MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Forsher]

Madame Web is one of then ten films to watch in February:

10. Madame Web
Spider-Man has joined the Marvel Cinematic Universe owned by Disney, but various supporting characters from the Spider-Man comics are still a part of the co-called Sony Spider-Man Universe. What this confusing state of affairs means is that Sony films such as Venom and Morbius can have Spider-Man-ish superheroes and supervillains in them, but they don't feature Spidey himself. Later this year, two more SSU films are due to be released, Venom 3 and Kraven the Hunter. In the meantime, Madame Web stars Dakota Johnson as the conveniently named Cassandra Webb, a New York paramedic who acquires the ability to see the future. This puts her at odds with a Spider-Man-ish baddie (Tahar Rahim) who is trying to kill three Spider-Man-ish women (Sydney Sweeney, Celeste O'Connor and Isabela Merced). Let's hope the film is more successful than the first trailer, which became notorious for one clunky line of dialogue: "He was in the Amazon with my mum when she was researching spiders, right before she died."

On general release from 14 February

It's absolutely crazy that this intro has specifically referenced that dialogue reaction. (I still think it was always intended to be trailer only dialogue that was inserted because you can't do a "in a world" voice overs in trailers any more.)

[Cannot think of a name]

It's a February release of an off brand Marvel character not a lot of people have heard of, so this isn't as big a deal as clickbait will probably make it out to be, but I finally got around to getting a reservation for Madame Web...


It's not even playing in the fancy Dolby theater. I have to watch the last showing so I can sax noodle on the corner to milk tips out of people on Valentines dates, I'm practically getting a private screening.

I'm not super jazzed about it, I haven't ever read any stories with Madame Web or the various Spider-women in this.

But I got three passes a week to see movies and I already saw Argyle. I'm not the biggest Mathew Vaugn fan. Just...I've seen everything else I'm gonna see. Waiting for the Oscar shorts to come to the theaters.

[Cannot think of a name]

Remember that Wonder Man series they're making?

A crew member has died.

If I know anyone on that show they haven't said anything (I almost certainly do not, but the motion capture people generally don't say anything until the movie is released).

That sucks. It doesn't say what happened.

I kinda feel like you can still make fun of the Marvel show you keep forgetting was even happening. The only time I ever hear about it, something bad is happening (though not necessarily it's fault). I found it out existed at all when the strike shut it down, then forgot about it, then saw this.

[Cannot think of a name]

Someone behind the scenes rolled on rehearsal (film set 'joke', the director or actors will want to rehearse a scene that was just blocked or whatever and the AD (assistant director who actually drives the shoot) or even the director sometimes will ask to 'roll on rehearsal' which is a pain in the ass. We're just rolling on a take we know we're going to have to roll again on and it's not as useful to the editors as we tell ourselves. For them it's just more footage to log that they're not gonna use.)

Anyway, bts footage of Daredevil and Bullseye doing some fight choreography.

Also, though I find the criteria for 'trending' to be dubious, I had gone to was Twitter to see if any noodles posted something about a primary happening tonight, but Eternals was trending. Apparently it was an 'outpouring' of support after Kumail Nanjiani said in an interview he talked to a therapist about Eternals not performing well. (I...liked Eternals just fine. If nothing else its finale wasn't same vs same or an army of faceless opponents and I liked they way they depicted Mekurri or however they spell that name's speed. It actually felt kenitic and fast and not just a variation on Fry drinking too much coffee.)

[Eahland]

I like Kamala. She makes Carol and Monica more fun, too.

I enjoy how cat Goose is. "Yeah, I ate your throw pillow. Whatevs. Why are you talking to me. I'm busy licking my paws."

So Captain Marvel is a Disney princess now. Complete with musical number.

I'm getting really tired of the move where someone's sliding across the floor from an impact and they do a little arc behind them with their weapon to stop it. Seriously, people, you do not have to use it in every movie. Get some new fight choreography already.

Okay, so Beast, obviously, but I don't recognize not-Monica's-mom's costume. I feel like I should.

Also, as an old-school wargamer, I really appreciate the notion that the universe is made up of giant hexagons.

[Cannot think of a name]

I like Kamala. She makes Carol and Monica more fun, too.

I enjoy how cat Goose is. "Yeah, I ate your throw pillow. Whatevs. Why are you talking to me. I'm busy licking my paws."

So Captain Marvel is a Disney princess now. Complete with musical number.

I'm getting really tired of the move where someone's sliding across the floor from an impact and they do a little arc behind them with their weapon to stop it. Seriously, people, you do not have to use it in every movie. Get some new fight choreography already.

Okay, so Beast, obviously, but I don't recognize not-Monica's-mom's costume. I feel like I should.

Also, as an old-school wargamer, I really appreciate the notion that the universe is made up of giant hexagons.

The question:

Binary.

I included the link because I was about to give you the wrong answer and just before I did I googled to make sure, so...since I've heard of Binary but didn't recognize the suit I'm going to let the article that corrected me explain.

[Eahland]

I like Kamala. She makes Carol and Monica more fun, too.

I enjoy how cat Goose is. "Yeah, I ate your throw pillow. Whatevs. Why are you talking to me. I'm busy licking my paws."

So Captain Marvel is a Disney princess now. Complete with musical number.

I'm getting really tired of the move where someone's sliding across the floor from an impact and they do a little arc behind them with their weapon to stop it. Seriously, people, you do not have to use it in every movie. Get some new fight choreography already.

Okay, so Beast, obviously, but I don't recognize not-Monica's-mom's costume. I feel like I should.

Also, as an old-school wargamer, I really appreciate the notion that the universe is made up of giant hexagons.

The question:

Binary.

I included the link because I was about to give you the wrong answer and just before I did I googled to make sure, so...since I've heard of Binary but didn't recognize the suit I'm going to let the article that corrected me explain.

I thought it might be — and Beast does mention "Binary" in the scene, though it's not 100% clear that he's referring to Maria (if that is indeed her name) — but I googled Binary and the costumes I got were enough different that I decided probably not. I would've just googled Marvels end scene, but I was pretty sure that was just going to get me a mess of YouTube videos of incels ranting about how everything in the MCU is bad and woke now.

Speaking of which, I'm hopeful for Kamala Khan/Kate Bishop teamups. Hopefully we can get some Yelena in there, too. I think I've said it before, but if the MCU from here on out were just Kate Bishop and Yelena doing frenemies banter while fighting and/or eating mac'n'cheese, I would be perfectly happy with it. I took Disney+'s recommendation to re-watch Hawkeye after I got done Echo, and I had forgotten how much fun that show was.

[Eahland]

I should add that, my ranting about that one move that's suddenly everywhere aside, the fight choreography in general was actually really interesting and creative, particularly in the first big fight scene where the three of them were switching places across the galaxy and didn't know what was going on.

[Cannot think of a name]

Browser is moving so slow I'll probably get ninja'd, but The Deadpool & Wolverine trailer is out.

[Tarsonis]

Browser is moving so slow I'll probably get ninja'd, but The Deadpool & Wolverine trailer is out.

Apparently there's a Secret Wars Easter egg

[Cannot think of a name]

Browser is moving so slow I'll probably get ninja'd, but The Deadpool & Wolverine trailer is out.

Apparently there's a Secret Wars Easter egg

I think I saw it, but I'll have to watch again now that I'm looking for it.

[Forsher]

I should add that, my ranting about that one move that's suddenly everywhere aside, the fight choreography in general was actually really interesting and creative, particularly in the first big fight scene where the three of them were switching places across the galaxy and didn't know what was going on.

I don't understand The Marvels.

I guess part of it has to be the backlash to Carol in general, Brie Larson specifically and the inane "help" scene in Endgame, which would explain why the film was retooled to be (a) not branded Captain Marvel 2 and (b) take over the family friendly action comedy niche from the Ant Man films. That kind of makes sense. I say kind of because the Ant Man films, by which I mean the first two, didn't really work for Marvel. Like, there's no way that Disney could've seen the collapse of the superhero market happening the way that it did, but they should've known that the ceiling for "family friendly action comedy superhero" films is really low. Hmm... when did The Marvels enter the pipeline? *checks*

Official development began in January 2020, when Megan McDonnell entered negotiations to write the script after serving as a staff writer on Marvel Studios' Disney+ miniseries WandaVision (2021).[36]

Okay, that makes a little more sense. But with the way these films are made, you'd expect that they were conscious that the box office is still depressed early enough to not give The Marvels a massive budget if it was going to be a FFACS movie or make it not be a FFACS movie.

It's quite insane that in a single year Marvel took their FFACS brand and tried to make a "normal MCU" movie under that brand, destroyed a billion dollar brand and then tried to make a new FFACS brand... when you add in the context that the FFACS brand wasn't working in the first place. The fact that Quantumania ended up being so unrelentingly awful it seemingly killed the box office of superhero films in general, is then the poison icing on the toxic sludge cake.

I still haven't seen Shazam 2 (or Blue Beetle which might be in the same boat... I'm not sure I've even watched the trailers for that), but I like all the FFACS movies, including The Marvels. I'd rather have them exist, than not. But from Disney/Marvel's point of view, they either shouldn't be made or they should have much, much smaller budgets than they do.

I think The Marvels got hit extra hard because superhero films are entering their Dark Age, whether or not Disney and WB have realised it, so the fact the film basically just glosses over the repeated

extinction events in its plot really doesn't help.

That was just bad timing though. I don't really think Disney could've foreseen that modern audiences want to see cute baby animals get tortured by mad scientists. Time to break out Kyle and Yost*, Feige because to make superhero films make money now, they've got to be dark and maybe edgy.

*For the uninitiated, these are the TV writers who created X-23... who proved to be so popular they were hired to write New X-Men Vol. 2 and X Force Vol. 3. You remember the Deadpool 2 joke "that's so dark; are you sure you're not from the DC universe?" Snyder has nothing on New X-Men Vol. 2 and X Force Vol. 3. They're more in the Invincible/Boys space.

[Cannot think of a name]

What I thought it was it definitely was not. So...no idea. I mean, I could google but I'll just let the algorithm do its magic.

EDIT: Oh...nice. Was over thinking it clearly.

[Tarsonis]

Late announcement but HQ Season 5 has been confirmed. Predict late '24 early '25 release.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Late announcement but HQ Season 5 has been confirmed. Predict late '24 early '25 release.

I still need to get around to watching the last season.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Browser is moving so slow I'll probably get ninja'd, but The Deadpool & Wolverine trailer is out.

I enjoyed the other two deadpool movies so hoping this one is decent enough like.

[Cannot think of a name]

Fantastic Four official announcements.

- It's a period piece still, set in the 1960s.

- The cast is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic (someone put a picture or Anson Mount (Black Bolt so far in the MCU) as Reed Richards and dammit...that's pretty good...), the chick with the weird eyes from Dead Reckoning will play Sue Richards, the angry problem cousin in The Bear will be Ben Grimm making it his second character in the MCU after Microchip, and the cat who played Eddie Munson on the last season of Stranger Things will be Johnny Storm.

- Enjoy your superhero drought (Madame Web aside, which early reviews are saying it's Morbin' time...I"ll find out later tonight) while you can...release is mid July 2025 two weeks after Superman: Legacy.

I don't like fandoom and I'm a 'make mine Marvel' kinda guy, but if I were to bet I'd bet on Superman: Legacy taking Fantastic Four in a box office show down that clickbait will treat as important. I think there's far more curiousity and good will towards James Gunn's relaunch of the DCU than there is a third at bat with the A- team. Like, people know who the Fantastic Four are, but how many people are pumped by the Fantastic Four as characters?

Not that I think it's all that important which superhero blockbuster does more or less money...I could just, like, enjoy movies.

[Ameriganastan]

Fantastic Four official announcements.

- It's a period piece still, set in the 1960s.

- The cast is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic (someone put a picture or Anson Mount (Black Bolt so far in the MCU) as Reed Richards and dammit...that's pretty good...), the chick with the weird eyes from Dead Reckoning will play Sue Richards, the angry problem cousin in The Bear will be Ben Grimm making it his second character in the MCU after Microchip, and the cat who played Eddie Munson on the last season of Stranger Things will be Johnny Storm.

- Enjoy your superhero drought (Madame Web aside, which early reviews are saying it's Morbin' time...I"ll find out later tonight) while you can...release is mid July 2025 two weeks after Superman: Legacy.

I don't like fandoom and I'm a 'make mine Marvel' kinda guy, but if I were to bet I'd bet on Superman: Legacy taking Fantastic Four in a box office show down that clickbait will treat as important. I think there's far more curiousity and good will towards James Gunn's relaunch of the DCU than there is a third at bat with the A- team. Like, people know who the Fantastic Four are, but how many people are pumped by the Fantastic Four as characters?

Not that I think it's all that important which superhero blockbuster does more or less money...I could just, like, enjoy movies.

Dang. So much for my fantasy pick of H. Jon Benjamin as The Thing.

[Cannot think of a name]

Fantastic Four official announcements.

- It's a period piece still, set in the 1960s.

- The cast is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic (someone put a picture or Anson Mount (Black Bolt so far in the MCU) as Reed Richards and dammit...that's pretty good...), the chick with the weird eyes from Dead Reckoning will play Sue Richards, the angry problem cousin in The Bear will be Ben Grimm making it his second character in the MCU after Microchip, and the cat who played Eddie Munson on the last season of Stranger Things will be Johnny Storm.

- Enjoy your superhero drought (Madame Web aside, which early reviews are saying it's Morbin' time...I"ll find out later tonight) while you can...release is mid July 2025 two weeks after Superman: Legacy.

I don't like fandoom and I'm a 'make mine Marvel' kinda guy, but if I were to bet I'd bet on Superman: Legacy taking Fantastic Four in a box office show down that clickbait will treat as important. I think there's far more curiousity and good will towards James Gunn's relaunch of the DCU than there is a third at bat with the A- team. Like, people know who the Fantastic Four are, but how many people are pumped by the Fantastic Four as characters?

Not that I think it's all that important which superhero blockbuster does more or less money...I could just, like, enjoy movies.

Dang. So much for my fantasy pick of H. Jon Benjamin as The Thing.

Fingers crossed for animation, because that's a pretty inspired pick.

[GCMG]

- The cast is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic (someone put a picture or Anson Mount (Black Bolt so far in the MCU) as Reed Richards and dammit...that's pretty good...),

Are you saying you'd rather have Anson Mount as Mr Fantastic than Pedro Pascal?

the chick with the weird eyes from Dead Reckoning will play Sue Richards,

i.e. the original Margaret from The Crown (and Jason Statham's sister in the Fast and Furious spinoff movie).

Vanessa Kirby's thirteen years younger than Pascal. I really don't give a shit about the age gap discourse (I'm lying, I think it's completely hysterical) but this surprises me. I thought they were trying to get away from the idea of an age gap between Reed and Sue.

Like, people know who the Fantastic Four are, but how many people are pumped by the Fantastic Four as characters?

It feels like Marvel's got caught in the middle between all these people whining about characters no-one's heard of and "Reed Richards is meant to be an old dude with kids" and ended up jumping straight into a minefield for no good reason. Maybe Disney's right at and no-one actually gives a shit about age gaps.

Look, unless this film is specifically a time travel story about a man, his wife, his best friend and his brother-in-law trying to make a time machine and giving themselves superpowers as a side effect of travelling from the 1960s to today, cue fish out of water 60s scientists try and make sense of the future story, this announcement is pretty much everything I was afraid an MCU Fantastic Four movie was going to be. It has no genuine ideas of its own and is instead chasing superficial ideas and trendy castings that betray a lack of confidence in the premise.

Really, really scared of what Feige's going to do to the X-Men now. Like, more than I was before. Fire him Disney.

[Cannot think of a name]

- The cast is Pedro Pascal as Mr Fantastic (someone put a picture or Anson Mount (Black Bolt so far in the MCU) as Reed Richards and dammit...that's pretty good...),

Are you saying you'd rather have Anson Mount as Mr Fantastic than Pedro Pascal?

the chick with the weird eyes from Dead Reckoning will play Sue Richards,

i.e. the original Margaret from The Crown (and Jason Statham's sister in the Fast and Furious spinoff movie).

Vanessa Kirby's thirteen years younger than Pascal. I really don't give a shit about the age gap discourse (I'm lying, I think it's completely hysterical) but this surprises me. I thought they were trying to get away from the idea of an age gap between Reed and Sue.

Like, people know who the Fantastic Four are, but how many people are pumped by the Fantastic Four as characters?

It feels like Marvel's got caught in the middle between all these people whining about characters no-one's heard of and "Reed Richards is meant to be an old dude with kids" and ended up jumping straight into a minefield for no good reason. Maybe Disney's right at and no-one actually gives a shit about age gaps.

Look, unless this film is specifically a time travel story about a man, his wife, his best friend and his brother-in-law trying to make a time machine and giving themselves superpowers as a side effect of travelling from the 1960s to today, cue fish out of water 60s scientists try and make sense of the future story, this announcement is pretty much everything I was afraid an MCU Fantastic Four movie was going to be. It has no genuine ideas of its own and is instead chasing superficial ideas and trendy castings that betray a lack of confidence in the premise.

Really, really scared of what Feige's going to do to the X-Men now. Like, more than I was before. Fire him Disney.

Um...this is really just a casting announcement and a vague notion of when the movie is set. I'm not sure how you got all the way to 'it has no genuine ideas unless they use my pitch'.

Also, bit of trivia, Feige's first film gig was shepherding the X-Men to the screen in the first X-men movie. In a way you've already seen a bit of what Feige does with the mutants.

[Pasong Tirad]

Not that I think it's all that important which superhero blockbuster does more or less money...I could just, like, enjoy movies.

This is my only contribution to The Discourse. I've no experience in casting (kind of - I was an AD for a theater production once - which I have been told is a lot different to how assistant directors work in film - so I was there during auditions and I gave some input but The Boss - great guy, btw, still doing fantastic work in the Philippine theater scene - was already set on who he wanted to cast for his leads) so I'll be reserving judgment because I don't want to end up like one of those "oH tHiS cAsTiNg DeCiSiOn SuCkS tHeY ShOuLd HaVe CaSt tHiS gUy oR GaL.

Hope it does well. And, really, two superhero blockbusters in one summer? What a treat!

[GCMG]

Um...this is really just a casting announcement and a vague notion of when the movie is set. I'm not sure how you got all the way to 'it has no genuine ideas unless they use my pitch'.

I think it has no genuine ideas because it is a trendy cast that's been announced in a way that deliberately draws attention to the creative void of "let's do the Fantastic Four but set in the 1960s". No-one who wants that has ever explained that idea beyond "that's how it is in the original comics" and the reason for that is that it's a bad idea.*

If this was some left field cast, if this wasn't trying to make itself look like a 1960s setting, then I wouldn't say it's creatively bankrupt. But it's not. It's done both of those things. Hell, it wouldn't be an issue, maybe I'd even be excited, if it was a standalone film not part of the MCU. But it's not that either.

*Such a setting requires some kind of time travel at some point, which means such a setting requires that the plot be about time travel. If the plot isn't about time travel, that setting shouldn't be used. If you want to see what happens when the time travel is meaningless to the story, just rewatch The First Avenger or Captain Marvel. Those films aren't fantastic in their own rights, so maybe that's the actual problem but I don't think it is. I think both of those movies may as well not actually exist. Aside from Coulson's fanboying and two conversations (one in Avengers, one in Winter Soldier), those settings mean nothing to the characters. The periodicity of the stories and characters is entirely superficial. You can argue that maybe it's possible to give the settings meaning through the characters, but we've seen that the MCU is barely able to keep a character's storyline straight so I'll disagree there.

Also, bit of trivia, Feige's first film gig was shepherding the X-Men to the screen in the first X-men movie. In a way you've already seen a bit of what Feige does with the mutants.

This is one of the things that scares me, yes.

The only saving grace is that First Class already did the "let's do the X-Men in the 1960s" idea, so we'll probably be spared that idea from Feige.

[Cannot think of a name]

Not that I think it's all that important which superhero blockbuster does more or less money...I could just, like, enjoy movies.

This is my only contribution to The Discourse. I've no experience in casting (kind of - I was an AD for a theater production once - which I have been told is a lot different to how assistant directors work in film - so I was there during auditions and I gave some input but The Boss - great guy, btw, still doing fantastic work in the Philippine theater scene - was already set on who he wanted to cast for his leads) so I'll be reserving judgment because I don't want to end up like one of those "oH tHiS cAsTiNg DeCiSiOn SuCkS tHeY ShOuLd HaVe CaSt tHiS gUy oR GaL.

Hope it does well. And, really, two superhero blockbusters in one summer? What a treat!

We've been getting like 6-8 which wasn't as much of a treat as it started to feel like a burden. Especially since if one doesn't end up on the highest grossing list of all time we apparently need to write 50 obituaries for the genre.

Also, complaining about casting is almost as old as the superhero movie as a modern thing.

[Cannot think of a name]

Um...this is really just a casting announcement and a vague notion of when the movie is set. I'm not sure how you got all the way to 'it has no genuine ideas unless they use my pitch'.

I think it has no genuine ideas because it is a trendy cast that's been announced in a way that deliberately draws attention to the creative void of "let's do the Fantastic Four but set in the 1960s". No-one who wants that has ever explained that idea beyond "that's how it is in the original comics" and the reason for that is that it's a bad idea.*

If this was some left field cast, if this wasn't trying to make itself look like a 1960s setting, then I wouldn't say it's creatively bankrupt. But it's not. It's done both of those things. Hell, it wouldn't be an issue, maybe I'd even be excited, if it was a standalone film not part of the MCU. But it's not that either.

*Such a setting requires some kind of time travel at some point, which means such a setting requires that the plot be about time travel. If the plot isn't about time travel, that setting shouldn't be used. If you want to see what happens when the time travel is meaningless to the story, just rewatch The First Avenger or Captain Marvel. Those films aren't fantastic in their own rights, so maybe that's the actual problem but I don't think it is. I think both of those movies may as well not actually exist. Aside from Coulson's fanboying and two conversations (one in Avengers, one in Winter Soldier), those settings mean nothing to the characters. The periodicity of the stories and characters is entirely superficial. You can argue that maybe it's possible to give the settings meaning through the characters, but we've seen that the MCU is barely able to keep a character's storyline straight so I'll disagree there.

Also, bit of trivia, Feige's first film gig was shepherding the X-Men to the screen in the first X-men movie. In a way you've already seen a bit of what Feige does with the mutants.

This is one of the things that scares me, yes.

The only saving grace is that First Class already did the "let's do the X-Men in the 1960s" idea, so we'll probably be spared that idea from Feige.

Well. Enjoy that I guess. There's too many leaps and bounds for me to chase down and you seem pretty committed to being mad about this, so I'll let you do you. I don't have Disney stocks.