MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Cisairse]

Hmm that's a tough one...out of the original six. I like characters that are very intelligent. Iron Man and Dr. Bruce Banner are both very intelligent but the issue I have with both is that they're not original, Iron Man started off as a sort-of copy of Batman and Hulk is a copy of both Solomon Grundy and Frankenstein. Captain America copied a character called 'The Shield', Thor is cool and intelligent but sometimes he doesn't look cool (yeah my reasoning is funny there), Hawkeye is a sort-of copy of DC's Green Arrow (and Robin Hood, somewhat...I was born in Nottingham and Sherwood Forest is in Nottinghamshire), Black Widow is cool and quite intelligent but she's not as nice as the other avengers on your list, she killed Jarvis and killed innocent people too.

I'll go with the God, Thor

Iron Man wasn't a copy of Batman, Daredevil was a copy of Batman (originally). Iron Man was mainly inspired by the real life Howard Hughes.

[HC Eredivisie]

Black Widow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_77NlB7f8KA

Other things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6g4_2MCSSE

I'm a bit confused about the WandaVision show. They're in a TV -show that will eventually tie in to Dr. Strange 2?

She's reaching through timelines to find a Vision that she can bring back and her warping of reality is creating a sureal landscape as she starts to lose her mind and control of her powers. Doctor Strange has to reel her powers back in after she weakened the barriers and now Nightmare can try and take over the waking world. But he'll be unable to do it and she'll collapse timelines or the like in an House of M storyline that will bring mutants in and give Spider-man a way out.

That's my guess anyway.

Y'all notice those couple frames where she was in the comic book Scarlet Witch costume? :16 in if you're looking.

I noticed it. Your guess sounds reasonable, I think there'll also be a set up for the new Avengers movie.

[ArranVidLand]

Hmm that's a tough one...out of the original six. I like characters that are very intelligent. Iron Man and Dr. Bruce Banner are both very intelligent but the issue I have with both is that they're not original, Iron Man started off as a sort-of copy of Batman and Hulk is a copy of both Solomon Grundy and Frankenstein. Captain America copied a character called 'The Shield', Thor is cool and intelligent but sometimes he doesn't look cool (yeah my reasoning is funny there), Hawkeye is a sort-of copy of DC's Green Arrow (and Robin Hood, somewhat...I was born in Nottingham and Sherwood Forest is in Nottinghamshire), Black Widow is cool and quite intelligent but she's not as nice as the other avengers on your list, she killed Jarvis and killed innocent people too.

I'll go with the God, Thor

Iron Man wasn't a copy of Batman, Daredevil was a copy of Batman (originally). Iron Man was mainly inspired by the real life Howard Hughes.

Yes I know that Iron Man was based on the playboy Howard Hughes, but I thought Batman was also an inspiration for the creation of Iron Man? They share far too many similarities for it to be a co-incidence.

[Cannot think of a name]

Iron Man wasn't a copy of Batman, Daredevil was a copy of Batman (originally). Iron Man was mainly inspired by the real life Howard Hughes.

Yes I know that Iron Man was based on the playboy Howard Hughes, but I thought Batman was also an inspiration for the creation of Iron Man? They share far too many similarities for it to be a co-incidence.

That they're rich? There are sooooo many super heroes who get by on being rich. The Green Hornet is a newspaper magnet. Moon Knight (who is the 'real' Marvel Batman if we're doing that) is also rich. The Green Arrow is the head of a major company. Iron Fist, same. Professor X owns a palatial estate in upstate New York. Wasp was born into money. Angel comes from a rich family. The Blue Beetle (the second one) also inherited a massive research company. The Shadow is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealth man about town (and also clearly an influence on Batman).

"Rich industrialist" is not a coincidence. It's a trope.

What else? Parents dead? What superhero didn't lose their parents? Hell, Peter Parker lost his parents AND a surrogate parent. So did Johnny Blaze.

Not only that, but Tony's parents aren't even the motivation for him becoming a superhero. It's getting the shrapnel in his chest meaning that he has to install the arc reactor because of comic book logic and then trying to right all the wrong of his war profiteering ways, meaning that Iron Man operates largely on a global scale while Batman just fucks with Gotham. Most of Iron Man's rogues gallery is cold war relics like Titanium Man etc, Russians and Russian stand ins in the techno race that echoed the space race of the time. Meanwhile, billionaire Bruce Wayne is skulking around one shitty neighborhood punching mentally ill people.

Batman's super power (aside from being rich) is his role as 'worlds greatest detective' (despite the fact that you don't have to do a lot of detecting when the villains go on tv and explain what they're about to do but whatever) and his gadgets are tools he uses. Iron Man's power is a literal power suit that gives him the ability to fly and shoot an ill defined energy blast out of his hands.

The only real similarities the two share happen to be the most common tropes in all of superheroes. If that's too much of a coincidence for them to to be 'the same' then all superheroes are 'Batman'. (there is a small argument for that, but that's a different discussion...)

[New haven america]

Yes I know that Iron Man was based on the playboy Howard Hughes, but I thought Batman was also an inspiration for the creation of Iron Man? They share far too many similarities for it to be a co-incidence.

That they're rich? There are sooooo many super heroes who get by on being rich. The Green Hornet is a newspaper magnet. Moon Knight (who is the 'real' Marvel Batman if we're doing that) is also rich. The Green Arrow is the head of a major company. Iron Fist, same. Professor X owns a palatial estate in upstate New York. Wasp was born into money. Angel comes from a rich family. The Blue Beetle (the second one) also inherited a massive research company. The Shadow is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealth man about town (and also clearly an influence on Batman).

"Rich industrialist" is not a coincidence. It's a trope.

What else? Parents dead? What superhero didn't lose their parents? Hell, Peter Parker lost his parents AND a surrogate parent. So did Johnny Blaze.

Not only that, but Tony's parents aren't even the motivation for him becoming a superhero. It's getting the shrapnel in his chest meaning that he has to install the arc reactor because of comic book logic and then trying to right all the wrong of his war profiteering ways, meaning that Iron Man operates largely on a global scale while Batman just fucks with Gotham. Most of Iron Man's rogues gallery is cold war relics like Titanium Man etc, Russians and Russian stand ins in the techno race that echoed the space race of the time. Meanwhile, billionaire Bruce Banner is skulking around one shitty neighborhood punching mentally ill people.

Batman's super power (aside from being rich) is his role as 'worlds greatest detective' (despite the fact that you don't have to do a lot of detecting when the villains go on tv and explain what they're about to do but whatever) and his gadgets are tools he uses. Iron Man's power is a literal power suit that gives him the ability to fly and shoot an ill defined energy blast out of his hands.

The only real similarities the two share happen to be the most common tropes in all of superheroes. If that's too much of a coincidence for them to to be 'the same' then all superheroes are 'Batman'. (there is a small argument for that, but that's a different discussion...)

It's actually quite normal in comics for companies to steal ideas from each other.

The rich industrialist playboy who's also a superhero/detective is a trope because of the existence of Batman. Same thing goes for Superman, who had so many rip offs that DC started suing and buying up as many Superman clones as possible (Like Captain Marvel/Shazam for example), or The Submariner who was the direct inspiration for Aquaman. Hell, Blue Beetle 1 and 2 were made as Batman clones before DC bought out Fox and Charlton Comics, and now Blue Beetle 3 is a Spider-Man clone. So it still happens.

Then there are cases like Darkseid, Thanos, and Mongul, where Jack Kirby left Marvel and made DC's New Gods, which inspired Marvel to continue a tradition as old as Stan Lee and outright steal Jack Kirby's ideas with Thanos, which then lead to DC stealing the Thanos idea and making Mongul.

The comic industry is full of artistic inbreeding and outright theft in a lot of cases.

[Lord Dominator]

Related fun fact, but supposedly Stan Lee created Iron Man originally with the idea of making a character as antithetical to the average Marvel comics reader (ie hippies and similar) as possible

[Cisairse]

Yes I know that Iron Man was based on the playboy Howard Hughes, but I thought Batman was also an inspiration for the creation of Iron Man? They share far too many similarities for it to be a co-incidence.

That they're rich? There are sooooo many super heroes who get by on being rich. The Green Hornet is a newspaper magnet. Moon Knight (who is the 'real' Marvel Batman if we're doing that) is also rich. The Green Arrow is the head of a major company. Iron Fist, same. Professor X owns a palatial estate in upstate New York. Wasp was born into money. Angel comes from a rich family. The Blue Beetle (the second one) also inherited a massive research company. The Shadow is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealth man about town (and also clearly an influence on Batman).

"Rich industrialist" is not a coincidence. It's a trope.

What else? Parents dead? What superhero didn't lose their parents? Hell, Peter Parker lost his parents AND a surrogate parent. So did Johnny Blaze.

Not only that, but Tony's parents aren't even the motivation for him becoming a superhero. It's getting the shrapnel in his chest meaning that he has to install the arc reactor because of comic book logic and then trying to right all the wrong of his war profiteering ways, meaning that Iron Man operates largely on a global scale while Batman just fucks with Gotham. Most of Iron Man's rogues gallery is cold war relics like Titanium Man etc, Russians and Russian stand ins in the techno race that echoed the space race of the time. Meanwhile, billionaire Bruce Banner is skulking around one shitty neighborhood punching mentally ill people.

Batman's super power (aside from being rich) is his role as 'worlds greatest detective' (despite the fact that you don't have to do a lot of detecting when the villains go on tv and explain what they're about to do but whatever) and his gadgets are tools he uses. Iron Man's power is a literal power suit that gives him the ability to fly and shoot an ill defined energy blast out of his hands.

The only real similarities the two share happen to be the most common tropes in all of superheroes. If that's too much of a coincidence for them to to be 'the same' then all superheroes are 'Batman'. (there is a small argument for that, but that's a different discussion...)

Do you mean Bruce Wayne?

[Cannot think of a name]

That they're rich? There are sooooo many super heroes who get by on being rich. The Green Hornet is a newspaper magnet. Moon Knight (who is the 'real' Marvel Batman if we're doing that) is also rich. The Green Arrow is the head of a major company. Iron Fist, same. Professor X owns a palatial estate in upstate New York. Wasp was born into money. Angel comes from a rich family. The Blue Beetle (the second one) also inherited a massive research company. The Shadow is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealth man about town (and also clearly an influence on Batman).

"Rich industrialist" is not a coincidence. It's a trope.

What else? Parents dead? What superhero didn't lose their parents? Hell, Peter Parker lost his parents AND a surrogate parent. So did Johnny Blaze.

Not only that, but Tony's parents aren't even the motivation for him becoming a superhero. It's getting the shrapnel in his chest meaning that he has to install the arc reactor because of comic book logic and then trying to right all the wrong of his war profiteering ways, meaning that Iron Man operates largely on a global scale while Batman just fucks with Gotham. Most of Iron Man's rogues gallery is cold war relics like Titanium Man etc, Russians and Russian stand ins in the techno race that echoed the space race of the time. Meanwhile, billionaire Bruce Banner is skulking around one shitty neighborhood punching mentally ill people.

Batman's super power (aside from being rich) is his role as 'worlds greatest detective' (despite the fact that you don't have to do a lot of detecting when the villains go on tv and explain what they're about to do but whatever) and his gadgets are tools he uses. Iron Man's power is a literal power suit that gives him the ability to fly and shoot an ill defined energy blast out of his hands.

The only real similarities the two share happen to be the most common tropes in all of superheroes. If that's too much of a coincidence for them to to be 'the same' then all superheroes are 'Batman'. (there is a small argument for that, but that's a different discussion...)

It's actually quite normal in comics for companies to steal ideas from each other.

The rich industrialist playboy who's also a superhero/detective is a trope because of the existence of Batman. Same thing goes for Superman, who had so many rip offs that DC started suing and buying up as many Superman clones as possible (Like Captain Marvel/Shazam for example), or The Submariner who was the direct inspiration for Aquaman. Hell, Blue Beetle 1 and 2 were made as Batman clones before DC bought out Fox and Charlton Comics, and now Blue Beetle 3 is a Spider-Man clone. So it still happens.

Then there are cases like Darkseid, Thanos, and Mongul, where Jack Kirby left Marvel and made DC's New Gods, which inspired Marvel to continue a tradition as old as Stan Lee and outright steal Jack Kirby's ideas with Thanos, which then lead to DC stealing the Thanos idea and making Mongul.

The comic industry is full of artistic inbreeding and outright theft in a lot of cases.

Well, thanks for clearing up that undisputed thing.

[Cannot think of a name]

That they're rich? There are sooooo many super heroes who get by on being rich. The Green Hornet is a newspaper magnet. Moon Knight (who is the 'real' Marvel Batman if we're doing that) is also rich. The Green Arrow is the head of a major company. Iron Fist, same. Professor X owns a palatial estate in upstate New York. Wasp was born into money. Angel comes from a rich family. The Blue Beetle (the second one) also inherited a massive research company. The Shadow is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealth man about town (and also clearly an influence on Batman).

"Rich industrialist" is not a coincidence. It's a trope.

What else? Parents dead? What superhero didn't lose their parents? Hell, Peter Parker lost his parents AND a surrogate parent. So did Johnny Blaze.

Not only that, but Tony's parents aren't even the motivation for him becoming a superhero. It's getting the shrapnel in his chest meaning that he has to install the arc reactor because of comic book logic and then trying to right all the wrong of his war profiteering ways, meaning that Iron Man operates largely on a global scale while Batman just fucks with Gotham. Most of Iron Man's rogues gallery is cold war relics like Titanium Man etc, Russians and Russian stand ins in the techno race that echoed the space race of the time. Meanwhile, billionaire Bruce Banner is skulking around one shitty neighborhood punching mentally ill people.

Batman's super power (aside from being rich) is his role as 'worlds greatest detective' (despite the fact that you don't have to do a lot of detecting when the villains go on tv and explain what they're about to do but whatever) and his gadgets are tools he uses. Iron Man's power is a literal power suit that gives him the ability to fly and shoot an ill defined energy blast out of his hands.

The only real similarities the two share happen to be the most common tropes in all of superheroes. If that's too much of a coincidence for them to to be 'the same' then all superheroes are 'Batman'. (there is a small argument for that, but that's a different discussion...)

Do you mean Bruce Wayne?

Took me forever to find that slip up. I had no idea what you were talking about.

[Cannot think of a name]

Related fun fact, but supposedly Stan Lee created Iron Man originally with the idea of making a character as antithetical to the average Marvel comics reader (ie hippies and similar) as possible

That's kind of the story I heard, but there are a lot of variations of it that it seems like most of the characters that Lee created were on a dare. Iron Man was to turn the least heroic person a hero, in this case an arms manufacturer. Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD I heard was a dare to make a comic with the dumbest name and still work or something like that. I've heard variations of that story for different characters.

I like that idea, though. Like him and Jack Kirby sitting in a room going, "I bet you can't make a hero out of this..."

[New haven america]

It's actually quite normal in comics for companies to steal ideas from each other.

The rich industrialist playboy who's also a superhero/detective is a trope because of the existence of Batman. Same thing goes for Superman, who had so many rip offs that DC started suing and buying up as many Superman clones as possible (Like Captain Marvel/Shazam for example), or The Submariner who was the direct inspiration for Aquaman. Hell, Blue Beetle 1 and 2 were made as Batman clones before DC bought out Fox and Charlton Comics, and now Blue Beetle 3 is a Spider-Man clone. So it still happens.

Then there are cases like Darkseid, Thanos, and Mongul, where Jack Kirby left Marvel and made DC's New Gods, which inspired Marvel to continue a tradition as old as Stan Lee and outright steal Jack Kirby's ideas with Thanos, which then lead to DC stealing the Thanos idea and making Mongul.

The comic industry is full of artistic inbreeding and outright theft in a lot of cases.

Well, thanks for clearing up that undisputed thing.

But it was disputed, why else would you have written an entire page worth of argument against the idea that Ironman is a Batman clone?

Which he is. Ironman, Blue Beetle, etc... all Batman clones.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, thanks for clearing up that undisputed thing.

But it was disputed, why else would you have written an entire page worth of argument against the idea that Ironman is a Batman clone?

Which he is. Ironman, Blue Beetle, etc... all Batman clones.

If you zoom far enough out for it to be a meaningless statement, sure.

[New haven america]

But it was disputed, why else would you have written an entire page worth of argument against the idea that Ironman is a Batman clone?

Which he is. Ironman, Blue Beetle, etc... all Batman clones.

If you zoom far enough out for it to be a meaningless statement, sure.

Says the person who wrote a page worth of argument about how Ironman Is Not a Batman clone.

Has your hole been dug sufficiently deep enough?

[Cannot think of a name]

If you zoom far enough out for it to be a meaningless statement, sure.

Says the person who wrote a page worth of argument about how Ironman Is Not a Batman clone.

Has your hole been dug sufficiently deep enough?

You understand the qualitative difference from a medium cross influencing itself and sharing tropes and a character being a literal clone, right? That there's a difference between something like Thanos and Darkseid and 'two rich guys who became superheroes'?

I mean, instead of linking back to my post maybe read it a little more carefully? What are you even trying to prove? This is the weirdest conversation, man. Look at the statement I was responding to. By your so broad as to be meaningless standard, all superheroes are clones of each other and therefore the other's post about Iron Man and Batman would be self defeating.

But here you are...talking about my post as if it didn't acknowledge influence and shared tropes and dancing around all, "Gotcha!" Don't know why, though.

Talk about how long the post was again, maybe that's the key to this whole thing making any sense.

[New haven america]

Says the person who wrote a page worth of argument about how Ironman Is Not a Batman clone.

Has your hole been dug sufficiently deep enough?

You understand the qualitative difference from a medium cross influencing itself and sharing tropes and a character being a literal clone, right? That there's a difference between something like Thanos and Darkseid and 'two rich guys who became superheroes'?

I mean, instead of linking back to my post maybe read it a little more carefully? What are you even trying to prove? This is the weirdest conversation, man. Look at the statement I was responding to. By your so broad as to be meaningless standard, all superheroes are clones of each other and therefore the other's post about Iron Man and Batman would be self defeating.

But here you are...talking about my post as if it didn't acknowledge influence and shared tropes and dancing around all, "Gotcha!" Don't know why, though.

Talk about how long the post was again, maybe that's the key to this whole thing making any sense.

Clones can evolve and grow differences over time, just like how real life cloned animals tend to develop different personalities despite being made from the same genetic material.

That doesn't mean that the characters aren't/weren't clones to begin with though, just like how Ironman and pretty much every other rich industrialist superhero are clones of the OG rich industrialist superhero, Batman. If someone wants to say Ironman is basically Batman, that doesn't make them wrong or means that they don't have a genuine point that has been well recorded throughout comic history.

[Cannot think of a name]

You understand the qualitative difference from a medium cross influencing itself and sharing tropes and a character being a literal clone, right? That there's a difference between something like Thanos and Darkseid and 'two rich guys who became superheroes'?

I mean, instead of linking back to my post maybe read it a little more carefully? What are you even trying to prove? This is the weirdest conversation, man. Look at the statement I was responding to. By your so broad as to be meaningless standard, all superheroes are clones of each other and therefore the other's post about Iron Man and Batman would be self defeating.

But here you are...talking about my post as if it didn't acknowledge influence and shared tropes and dancing around all, "Gotcha!" Don't know why, though.

Talk about how long the post was again, maybe that's the key to this whole thing making any sense.

Clones can evolve and grow differences over time, just like how real life cloned animals tend to develop different personalities despite being made from the same genetic material.

That doesn't mean that the characters aren't/weren't clones to begin with though, just like how Ironman and pretty much every other rich industrialist superhero are clones of the OG rich industrialist superhero, Batman. If someone wants to say Ironman is basically Batman, that doesn't make them wrong or means that they don't have a genuine point that has been well recorded throughout comic history.

If you're going down this meaningless pedantic road, you might want to assign that 'og' status of rich hero OG back a little further, like Batman's direct influences The Shadow and Zorro or just fuck it all and make any comparison meaningless and go all the way back to the Scarlet Pimpernel.

I guess that's the game we're playing for some reason.

[New haven america]

Clones can evolve and grow differences over time, just like how real life cloned animals tend to develop different personalities despite being made from the same genetic material.

That doesn't mean that the characters aren't/weren't clones to begin with though, just like how Ironman and pretty much every other rich industrialist superhero are clones of the OG rich industrialist superhero, Batman. If someone wants to say Ironman is basically Batman, that doesn't make them wrong or means that they don't have a genuine point that has been well recorded throughout comic history.

If you're going down this meaningless pedantic road, you might want to assign that 'og' status of rich hero OG back a little further, like Batman's direct influences The Shadow and Zorro or just fuck it all and make any comparison meaningless and go all the way back to the Scarlet Pimpernel.

I guess that's the game we're playing for some reason.

I mean, I'm just trying to have a conversation, you're the one trying to make this a game.

Why are you trying to make this a game?

[Cannot think of a name]

If you're going down this meaningless pedantic road, you might want to assign that 'og' status of rich hero OG back a little further, like Batman's direct influences The Shadow and Zorro or just fuck it all and make any comparison meaningless and go all the way back to the Scarlet Pimpernel.

I guess that's the game we're playing for some reason.

I mean, I'm just trying to have a conversation, you're the one trying to make this a game.

Why are you trying to make this a game?

Do you need a hug or something?

[The first Galactic Republic]

Related fun fact, but supposedly Stan Lee created Iron Man originally with the idea of making a character as antithetical to the average Marvel comics reader (ie hippies and similar) as possible

I heard he wanted to see if he could get people to like a character that was otherwise written to be unlikeable. Of special note is that he was originally a Cold War champion for the US government at a time when the Vietnam War turned younger people against the military and establishment.

[Ameriganastan]

So there's a leak out there about Christian Bale in Thor 4. No name yet, but apparently he's gonna be the villain. An alien villain on top of that.

[Cannot think of a name]

So there's a leak out there about Christian Bale in Thor 4. No name yet, but apparently he's gonna be the villain. An alien villain on top of that.

Gorr? Zarrko? The High Evolutionary?


Which is to say, I don't know and probably someone I'll have to look up when it's finally announced.

[Tarsonis]

So there's a leak out there about Christian Bale in Thor 4. No name yet, but apparently he's gonna be the villain. An alien villain on top of that.

Oh right the MCU is still a thing.

[HC Eredivisie]

Yes... they're still making MCU movies so why wouldn't it be?

So there's a leak out there about Christian Bale in Thor 4. No name yet, but apparently he's gonna be the villain. An alien villain on top of that.

Gorr? Zarrko? The High Evolutionary?


Which is to say, I don't know and probably someone I'll have to look up when it's finally announced.

Adam Warlock or is Thor 4 not GotG3?

[Ameriganastan]

Yes... they're still making MCU movies so why wouldn't it be?

Gorr? Zarrko? The High Evolutionary?


Which is to say, I don't know and probably someone I'll have to look up when it's finally announced.

Adam Warlock or is Thor 4 not GotG3?

I mean Thor 4 is probably gonna be in space. So he should show up...I think.

[Cannot think of a name]

Yes... they're still making MCU movies so why wouldn't it be?

Gorr? Zarrko? The High Evolutionary?


Which is to say, I don't know and probably someone I'll have to look up when it's finally announced.

Adam Warlock or is Thor 4 not GotG3?

Taika Waititi is directing Thor: Love and Thunder which will have Jane Foster Thor and maybe Christian Bale as a villain of some sort? Anyway, that.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 will be directed by James Gunn after Gunn was fired, went to direct Suicide Squad, then got hired again. That will feature Adam Warlock.