NATION

PASSWORD

MCU Discussion Thread

A coffee shop for those who like to discuss art, music, books, movies, TV, each other's own works, and existential angst.

Advertisement

Remove ads

Should we include X-Men and other non MCU topics in this thread?

Yes, all Marvel films should be discussed here
75
60%
No, keep this discussion MCU exclusive
50
40%
 
Total votes : 125

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:50 pm

Olthar wrote:
Liriena wrote:X-Men and X-2 will always be classics and the spiritual forebearers of the current generation of superhero movies. And the first two movies with the new cast (First Class and Days Of Future Past) were great. But I think Apocalypse proved that the franchise as a whole is kind of running on fumes at this point, at least as a big action blockbuster franchise with a big cast.

X1 and X2 were good for the time, but that was a time when "good superhero movie" was almost an oxymoron. They haven't aged well and are now firmly in the mediocre camp when compared to the MCU.

To be fair, the MCU kinda set an impossible standard for all PG-13 comic book adaptations. :P

Olthar wrote:First Class was decent, I though, but Days of Future Past was nothing but a shallow Wolverine ego trip.

To be fair, most of the X-Men franchise has been at least a bit of a Wolverine ego trip. Which suuuuuuuuuuucks. I hope that, if and when they join the MCU, the X-Men will get more variety in their leads.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7884
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:52 pm

Liriena wrote:
The first Galactic Republic wrote:Implying Marvel cares about character arcs.

The character arcs established by solo movies generally go out the window for the crisis crossover Avengers movies.

Which, to be fair, is how it works in the comics.

This is true... and we saw a bit of that in Infinity War, but unless the next Thor movie is directed by some hack, I don't see them turning back the clock on Thor or Loki's characters.

I've heard that Hemsworth and Taika Waititi are willing to go for a Thor 4 - or, Thor 3 since Thor: Ragnarok is basically a soft reboot that says "yeah Thor 2 did happen but we're just gonna ignore it, how about that?"
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals." - Gustavo Gutierrez



User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:55 pm

Liriena wrote:
Olthar wrote:X1 and X2 were good for the time, but that was a time when "good superhero movie" was almost an oxymoron. They haven't aged well and are now firmly in the mediocre camp when compared to the MCU.

To be fair, the MCU kinda set an impossible standard for all PG-13 comic book adaptations. :P

Not really? I mean, they're good movies, but they're no Citizen Kane. It shouldn't be too hard to match or even surpass them.

Olthar wrote:First Class was decent, I though, but Days of Future Past was nothing but a shallow Wolverine ego trip.

To be fair, most of the X-Men franchise has been at least a bit of a Wolverine ego trip. Which suuuuuuuuuuucks. I hope that, if and when they join the MCU, the X-Men will get more variety in their leads.

Part of the reason that I'm more lenient towards Apocalypse than some is the fact that Wolverine just gets a cameo.
Last edited by Olthar on Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:56 pm

Random thought, but after re-watching Infinity War for, like, the tenth time, I'm firmly convinced that it's the Mad Max: Fury Road or Mission: Impossible - Fallout of superhero movies. I mean it in the sense that it's the purest and most competently made work of art within its own genre. It's the quintessential, platonic ideal of a live-action superhero movie.

Nolan's The Dark Knight is probably (most likely) a better film, but it's not a "pure" superhero movie. It's an amazing crime thriller with Batman characters grafted on top. But Infinity War doesn't paper over its comic book roots by adopting a completely different genre's aesthetics, plot structure or characterization to work.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:57 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:This is true... and we saw a bit of that in Infinity War, but unless the next Thor movie is directed by some hack, I don't see them turning back the clock on Thor or Loki's characters.

I've heard that Hemsworth and Taika Waititi are willing to go for a Thor 4 - or, Thor 3 since Thor: Ragnarok is basically a soft reboot that says "yeah Thor 2 did happen but we're just gonna ignore it, how about that?"

A part of me still feels a bit of longing for what might have been if they hadn't completely changed the Thor series' tone and style... but good gawd, did Taika Waititi do a good job throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:58 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:This is true... and we saw a bit of that in Infinity War, but unless the next Thor movie is directed by some hack, I don't see them turning back the clock on Thor or Loki's characters.

I've heard that Hemsworth and Taika Waititi are willing to go for a Thor 4 - or, Thor 3 since Thor: Ragnarok is basically a soft reboot that says "yeah Thor 2 did happen but we're just gonna ignore it, how about that?"

I firmly believe that this new Thor can replace Tony as the defacto "main character" of the MCU if they can just make another movie that's as great as Ragnarok.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:01 pm

Olthar wrote:
Liriena wrote:To be fair, the MCU kinda set an impossible standard for all PG-13 comic book adaptations. :P

Not really? I mean, they're good movies, but they're no Citizen Kane. It shouldn't be too hard to match or even surpass them.

There's a lot of room for improvement, but nobody seems to have figured out how to use the basic template they've created to make good stuff outside of Kevin Feige's sphere of influence. I mean, the best we've got so far is Deadpool, Logan and Wonder Woman, and the first two are R-rated and smaller in scale.

To be fair, most of the X-Men franchise has been at least a bit of a Wolverine ego trip. Which suuuuuuuuuuucks. I hope that, if and when they join the MCU, the X-Men will get more variety in their leads.

Part of the reason that I'm more lenient towards Apocalypse than some is the fact that Wolverine just gets a cameo.

Someday we're finally gonna get an X-Men movie led by Kitty Pryde and I can't wait.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:02 pm

Liriena wrote:Random thought, but after re-watching Infinity War for, like, the tenth time, I'm firmly convinced that it's the Mad Max: Fury Road or Mission: Impossible - Fallout of superhero movies. I mean it in the sense that it's the purest and most competently made work of art within its own genre. It's the quintessential, platonic ideal of a live-action superhero movie.

Nolan's The Dark Knight is probably (most likely) a better film, but it's not a "pure" superhero movie. It's an amazing crime thriller with Batman characters grafted on top. But Infinity War doesn't paper over its comic book roots by adopting a completely different genre's aesthetics, plot structure or characterization to work.

I agree with the point, but I have to disagree on the statement that Dark knight was a better movie. It was good, but not great. I loved it when it came out, but not so much anymore. Rises was so bad that it actually did taint the first two. It shined a light on various flaws that have been there since the beginning but used to be hidden. Now, though, I know they're there and can't ignore them. If Rose's had never been made, then I might agree with you here, but as it stands, I'd say most of the MCU is far better.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:04 pm

Olthar wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I've heard that Hemsworth and Taika Waititi are willing to go for a Thor 4 - or, Thor 3 since Thor: Ragnarok is basically a soft reboot that says "yeah Thor 2 did happen but we're just gonna ignore it, how about that?"

I firmly believe that this new Thor can replace Tony as the defacto "main character" of the MCU if they can just make another movie that's as great as Ragnarok.

BREAKING NEWS: Zack Snyder and David Ayer replace Taika Waititi as directors for Thor 4, announce that Thor is now Jesus and also a blood psychopath who never smiles. Jesse Eisenberg will play Doctor Doom.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:05 pm

Olthar wrote:
Liriena wrote:Random thought, but after re-watching Infinity War for, like, the tenth time, I'm firmly convinced that it's the Mad Max: Fury Road or Mission: Impossible - Fallout of superhero movies. I mean it in the sense that it's the purest and most competently made work of art within its own genre. It's the quintessential, platonic ideal of a live-action superhero movie.

Nolan's The Dark Knight is probably (most likely) a better film, but it's not a "pure" superhero movie. It's an amazing crime thriller with Batman characters grafted on top. But Infinity War doesn't paper over its comic book roots by adopting a completely different genre's aesthetics, plot structure or characterization to work.

I agree with the point, but I have to disagree on the statement that Dark knight was a better movie. It was good, but not great. I loved it when it came out, but not so much anymore. Rises was so bad that it actually did taint the first two. It shined a light on various flaws that have been there since the beginning but used to be hidden. Now, though, I know they're there and can't ignore them. If Rose's had never been made, then I might agree with you here, but as it stands, I'd say most of the MCU is far better.

Well now I'm intrigued. What flaws did Rises make you notice?
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:07 pm

Olthar wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I've heard that Hemsworth and Taika Waititi are willing to go for a Thor 4 - or, Thor 3 since Thor: Ragnarok is basically a soft reboot that says "yeah Thor 2 did happen but we're just gonna ignore it, how about that?"

I firmly believe that this new Thor can replace Tony as the defacto "main character" of the MCU if they can just make another movie that's as great as Ragnarok.

I think it's very likely that Captain Marvel and Thor are gonna be the new "main characters" of the MCU, with Thor as a sort of transitional leader.

Also, I want Hulkling and Wiccan in the MCU before the end of Phase 29, please. :P
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:07 pm

Liriena wrote:
Olthar wrote:I agree with the point, but I have to disagree on the statement that Dark knight was a better movie. It was good, but not great. I loved it when it came out, but not so much anymore. Rises was so bad that it actually did taint the first two. It shined a light on various flaws that have been there since the beginning but used to be hidden. Now, though, I know they're there and can't ignore them. If Rose's had never been made, then I might agree with you here, but as it stands, I'd say most of the MCU is far better.

Well now I'm intrigued. What flaws did Rises make you notice?

It's been, like, six years now. I'd have to rewatch it to remember the specifics, and I don't feel like doing that. Sorry.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:09 pm

Olthar wrote:
Liriena wrote:Well now I'm intrigued. What flaws did Rises make you notice?

It's been, like, six years now. I'd have to rewatch it to remember the specifics, and I don't feel like doing that. Sorry.

That's alright :P Just felt a bit curious.

Weirdly, the opposite happened to me with some MCU movies. Like, I really disliked Iron Man 3 the first time I saw it, but it's grown on me a lot since Infinity War... even if I still think that Aldrich Killian is lame.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:11 pm

Liriena wrote:
Olthar wrote:I firmly believe that this new Thor can replace Tony as the defacto "main character" of the MCU if they can just make another movie that's as great as Ragnarok.

I think it's very likely that Captain Marvel and Thor are gonna be the new "main characters" of the MCU, with Thor as a sort of transitional leader.

Also, I want Hulkling and Wiccan in the MCU before the end of Phase 29, please. :P

I really hope Captain Marvel is awesome so that the industry as a whole starts to realize that female leads can carry action movies. Or, should I say, remember. They seemed to understand that in the 80s.

I don't know who either of those characters are, but it would be cool for She Hulk to show up. I also would enjoy a Squirrel Girl movie. :p
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Olthar
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:13 pm

Liriena wrote:
Olthar wrote:It's been, like, six years now. I'd have to rewatch it to remember the specifics, and I don't feel like doing that. Sorry.

That's alright :P Just felt a bit curious.

Weirdly, the opposite happened to me with some MCU movies. Like, I really disliked Iron Man 3 the first time I saw it, but it's grown on me a lot since Infinity War... even if I still think that Aldrich Killian is lame.

That one I always thought was on the upper end of mediocre. The villain sucked, but it had some good scenes.
The Second Cataclysm: My New RP

Roll Them Bones: A Guide to Dice RPs

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7884
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:23 pm

Liriena wrote:Random thought, but after re-watching Infinity War for, like, the tenth time, I'm firmly convinced that it's the Mad Max: Fury Road or Mission: Impossible - Fallout of superhero movies. I mean it in the sense that it's the purest and most competently made work of art within its own genre. It's the quintessential, platonic ideal of a live-action superhero movie.

Nolan's The Dark Knight is probably (most likely) a better film, but it's not a "pure" superhero movie. It's an amazing crime thriller with Batman characters grafted on top. But Infinity War doesn't paper over its comic book roots by adopting a completely different genre's aesthetics, plot structure or characterization to work.

It's kind of weird to talk about what is or isn't a "pure" superhero movie, though, since a lot of films within the MCU don't necessarily fall under this category. Captain America: Winter Soldier is a political action thriller - with superheroes. Ant-Man is a heist comedy - with superheroes. Spider-Man: Homecoming is an 80s-style coming-of-age movie - with superheroes. Part of what makes the MCU great is how it feels like they're mixing things up and just agreeing "yep, genre is dead, let's make a comedic space roadtrip film with superheroes."
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals." - Gustavo Gutierrez



User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:24 pm

Olthar wrote:
Liriena wrote:I think it's very likely that Captain Marvel and Thor are gonna be the new "main characters" of the MCU, with Thor as a sort of transitional leader.

Also, I want Hulkling and Wiccan in the MCU before the end of Phase 29, please. :P

I really hope Captain Marvel is awesome so that the industry as a whole starts to realize that female leads can carry action movies. Or, should I say, remember. They seemed to understand that in the 80s.

I don't know who either of those characters are, but it would be cool for She Hulk to show up. I also would enjoy a Squirrel Girl movie. :p

Agreed. And I have increasingly high hopes for Captain Marvel, tbh. It looks like the filmmakers are trying to make something cool and new (or at least, as new as another MCU origin story can be).

Hulkling, IIRC, is a sort of half-Skrull dude or something. Wiccan is the Scarlett Witch's reincarnated son or something? Anyway, I mostly want them because they're the gay couple of the comics.

She Hulk tho... hell yeah.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:26 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:Random thought, but after re-watching Infinity War for, like, the tenth time, I'm firmly convinced that it's the Mad Max: Fury Road or Mission: Impossible - Fallout of superhero movies. I mean it in the sense that it's the purest and most competently made work of art within its own genre. It's the quintessential, platonic ideal of a live-action superhero movie.

Nolan's The Dark Knight is probably (most likely) a better film, but it's not a "pure" superhero movie. It's an amazing crime thriller with Batman characters grafted on top. But Infinity War doesn't paper over its comic book roots by adopting a completely different genre's aesthetics, plot structure or characterization to work.

It's kind of weird to talk about what is or isn't a "pure" superhero movie, though, since a lot of films within the MCU don't necessarily fall under this category. Captain America: Winter Soldier is a political action thriller - with superheroes. Ant-Man is a heist comedy - with superheroes. Spider-Man: Homecoming is an 80s-style coming-of-age movie - with superheroes. Part of what makes the MCU great is how it feels like they're mixing things up and just agreeing "yep, genre is dead, let's make a comedic space roadtrip film with superheroes."

When I say "pure", I don't mean it as a sort of mark of quality. As you said, Winter Soldier is a political action thriller, and it's one of the best movies in the MCU. Breaking the genre mold has done wonders for the MCU and I hope they keep doing that going forward.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7884
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:33 pm

Liriena wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:It's kind of weird to talk about what is or isn't a "pure" superhero movie, though, since a lot of films within the MCU don't necessarily fall under this category. Captain America: Winter Soldier is a political action thriller - with superheroes. Ant-Man is a heist comedy - with superheroes. Spider-Man: Homecoming is an 80s-style coming-of-age movie - with superheroes. Part of what makes the MCU great is how it feels like they're mixing things up and just agreeing "yep, genre is dead, let's make a comedic space roadtrip film with superheroes."

When I say "pure", I don't mean it as a sort of mark of quality. As you said, Winter Soldier is a political action thriller, and it's one of the best movies in the MCU. Breaking the genre mold has done wonders for the MCU and I hope they keep doing that going forward.

Oh yes of course. What I'm simply saying is it's pretty difficult now to categorize what is or isn't "purely" a superhero film. Arguably, of course, there's the three Avengers flicks. But also arguably, none of them since a "pure" superhero genre film doesn't exist.
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals." - Gustavo Gutierrez



User avatar
Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 3920
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:34 pm

The double posts hurt me in my soul :p

Also I'm not sure Deadpool & 2 really count as superhero movies...

Edit: My lame attempt to connect it to other stuff in the thread
Last edited by Lord Dominator on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrGameplay Ambassador of ForestLieutenant in The Black HawksRecruitment and Outreach Director of Lazarus

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:37 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:The double posts hurt me in my soul :p

Also I'm not sure Deadpool & 2 really count as superhero movies...

Edit: My lame attempt to connect it to other stuff in the thread

Yeah, I think they both count, but specially Deadpool 2.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53470
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:37 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Liriena wrote:When I say "pure", I don't mean it as a sort of mark of quality. As you said, Winter Soldier is a political action thriller, and it's one of the best movies in the MCU. Breaking the genre mold has done wonders for the MCU and I hope they keep doing that going forward.

Oh yes of course. What I'm simply saying is it's pretty difficult now to categorize what is or isn't "purely" a superhero film. Arguably, of course, there's the three Avengers flicks. But also arguably, none of them since a "pure" superhero genre film doesn't exist.

It's a good point.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7884
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:The double posts hurt me in my soul :p

Also I'm not sure Deadpool & 2 really count as superhero movies...

Edit: My lame attempt to connect it to other stuff in the thread

It's all so confusing, that even the presence of actual comic book superheroes makes people question "But is it really a superhero film?" :p
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals." - Gustavo Gutierrez



User avatar
Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 3920
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:55 pm

I was more saying that in the sense that DP isn't exactly what one usually calls a superhero (though the argument is better for DP2) :lol:
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrGameplay Ambassador of ForestLieutenant in The Black HawksRecruitment and Outreach Director of Lazarus

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7884
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:07 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:I was more saying that in the sense that DP isn't exactly what one usually calls a superhero (though the argument is better for DP2) :lol:

Precisely my point as well. Simply putting on spandex is no longer enough to constitute "superhero." :lol:
"If there is no friendship with [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals." - Gustavo Gutierrez



PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Arts & Fiction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andsed, Google [Bot], Valrifell

Advertisement

Remove ads