MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Christian Confederation]

Is it just me or did everyone from the Star Wars Sequels careers crash?

Anakin's actor, sure... I even find myself unable to recall his name at the moment but I think the only other thing of note he's been in is Jumper (about which, screw the haters, that film's great) but Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor have had very successful careers.

Derp you said sequels

Not really. Adam Driver is clearly doing better than the other three (and, imo, has clearly established himself as an Actor^TM), with Oscar Isaac second and the other two (whose names I'm blanking on) seeming to be on a more Anakin actor esque path.

Adam Driver has done fine, Oscar Isaac has only done moon knight since Star Wars. Daisy Ridley was in Orient Express or the sequel I think. I can't even remember the name of Finns actor but I think he quite acting all together.

[Cannot think of a name]

Is it just me or did everyone from the Star Wars Sequels careers crash?

Adam Driver? Oscar Isaac? Really?

Daisy Ridley and John Boyega...even Kelly Marie Tran are all working steady with multiple projects coming out over the last three years. What metric are you using?

[Cannot think of a name]

Anakin's actor, sure... I even find myself unable to recall his name at the moment but I think the only other thing of note he's been in is Jumper (about which, screw the haters, that film's great) but Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor have had very successful careers.

Derp you said sequels

Not really. Adam Driver is clearly doing better than the other three (and, imo, has clearly established himself as an Actor^TM), with Oscar Isaac second and the other two (whose names I'm blanking on) seeming to be on a more Anakin actor esque path.

Adam Driver has done fine, Oscar Isaac has only done moon knight since Star Wars. Daisy Ridley was in Orient Express or the sequel I think. I can't even remember the name of Finns actor but I think he quite acting all together.

Oscar Isaac was just in Dune. And Scenes from a Marriage. And The Card Counter. John Boyega was in Small Axe and has three projects in post production.

Have you heard of IMDb.com? It lets you look up movies and actors to see whose in them or what they're doing, respectively.

[Forsher]

Adam Driver has done fine, Oscar Isaac has only done moon knight since Star Wars. Daisy Ridley was in Orient Express or the sequel I think. I can't even remember the name of Finns actor but I think he quite acting all together.

Oscar Isaac was just in Dune. And Scenes from a Marriage. And The Card Counter. John Boyega was in Small Axe and has three projects in post production.

Have you heard of IMDb.com? It lets you look up movies and actors to see whose in them or what they're doing, respectively.

I mean, it's not even as if there's any particular reason for their careers to "kick on" just because they were in big block busters.

If you consider the MCU, for example, it obviously completed the resurrection of Robert Downey Jr's career and launched Chris Pratt to the next level, but generally people are taking the same "level" of role they were before and after.

There are six examples that I think require a little bit more discussion.

Chris Hemsworth is an interesting example because I don't think it's really fair to say that he's had much success outside of Thor. However, like Chris Pratt he's clearly been taking those kind of roles when they're offered to him.

Tom Holland has been in some stuff is probably the best way to describe his non-MCU career. I wouldn't necessarily say he's trying to become an action star but nor would I say he's pursuing the Chris Evans route of just being in stuff he wants to be in.

From my point of view, Zendaya is an MCU star in the same way Chris Pratt is. However, my understanding is that Zendaya was really already Zendaya before the MCU and she seems to want to establish herself as a serious actress... hence, Euphoria. (And, of course, she was also in Dune, for a given value of being in Dune.)

Benedict Cumberbatch may have hurt his career by becoming Doctor Strange. Alternatively he cashed in at the peak of an unsustainable level of memeness. Either way, he's a star because of Sherlock, not the MCU.

Tom Hiddleston seems to prefer prestige television to being a movie star. However, his career looks kind of... scratchy.

Brie Larson seems to be taking a Chris Pratt esque approach of "I'm an action star" now. It remains to be seen if it's working* but she's in the Fastchise now, so that's something. Of course, unlike Pratt, she was established as a serious actress before the MCU.

If anything, it looks to me that what happens is franchises like Star Wars or the MCU just allow actors to get paid enough to choose to do what they want. And usually they don't want to be big budget action stars (which, rightly or wrongly, is what I imagine CC is thinking of). There are far too many examples of things like High Rise or The Night Manager or The Essex Serpent relative to Kong: Skull Islands (all Hiddleston roles) to make me think otherwise.

However, I really do think interest in Ridley and Boyega has dropped off a cliff post-sequels and I assume that's what CC was thinking of.

* She and Hiddleston were in Kong Skull Island. Their characters finished on a blatant sequel hook but Godzilla vs Kong time skipped them to irrelevance, it seems. Bit unfair; I liked them. I guess it's possible Hiddleston looked at this series of events and thought, "Well, why not do some more prestige stuff?"

[Lord Dominator]

As a mild addendum, I would raise that the people playing the biggest characters in the MCU and still doing so may have had their careers a smidge compromised by the number of MCU movies. I don’t otherwise disagree with Forsher’s analysis (not that this bit is really disagreement).

[Cannot think of a name]

Stray thought re:MoM:

You know what really went wrong in 838? No Wong. A dead Doctor Strange didn't result in the same thing a disappeared Doctor Strange did in 616/199999, which is to say Wong was in charge. Instead it got Mordo.

Seems pretty clear. Wong is holding all this shit together.

[Christian Confederation]

As a mild addendum, I would raise that the people playing the biggest characters in the MCU and still doing so may have had their careers a smidge compromised by the number of MCU movies. I don’t otherwise disagree with Forsher’s analysis (not that this bit is really disagreement).

Yeah I could have worded it better. Big franchise movies can make or break actors. Like before Spider-Man nobody knew who Tom Holland was now he's known world wide.
Then there's the Hayden Christiansens out there who are known for being in one thing and disappearing.
RDJ is probably set for life with all the MCU money but others need to keep working to keep the life they've become accustomed to.

[Gig em Aggies]

So I watched Dr. Strange and the MOM yesterday does the ending mean Dormammu will return along with Kaecilius and his followers sometime down the road?

[Lord Dominator]

Yo, mark your potential spoilers

[Cannot think of a name]

So I watched Dr. Strange and the MOM yesterday does the ending mean Dormammu will return along with Kaecilius and his followers sometime down the road?

I guess it depends on how much of Clea they're keeping. They changed Quill's dad, Ego became a Celestial (or lied about being a Celestial). Mantis is so different about the only thing she retained was antennae.

The question I think is whether Incursion is 'the big event' or if Incursion is a prelude to Secret Wars.

If it's Secret Wars do they just find a way for Doom to steal multiverse mojo from the TVA or Kang or do they actually have The Beyonder show up.

If he does they should deep fake Michael Landon in the role to replicate the Beyonders 80s hair.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Just got back from seeing Multiverse of Madness and im sorry to say i was kind of disappointed, movie didnt really do a lot for me, it was okay but nothing special and i think the first one was better if im honest.

Shame really, this was the marvel movie i was looking forward to the most the last year and a bit.

[Forsher]

Just got back from seeing Multiverse of Madness and im sorry to say i was kind of disappointed, movie didnt really do a lot for me, it was okay but nothing special and i think the first one was better if im honest.

Shame really, this was the marvel movie i was looking forward to the most the last year and a bit.

This is why I made sure to spoil myself of the Maguire and Garfield Spider-Man rumours... I didn't want them to be in NWH because I thought it'd make the movie horribly bloated. Obviously they were in it, but by the time I saw it, I'd tempered my expectations and it wasn't a problem.

I guess there's something similar with the Illuminati in DSMoM but I loathed Loki's attempts to tell a multiversal storyline so I imagine it's going to be quite difficult to get too disappointed by MCU Exiles knockoff version 3 (though, I suppose, the trailers rather present the Illuminati as more like puppet masters, but I don't really believe that's their function). And, similarly, as long as it's actually universal, they can always fix the Illuminati later if necessary.

Alternatively, there are so many aspects of DSMoM that are just going to trigger the fuck out of me, I should probably just read the Wikipedia page and watch it for the visuals.

[Lord Dominator]

I was reading up on the TVtropes page for the first DS, hit characters, and unwisely looked at something marked “spoiler character” for reasons that elude me, and I an saddened by my chronic habit of playing chicken with spoilers.

[Gig em Aggies]

So I was just pondering was the Illuminati just as short sighted as the TVA by focusing only on a future threat caused by Dr. Strange, but not a here and now threat like Scarlet Witch. and will we see most of them return maybe minus Black bolts actor and Prof X's actor

Plus about 838 does that Wanda actually have the same powers as 616 Wanda pre Dark hold?

[Cannot think of a name]

So I was just pondering was the Illuminati just as short sighted as the TVA by focusing only on a future threat caused by Dr. Strange, but not a here and now threat like Scarlet Witch. and will we see most of them return maybe minus Black bolts actor and Prof X's actor

Plus about 838 does that Wanda actually have the same powers as 616 Wanda pre Dark hold?

Well, I think from the Illuminati's point of view Doctor Strange's unilateral moves were always because of a threat that leaves him no choice that he doesn't have time to explain or whatever. So, obviously, they underestimated the Scarlet Witch but they were in a 'sorcerer who cried wolf' kind of scenario. And generally speaking Black Bolt can kinda be the finishing move most of the time. Though I don't know why they didn't take into account magic nonsense and telegraph that move to Wanda. Reed kinda screwed the pooch with that. If Black Bolt could have gotten a word in edgewise (Hahaha, I slay me...) it might have been enough to stop her. Or not. She is coo coo bananas powerful.

It occurs to me that this is the second time in a row that Doctor Strange has faced a villain too powerful for him to subdue and instead has to negotiate a resolution instead. Well, him and Wong.

I think the general conniption fit the internet would have with someone else being cast as Reed Richards would be overwhelming. I caught a spoiler video with subtitles of the introduction of the Illuminati and it occurs to me he was making a 'Fab 4' joke and has never heard of the Fantastic 4. Maria Rambeau could end up in a flashback. She was already in Captain Marvel. Her daughter will be in Marvels.

But yeah, that's the last we'll see of Anson Mount and maybe Patrick Stewart.

Kinda surprised Namor wasn't in it. Would have been a little crowded I guess. The only completely fresh character they introduced was Reed Richards (and even then...two franchises later...). In an ensemble like that when they're only going to be part of the story having to go "Okay hear us out...he's like Aquaman, but...like, kinda a dick about it. And I know the DCEU has their Aquaman as kinda a dick with a dollop of surfer depending on the director, but like Namor has always been a dick. Also, openly tries to get Sue Storm to leave Reed and join him in front of Reed. And also also, about half the time he's actually trying to kill the people on the surface because we're just too much hassle. So that's Namor...now, about Doctor Strange..."

EDIT: Yes, she does. Partially because that's not uncommon as there are other Doctor Stranges with Doctor Strange powers, Black Bolt etc. She might also be their Nexus being but lived a happy life and isn't tearing things apart. Or lived a sad life, rearranged reality so that she'd have kids and let Strange take the fall for it and no one else noticed. Professor X didn't see anything out of place though. Who knows.

[Lord Dominator]

“…is entrenched in the Warner Bros. vision of every DC movie being a sequel, prequel, and spinoff of every other DC movie.”

(A cracked article describing Batman v Superman)

[Cannot think of a name]

“…is entrenched in the Warner Bros. vision of every DC movie being a sequel, prequel, and spinoff of every other DC movie.”

(A cracked article describing Batman v Superman)

"We have the rights to the original superhero comic universe with some of the most recognizable characters and are responsible for some of the most universally beloved comic book adaptations and yet somehow we're still not sure what the fuck we're doing..." DC kind of baffles me now and then.

[The Orwell Society]

I think everyone can agree that Marvel is better than DC, right?

[Forsher]

I think everyone can agree that Marvel is better than DC, right?

Depends what you mean by the question.

I respect the storytelling of the Snyderverse more than I do the MCU. Honestly, it's not even close.

The MCU films are more enjoyable as a whole.

The MCU is much less creatively daring than DC's films are, which goes some way to explaining why there is no MCU movie that I would recommend to someone asking for "a serious superhero film" or "a film that respects that the world isn't silly for the people living in it" (except, maybe, the first two MCU films, i.e. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk).

And there is a reason I don't read DC despite originally experimenting with both company's comics as a child. On the other hand, you might alternatively express this as "there's a reason I don't read Marvel aside from a subset of books that mostly aren't adapted by the MCU".

But, most germane to CTOAN's quote, when it comes to which is the better investment product, the answer is clearly Marvel. I would go as far to say, DC knew what they wanted and then didn't get as much money from doing it as they hoped so are now very confused.

[The Church of Satan]

I think everyone can agree that Marvel is better than DC, right?

In some respects, yes. Others, not so much.

Marvel's live-action shows and movies are clearly better than DC's. DC's animated shows and movies are clearly better than Marvel's.

DC sure is trying to break that mold though. Flash and Supergirl were good. Arrow was...well, it wasn't bad but it wasn't necessarily good either. Batwoman was absolutely terrible.

Marvel however is largely sticking to its strengths (i.e. they're not trying too hard to barge into animated shows and movies,) although there were two Wolverine animated shows that were pretty good, but only because the art style was anime. Any other art style would have been too risky for them. They took a safe bet and it paid off.

As for the comics, they're both trying to cater to the woke crowd and the results are pretty mixed, but it's on the low end, bordering ever so slightly between "bad" and "passable."

So overall it's not nearly as clear cut as you suggest it is.

[Christian Confederation]

DC is good at Animation and Marvel is Good at Live Acton. Both are 50/50 on the comic front.

[Seangoli]

I think everyone can agree that Marvel is better than DC, right?

In some respects, yes. Others, not so much.

Marvel's live-action shows and movies are clearly better than DC's. DC's animated shows and movies are clearly better than Marvel's.

DC sure is trying to break that mold though. Flash and Supergirl were good. Arrow was...well, it wasn't bad but it wasn't necessarily good either. Batwoman was absolutely terrible.

Marvel however is largely sticking to its strengths (i.e. they're not trying too hard to barge into animated shows and movies,) although there were two Wolverine animated shows that were pretty good, but only because the art style was anime. Any other art style would have been too risky for them. They took a safe bet and it paid off.

As for the comics, they're both trying to cater to the woke crowd and the results are pretty mixed, but it's on the low end, bordering ever so slightly between "bad" and "passable."

So overall it's not nearly as clear cut as you suggest it is.

I disagree to an extent that Marvel's films are better than DC's. I think the MCU is better than the DCEU, however I also think that singular movies from DC are excellent in ways that Marvel cannot emulate. The DCEU is a mess, however singular DC movies are great (the first Wonder Woman, The Suicide Squad 2021, The Batman, etc.).

[The Church of Satan]

I disagree to an extent that Marvel's films are better than DC's. I think the MCU is better than the DCEU, however I also think that singular movies from DC are excellent in ways that Marvel cannot emulate. The DCEU is a mess, however singular DC movies are great (the first Wonder Woman, The Suicide Squad 2021, The Batman, etc.).

DC's live-action movies have been a toss up. Marvel's, however, have been consistently good. DC manages to put out a good one occasionally. Frankly, the best live-action thing DC has released over the last five years is the Doom Patrol show, and it was a huge risk for them because it's so unorthodox. Marvel has seen repeated success over the same period of time on their live-action works. DC can't rely on taking a gamble with less traditional heroes and expect similar results. :-/

[Lord Dominator]

I do agree with Forsher on Snyder’s story, if not necessarily what actually came out of it - and on the part of being a little more willing to try different kinds of movies.

[Seangoli]

Just got back from seeing Multiverse of Madness and im sorry to say i was kind of disappointed, movie didnt really do a lot for me, it was okay but nothing special and i think the first one was better if im honest.

Shame really, this was the marvel movie i was looking forward to the most the last year and a bit.

I agree. I really was unimpressed with this go around for a lot of reasons. It felt a lot less mind-melty as the original, often disjointed and all over the place, and frankly I feel Raimi and Elfman harmed the finished product more than they helped it. There were some good parts that were distinctly Raimi, but ultimately it hurt the overall tone of the film as I personally feel his schlock horror style wears thin pretty fast. And ultimately, I felt it focused more on that then the "wtf-edness" that the film had potential for.

I also just don't like Elfman as for music. He is pretty one-note, and everything just comes off as generic backgroundusic because of it.

Frankly, it had so much potential, and it felt squandered by Raimi leaning so heavily into his personal style, and uninspired scores by Elfman. Rather than giving it a life of its own, it felt like Raimi doing Raimi things and Elfman phoning it in.