MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Forsher]

I mean, it could be the case that by the time she started looking, they'd already reincarnated.

Someone was suggesting on the subreddit that a way of bringing Wanda back would be to have her have an adventure in Hell. Finally give the fans the Mephisto appearance they've been clamouring for, sort of thing.

Anyway, I was thinking, what if the kid's dad in universes like 838 where they're not artificial constructs created by magic is Simon Williams and this is why Vision wasn't around?

Who?

You may have heard of him as Wonder Man.

The idea was on my mind mostly because of this post:

Oh, right. Wonder Man. Wonder Man is getting his own series. Maybe they'll shoehorn in the whole 'Vision's personality is a imprint of Wonder Man' thing where he restores Vision 2.0 (sorry, a white bald guy going "White Vision"...doesn't feel right. ymmv) empathy/personality/whatever. Vision 2.0, Wonder Man, Moon Knight...three more members to a West Coast Avengers?

But perhaps more usefully:

The Scarlet Witch—the Vision's wife—asks Wonder Man to provide his brainwaves once again in order to rebuild the foundational personality matrix of the original Vision, but Wonder Man refuses, having feelings for her himself. The Wasp further deduces that the Vision's original relationship to the Scarlet Witch may even have been predicated by Wonder Man's initial donation for the original personality matrix; at this, Wonder Man confirms that several of his hesitations about making the attempt arise from these doubts and the subconscious desire he's felt toward the Scarlet Witch since her separation from her husband.[29] He is then ensorcelled by the Enchantress, and battles the Avengers.[30]

Which is context that comes to me mostly through:

Exiles
A version of Wonder Man appears in Exiles on an alternate world ruled by Tony Stark. Simon Williams was 20 feet away when a Gamma Bomb was dropped on the Hulk in an attempt to kill the Hulk. It worked but Simon absorbed the Gamma Radiation and with his already ionic body ended up a whole new monster: Tony Stark killed the Hulk but made another, in Simon Williams, that he described as being "just a little stronger". Simon lives in isolation with the Scarlet Witch and a legless version of Doctor Strange. When Weapon-X member The Spider threatened the Scarlet Witch, Simon "Hulked out" to gigantic size. Eventually the Weapon-X team trapped him and an alternate She-Hulk in the Negative Zone.[volume & issue needed]

That Weapon X is basically just a multiversal Marvel version of the Suicide Squad. The She-Hulk they sent to the Negative Zone was their own team-mate.

Wonder Man's brother's also a pretty important Vision bad guy, incidentally... and I think was the subject of an easter egg in WandaVision. Yep.

[Cannot think of a name]

This doesn't spoil Ms Marvel or the other shows since it's background noise, but...

...it seems that post Blip, Ant-man has emerged as a star Avenger despite Strange's quip about about 'various bug themed heroes'. Ant Man is in the 'Battle of New York' for the Rogers musical. He has a podcast apparently. He's part of inspirational murals. It's still not clear if they have told people that not only did they defeat Thanos and bring back half of existence (minus anyone who came back in inherently dangerous situations) but they also cracked time travel. In a reality full of super scientists letting people know it's possible and the rough method they used means...


Kang! Literally occurred to me while I was writing it. They could have Kang's origin essentially be backwards engineering the time travel techniques from Endgame.

Anyway, more was fascinated by the groundwork being laid out of Ant-man going from can't get kids to take his picture to A list Avenger.

[Kiddian States]

This doesn't spoil Ms Marvel or the other shows since it's background noise, but...

...it seems that post Blip, Ant-man has emerged as a star Avenger despite Strange's quip about about 'various bug themed heroes'. Ant Man is in the 'Battle of New York' for the Rogers musical. He has a podcast apparently. He's part of inspirational murals. It's still not clear if they have told people that not only did they defeat Thanos and bring back half of existence (minus anyone who came back in inherently dangerous situations) but they also cracked time travel. In a reality full of super scientists letting people know it's possible and the rough method they used means...


Kang! Literally occurred to me while I was writing it. They could have Kang's origin essentially be backwards engineering the time travel techniques from Endgame.

Anyway, more was fascinated by the groundwork being laid out of Ant-man going from can't get kids to take his picture to A list Avenger.

I blame his Paul Ruddiness =P
It probably made his podcast really popular which made him really famous which elevated him to top tier avenger

[Lord Dominator]

Re: Children’s Crusade

Obviously she screwed up by looking for them as directly twins or being the age she knew or whatever, not older teens in separate families - the whole reincarnated in the past I like to poke fun at (in so far as that’s my relative understanding of how they got that way in the comics). Or something

I mean, it could be the case that by the time she started looking, they'd already reincarnated.

I mean, that was basically my suggestion (if poorly
phrased)

Someone was suggesting on the subreddit that a way of bringing Wanda back would be to have her have an adventure in Hell. Finally give the fans the Mephisto appearance they've been clamouring for, sort of thing.

Sounds fun, tbh - assuming they wouldn’t just go with the other proposal of “she didn’t die in the first place.” Which incidentally brings up the other reason for Children’s Crusade thoughts - she spent the intervening years with amnesia, at least some of the time in Latveria and eventually nearly marrying Doom (incidentally some of my favorite comics scenes for some sheer wtf).

Anyway, I was thinking, what if the kid's dad in universes like 838 where they're not artificial constructs created by magic is Simon Williams and this is why Vision wasn't around?

Seems a bit complicated tbh. Just say it was a mgic-induced pregnancy or that Vision can have bio kids, or that the problem was the attachment to the Hex rather than the magic (that is, with a living Vision, could’ve done the same things minus the Hex because she wouldn’t have made it. Incidentally, these thoughts made me realize the 838 Billy and Tommy are too old - they look more than 6, which is the max they could logically be if they came right around IW in a world without a snap. Either there’s magic already, 838 is “ahead” in the timeline, or she had them sometime rather earlier.

[Lord Dominator]

snip

would bet it’s because he’s vaguely relatable (dude just has cool tech he got from someone else) and the general esteem afforded to any Avengers. Bet it helps he doesn’t really have the same negative stigma - his rogue moves were minor (even Woo as parole officer liked him) and his prior crime was apparently robin hood esque.

[Cannot think of a name]

snip

would bet it’s because he’s vaguely relatable (dude just has cool tech he got from someone else) and the general esteem afforded to any Avengers. Bet it helps he doesn’t really have the same negative stigma - his rogue moves were minor (even Woo as parole officer liked him) and his prior crime was apparently robin hood esque.

He's easily the most relatable. He's not a billionaire, super spy, leader of a technologically advanced nation, an Asgardian god, a genius, an emotionally unstable being destined to either destroy or rule the world, an android, a super soldier...like you said, just some dude who got a suit. I guess the same could be said of Sam but he's a special forces guy kinda like super spy.

You know, after Falcon is all Avenger fighting Thanos etc, no one in the military went, "Wait, we need to start this program back up. Look at just one guy with wings can do."

[Lord Dominator]

Further point of possible Wanda reappearance: House or Harkness, since I was just reminded that’s going to be a thing - presuming it’s not a prequel.

[Cannot think of a name]

Random observation that should not be taken as seriously as it sounds...

I was musing on the ways Thor and Wanda have dealt with loss and trauma in different and interesting ways and realized with the amount of shit that most of the other Avengers have been through and have to deal with, Tony breaking up the team over some unprocessed feelings about the death of his parents seems kinda petty.

Again, don't take that as seriously as it sounds. In reality he was confronted with his parents killer who turns out to be the best friend of the guy he thinks his dad loved more than him. That's gonna leave a mark.

[Christian Confederation]

snip

would bet it’s because he’s vaguely relatable (dude just has cool tech he got from someone else) and the general esteem afforded to any Avengers. Bet it helps he doesn’t really have the same negative stigma - his rogue moves were minor (even Woo as parole officer liked him) and his prior crime was apparently robin hood esque.

I would honestly listen to the Ant-man podcast. I guarantee Louis is cohost. Would Ant-man have beef with Joe Rogan or would they be friends? Does he interview people or just ramble about random sh*t for 2-3 hours?

[Cannot think of a name]

would bet it’s because he’s vaguely relatable (dude just has cool tech he got from someone else) and the general esteem afforded to any Avengers. Bet it helps he doesn’t really have the same negative stigma - his rogue moves were minor (even Woo as parole officer liked him) and his prior crime was apparently robin hood esque.

I would honestly listen to the Ant-man podcast. I guarantee Louis is cohost. Would Ant-man have beef with Joe Rogan or would they be friends? Does he interview people or just ramble about random sh*t for 2-3 hours?

You're not alone.

[Christian Confederation]

I would honestly listen to the Ant-man podcast. I guarantee Louis is cohost. Would Ant-man have beef with Joe Rogan or would they be friends? Does he interview people or just ramble about random sh*t for 2-3 hours?

You're not alone.

Neat. Honestly though Paul Rudd would probably be down.

[HC Eredivisie]

Seems a bit complicated tbh. Just say it was a mgic-induced pregnancy or that Vision can have bio kids, or that the problem was the attachment to the Hex rather than the magic (that is, with a living Vision, could’ve done the same things minus the Hex because she wouldn’t have made it. Incidentally, these thoughts made me realize the 838 Billy and Tommy are too old - they look more than 6, which is the max they could logically be if they came right around IW in a world without a snap. Either there’s magic already, 838 is “ahead” in the timeline, or she had them sometime rather earlier.

Maybe her kids were born earlier in a world without Vision, 838-Thanos is missing the Mind Stone when he's fighting the Illuminati on Titan and Ultron isn't evil either.

I was wondering about why Wanda didn't look for a universe where her children were orphans so she could raise those, but she can't dreamwalk in a universe where she's dead. To get there she would need America Chavez as well.

Random observation that should not be taken as seriously as it sounds...

I was musing on the ways Thor and Wanda have dealt with loss and trauma in different and interesting ways and realized with the amount of shit that most of the other Avengers have been through and have to deal with, Tony breaking up the team over some unprocessed feelings about the death of his parents seems kinda petty.

Again, don't take that as seriously as it sounds. In reality he was confronted with his parents killer who turns out to be the best friend of the guy he thinks his dad loved more than him. That's gonna leave a mark.

Don't forget the PTSD of dying in Avengers, that he made Ultron as defence of the world but failed and half of the Avengers didn;t want to sign the Sokovia accords.

[Cannot think of a name]

Seems a bit complicated tbh. Just say it was a mgic-induced pregnancy or that Vision can have bio kids, or that the problem was the attachment to the Hex rather than the magic (that is, with a living Vision, could’ve done the same things minus the Hex because she wouldn’t have made it. Incidentally, these thoughts made me realize the 838 Billy and Tommy are too old - they look more than 6, which is the max they could logically be if they came right around IW in a world without a snap. Either there’s magic already, 838 is “ahead” in the timeline, or she had them sometime rather earlier.

Maybe her kids were born earlier in a world without Vision, 838-Thanos is missing the Mind Stone when he's fighting the Illuminati on Titan and Ultron isn't evil either.

I was wondering about why Wanda didn't look for a universe where her children were orphans so she could raise those, but she can't dreamwalk in a universe where she's dead. To get there she would need America Chavez as well.

Isn't evil yet.

Random observation that should not be taken as seriously as it sounds...

I was musing on the ways Thor and Wanda have dealt with loss and trauma in different and interesting ways and realized with the amount of shit that most of the other Avengers have been through and have to deal with, Tony breaking up the team over some unprocessed feelings about the death of his parents seems kinda petty.

Again, don't take that as seriously as it sounds. In reality he was confronted with his parents killer who turns out to be the best friend of the guy he thinks his dad loved more than him. That's gonna leave a mark.

Don't forget the PTSD of dying in Avengers, that he made Ultron as defence of the world but failed and half of the Avengers didn;t want to sign the Sokovia accords.

You don't get PTSD from dying unless you come back. His beef with the Avengers not wanting to sign the accord to stop him from doing things like the thing those same Avengers emphatically told him not to do in the first place is kind of a wash and wasn't as big a deal to him as Bucky's role in his parents death. Though for the beef that Iron Man 3 gets it did deal rather 'realistically' (insomuch as I loath that word applied to superhero movies and the near impossibility of determining how it would effect people) with how much being invaded by a space army led by a guy who had been a myth a couple months before hand and having to guide a nuclear missile shot by his own country at him into space through a portal and then fall all the way back to the ground in your suit of armor would really shake one's confidence. And lead to the kind of crazy decisions like 'lets take this bit of technology we clearly don't understand and build a super robot out of it to protect the earth" are made.

[The Black Forrest]

Finally saw Multiverse. That was a suck fest. Probably would have been better if I was stoned. Still; I would have been pissed to pay theater prices to see that mess….

[Lord Dominator]

Seems a bit complicated tbh. Just say it was a mgic-induced pregnancy or that Vision can have bio kids, or that the problem was the attachment to the Hex rather than the magic (that is, with a living Vision, could’ve done the same things minus the Hex because she wouldn’t have made it. Incidentally, these thoughts made me realize the 838 Billy and Tommy are too old - they look more than 6, which is the max they could logically be if they came right around IW in a world without a snap. Either there’s magic already, 838 is “ahead” in the timeline, or she had them sometime rather earlier.

Maybe her kids were born earlier in a world without Vision, 838-Thanos is missing the Mind Stone when he's fighting the Illuminati on Titan and Ultron isn't evil either.

I was wondering about why Wanda didn't look for a universe where her children were orphans so she could raise those, but she can't dreamwalk in a universe where she's dead. To get there she would need America Chavez as well.

Thing is, no matter when they were born something has to give - the actors for Billy and Tommy are 11 & 13 respectively, and they’re clearly around those ages as characters. Even with MoM being estimated to take place in early 2025 in the main universe, that’d still bump up into AoU or CW for when they were born (presuming no blip) if not earlier, and you have to shave them down to about 7 to hit IW. Hence, either there’s magic of the 838 timeline is further ahead. Me, I’m betting magic.

Incidentally, as I saw elsewhere, any lack of Vision could easily be answered by assuming he wasn’t nearby at the time (a mission, etc). Similarly, Ultrons that work doesn’t indicate a true lack of AoU - especially since they appear as generic robots basically, and not as the whole “suit or armor around the world” concept.

[Cannot think of a name]

Maybe her kids were born earlier in a world without Vision, 838-Thanos is missing the Mind Stone when he's fighting the Illuminati on Titan and Ultron isn't evil either.

I was wondering about why Wanda didn't look for a universe where her children were orphans so she could raise those, but she can't dreamwalk in a universe where she's dead. To get there she would need America Chavez as well.

Thing is, no matter when they were born something has to give - the actors for Billy and Tommy are 11 & 13 respectively, and they’re clearly around those ages as characters. Even with MoM being estimated to take place in early 2025 in the main universe, that’d still bump up into AoU or CW for when they were born (presuming no blip) if not earlier, and you have to shave them down to about 7 to hit IW. Hence, either there’s magic of the 838 timeline is further ahead. Me, I’m betting magic.

Incidentally, as I saw elsewhere, any lack of Vision could easily be answered by assuming he wasn’t nearby at the time (a mission, etc). Similarly, Ultrons that work doesn’t indicate a true lack of AoU - especially since they appear as generic robots basically, and not as the whole “suit or armor around the world” concept.

The Ultrons looked like pre-Ultrons, the ones that Hank Pym built that became Ultron. They're performing the same function they did before one broke bad.

I wonder if our Doctor Strange will form an Illuminati or if he'll look at the other one and go, "Nah, this was a bad idea..."

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times in this gargantuan thread, but please indulge me, anyway; are you more partial to Marvel or DC and why?

DC makes better cartoons.
Marvel makes better movies.

Agreed.

[Lord Dominator]

Thing is, no matter when they were born something has to give - the actors for Billy and Tommy are 11 & 13 respectively, and they’re clearly around those ages as characters. Even with MoM being estimated to take place in early 2025 in the main universe, that’d still bump up into AoU or CW for when they were born (presuming no blip) if not earlier, and you have to shave them down to about 7 to hit IW. Hence, either there’s magic of the 838 timeline is further ahead. Me, I’m betting magic.

Incidentally, as I saw elsewhere, any lack of Vision could easily be answered by assuming he wasn’t nearby at the time (a mission, etc). Similarly, Ultrons that work doesn’t indicate a true lack of AoU - especially since they appear as generic robots basically, and not as the whole “suit or armor around the world” concept.

The Ultrons looked like pre-Ultrons, the ones that Hank Pym built that became Ultron. They're performing the same function they did before one broke bad.

I wonder if our Doctor Strange will form an Illuminati or if he'll look at the other one and go, "Nah, this was a bad idea..."

You mean in the EMH cartoon? Because the original comics one looked like this at first and turned evil basically immediately

[Cannot think of a name]

The Ultrons looked like pre-Ultrons, the ones that Hank Pym built that became Ultron. They're performing the same function they did before one broke bad.

I wonder if our Doctor Strange will form an Illuminati or if he'll look at the other one and go, "Nah, this was a bad idea..."

You mean in the EMH cartoon? Because the original comics one looked like this at first and turned evil basically immediately

Huh, must be. I'll cop to not being the biggest Avengers fan so some of it's gonna be slipshod for me but that checks out.

Not really a spoiler as much incoherent rambling and musings that are spoilered so as not to be a pain in the ass to scroll by.

Stray thoughts about Moon Knight:

A lot of jokes about how Kohnshu could have just used an app to know what the night sky would have looked like thousands of years ago, but how tech savvy are we assuming the Egyptian moon god of vengeance is supposed to be?

Moon Knight established (consistent with Thor and Black Panther) that everyone gets their own culturally relevant afterlife, but while Spector/Grant/Lockley are the Fist of Kohnshu, they are culturally Jewish. Does he get a mulligan if his heart doesn't balance? Though I guess the Jewish concept of the afterlife is complicated.

No show is going to waste its own limited run time on this but it'd be interesting to see a show deal with the seemingly minor things that happen in other shows that really would have a big effect.

Like, you can't just move the moon around like a balloon and not have that cause all kinds of problems.

I tend to look at what Kohnshu did to the night sky as a visual representation instead of literally rewinding the entire galaxy (we have to presume it but everything back...oh shit, if he did rewind the entire galaxy and left it that way, we'd have a whole new sky but worse than that it would rearrange where everyone was at because space is crowded in the MCU.

Which is all the more reason to believe that it was a visual stunt. I mean, just the effect of the earth spinning that fast in the other direction all of a sudden. Though it's magic bullshit so there's also no reason to assume there isn't an extra level of bullshit that keeps everyone planted.

But someone is dealing with a natural disaster because the moon wasn't in the right place. Or virtually no one knowing why the sky did that or what the hell was up with the kiaju god fight that happened in Cairo.

OOooo...new pitch, because I think this kinda what Agents of SHIELD should have been but they weren't at the 'fire hose' content level at the time nor did they have their own streaming service.

Do Damage Control as a recurring micro series. Every couple chapters you do a three half hour episode run where they have to figure out why there's a calcified giant that popped up out of the ocean and fucked up the tectonic plates, why was there an upredicted eclipse of Cairo, did we really just see three Spider-men fight a bunch of goobers we've never seen before at the statue of liberty? Five goobers? Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Elektro, The Lizard, Sandman. Five goobers.

Goobers.

Thor looks like he's going to fuck off into space to do his business. I suppose we're going to find out that he's hitching a ride with the Guardians because he's lonely and geniunely likes Rocket and Quill...otherwise, Stormbreaker can open portals, he can go wherever the fuck he wants. It's unclear how well known Westview is. All we have is Strange's glib comment about getting back on the lunchbox.

There are people in the MCU who now have collector lunchboxes with Wanda on them.

Anyway, all the shit that happens in the MCU that the average person would see but not know the context for. The micro series would show how those events are spun/sold/reported to the public and be a quick little 'status of the MCU' for people who don't watch e'reything.

[Kiddian States]

Than-O’s: Part of a perfectly balanced breakfast

[Cannot think of a name]

Than-O’s: Part of a perfectly balanced breakfast

If the MCU happened in the 80s, this would be a thing.

[Tarsonis]

Than-O’s: Part of a perfectly balanced breakfast

If the MCU happened in the 80s, this would be a thing.

I don't think I can handle Tom Cruise as Captain America.... maybe Val Kilmer though

[Cannot think of a name]

If the MCU happened in the 80s, this would be a thing.

I don't think I can handle Tom Cruise as Captain America.... maybe Val Kilmer though

I just did an inadvertent Val Kilmer mini fest in that I watched Top Secret and Batman Forever back to back. Even in a movie that he wasn't super into doing once you watch it free of the 'what's this no Michael Keaton not directed by Tim Burton shit?' he's not that bad in it.

Also, since he's blond and taller than Cruise, Kilmer would totally be Captain America. Isn't popular fantasy casting have Tom Cruise as Tony Stark anyway?

The best part though, Vincent Price would have been alive to play Doctor Strange.

Trade off, it probably would have been built off The Incredible Hulk tv series since the specials introduced Thor and Daredevil, you know they kinda wanted to make it into an MCU. I wonder if they'd use forced perspective to make the Hulk seem bigger...

David Hasselhoff already played Nick Fury, so that's a no brainer.

Jean Claude Van Damme as Iron Fist? Not kung fu but I couldn't think of a white kung fu star in the 80s.


I'm sure this has been done a hundred times across the interwebs...

[Christian Confederation]

If we're talking 80s mcu I could see a Michael Fiffer as Black Widow. Dicaprio could possibly be antman or Hawkeye. Idk about Spider-Man.

[Forsher]

Dicaprio could possibly be antman or Hawkeye. Idk about Spider-Man.

He was fifteen in 1989.