MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Gig em Aggies]

It doesn't come out until November 6th.

Self quote for update: It's now been delayed until next year.

It's true dammit, how about they just release it on Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, and other platforms as well as DVD or Digital instead of just pushing it back and back and back soon people are going to give up on Disney and other studios if they keep doing this.

[Lord Dominator]

It doesn't come out until November 6th.

Self quote for update: It's now been delayed until next year.

Apparently it doesn't matter whether Shang-chi or the Eternals come first then, since that article indicates they were effectively switched in release order.

Self quote for update: It's now been delayed until next year.

It's true dammit, how about they just release it on Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, and other platforms as well as DVD or Digital instead of just pushing it back and back and back soon people are going to give up on Disney and other studios if they keep doing this.

Nothing Disney is ever going on Netflix again, firstly. But otherwise, you're suggesting that people will give up on watching new movies because the movie studios don't want to post a loss on every movie (which would prevent them from making more movies), which is fundamentally illogical (plus I can't imagine that non-theater sales would be able to match the take in the short run at all).

[Gig em Aggies]

Self quote for update: It's now been delayed until next year.

Apparently it doesn't matter whether Shang-chi or the Eternals come first then, since that article indicates they were effectively switched in release order.

It's true dammit, how about they just release it on Netflix, Disney+, YouTube, and other platforms as well as DVD or Digital instead of just pushing it back and back and back soon people are going to give up on Disney and other studios if they keep doing this.

Nothing Disney is ever going on Netflix again, firstly. But otherwise, you're suggesting that people will give up on watching new movies because the movie studios don't want to post a loss on every movie (which would prevent them from making more movies), which is fundamentally illogical (plus I can't imagine that non-theater sales would be able to match the take in the short run at all).

no I'm saying is that if studios keep pushing big movies back people wont come I mean theaters studios, and others suffer the more a movie they worked on is pushed farther and farther back I mean Tenet and Mulan were released in Theaters across the world so why cant Black Widow be the same?

[Forsher]

Self quote for update: It's now been delayed until next year.

Apparently it doesn't matter whether Shang-chi or the Eternals come first then, since that article indicates they were effectively switched in release order.

The fandom greatly exaggerates the importance of release order. I suspect the main reason why Black Widow has retained its relative placement is that its trailer suggests it might be establishing a tonal shift for the films. Or, at least, demarcating a divide between the "old" and "new" MCU. But even then... the Disney+ shows will come out before it now.

The point I'm making is this... if it is necessary to view Black Widow out of chronological order, that would be a new and radical move for the MCU. To this point, it's only post-credits scenes that can be chopped and changed between films, that even remotely necessitate ignoring chronology. And given there are some post credits scenes with entirely unclear chronologies, it should be obvious how weak an appeal that is. That is, there is absolutely nothing remarkable in Shang Chi and Eternals being interchangeable because this relationship is what characterises the MCU.

[Lord Dominator]

Apparently it doesn't matter whether Shang-chi or the Eternals come first then, since that article indicates they were effectively switched in release order.

Nothing Disney is ever going on Netflix again, firstly. But otherwise, you're suggesting that people will give up on watching new movies because the movie studios don't want to post a loss on every movie (which would prevent them from making more movies), which is fundamentally illogical (plus I can't imagine that non-theater sales would be able to match the take in the short run at all).

no I'm saying is that if studios keep pushing big movies back people wont come I mean theaters studios, and others suffer the more a movie they worked on is pushed farther and farther back I mean Tenet and Mulan were released in Theaters across the world so why cant Black Widow be the same?

Major theater markets in the US are still closed partly or fully, and neither of those movies is doing great by blockbuster standards (Tenet has 251 million worldwide, Mulan 57 million).

[Forsher]

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[quote="Forsher";p="37687108"]



Did you accidentally delete your post?

[Alvecia]

Apparently it doesn't matter whether Shang-chi or the Eternals come first then, since that article indicates they were effectively switched in release order.

Nothing Disney is ever going on Netflix again, firstly. But otherwise, you're suggesting that people will give up on watching new movies because the movie studios don't want to post a loss on every movie (which would prevent them from making more movies), which is fundamentally illogical (plus I can't imagine that non-theater sales would be able to match the take in the short run at all).

no I'm saying is that if studios keep pushing big movies back people wont come I mean theaters studios, and others suffer the more a movie they worked on is pushed farther and farther back I mean Tenet and Mulan were released in Theaters across the world so why cant Black Widow be the same?

IIRC there's a lot of weird rules about films and awards and the like where one of the mandatory requirements be that it has to have been shown in theatres. I'm pretty sure things like the Oscars do that for a lot of the big awards.

Not saying they reckon it's got Oscar potential, just that there might be other odd film things that have that requirement as well.

[Lord Dominator]

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[quote="Forsher";p="37687108"]



Did you accidentally delete your post?

I did delete it on purpose (decided that my actual post wouldn't have contributed much to the conversation), apparently missed that chunk of the code.

[Cannot think of a name]

no I'm saying is that if studios keep pushing big movies back people wont come I mean theaters studios, and others suffer the more a movie they worked on is pushed farther and farther back I mean Tenet and Mulan were released in Theaters across the world so why cant Black Widow be the same?

IIRC there's a lot of weird rules about films and awards and the like where one of the mandatory requirements be that it has to have been shown in theatres. I'm pretty sure things like the Oscars do that for a lot of the big awards.

Not saying they reckon it's got Oscar potential, just that there might be other odd film things that have that requirement as well.

In light of pandemic realities, the qualifications for Oscar consideration has been significantly altered for this year.

Also, to put this on Disney and not, you know, the still current raging pandemic is a little silly. As someone pointed out already, Tenet was the canary in the coal mine and that canary died. Blockbusters are reliant on opening on 3-4 thousand screens (probably more, it's been a while since I've had to track movie openings) and those screens able to seat 250-500 people. None of those conditions exist.

It's not like we're going to reach this point and then go, "Ah, forget it. I don't wanna see Black Widow now..."

For me, since theaters aren't open in my area, I'm all for them waiting until I can actually see it. Unlike New Mutants which came out but I can't see it. Even thought it got horrible reviews, I still would have gone.

[Cannot think of a name]

Jamie Foxx is coming back to Spider-man.

The Hollywood Reporter broke the news today that Foxx was in final discussions to appear as the Spider-Man villain in the third Spidey movie starring Tom Holland. Foxx last played Electro in 2014’s The Amazing Spider-Man 2, which marked Andrew Garfield’s second and final appearance as the wall crawler.

This seems to me like they're setting up Spider-man to slip into the multiverse in the live action movies, a continuity way to have Tom Holland's Spider-man without Disney.

[The first Galactic Republic]

> Bringing Electro from the worst Spider-Man back
> Disgruntled Stark employee

Beyond parody. What’s next? They bring back Alfred Molina and Topher Grace and reveal they were also screwed by Stark?

[HC Eredivisie]

How did you come up with that?

[Gig em Aggies]

> Bringing Electro from the worst Spider-Man back
> Disgruntled Stark employee

Beyond parody. What’s next? They bring back Alfred Molina and Topher Grace and reveal they were also screwed by Stark?

what about having electro being a former employee of Hammer Industries who then loses his job because Justin Hammer broke Whiplash out of prison thus ending hammer industries.

Or

Electro became fascinated with Iron Man but turned against him and started to "worship" people like Whiplash, Aldrich Killian, Vulture, etc and then he has a mishap and becomes Electro after a failed test on a suit or weapon made from the flying drones in Far from Home?

Or

He vows to punish Spiderman after placing blame on him for the death of his wife and injuring him during the attacks in London in FFH and ends up working with Mysterio to aid his plans

[The first Galactic Republic]

> Bringing Electro from the worst Spider-Man back
> Disgruntled Stark employee

Beyond parody. What’s next? They bring back Alfred Molina and Topher Grace and reveal they were also screwed by Stark?

what about having electro being a former employee of Hammer Industries who then loses his job because Justin Hammer broke Whiplash out of prison thus ending hammer industries.

Or

Electro became fascinated with Iron Man but turned against him and started to "worship" people like Whiplash, Aldrich Killian, Vulture, etc and then he has a mishap and becomes Electro after a failed test on a suit or weapon made from the flying drones in Far from Home?

Or

He vows to punish Spiderman after placing blame on him for the death of his wife and injuring him during the attacks in London in FFH and ends up working with Mysterio to aid his plans

Screw it. Stilt-Man origin movie.

[Forsher]

Doctor Strange will be in Spidey 3 too.

I mean, there was already fan speculation about an MCU version of One More Day after FFH came out but it's stepped up a notch now. Obviously it's a deeply unpopular storyline, but given the way FFH basically sidestepped Homecoming's plot entirely, it works both as a course correction and another side step.

For my part... if you define One More Day as basically just being "people go from knowing who Spider-man's secret identity is to not because magic", then I think it's an entirely plausible plot direction. It's stuff that the MCU hasn't got which made people angry with OMD. This Peter wouldn't be OOC to take this kind of action and finding a suitable motivation for the magic user is easier. The MJ relationship is also way less developed so no worries there.

I could see something like the film's opening with a court case against Peter which basically snowballs into an increasingly dire situation, in part because Peter refuses to stand by and not be Spider-man. Electro would probably gain powers because of Peter's actions and it'd be easiest if he doesn't like having them. If he was also torn between wanting revenge and wanting to be cured, I think there's the crux of a pretty sympathetic villain right there. Eventually the nadir of the film is reached when Peter's supporting cast are attacked by Electro to draw Peter out into the open... at which point both of them are captured. (It would be important for Electro's attack to be Peter focussed to maintain sympathy.)

During this nadir I see three options:

• Doctor Strange reveals that he's worried Peter might be tempted by Mephisto, an enemy he (Strange) has sworn to fight... but Stephen's so arrogant and patronising he makes it easier for Mephisto to sway Peter when he shows up later
• Mephisto shows up, Peter makes a deal, Peter realises the deal is terrible and tries to get help from Doctor Strange who, due to the deal, has no idea who he is... and because of Peter's actions earlier in the film Electro is still after Peter Parker (independently of knowing Peter is Spidey) so possibly Doctor Strange attacks Peter as well
• Doctor Strange shows up and offers a magical way out... claiming that there is a high cost to the solution

And with the right set up... you can transition the third act into a Sinister Six plotline mostly using characters we've already met that Electro either linked up with while temporarily in prison or was working with earlier. Namely:

• Vulture (he doesn't know who Spidey is any more so why wouldn't he want revenge)
• Mac Gargan... now the Scorpion (presumably thanks to the Tinkerer)
• Shocker... I see people complain about him so he can have a new exoskeleton or something
• The Chameleon... turns out Talos!Fury is even more incompetent than we thought and hired a bad guy

The sixth member is a bit harder to pitch. Maybe we go with Mysterio... either Beck's revealed to be alive or someone else from his crew. Maybe we go with Kraven... who's related to the Chameleon. Maybe we bring in a boss type character from the comics (eg Kingpin, the Hood, Norman, Mr Negative) who's hired both crews (as in the one from Homecoming and the one from FFH), and now joins the fray personally. Maybe Electro isn't the only character to get powered up during the film and the big boss puts them in as well. Maybe we do two of these and drop Shocker or Vulture...

The side step variant would probably have everyone forget who both Peter and Spider-man are and play this for laughs. The forgetting would be done in the first ten to twenty minutes, rather than late in Act Two/as the Act Two to Act Three transition.

Either way... the perfect title already exists... Spider-man: You Can't Go Home Again

[Cannot think of a name]

Vincent D’anfrio or however that’s spelled wants to play Kingpin in the third Spider-man movie.

I want him to do that too.

[Ameriganastan]

Vincent D’anfrio or however that’s spelled wants to play Kingpin in the third Spider-man movie.

I want him to do that too.

Cause that's what these movies need. Him doing that weird man-baby version of Kingpin...

[Forsher]

Vincent D’anfrio or however that’s spelled wants to play Kingpin in the third Spider-man movie.

I want him to do that too.

Honestly it sucks that he basically has to Tweet about it. D'Onofrio (I looked it up) is a Big Name and he was fantastic in DD.

As I said, there seems to be a fairly obvious Electro centred, One More Day into Sinister Six inspired plot for Spidey 3 that has this gaping hole for a character that can just link the baddies from Homecoming and FFH together. Kingpin would do just as well at that as anyone else. Hell, if they really want Norman or someone other than Fisk it's easy to have both... just do a Cabal type storyline. Wouldn't be the first time MCU Kingpin has tried something like that. Even being (back) in jail isn't a problem because so are Vulture and Mac Gargan.

(The Hand stuff could also be retconned to be related to Mephisto or Doctor Strange in some way, but I don't think that's necessary even if, honestly, it'd improve MCU Hand a lot.)

Vincent D’anfrio or however that’s spelled wants to play Kingpin in the third Spider-man movie.

I want him to do that too.

Cause that's what these movies need. Him doing that weird man-baby version of Kingpin...

Interesting take?

[Ameriganastan]

Interesting take?

Well, that's how I see it. Kingpin is supposed to be this super intelligent, dapper master criminal. His version of Kingpin looks like Mr. Clean ate too many Twinkies, walks around with a look and walk that I can best call 'Slightly constipated', and he's always goddamn yelling.

Like everything else about Marvel on Netflix, it sucked.

[Forsher]

Interesting take?

Well, that's how I see it. Kingpin is supposed to be this super intelligent, dapper master criminal. His version of Kingpin looks like Mr. Clean ate too many Twinkies, walks around with a look and walk that I can best call 'Slightly constipated', and he's always goddamn yelling.

Like everything else about Marvel on Netflix, it sucked.

I wouldn't call Kingpin dapper but to the extent he wears suits and cultivates the nice things in life... MCU Netflix has that.

There's this one issue I read way back when which focusses on the young Fisk as a boy. He's chubby and unpopular and no-one lets him play baseball in the street with them. So, he explains, he didn't try and join in but he watched, waited and learnt how the game work. At this point I forget what happened in the comic, but I'm pretty sure the conclusion was "and then I made it my game" with the whole thing being a metaphor representing the way he took over the prison he was then incarcerated in. I think he then also unleashes on the guy personally because that's another part of the comics... he lets people forget that it's mostly muscle. Either way, the Netflix character is this kind of character... possibly a bit too angry... who just moves pieces around, taking control.

[HC Eredivisie]

a court case against Peter

And he's being represented by Matt Murdock, obviously.

• Doctor Strange reveals that he's worried Peter might be tempted by Mephisto, an enemy he (Strange) has sworn to fight... but Stephen's so arrogant and patronising he makes it easier for Mephisto to sway Peter when he shows up later
• Mephisto shows up, Peter makes a deal, Peter realises the deal is terrible and tries to get help from Doctor Strange who, due to the deal, has no idea who he is... and because of Peter's actions earlier in the film Electro is still after Peter Parker (independently of knowing Peter is Spidey) so possibly Doctor Strange attacks Peter as well
• Doctor Strange shows up and offers a magical way out... claiming that there is a high cost to the solution

I can't really see the first one working as they already know each other and Spider-Man knows it was Dr. Strange who had the plan to defeat Thanos so he'd probably listen anyway.
The second option would introduce demons and hell into the MCU, I guess that's something that'll happen eventually (new Ghost Rider set up perhaps). For the third the cost could be that Spider-Man moves to a new reality where he's unknown, thereby getting him into the Sony-verse.

Is Electro going to be Electro from the previous movie or a new version with the same actor?

[Cannot think of a name]

a court case against Peter

And he's being represented by Matt Murdock, obviously.

• Doctor Strange reveals that he's worried Peter might be tempted by Mephisto, an enemy he (Strange) has sworn to fight... but Stephen's so arrogant and patronising he makes it easier for Mephisto to sway Peter when he shows up later
• Mephisto shows up, Peter makes a deal, Peter realises the deal is terrible and tries to get help from Doctor Strange who, due to the deal, has no idea who he is... and because of Peter's actions earlier in the film Electro is still after Peter Parker (independently of knowing Peter is Spidey) so possibly Doctor Strange attacks Peter as well
• Doctor Strange shows up and offers a magical way out... claiming that there is a high cost to the solution

I can't really see the first one working as they already know each other and Spider-Man knows it was Dr. Strange who had the plan to defeat Thanos so he'd probably listen anyway.
The second option would introduce demons and hell into the MCU, I guess that's something that'll happen eventually (new Ghost Rider set up perhaps). For the third the cost could be that Spider-Man moves to a new reality where he's unknown, thereby getting him into the Sony-verse.

Is Electro going to be Electro from the previous movie or a new version with the same actor?

Before he was told he said too much and had to delete his Instagram photo, he stressed that he will not be blue.

You know that that means...green tights. And the lightning headpiece, baby!!!

That will not happen. But it seems same but different in the same way as J Jonah Jameson. I think they maybe wanted someone to tie over from Amazing Spider-man since they had someone to tie in from Raimi Spider-man.

The photo where he said he wouldn’t be blue featured three Spider-men staring at a sky with blue lightning. One even looked like it had Andrew Garfield hair.

[Treciene]

i edited the post.
also are you excited?

Not especially, no.

ok

[Cannot think of a name]

Not especially, no.

ok

Welcome to Ameri’s unique brand of ‘fandom.’

[Ameriganastan]

ok

Welcome to Ameri’s unique brand of ‘fandom.’

Well sorry I'm not jumping up and down for one of the B-team Avengers getting her own movie.