bizzare editing and cuts in the film that is not an issue with the Ultimate. Honestly the Ultimate is the original movie but WB shot themselves in the foot by cutting roughly thirty minutes of various scenes from the movie.

If your issues are otherwise then feel free to discuss what you disliked. My grievances were very few when weighed against the average critic.

I don't see how it is surprising or sad to be honest. Wonder Woman is among the very most iconic and recognizable superhero characters not only in DC Comics but in general. I don't see it as anything other than expected.

Although I agree that it may not be the Critic praised movie we are waiting for. I think Justice League stands a better chance there. But don't confuse that as me believing the movie will be bad, I fully expect to enjoy a good movie when I see it in theaters.

I really don't think an extra half hour on that film would improve it. Considering the stuff they left in, I can only imagine the stuff they cut was terrible. If they cut genuinely good material in favour of long shots of Superman and Bruce Wayne doing nothing and weird dream sequences, then the people responsible were incompetent (and criticism of their product valid).

I mean it's sad that a more successful franchise (that can afford to take "risks"), and which had a six year head-start isn't going to be releasing a film with a female lead util two years after the struggling latecomer. Marvel will have released twenty films centred on a man (or men) before they finally release Captain Marvel. I think that's sad.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Have you seen the Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman? If the issues you are referring to are the bizzare editing and cuts in the film that is not an issue with the Ultimate. Honestly the Ultimate is the original movie but WB shot themselves in the foot by cutting roughly thirty minutes of various scenes from the movie.

If your issues are otherwise then feel free to discuss what you disliked. My grievances were very few when weighed against the average critic.

I don't see how it is surprising or sad to be honest. Wonder Woman is among the very most iconic and recognizable superhero characters not only in DC Comics but in general. I don't see it as anything other than expected.

Although I agree that it may not be the Critic praised movie we are waiting for. I think Justice League stands a better chance there. But don't confuse that as me believing the movie will be bad, I fully expect to enjoy a good movie when I see it in theaters.

I really don't think an extra half hour on that film would improve it. Considering the stuff they left in, I can only imagine the stuff they cut was terrible. If they cut genuinely good material in favour of long shots of Superman and Bruce Wayne doing nothing and weird dream sequences, then the people responsible were incompetent (and criticism of their product valid).

I mean it's sad that a more successful franchise (that can afford to take "risks"), and which had a six year head-start isn't going to be releasing a film with a female lead util two years after the struggling latecomer. Marvel will have released twenty films centred on a man (or men) before they finally release Captain Marvel. I think that's sad.

And my post was lost...

Well, in summary the cuts included scenes pretty important to the plot. Clark Kent investigating the 'Gotham Bat' story in Gotham. Lex arranging the death of the branded inmate to further provoke Superman. KGBeast killing the desert witness to tie up loose ends. Lois Lanes' investigation revealing that the wheelchair hiding the Capital bomb was lined with lead so Supes couldn't see it. The scenes they cut were pretty important to the coherent progression of the story, and while you can understand what is happening in the theatrical, you need to make several assumptions on what has happened that you did not see.

For instance, in the theatrical you see Clark confront Perry White about covering the Gotham Bat, but Perry says drop it. The next time it is mentioned is when Perry discovers that Clark hasn't written anything on his assigned projects on sports or the Metropolis Library, only the Bat story. So, we have to assume he investigated the Batman. But in the ultimate edition we actually see it, helping to lay the groundwork for the final confrontation.

Wonder Woman is basically the first lady of Comic Books, Captain Marvel not so much, I still fail to see the surprise. And am even more confused why anyone would see it as 'sad'. Is DCEU 'supposed' to wait for MCU to do these things first? Supposed to not stand out from the established MCU in any way?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I really don't think an extra half hour on that film would improve it. Considering the stuff they left in, I can only imagine the stuff they cut was terrible. If they cut genuinely good material in favour of long shots of Superman and Bruce Wayne doing nothing and weird dream sequences, then the people responsible were incompetent (and criticism of their product valid).

I mean it's sad that a more successful franchise (that can afford to take "risks"), and which had a six year head-start isn't going to be releasing a film with a female lead util two years after the struggling latecomer. Marvel will have released twenty films centred on a man (or men) before they finally release Captain Marvel. I think that's sad.

And my post was lost...

Well, in summary the cuts included scenes pretty important to the plot. Clark Kent investigating the 'Gotham Bat' story in Gotham. Lex arranging the death of the branded inmate to further provoke Superman. KGBeast killing the desert witness to tie up loose ends. Lois Lanes' investigation revealing that the wheelchair hiding the Capital bomb was lined with lead so Supes couldn't see it. The scenes they cut were pretty important to the coherent progression of the story, and while you can understand what is happening in the theatrical, you need to make several assumptions on what has happened that you did not see.

For instance, in the theatrical you see Clark confront Perry White about covering the Gotham Bat, but Perry says drop it. The next time it is mentioned is when Perry discovers that Clark hasn't written anything on his assigned projects on sports or the Metropolis Library, only the Bat story. So, we have to assume he investigated the Batman. But in the ultimate edition we actually see it, helping to lay the groundwork for the final confrontation.

Wonder Woman is basically the first lady of Comic Books, Captain Marvel not so much, I still fail to see the surprise. And am even more confused why anyone would see it as 'sad'. Is DCEU 'supposed' to wait for MCU to do these things first? Supposed to not stand out from the established MCU in any way?

I mean it reflects badly on Marvel, in much the same way it would reflect badly on a grown man to lose a race to a toddler (assuming he was actually trying to win). I am actually praising the DCEU here.

I don't think those scenes would have made the film not-bad. You'd still be left with an underwhelming and drawn out fight against a dull monster-thing, and a contrived (but ultimately meaningless) sacrifice. The theatrical release is bad on its own merits, not just bad for the absence of context. The director's cut might resolve some of the film's plotting issues. The deleted scenes might even be good, but even if those thirty minutes are the most fucking amazing thirty minutes ever put to film, they're not going to make up for two and a half hours of bad cinema.

Again, this is leaving aside the fact that, if your film depends on people seeing the director's cut, it's a bad film.

[The Rebel Alliances]

And my post was lost...

Well, in summary the cuts included scenes pretty important to the plot. Clark Kent investigating the 'Gotham Bat' story in Gotham. Lex arranging the death of the branded inmate to further provoke Superman. KGBeast killing the desert witness to tie up loose ends. Lois Lanes' investigation revealing that the wheelchair hiding the Capital bomb was lined with lead so Supes couldn't see it. The scenes they cut were pretty important to the coherent progression of the story, and while you can understand what is happening in the theatrical, you need to make several assumptions on what has happened that you did not see.

For instance, in the theatrical you see Clark confront Perry White about covering the Gotham Bat, but Perry says drop it. The next time it is mentioned is when Perry discovers that Clark hasn't written anything on his assigned projects on sports or the Metropolis Library, only the Bat story. So, we have to assume he investigated the Batman. But in the ultimate edition we actually see it, helping to lay the groundwork for the final confrontation.

Wonder Woman is basically the first lady of Comic Books, Captain Marvel not so much, I still fail to see the surprise. And am even more confused why anyone would see it as 'sad'. Is DCEU 'supposed' to wait for MCU to do these things first? Supposed to not stand out from the established MCU in any way?

I mean it reflects badly on Marvel, in much the same way it would reflect badly on a grown man to lose a race to a toddler (assuming he was actually trying to win). I am actually praising the DCEU here.

I don't think those scenes would have made the film not-bad. You'd still be left with an underwhelming and drawn out fight against a dull monster-thing, and a contrived (but ultimately meaningless) sacrifice. The theatrical release is bad on its own merits, not just bad for the absence of context. The director's cut might resolve some of the film's plotting issues. The deleted scenes might even be good, but even if those thirty minutes are the most fucking amazing thirty minutes ever put to film, they're not going to make up for two and a half hours of bad cinema.

Again, this is leaving aside the fact that, if your film depends on people seeing the director's cut, it's a bad film.

I try to focus on the great things writers, directors, actors and so on do to create a film rather than the Studio handicapping it. A movie was finished and the Studio got greedy and chopped it up nonsensically. I really hope they learned their lesson.

The Doomsday fight was fine, but It wasn't my favorite action sequence in the film. That honor goes to the 'Batman Rescues Martha' scene. Honestly one of my top hero action sequences I have ever seen. And how does Superman's sacrifice lack meaning here? Not trying to be confrontational but I would like to understand what you are seeing that I didn't. Because he will be resurrected? That is straight out of comic canon from Death of Superman. Before his sacrifice, the world was sharply divided, actually likely mostly against him after the capital bombing. Which some accused him of at least being a co conspirator. His monument was defaced, mobs burned Superman replicas in the streets and rallies were staged against him.

Yet, he chose to sacrifice his life for his world. Despite not owing it anything. It was this sacrifice that ultimately lead mankind to embrace Superman as the hero he always was. It also reawakens the faith in mankind that both Bruce and Diana had lost, directly leading to the eventual formation of the Justice League. It oozes meaning both before his sacrifice and the effects of it. It's plainly in the narrative, and all of that was in the theatrical, not a secret for the Ultimate Edition.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I mean it reflects badly on Marvel, in much the same way it would reflect badly on a grown man to lose a race to a toddler (assuming he was actually trying to win). I am actually praising the DCEU here.

I don't think those scenes would have made the film not-bad. You'd still be left with an underwhelming and drawn out fight against a dull monster-thing, and a contrived (but ultimately meaningless) sacrifice. The theatrical release is bad on its own merits, not just bad for the absence of context. The director's cut might resolve some of the film's plotting issues. The deleted scenes might even be good, but even if those thirty minutes are the most fucking amazing thirty minutes ever put to film, they're not going to make up for two and a half hours of bad cinema.

Again, this is leaving aside the fact that, if your film depends on people seeing the director's cut, it's a bad film.

I try to focus on the great things writers, directors, actors and so on do to create a film rather than the Studio handicapping it. A movie was finished and the Studio got greedy and chopped it up nonsensically. I really hope they learned their lesson.

The Doomsday fight was fine, but It wasn't my favorite action sequence in the film. That honor goes to the 'Batman Rescues Martha' scene. Honestly one of my top hero action sequences I have ever seen. And how does Superman's sacrifice lack meaning here? Not trying to be confrontational but I would like to understand what you are seeing that I didn't. Because he will be resurrected? That is straight out of comic canon from Death of Superman. Before his sacrifice, the world was sharply divided, actually likely mostly against him after the capital bombing. Which some accused him of at least being a co conspirator. His monument was defaced, mobs burned Superman replicas in the streets and rallies were staged against him.

Yet, he chose to sacrifice his life for his world. Despite not owing it anything. It was this sacrifice that ultimately lead mankind to embrace Superman as the hero he always was. It also reawakens the faith in mankind that both Bruce and Diana had lost, directly leading to the eventual formation of the Justice League. It oozes meaning both before his sacrifice and the effects of it. It's plainly in the narrative, and all of that was in the theatrical, not a secret for the Ultimate Edition.

It lacks meaning partly because he will be resurrected, yes. The film didn't even try to pretend he wouldn't. That it's out of canon doesn't excuse it. It doesn't help that the characterisation of Superman in the film was just atrocious. Even if he were dead for good (and had had a good reason to sacrifice himself) I wouldn't care.

I think we might have hit on the problem. Snyder built this whole thing around Superman being persecuted and sacrificing himself etc etc. He's got all this religious imagery that doesn't seem to be any more than imagery. It's not a particularly original idea, but that would be fine if it were well-executed.

But it's not. It hits none of the buttons for a good heroic sacrifice. It's not necessary, it's not permanent, I didn't care about the dead guy and I don't care about the people left behind. I don't care that the conflict was resolved and the crisis averted.

That's (IMO) the main problem with this film. A storyteller's job is to make their audience care. And Snyder didn't do that.

[The Rebel Alliances]

I try to focus on the great things writers, directors, actors and so on do to create a film rather than the Studio handicapping it. A movie was finished and the Studio got greedy and chopped it up nonsensically. I really hope they learned their lesson.

The Doomsday fight was fine, but It wasn't my favorite action sequence in the film. That honor goes to the 'Batman Rescues Martha' scene. Honestly one of my top hero action sequences I have ever seen. And how does Superman's sacrifice lack meaning here? Not trying to be confrontational but I would like to understand what you are seeing that I didn't. Because he will be resurrected? That is straight out of comic canon from Death of Superman. Before his sacrifice, the world was sharply divided, actually likely mostly against him after the capital bombing. Which some accused him of at least being a co conspirator. His monument was defaced, mobs burned Superman replicas in the streets and rallies were staged against him.

Yet, he chose to sacrifice his life for his world. Despite not owing it anything. It was this sacrifice that ultimately lead mankind to embrace Superman as the hero he always was. It also reawakens the faith in mankind that both Bruce and Diana had lost, directly leading to the eventual formation of the Justice League. It oozes meaning both before his sacrifice and the effects of it. It's plainly in the narrative, and all of that was in the theatrical, not a secret for the Ultimate Edition.

It lacks meaning partly because he will be resurrected, yes. The film didn't even try to pretend he wouldn't. That it's out of canon doesn't excuse it. It doesn't help that the characterisation of Superman in the film was just atrocious. Even if he were dead for good (and had had a good reason to sacrifice himself) I wouldn't care.

I think we might have hit on the problem. Snyder built this whole thing around Superman being persecuted and sacrificing himself etc etc. He's got all this religious imagery that doesn't seem to be any more than imagery. It's not a particularly original idea, but that would be fine if it were well-executed.

But it's not. It hits none of the buttons for a good heroic sacrifice. It's not necessary, it's not permanent, I didn't care about the dead guy and I don't care about the people left behind. I don't care that the conflict was resolved and the crisis averted.

That's (IMO) the main problem with this film. A storyteller's job is to make their audience care. And Snyder didn't do that.

Ok, well at least I understand your objection. I do not agree, but I understand it. Thanks for writing that out. Personally, I don't see how the eventual return discounts the moment. So knowing he will be back at no way hindered me feeling a bit lost that Superman was killed. Superman had no way of knowing his death wouldn't be permanent, even if the audience did. As I stated its true to the source material and enough people know that. Zack Snyder essentially had a story he wanted to tell to kick the DCEU off, it began with Man of Steel and will end with Justice League. Essentially it is the three movie DCEU version of the Death of Superman. But the actions in the first movie directly impact what Superman endures in the second and his sacrifice in the second directly leads to the renewal of faith in the third act personified in the Justice League. And to me the imagery was some of the best parts.

I do have a question though, if the approach was done differently, lets say that the progression of the Start of Superman to his Death and Resurrection was slower. That we were given lets say two solo Superman films then Batman v Superman where he dies to give more films to attach an audience to the character of Superman, would that have helped?

Or if his death lasted longer, maybe a Justice League with no Superman and instead he returns in Justice League 2 perhaps to give weight to his loss?

Also, where is everyone else in this discussion thread. Kinda feeling like we are talking through TG at this point.

[Lord Dominator]

Also, where is everyone else in this discussion thread. Kinda feeling like we are talking through TG at this point.

I'll post something since I meant to earlier.
Personally I'm more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, but I've still enjoyed the two movies I've seen (MoS and BvS)
Personally, Man of Steel wasn't bad, but it also isn't one of my favorite movies. I think part of this was from the time-skips (Baby-adult-child-adult-etc), and that I've never been a large fan of Superman in general.
I liked Bat vs Super better, and I didn't entirely mind the weird editing format way they put it together.

Of course, I've only seen each of these once, and it has been a number of months since that, so my memory might be faulty on some of this.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Also, where is everyone else in this discussion thread. Kinda feeling like we are talking through TG at this point.

I'll post something since I meant to earlier.
Personally I'm more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, but I've still enjoyed the two movies I've seen (MoS and BvS)
Personally, Man of Steel wasn't bad, but it also isn't one of my favorite movies. I think part of this was from the time-skips (Baby-adult-child-adult-etc), and that I've never been a large fan of Superman in general.
I liked Bat vs Super better, and I didn't entirely mind the weird editing format way they put it together.

Of course, I've only seen each of these once, and it has been a number of months since that, so my memory might be faulty on some of this.

If you like BvS I highly recommend the Ultimate Edition. its the original vision of the film and flows far better. Also moving on what are everyone's favorite fight scenes?

Mine are...

1. Batman saves Martha
2. Superman vs General Zod
3. Smallville Battle
4. Batman vs Superman
5. Doomsday Fight

I'll explain my picks later, at work now.

[Osnil Returns]

I'd be interested in seeing a live-action version of the Crime Syndikate's invasion of Earth after JL comes out. It would be perfect competition for Infinity War.

[Lord Dominator]

I'll post something since I meant to earlier.
Personally I'm more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, but I've still enjoyed the two movies I've seen (MoS and BvS)
Personally, Man of Steel wasn't bad, but it also isn't one of my favorite movies. I think part of this was from the time-skips (Baby-adult-child-adult-etc), and that I've never been a large fan of Superman in general.
I liked Bat vs Super better, and I didn't entirely mind the weird editing format way they put it together.

Of course, I've only seen each of these once, and it has been a number of months since that, so my memory might be faulty on some of this.

If you like BvS I highly recommend the Ultimate Edition. its the original vision of the film and flows far better. Also moving on what are everyone's favorite fight scenes?

Mine are...

1. Batman saves Martha
2. Superman vs General Zod
3. Smallville Battle
4. Batman vs Superman
5. Doomsday Fight

I'll explain my picks later, at work now.

I'll be sure to see the Ultimate edition when I can

Mine would be:
1) Doomsday fight
2) Smallville battle
3) Overall fight/destruction in/of Metropolis
4) Batman vs Superman

[The first Galactic Republic]

Superman vs Zod was really good and Batman vs Superman was decent if ridiculous. Every other fight is kind of terrible.

[Miloscia]

Superman vs Zod was really good and Batman vs Superman was decent if ridiculous. Every other fight is kind of terrible.

Hands down the best is Batman saving Martha. THAT is some dang Batman action! Batman versus Superman wasn't bad, and I haven't seen Man of Steel in a while

[The Rebel Alliances]

Superman vs Zod was really good and Batman vs Superman was decent if ridiculous. Every other fight is kind of terrible.

Hands down the best is Batman saving Martha. THAT is some dang Batman action! Batman versus Superman wasn't bad, and I haven't seen Man of Steel in a while

I have to agree here. There was so much to love in that fight scene. What makes it more impressive is that normally the best superhero fight scenes involve two or more title characters. This was Batman vs literally nameless thugs. From his misdirection tactics coming up through the floor, disabling their assault rifles, launching crates with his grapple gun like damned artillery we have never seen Batman so intimidating. He obviously kills several people in the sequence but he also clearly leaves others others alive...just fucked up and terrified. This scene is among my favorite hero fights between any hero movie the MCU as well. For me Batfleck is the Batman.

As for Superman vs Zod, this fight really showed a genuine rage from Shannon's Zod at his plan to reform Krypton being foiled. The theme of unbreakable beings in a breakable environment is clearly seen here and done remarkably well. With amazing aerial combat included there is little lacking here. We feel the power of every punch and action. And the ending to this climatic battle where Superman is forced to kill Zod to save innocents and immediately cry out in agony is just...cinamatic gold. There is just so much to say about this fight and ending that I could go on but I will stop here.

The Smallville battle gives us two powerful Kryptonian enemies to battle Clark as he fights less like Superman and more like a average Joe trying to protect his mother. All amid the chaotic setting of Smallville where the Military goes in typical fashion and targets both sides only adding to the destruction while giving further evidence of how invulnerable the Kryptonians are to human attack. Honestly, Ursa and Superman tearing through the IHOP is possibly my favorite shot in the scene. To this day when I visit an IHOP it's hard not to scan the area for red capes ripping through just in case.

Ah, the Batman v Superman fight. Many criticize this fight but I found nothing but enjoyment. While some accused it of being slow, anti climatic and other things I give credit for the team for actually having the balls to give us a definitive winner. The battle starts with showing us the traps that Batman set, giving us that prep time we rarely get in live action Batman films. And the battle lacks a breakneck pace because, Superman is literally wearing kids gloves. He feels as if he can freely push Batman around at his leisure trying to knock some sense into him. But Batman even with his armor is feeling the strain from every light shove Superman gives him. And ultimately does drive Superman to take him more seriously after revealing Kryptonite. And the sight of seeing Batman drag a nearly broken Superman behind him was honestly hard to watch.

Then we have the Doomsday battle. This is essentially the very first Justice League fight. While Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman are all involved and play a role, it is Wonder Woman who steals the show. As the primary force opposing Doomsday we see her skill in battle and sheer joy at the prospect of the fight. I absolutely love her smirk as she is disarmed and thrown to the ground. Where any other character would be reasonably worried she just adores the challenge, reminding us of her warrior upbringing. The battle does a terrific job of showcasing the power of Doomsday, Superman and Wonder Woman and sets up the climatic sacrifice of Superman.

[Miloscia]

Hands down the best is Batman saving Martha. THAT is some dang Batman action! Batman versus Superman wasn't bad, and I haven't seen Man of Steel in a while

I have to agree here. There was so much to love in that fight scene. What makes it more impressive is that normally the best superhero fight scenes involve two or more title characters. This was Batman vs literally nameless thugs. From his misdirection tactics coming up through the floor, disabling their assault rifles, launching crates with his grapple gun like damned artillery we have never seen Batman so intimidating. He obviously kills several people in the sequence but he also clearly leaves others others alive...just fucked up and terrified. This scene is among my favorite hero fights between any hero movie the MCU as well. For me Batfleck is the Batman.

As for Superman vs Zod, this fight really showed a genuine rage from Shannon's Zod at his plan to reform Krypton being foiled. The theme of unbreakable beings in a breakable environment is clearly seen here and done remarkably well. With amazing aerial combat included there is little lacking here. We feel the power of every punch and action. And the ending to this climatic battle where Superman is forced to kill Zod to save innocents and immediately cry out in agony is just...cinamatic gold. There is just so much to say about this fight and ending that I could go on but I will stop here.

The Smallville battle gives us two powerful Kryptonian enemies to battle Clark as he fights less like Superman and more like a average Joe trying to protect his mother. All amid the chaotic setting of Smallville where the Military goes in typical fashion and targets both sides only adding to the destruction while giving further evidence of how invulnerable the Kryptonians are to human attack. Honestly, Ursa and Superman tearing through the IHOP is possibly my favorite shot in the scene. To this day when I visit an IHOP it's hard not to scan the area for red capes ripping through just in case.

Ah, the Batman v Superman fight. Many criticize this fight but I found nothing but enjoyment. While some accused it of being slow, anti climatic and other things I give credit for the team for actually having the balls to give us a definitive winner. The battle starts with showing us the traps that Batman set, giving us that prep time we rarely get in live action Batman films. And the battle lacks a breakneck pace because, Superman is literally wearing kids gloves. He feels as if he can freely push Batman around at his leisure trying to knock some sense into him. But Batman even with his armor is feeling the strain from every light shove Superman gives him. And ultimately does drive Superman to take him more seriously after revealing Kryptonite. And the sight of seeing Batman drag a nearly broken Superman behind him was honestly hard to watch.

Then we have the Doomsday battle. This is essentially the very first Justice League fight. While Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman are all involved and play a role, it is Wonder Woman who steals the show. As the primary force opposing Doomsday we see her skill in battle and sheer joy at the prospect of the fight. I absolutely love her smirk as she is disarmed and thrown to the ground. Where any other character would be reasonably worried she just adores the challenge, reminding us of her warrior upbringing. The battle does a terrific job of showcasing the power of Doomsday, Superman and Wonder Woman and sets up the climatic sacrifice of Superman.

Batman probably shouldn't be killing, but aside from that I have no gripes. He moved like an assassin, and it was insane to watch.

Again, haven't watched MoS in a while.

The Batman vs Superman fight could've been better, but I liked it.

The Doomsday fight annoyed me. I disliked using Doomsday like that, and I disliked some of the logical fallacies in the fight. Action was alright, but it just annoyed me.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Batman killing didn't bother me. Not because I love seeing him kill, but the movie gave us all the context needed to explain it. Alfred states plainly Batman has changed multiple times, and this version of Batman has been at it for 20 years in Gotham with little to show for it. I doubt we will see Batfleck like this again going forward in the DCEU, as by the end of movie his idealism is reignited by Superman's sacrifice. Besides in Suicide Squad we clearly see him save Harley Quinn's life and avoid fighting Deadshot in front of his daughter bringing two extremely dangerous criminals in alive which he could have easily killed.

I was fine with the Doomsday battle, this version of Doomsday isn't my favorite but I believe he fulfilled his assigned role well in the film.

[The Rebel Alliances]

New poll up.

So, whats everyone's verdicts on the performances of the cast so far?

Who likes Henry Cavill as Superman? Ben Affleck as Batman? Or Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman?

And do you prefer these castings less or more than past incarnations like Christian Bale as Batman or Christopher Reeve as Superman?

One casting I have to declare as perfect is Viola Davis for Amanda Waller.

[Miloscia]

New poll up.

So, whats everyone's verdicts on the performances of the cast so far?

Who likes Henry Cavill as Superman? Ben Affleck as Batman? Or Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman?

And do you prefer these castings less or more than past incarnations like Christian Bale as Batman or Christopher Reeve as Superman?

One casting I have to declare as perfect is Viola Davis for Amanda Waller.

Easily the best part of the DCEU are the casting choices. Harley, Deadshot, Boomerang, Waller, Batman, Zod, Wonder Woman, Alfred, Flash, Aquaman...

Henry Cavill as Supes seemed good, but he's underwhelmed me.

Jesse Eisenberg was atrocious.

[The Rebel Alliances]

New poll up.

So, whats everyone's verdicts on the performances of the cast so far?

Who likes Henry Cavill as Superman? Ben Affleck as Batman? Or Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman?

And do you prefer these castings less or more than past incarnations like Christian Bale as Batman or Christopher Reeve as Superman?

One casting I have to declare as perfect is Viola Davis for Amanda Waller.

Easily the best part of the DCEU are the casting choices. Harley, Deadshot, Boomerang, Waller, Batman, Zod, Wonder Woman, Alfred, Flash, Aquaman...

Henry Cavill as Supes seemed good, but he's underwhelmed me.

Jesse Eisenberg was atrocious.

Have to agree. Both DCEU and MCU are doing excellent jobs at casting roles. Personally I adore Henry as Superman and Clark, Batfleck is life, Gal as Wonder Woman. Margot Is Harley Quinn and Will Smith as Deadshot was a unexpected but very good choice to me. Jared as the Joker has fared well so far and I really want to see more from him in the future.

As far as villains, so far Shannon's Zod is the best here. Unless you count the entire Suicide Squad cast. But between Zod, Lex and Entrantress, Zod is my favorite. As for Eisenburg's Lex, you either love or hate him. Personally I quite enjoyed several moments my favorite being the Skyscraper scene with Superman.

Even secondary castings are great. Fishburne as Perry. Kevin and Diane as the Kents. Jai as Boomerang ect.

Side Note, I love the casting for Aquaman. You cannot make fun of his character, dude looks like he would snap you in half.

As for castings for characters like Flash and Cyborg I will hold out on a verdict until the movie drops but I am not worried.

[Miloscia]

Have to agree. Both DCEU and MCU are doing excellent jobs at casting roles. Personally I adore Henry as Superman and Clark, Batfleck is life, Gal as Wonder Woman. Margot Is Harley Quinn and Will Smith as Deadshot was a unexpected but very good choice to me. Jared as the Joker has fared well so far and I really want to see more from him in the future.

As far as villains, so far Shannon's Zod is the best here. Unless you count the entire Suicide Squad cast. But between Zod, Lex and Entrantress, Zod is my favorite. As for Eisenburg's Lex, you either love or hate him. Personally I quite enjoyed several moments my favorite being the Skyscraper scene with Superman.

Even secondary castings are great. Fishburne as Perry. Kevin and Diane as the Kents. Jai as Boomerang ect.

Side Note, I love the casting for Aquaman. You cannot make fun of his character, dude looks like he would snap you in half.

As for castings for characters like Flash and Cyborg I will hold out on a verdict until the movie drops but I am not worried.

Cavill is a good fit, but I haven't been fond of his brooding and moping through both of the movies he's in. I'm not sold on Jared Leto's Joker yet. Maybe not enough screen time to do that in Suicide Squad, but there was something off about him to me. He wasn't horrible, just... off. Eisenburg did well playing the Lex he was given, but the Lex he was given was awful. Luthor felt ore like the Riddler than he did Luthor.

Perry, the Kents, and Boomerang were definitely well cast.

I didn't like new Aquaman when I first saw him, but he's grown on me through the JL trailers.

Flash and Cyborg also look great.

[Osnil Returns]

Side Note, I love the casting for Aquaman. You cannot make fun of his character, dude looks like he would snap you in half.

The dude looks more like Thorin Oakenshield than Aquaman. Aquaman NEEDS orange in his outfit.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Cavill is a good fit, but I haven't been fond of his brooding and moping through both of the movies he's in. I'm not sold on Jared Leto's Joker yet. Maybe not enough screen time to do that in Suicide Squad, but there was something off about him to me. He wasn't horrible, just... off. Eisenburg did well playing the Lex he was given, but the Lex he was given was awful. Luthor felt ore like the Riddler than he did Luthor.

Perry, the Kents, and Boomerang were definitely well cast.

I didn't like new Aquaman when I first saw him, but he's grown on me through the JL trailers.

Flash and Cyborg also look great.

Henry just wears the Superman suit so well. And considering the story and plot, it makes sense that Superman is more somber (at least for now) than past incarnations. His first film he was wondering the world with no real direction, searching for his identity. And wasn't Superman until the end credits. And in Batman v Superman, well...he was condemned, feared and towards the end all but charged as a terrorist. Leaving him feeling that no matter what he did he wouldn't be accepted or that any action he took would have consequences harming another. So, if he were overly happy it wouldn't fit. But I have a feeling that things will lighten up a little bit after Justice League(Although not to MCU levels, the DCEU is somber)

At the end of the day this Superman is a more grounded, serious, imperfect but inspirational Superman more fitting in the cynical modern climate we live in.

Side Note, I love the casting for Aquaman. You cannot make fun of his character, dude looks like he would snap you in half.

The dude looks more like Thorin Oakenshield than Aquaman. Aquaman NEEDS orange in his outfit.

No, as much as I defend the comic Aquaman from ridicule. The casting and costume design are just what the character needs to break out of that preconceived role of useless pretty boy the general audience thinks he is.

From his pacific islander look, updated modern costume, tattoos and facial hair and being big enough to casually man handle Bruce Wayne.

Honestly, I think that DCEU Aquaman looks more like an Atlantean King than the traditional blonde hair blue eyed design.

NOTE: Seems that the supposedly 'worst' DCEU movie is winning big in the polls. Makes you wonder.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Cavill is a good fit, but I haven't been fond of his brooding and moping through both of the movies he's in. I'm not sold on Jared Leto's Joker yet. Maybe not enough screen time to do that in Suicide Squad, but there was something off about him to me. He wasn't horrible, just... off. Eisenburg did well playing the Lex he was given, but the Lex he was given was awful. Luthor felt ore like the Riddler than he did Luthor.

Perry, the Kents, and Boomerang were definitely well cast.

I didn't like new Aquaman when I first saw him, but he's grown on me through the JL trailers.

Flash and Cyborg also look great.

Henry just wears the Superman suit so well. And considering the story and plot, it makes sense that Superman is more somber (at least for now) than past incarnations. His first film he was wondering the world with no real direction, searching for his identity. And wasn't Superman until the end credits. And in Batman v Superman, well...he was condemned, feared and towards the end all but charged as a terrorist. Leaving him feeling that no matter what he did he wouldn't be accepted or that any action he took would have consequences harming another. So, if he were overly happy it wouldn't fit. But I have a feeling that things will lighten up a little bit after Justice League(Although not to MCU levels, the DCEU is somber)

At the end of the day this Superman is a more grounded, serious, imperfect but inspirational Superman more fitting in the cynical modern climate we live in.

The dude looks more like Thorin Oakenshield than Aquaman. Aquaman NEEDS orange in his outfit.

No, as much as I defend the comic Aquaman from ridicule. The casting and costume design are just what the character needs to break out of that preconceived role of useless pretty boy the general audience thinks he is.

From his pacific islander look, updated modern costume, tattoos and facial hair and being big enough to casually man handle Bruce Wayne.

Honestly, I think that DCEU Aquaman looks more like an Atlantean King than the traditional blonde hair blue eyed design.

NOTE: Seems that the supposedly 'worst' DCEU movie is winning big in the polls. Makes you wonder.

Who are you talking to that BvS is worse than Suicide Squad?