MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Pasong Tirad]

And Marvel cares whether or not you know her? If you don't want to watch the show, then don't fucking watch it. Or at the very least, come up with some better arguments than "I don't know her" or "It's depressing," because those things aren't always used as qualifiers to judge whether or not TV shows are good.

They are for me. Same reason I hate Bojack Horseman. I don't watch TV to be bummed out and bored.

Then don't watch it. It's not that difficult to understand.

Plenty of people weren't interested - that is, until the show premiered. And now it's two seasons in and they're making a third. Because people were interested.

Because a shows length...

Automatically makes it quality...

It's certainly not a disqualifier. And it definitely shows, at the very least, that the show has a viewership willing to sit through all the depressing shit that you think makes the shows bad.

Of course it isn't. That's not her superpower. But the detective work makes the show a detective show that happens to have superheroes.

If I want a detective that interacts with superheroes, I'll watch BTAS or Justice League.

Again, the easy solution is just not watch it and move on with your life. You don't hear other people here talking shit about Bojack Horseman and calling for its end because we don't like to watch a depressing TV show we aren't interested in. It's not that hard to let people enjoy things.

[Ameriganastan]

Yeah, how about your drop the snippy attitude? If you wanna get pissy at someone, then get pissy at Knockout Gun Gals. He's the one who brought it back up.

[Pasong Tirad]

Yeah, how about your drop the snippy attitude? If you wanna get pissy at someone, then get pissy at Knockout Gun Gals. He's the one who brought it back up.

Passing blame. Classy. Knockout wasn't the one moaning about how the show sucks because it makes her (him?) sad, that was you. You moaned about how nobody knew who Jessica Jones was, but right before that you followed up your reply to KGG by comparing Marvel and DC's so-called "c-listers," as though everybody knew who those supposed DC "c-listers" were. That's called double standards. And the funny thing is, if you prefer the DC TV shows over the Marvel ones because they're more fun to watch for you - that's totally fine. Nobody's telling you you're trash because you prefer watching Supergirl and Green Arrow over Jessica Jones and Daredevil (at least, I'm not). They're both good TV for fully different reasons.

And that's the catch here that you don't seem to understand. They're two different TV shows with two different approaches to the superhero genre. A lot of it works, a lot of it doesn't, and calling something fun doesn't make it work anymore than calling something sad makes it bad TV.

So, for (hopefully) the last time, how about you just let people enjoy the TV they want to watch, while you go on enjoying the shows that you want to watch?

[Ameriganastan]

Better idea. I'll just put you on ignore. Ta-ta.

[Pasong Tirad]

Better idea. I'll just put you on ignore. Ta-ta.

Ha! I mean, that'll work. It's not an argument, though, it's just you covering your ears and making loud noises.

[The Huskar Social Union]

[Forsher]

I mean, look at the DC shows. Especially Legends. No big Disney-Marvel-Netflix thing to ride on, and populated by c-listers like Commander Steel, Heat Wave, The Atom, Isis and so on. But they make it FUN. Talking about a ghost commanding Elvis, killer unicorns, evil fairy godmothers, this. You wanna do the lesser heroes show? Fine. But don't make it depressing and unfun.

So your argument is: they should make the shows like they make the movies? Yeah, no. Got to keep things varied.

Maybe you just don't like thrillers. Here's a dirty secret Ameri, a lot of people... do.

Oh, please. Jessica Jones was the very bottom of the barrel for Marvel characters. Cripes, I'd literally never heard of her before she got a show. I'd at least seen Iron Fist and Luke Cage in a cartoon. Same with the Guardians and such. But her? No. And I'm not interested in a complete nobody of a character on a dreary, depressing show.

By the way, being a good detective isn't a superpower.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you're in your teens or twenties, i.e. you're too young to have heard of Luke Cage and not Jessica Jones.

Well, in the comics anyway. Which, you know, is where Marvel's character barrel is.

[Ameriganastan]

So your argument is: they should make the shows like they make the movies? Yeah, no. Got to keep things varied.

If varied means dull and depressing, then I say copy the movie formula. Even Agents Of Shield has a little fun sometimes.

Maybe you just don't like thrillers. Here's a dirty secret Ameri, a lot of people... do.

I'm sure there's been a thriller or two I've liked...I can't think of any right now, but I'm sure there's a few.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you're in your teens or twenties, i.e. you're too young to have heard of Luke Cage and not Jessica Jones.

Well, in the comics anyway. Which, you know, is where Marvel's character barrel is.

I'm not a comic reader. Never have been. I learned all my superhero knowledge through cartoon, movies and the occasional Wiki-walk.

I've read like 3 comic books total in my day, and none of them had her in it.

[Cannot think of a name]

Dudes, dudes, dudes. Quit trying to get Mikey to like shit. This is his thing. He’s not going to suddenly go, “Oooh, taste is subjective and fandom is liking something not shitting on it...” You’re not going to pour him a bowl if Life cereal and turn him around. Let him do his thing, then have real discussion without him.

[Ameriganastan]

Dudes, dudes, dudes. Quit trying to get Mikey to like shit. This is his thing. He’s not going to suddenly go, “Oooh, taste is subjective and fandom is liking something not shitting on it...” You’re not going to pour him a bowl if Life cereal and turn him around. Let him do his thing, then have real discussion without him.

...My name isn't Mikey.

[Cannot think of a name]

Dudes, dudes, dudes. Quit trying to get Mikey to like shit. This is his thing. He’s not going to suddenly go, “Oooh, taste is subjective and fandom is liking something not shitting on it...” You’re not going to pour him a bowl if Life cereal and turn him around. Let him do his thing, then have real discussion without him.

...My name isn't Mikey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQ0LZSnJFE

[Olthar]

I understand the desire to get someone to like the things you like, but that doesn't work with Ameri. He likes the things he likes and nothing else. He is very stubborn about his opinions and gets vitriolic when challenged. I realized this quite a while ago now and stopped picking fights with him, and guess what? He stopped picking fights with me, too. Now we get along great, and I've even put him on my friends list. Ameri doesn't change his opinions often and when he does, it's usually by himself. Besides, why should anyone else care what he thinks of things?

[Forsher]

I understand the desire to get someone to like the things you like, but that doesn't work with Ameri.

It's not a question of getting Ameri to like things he does not like. I, too, have known of Ameri's views of cultural productions for a long time... this is like the fourth such thread we both post/ed in (TWD, Avatar and Doctor Who the other three)... but this played no role in my motivation to post. Rather, this:

Cause they're DEPRESSING. And boring. If I wanna watch The Punisher, I'll watch that kick-ass version with Ray Stevenson. Not to mention they're all C-list heroes. I mean who was clamoring for a show about Jessica Jones?

This bit I've put in blue was what I initially responded to... it's a stupid argument regarding the MCU. Ameri didn't directly respond to this, but I feel acknowledged it here. In that post, he returned back to the "Depressing" point which, after all, was his main point since he stuck it before the C-list point without "downplaying" language to introduce it. This opened my eyes to what was really going on here, leading to:

So your argument is: they should make the shows like they make the movies? Yeah, no. Got to keep things varied.

Maybe you just don't like thrillers. Here's a dirty secret Ameri, a lot of people... do.

The argument, therefore, has become less about... not that on my end I think it was ever about... trying to get Ameri to like the MCU but rather to avoid over Amerising it. I think it is fair to say Ameri acknowledges the essential Ameri-ness of his tastes. I think it informs the response I got to that post. Which I will now address as though this introductory little spiel was never written.

So your argument is: they should make the shows like they make the movies? Yeah, no. Got to keep things varied.

If varied means dull and depressing, then I say copy the movie formula. Even Agents Of Shield has a little fun sometimes.

AoS isn't, though, for all intents and purposes a 13 hour long movie. Besides, even within the Netflix shows which totally are made that way we have:

• Iron Fist... sure the first series is complete crap and cannot be credited with deliberately doing anything, but the second one is hardly built to the depressing formula. You could make IF S2' very bleak, but they didn't take it that far. I can even remember at least one joke. And the incoherence of S1 means it's certainly not dull and depressing, except in a meta sense.
• Luke Cage... I would say neither series is adequately characterised by this. I would go as far to say that they can be quite fun, actually. Not comedies, but fun.

It might seem odd to suggest the binge watch designed programme is more naturally inclined to keeping a constant tone, but I think Netflix has probably realised that people who binge watch stuff, will binge watch that stuff whatever's in it... and that the people who don't binge it, are closely related to the people who would never watch it regardless. In contrast, when you're playing out over 20+ weeks, you've got to be more clever in your interactions with the audience.

Maybe you just don't like thrillers. Here's a dirty secret Ameri, a lot of people... do.

I'm sure there's been a thriller or two I've liked...I can't think of any right now, but I'm sure there's a few.

Try (all television series; movies are for plebs*):

• State of Play
• Edge of Darkness
• Bodyguard
• Line of Duty
• GBH

If you like none of these... thrillers just aren't you.

For something that shows you can be heavy and dark and fun try Cracker. If you do watch any of these, you will notice that one of the main characters in Line of Duty appears in the first story (and thus first several episodes) of Cracker. Many other very well known actors appear across all of these, of course.

As an aside, the whole Golden Age of Television thing is complete BS, as I believe these suggestions demonstrate ably.

*Also I haven't seen the American movie remakes. Also, with Cracker, make sure Robbie Coltrane is in it.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you're in your teens or twenties, i.e. you're too young to have heard of Luke Cage and not Jessica Jones.

Well, in the comics anyway. Which, you know, is where Marvel's character barrel is.

I'm not a comic reader. Never have been. I learned all my superhero knowledge through cartoon, movies and the occasional Wiki-walk.

I've read like 3 comic books total in my day, and none of them had her in it.

Marvel... has a habit of insulting its readers (including strawmanning their arguments) so they're likely not that sympathetic to the following viewpoint but it's worth considering all the same: the target audience of adaptations of comics or books or related properties consists of the original content's fans + [desired new demo/psychographic profiles], so if you're not one and not in the other... maybe it's not for you? Life's too short for 6/10. (And too long to just assume you won't like something.)

But even if you are [desired new demo/psychographic profiles] it's important to remember that comic book properties get their first ideas from comics. Jessica Jones, for instance, could relatively easily have been made in a real world setting... that's one of the reasons critics really like it, to them Killgrave is just a symbolic representation of a real world issue... but it wasn't. What I imagine happened was that Netflix wanted to make a show for [desired new demo/psychographic profiles] and try and attract new subscribers at the same time... literally the only reason we have Netflix is Marvel (also it's a defensibly small expenditure even for as crappy a product as Netflix NZ)... and so turned to Marvel. And Marvel's character barrel had someone who fit the bill very clearly. I think it worked very well. But, hey, I watch things which aren't that dissimilar to start with (even in very vague terms, e.g. we're behind on SVU at the time of writing)... and have for (it seems) most of my life.

Now to take it back to the MCU... using this approach is probably why Netflix has kind of cooked the goose who laid the golden eggs. [Desired new demo/psychographic profiles] was really bad for Iron Fist, the second half of DD S2 and the Defenders. The overly niche referent of Blaxploitation (insofar as it goes over peoples' heads) didn't help Luke Cage S1. And it appears to have killed interest in Netflix Marvel to a substantial level. Ironically, they might only have the "comics audience" left (and, where relevant, older family members who have effectively lost control over what they watch due to incompetence with very basic technologies); and JJ S2 was very strongly not for the comics audience... where was the supersoldier programme? it's always a supersoldier programme in the comics. Always. Ma and Pa supersoldier programmes do not count.

[Ameriganastan]

...Did he just use me a verb? I've never been used as a verb before.

[Olthar]

...Did he just use me a verb? I've never been used as a verb before.

Everything should be verbed.

[Cannot think of a name]

...Did he just use me a verb? I've never been used as a verb before.

Everything should be verbed.

It's what's happening.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

She does have superhuman strength and flight, though they dont use the latter in the show that much.

Budget issue, I assume. I mean, yes, Netflix shows have more budget than TV shows.

Then again, Jessica Jones is geared towards investigative/detective show and less of a superhero show.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Yeah, how about your drop the snippy attitude? If you wanna get pissy at someone, then get pissy at Knockout Gun Gals. He's the one who brought it back up.

Wow, what a nice attitude there Ameri.

How can I be blamed when all I want is clarifying things?

[HC Eredivisie]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/12 ... dead-at-95

[Ameriganastan]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/12 ... dead-at-95

Well that sucks.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/12 ... dead-at-95

RIP

[Socialist Republic of Aplesia]

I don't understand how you're getting here, to be honest.

I’m not going to retype the original post, but to put it simply I’m not claiming that Thanos would have lost if only Strange hadn’t given up the time stone. I know it would take more than that. I’m not looking for posts telling me how unstoppable Thanos is.

I’m just trying to see what the writers were getting at with Strange. He claims there’s a possible outcome where the Avengers prevail. He seems to work to create an outcome where Thanos gets what he wants. His actions don’t seem to connect to that potential outcome. So... what’s he doing? One might say he’s averting a worse future, but I don’t see how the future could be worse. Thanos winning means only half of all people will die. He’d never kill more than that. That would go against his plan.

The thing is, everything Strange said and did after he saw every possible future was to set up the timeline where the Avengers won. Maybe he saw that if he made a minute change to his actions, it would change the future drastically. Strange could have just told Stark how to win, you say. But maybe, there wasn't only one way, but he had to say that to Stark because he needed to motivate him. Maybe if Stark was told how to win, he would be too confident and have no motivation because he knew that Peter wouldn't be dead permanently. Strange surely could have collected all of the stones and deposited them in far corners of the universe, but maybe by doing that, Thanos would have ultimately won in some way. We won't know exactly how Strange's actions affected the future until Avengers 4 comes out. Giving up the time stone won't make sense until we see the exact future Strange saw. Well yeah, that's my interpretation of why Strange said this is the only way etc. and still gave up the time stone.

[Socialist Republic of Aplesia]

(Image)

lmao

[The first Galactic Republic]

So Daredevil is apparently being canceled.

End of an era.

[Ameriganastan]

So Daredevil is apparently being canceled.

End of an era.

Ha ha ha! 3 down, 2 to go.