MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Lord Dominator]

So Doctor Strange...

Scarlett Witch didn't die at end right?

No body, no death.

Hell, it's a superhero show. Even if there's a body, that's no guarantee of death.

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

[Cannot think of a name]

No body, no death.

Hell, it's a superhero show. Even if there's a body, that's no guarantee of death.

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

Is she Peter Parker's uncle?

If not, then death is barely an inconvenience.

[Forsher]

No body, no death.

Hell, it's a superhero show. Even if there's a body, that's no guarantee of death.

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

I would take it as "she's dead, unless they can think of something else to use her in".

[Lord Dominator]

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

I would take it as "she's dead, unless they can think of something else to use her in".

Sure, make the reasonable assumption

[Kiddian States]

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

Is she Peter Parker's uncle?

If not, then death is barely an inconvenience.

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

[Christian Confederation]

Is she Peter Parker's uncle?

If not, then death is barely an inconvenience.

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

I still can't figure out who has died more Loki or agent Coulson

[Forsher]

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

I still can't figure out who has died more Loki or agent Coulson

Coulson died twice...

was resurrected one time and then brought back as an LMD after having been (largely unintentionally) impersonated by an interdimensional entity, which also died.

Loki's only died once, unless you count the Lokis that died in E5 of Loki.

The actual winner for not staying dead in the MCU would be Bruce. He's died once on screen (Ragnarok), references having committed suicide once (The Avengers) and then is implied to have died in the initial incident by Tony (also The Avengers). Plus, Ragnarok would suggest that when he jumped out of the helicopter in The Incredible Hulk he died then, too. However, I haven't seen that for some time so...

Is she Peter Parker's uncle?

If not, then death is barely an inconvenience.

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

I know what you're referencing but strictly speaking, comics characters die very easily... it's just that they don't stay dead. There's this one issue of The Incredible Hercules where Hercules and Amadeus end up in an afterlife and it's just filled with (mostly?) villains gambling their way back to the land of the living. In the comics, resurrection is a spin of a roulette wheel away.

[Lord Dominator]

I have seen very few people actually taking the death as having happened - there’s not even “didn’t die” AUs for my fanfic, just a complete disbelief that she did at all.

I would observe that there’s reasonably foreshadowing if so - Strange dropped a roof and a river on the other Wanda that got possessed, and that did nothing.

I would take it as "she's dead, unless they can think of something else to use her in".

Young Avengers: The Children’s Crusade

[Cannot think of a name]

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

I still can't figure out who has died more Loki or agent Coulson

Trying to do it off the top of my head:
Loki dies by:
- Falling into space from the rainbow bridge
- 'sacrificing' himself against the Dark Elves.
- Choked out by Thanos
- Whatever the TVA called it when they zapped someone
(Technically you can add about a dozen though if you count variant Loki being sent to the void because then the variants in the clubhouse died.)

Coulson dies by:
- Being stabbed by Loki
- Sacrificing himself to Ghost Rider? There was something in the deal to take on the Spirit of Vengeance that meant he eventually died.
- Then his life model decoy died as well, right? Ugh, this is spotty, there was a lot of shit happening in that show.
- Alternate universe bad guy Coulson dies.

Well, my Coulson counter is spotty at best, but if it's right it's a push.

This one says 6.

[Nova Catania]

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

Oh, not dying is tight!

[Christian Confederation]

You could say that not dying is super easy, barely an inconvenience

Oh, not dying is tight!

We are a cultured group

[Forsher]

I would take it as "she's dead, unless they can think of something else to use her in".

Young Avengers: The Children’s Crusade

I was thinking about this because WandaVision set up the idea that Wanda would be trying to find her own kids rather than kidnapping another Wanda's. Something would need to be done with that plotline, first, but who would do it?

[Kiddian States]

Young Avengers: The Children’s Crusade

I was thinking about this because WandaVision set up the idea that Wanda would be trying to find her own kids rather than kidnapping another Wanda's. Something would need to be done with that plotline, first, but who would do it?

I mean, she technically looked for her kids…in a very ill-thought out and villainous way

[Forsher]

I was thinking about this because WandaVision set up the idea that Wanda would be trying to find her own kids rather than kidnapping another Wanda's. Something would need to be done with that plotline, first, but who would do it?

I mean, she technically looked for her kids…in a very ill-thought out and villainous way

That's the thing, though. It's like Ragnarok -> IW with Hulk and Loki. You've got the basic plot events which are the same, but the meaning is fundamentally incompatible.

I would assume, though, that Wanda was initially looking for her kids but couldn't succeed, so just went to the kidnapping plan. Or I'm misremembering WandaVision's ending, which is possible (unlike Ragnarok, I have only seen WandaVision once).

[Cannot think of a name]

I was thinking about this because WandaVision set up the idea that Wanda would be trying to find her own kids rather than kidnapping another Wanda's. Something would need to be done with that plotline, first, but who would do it?

I mean, she technically looked for her kids…in a very ill-thought out and villainous way

I dunno, kinda seems like a 'snyder cut' kind of complaint. We saw that she had the Darkhold and she went looking for her kids by the time we see her again she's going scorched earth to exit the reality where she has known nothing but pain and heartache and go to one where her kids were real. She looked for her kids via the Darkhold and this is what she found. Do we really need a handholding scene where she makes the decision that she can't recreate her kids but via the multiverse she can do the next best thing? I kind of hate this instinct that audiences are incapable of filling in the gaps or even worse that not documenting every single step is 'bad writing'. It's the Cinema Sins/Pitch Meeting effect where people have taken a perfectly fun exercise and mistaken it for actual criticism.

[Forsher]

I mean, she technically looked for her kids…in a very ill-thought out and villainous way

I dunno, kinda seems like a 'snyder cut' kind of complaint. We saw that she had the Darkhold and she went looking for her kids by the time we see her again she's going scorched earth to exit the reality where she has known nothing but pain and heartache and go to one where her kids were real. She looked for her kids via the Darkhold and this is what she found. Do we really need a handholding scene where she makes the decision that she can't recreate her kids but via the multiverse she can do the next best thing? I kind of hate this instinct that audiences are incapable of filling in the gaps or even worse that not documenting every single step is 'bad writing'. It's the Cinema Sins/Pitch Meeting effect where people have taken a perfectly fun exercise and mistaken it for actual criticism.

Honestly, if you're not going to read what I say you don't get TO TALK about what I'm saying.

Get fucked.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go report myself. Prick.

You also misread that, by the way, and I suspect the reasons for the misreading are that you don't know what Children's Crusade is.

I'm saying that WandaVision suggests Wanda's actual kids from WandaVision are still out there and that those kids would be the ones involved in Children's Crusade. Wanda's actions really have nothing to do with whether or not those children exist, and Children's Crusade would be really fucking bizarre if it was alt reality versions of Billy and Tommy looking for MCU Wanda.

The missing context:

The Young Avengers appear in the 2010–2012 miniseries, Avengers: The Children's Crusade, written by Allan Heinberg and illustrated by Jim Cheung.[17] In the series, Magneto learned that the Young Avengers were going to search for the still missing Scarlet Witch, and that Wiccan and Speed may be the reincarnations of Wanda's children. Magneto meets them, stating that he wants Wiccan and Speed to finally know him as their grandfather, and helps them find Wanda.[18][19]

Nor was there a complaint about bad writing.

[Indomitable Friendship]

I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times in this gargantuan thread, but please indulge me, anyway; are you more partial to Marvel or DC and why?

I personally prefer DC. I like the iconicity of the characters and their correspondingly titanic levels of power. With this comes a more fantastical and imaginative universe (IMO) that feels pervasively larger in scope at all times. I also like that DC characters are thought of as "unrelatable"; Superman is an alien and idealized as perfection; Batman is an obsessive recluse driven by personal darkness; Wonder Woman is the daughter of the gods and I snickered to myself when I read one of her old issues and she was depicted as praying to the gods while fully nude. It was so out of touch with modernity, but not at all anachronistic for some reason - DC heroes just transcend time by virtue of their stature, I guess. I would also make the case that DC does a far better job humanizing their villains. Obviously, this mostly applies to Batman's rogues, but even with the Suicide Squad, you have characterization that I don't think Marvel quite matches.

[Ameriganastan]

I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times in this gargantuan thread, but please indulge me, anyway; are you more partial to Marvel or DC and why?

DC makes better cartoons.
Marvel makes better movies.

[HC Eredivisie]

The actual winner for not staying dead in the MCU would be Bruce. He's died once on screen (Ragnarok), references having committed suicide once (The Avengers) and then is implied to have died in the initial incident by Tony (also The Avengers). Plus, Ragnarok would suggest that when he jumped out of the helicopter in The Incredible Hulk he died then, too. However, I haven't seen that for some time so...

He crashes into the ground as Banner and comes out as Hulk in 'The Incredible Hulk' so he died there just as in Ragnarok, the suicide is seen in the alternate beginning for the same movie but not if he actually died. To me Tony's comment implies Banner lived in the incident and immediatly transformed in the Hulk.

It makes no sense for the MCU to be 616. Maybe 838 uses a different numbering scheme than we do in this universe. (But why would they number their own universe 838, then?)

Selvig already mentions their universe as 616 in Thor.

That's a usefull trick

[Christian Confederation]

DC makes great animated movies. Marvel makes great Live action stuff. Both have great characters and spotty comic records.

[Lord Dominator]

Re: Children’s Crusade

Obviously she screwed up by looking for them as directly twins or being the age she knew or whatever, not older teens in separate families - the whole reincarnated in the past I like to poke fun at (in so far as that’s my relative understanding of how they got that way in the comics). Or something

[The Church of Satan]

I'm sure this has been discussed multiple times in this gargantuan thread, but please indulge me, anyway; are you more partial to Marvel or DC and why?

I prefer DC, primarily because of its less mainstream characters. Flex Mentallo, Negative Man, Danny the Street, Crazy Jane, Robot Man, Mr. Nobody, Mentallium Man, Niles Caulder, Burnout, Fairchild, Freefall, Grunge, Rainmaker, Lobo, the Space Cabbie, Doctor Manhattan, and The Phantom Stranger (among many others.) Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Marvel's work, but DC took a walk on the wild side with awesome writers such as Grant Morrison and ended up with their best unsung heroes (and villains.) I'll take them over the Justice League any day of the week.

[Forsher]

Re: Children’s Crusade

Obviously she screwed up by looking for them as directly twins or being the age she knew or whatever, not older teens in separate families - the whole reincarnated in the past I like to poke fun at (in so far as that’s my relative understanding of how they got that way in the comics). Or something

I mean, it could be the case that by the time she started looking, they'd already reincarnated.

Someone was suggesting on the subreddit that a way of bringing Wanda back would be to have her have an adventure in Hell. Finally give the fans the Mephisto appearance they've been clamouring for, sort of thing.

Anyway, I was thinking, what if the kid's dad in universes like 838 where they're not artificial constructs created by magic is Simon Williams and this is why Vision wasn't around?

[Kiddian States]

Re: Children’s Crusade

Obviously she screwed up by looking for them as directly twins or being the age she knew or whatever, not older teens in separate families - the whole reincarnated in the past I like to poke fun at (in so far as that’s my relative understanding of how they got that way in the comics). Or something

I mean, it could be the case that by the time she started looking, they'd already reincarnated.

Someone was suggesting on the subreddit that a way of bringing Wanda back would be to have her have an adventure in Hell. Finally give the fans the Mephisto appearance they've been clamouring for, sort of thing.

Anyway, I was thinking, what if the kid's dad in universes like 838 where they're not artificial constructs created by magic is Simon Williams and this is why Vision wasn't around?

Who?

[Pasong Tirad]

Seriously, Disney, buddy. Just. Let your people breathe a little before pushing out the content. Give them, like, a year more to produce a series. Just one year, so series that have so much potential don't end up looking like, well, episode 4.

Ending had a nice set up. Hopefully episode 5 is better. End credits feature cool art.