MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Cannot think of a name]

To do what?

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

I was entertained.

[Lord Dominator]

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

I was entertained.

As was I

[Lord Dominator]

I don't know that they're going to be super rigid about that, or even really call her Captain Marvel. But they do seem to be playing up the idea that there's going to be multiples of the people who use "Marvel" in their name. I mean, look...I'm just wildly guessing on a title in an announcement video. I don't know what they're gonna do.

Carol and Monica fly to space to rescue Kamala from the Kree who are kidnapping Inhumans to turn them into weapons.

Gets all three characters involved, allows the MCU to smoothly reintroduce Inhumans again, keeps the film focussed on major ideas from the first film (about the Kree), allows the return of Yon Rogg and/or the Supreme Intelligence in a villainous role, allows the movie to balance the space character nature of Carol with the more Earth bound Ms Marvel and the in-between the two status of Monica. Oh, and it's a really clear way of introducing how Kamala thinks about superheroes.

Downsides are, of course, that it's a bit damsel in distress-y.

Wikipedia informs me that The Marvels will come after the Ms Marvel show, but that’s all I got.

[Cannot think of a name]

Carol and Monica fly to space to rescue Kamala from the Kree who are kidnapping Inhumans to turn them into weapons.

Gets all three characters involved, allows the MCU to smoothly reintroduce Inhumans again, keeps the film focussed on major ideas from the first film (about the Kree), allows the return of Yon Rogg and/or the Supreme Intelligence in a villainous role, allows the movie to balance the space character nature of Carol with the more Earth bound Ms Marvel and the in-between the two status of Monica. Oh, and it's a really clear way of introducing how Kamala thinks about superheroes.

Downsides are, of course, that it's a bit damsel in distress-y.

Wikipedia informs me that The Marvels will come after the Ms Marvel show, but that’s all I got.

She could have come across terrigen that activated her powers and then alerts the Kree that the Inhumans are still on Earth.

Carol is in space, last we saw Monica she was heading into space. I guess the Kree is as good a way as any to get Kamala into space.

Speaking of Carol, it took about half a day before I ran into the Brie Larson is the Worst crowd that naturally interpreted this as Marvel lowkey replacing Brie Larson because fanbros don't like her. You know, fanbros are clearly dictating policy at fucking Disney in their follow up to a billion dollar movie.

[Vassenor]

To do what?

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

Guess you'd better stay away from everything to do with the X-Men then. Since the whole thing is a Civil Rights parallel.

[Forsher]

Carol and Monica fly to space to rescue Kamala from the Kree who are kidnapping Inhumans to turn them into weapons.

Gets all three characters involved, allows the MCU to smoothly reintroduce Inhumans again, keeps the film focussed on major ideas from the first film (about the Kree), allows the return of Yon Rogg and/or the Supreme Intelligence in a villainous role, allows the movie to balance the space character nature of Carol with the more Earth bound Ms Marvel and the in-between the two status of Monica. Oh, and it's a really clear way of introducing how Kamala thinks about superheroes.

Downsides are, of course, that it's a bit damsel in distress-y.

Wikipedia informs me that The Marvels will come after the Ms Marvel show, but that’s all I got.

I guess the fangirl, creepy fanfic writer (Kamala is one of those creeps who writes fanfics about, from her fictional perspective, real people) aspects will be previously established then, but I fully expect part of Ms Marvel will be her not knowing about why she has powers.

by Vassenor » Tue 04 May, 2021 8:06 pm

They prefer the term metaphor.

[The Alma Mater]

To do what?

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

You do know what Marvel comics *is* - right ? Complaining it is political is like complaining candy is sweet.

[Tarsonis]

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

You do know what Marvel comics *is* - right ? Complaining it is political is like complaining candy is sweet.

What X-Men is a metaphor for race relations in the 60's? I thought it was just colorful people in spandex having fun

[Vassenor]

You do know what Marvel comics *is* - right ? Complaining it is political is like complaining candy is sweet.

What X-Men is a metaphor for race relations in the 60's? I thought it was just colorful people in spandex having fun

"Have you tried... not being a mutant?"

[Lord Dominator]

You do know what Marvel comics *is* - right ? Complaining it is political is like complaining candy is sweet.

What X-Men is a metaphor for race relations in the 60's? I thought it was just colorful people in spandex having fun

I believe in like the 90s it was gay rights for the comparison, and right now there’s some low-key Israel ones going on (partly because they have a full country again).

[Ameriganastan]

To make an actual entertaining superhero show, and not a political Twitter post with Marvel actors.

Guess you'd better stay away from everything to do with the X-Men then. Since the whole thing is a Civil Rights parallel.

I'm aware. And as I've stated previously, I don't think the metaphor works with them. Since, you know, Mutants are legitimately dangerous and probably should be monitored.

[Tarsonis]

Guess you'd better stay away from everything to do with the X-Men then. Since the whole thing is a Civil Rights parallel.

I'm aware. And as I've stated previously, I don't think the metaphor works with them. Since, you know, Mutants are legitimately dangerous and probably should be monitored.

Yeah, Senators Kelly might have been a prick but he did have a legitimate point.


Especially after Xavier almost killed all the mutants, then all the humans, and then Did kill a whole lot of people.

[Ameriganastan]

Going back to my issues with F&TWS: I don't think Anthony Mackie is that good of an actor. I mean he's fine as the secondary guy, but once they put him in the lead role here, I think he flubbed it. Like there was no charisma here.

[Vassenor]

Andrew Garfield formally puts the kibosh on the No Way Home rumours.

So presumably we're going to get chapter and verse about how this is all lies because it doesn't fit what people want to believe.

[Cannot think of a name]

Andrew Garfield formally puts the kibosh on the No Way Home rumours.

So presumably we're going to get chapter and verse about how this is all lies because it doesn't fit what people want to believe.

Already seen it. In fact, the only way I've seen that video is via some dude breaking down why this video actually confirms that Garfield is in it. Mainly his unwillingness to say specifically "I am not in this movie" but instead "I didn't get the call."

Assuming that's the same interview. Yeah, it is. I'd link the video I watched claiming this was confirmation but...I mean...

[Cannot think of a name]

Couple of days ago so maybe someone mentioned it but I missed it, turns out the commercials in WandaVision were a coded message from or to Doctor Strange who was trying to break the hex from the outside. He was actually scheduled to be in the finale like some people erroneously and confidently predicted like it was the tides...sigh...but they ultimately decided that detracted from Wanda’s story.

https://www.slashfilm.com/wandavision-d ... nge-cameo/

[Ameriganastan]

Couple of days ago so maybe someone mentioned it but I missed it, turns out the commercials in WandaVision were a coded message from or to Doctor Strange who was trying to break the hex from the outside. He was actually scheduled to be in the finale like some people erroneously and confidently predicted like it was the tides...sigh...but they ultimately decided that detracted from Wanda’s story.

https://www.slashfilm.com/wandavision-d ... nge-cameo/

That sounds made up.

[Lord Dominator]

Couple of days ago so maybe someone mentioned it but I missed it, turns out the commercials in WandaVision were a coded message from or to Doctor Strange who was trying to break the hex from the outside. He was actually scheduled to be in the finale like some people erroneously and confidently predicted like it was the tides...sigh...but they ultimately decided that detracted from Wanda’s story.

https://www.slashfilm.com/wandavision-d ... nge-cameo/

That sounds made up.

I mean, I found the Rolling Stone article (preview) that CTOAN’s article sources from, and they’re reasonably reputable (I understand):
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news ... n-1164455/

[Lord Dominator]

In my various meanderings around the comics and adjacent, I have come to believe that Mephisto is not a good bet in terms of entities possibly screwing with Wanda (and to a lesser extent, Strange), and that Cthon is much more likely.

Most importantly, I’m pretty sure the whole thing with her kids originally being pieces of his soul was largely accidental on his part - as best I can tell, he was basically exploded at the time she used his soul fragments, and taking them back was primarily a matter of putting himself back to better, with making her insane as side-benefit.

On the Cthon side, he’s the source of Chaos magic in the comics, as well as writer of the Darkhold - he’s tried to possess her several times (and manipulated some events of her early life to that end). His origin includes being the original evil sorcerer or sumsuch, up to the position of Sorcerer Supreme originally being created to oppose him (obviously, these days it’s more associated with opposing Dormammu, or to a lesser extent Shuma-Gorath).

Edit: Not to say Mephisto isn’t still a possibility or has potential in other areas, but rather that Cthon has more of a connection to comics!Wanda to utilize in the movies.

[Cannot think of a name]

In my various meanderings around the comics and adjacent, I have come to believe that Mephisto is not a good bet in terms of entities possibly screwing with Wanda (and to a lesser extent, Strange), and that Cthon is much more likely.

Most importantly, I’m pretty sure the whole thing with her kids originally being pieces of his soul was largely accidental on his part - as best I can tell, he was basically exploded at the time she used his soul fragments, and taking them back was primarily a matter of putting himself back to better, with making her insane as side-benefit.

On the Cthon side, he’s the source of Chaos magic in the comics, as well as writer of the Darkhold - he’s tried to possess her several times (and manipulated some events of her early life to that end). His origin includes being the original evil sorcerer or sumsuch, up to the position of Sorcerer Supreme originally being created to oppose him (obviously, these days it’s more associated with opposing Dormammu, or to a lesser extent Shuma-Gorath).

Edit: Not to say Mephisto isn’t still a possibility or has potential in other areas, but rather that Cthon has more of a connection to comics!Wanda to utilize in the movies.

The finale we could have gotten with Master Pandemonium...


You're right, though, Cthon is WAY more involved in Wanda's stories than Mephisto. Mephisto is really just a wish fans keep making and it came to a head during WandaVision. I mean, there was even 'evidence' of Mephisto in Falcon & the Winter Soldier where he was NEVER going to show up.

I don't know if they'll go more bonkers or less bonkers in the movie. I was led astray in that i thought Nightmare was an announced villain and not a theorized villain and from there I filled in a lot of spaces. It seems as my 'insider' (who doesn't tell me shit as far as leaks or spoilers or details) has moved on to another Marvel series they are really using the longer format to do more on character which means you won't get really big reveals as much as you'll get a deep dive on Wanda's grief of the political weight of handing the shield to a black man or Loki re-re-re-learning about his role in the universe. Though I guess when you get to characters like Ms Marvel and She Hulk those are inherently reveals. I don't know when the new character ones start. I guess Hawkeye is the transition as it's an old character mentoring a new character.

Ms Marvel looks fun. I was sort of neutral on that but the more they've revealed the more I'm looking forward to it. Kind of hope it leads to a Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur show.

I guess the comic wasn't that popular but a Howling Commandos based on the last one where Dum Dum lead a team that had a zombie Sitwell, Man Thing, Hit Monkey...I liked the team. The story was meh. I liked the team though.

[Lord Dominator]

Me, I’m most excited for What If? and Secret Wars

On Strange 2, I’m mostly on the Nightmare train because he seems fairly logical for a semi-horror movie + the director of the first originally having wanted him for that one. Who knows, maybe the horror elements aren’t a principal feature of the villain (Cthon, Mephisto) or they’ll go cosmic horror (Shuma-Gorath). Idk really

[Cannot think of a name]

Me, I’m most excited for What If? and Secret Wars

On Strange 2, I’m mostly on the Nightmare train because he seems fairly logical for a semi-horror movie + the director of the first originally having wanted him for that one. Who knows, maybe the horror elements aren’t a principal feature of the villain (Cthon, Mephisto) or they’ll go cosmic horror (Shuma-Gorath). Idk really

What If looks cool as fuck. I would love for them to do Secret Wars. Though I’d want them to do a whole phase that’s Secret Wars. Like do the 2015 Secret Wars with Doom and the Battleworld and just have a whole phase of movies take place in that reality. That’d be a bit much but it’d bre cool. I think at best they’d just do another two parter they don’t consider a two parter.

[Forsher]

In my various meanderings around the comics and adjacent, I have come to believe that Mephisto is not a good bet in terms of entities possibly screwing with Wanda (and to a lesser extent, Strange), and that Cthon is much more likely.

Most importantly, I’m pretty sure the whole thing with her kids originally being pieces of his soul was largely accidental on his part - as best I can tell, he was basically exploded at the time she used his soul fragments, and taking them back was primarily a matter of putting himself back to better, with making her insane as side-benefit.

On the Cthon side, he’s the source of Chaos magic in the comics, as well as writer of the Darkhold - he’s tried to possess her several times (and manipulated some events of her early life to that end). His origin includes being the original evil sorcerer or sumsuch, up to the position of Sorcerer Supreme originally being created to oppose him (obviously, these days it’s more associated with opposing Dormammu, or to a lesser extent Shuma-Gorath).

Edit: Not to say Mephisto isn’t still a possibility or has potential in other areas, but rather that Cthon has more of a connection to comics!Wanda to utilize in the movies.

Mephisto's linked with the Twins, not Wanda. People thought he'd be in WandaVision because (a) he's the devil type one and (b) the references were all to the devil and/or the Twins rather than Wanda. (Mephisto's whole shtick also created a Faustian explanation for the Hex, but no-one was really interested in character driven theorising so that isn't really relevant.)

But we've seen with Runaways (and possibly also what happened with Ghost Rider and Helstrom), that the MCU doesn't have the guts to go into this kind of Christian-esque mythology (I know, I know demons are hardly unique to Christian mythology but they've captured the market).

Me, I’m most excited for What If? and Secret Wars

On Strange 2, I’m mostly on the Nightmare train because he seems fairly logical for a semi-horror movie + the director of the first originally having wanted him for that one. Who knows, maybe the horror elements aren’t a principal feature of the villain (Cthon, Mephisto) or they’ll go cosmic horror (Shuma-Gorath). Idk really

What If? looks like a trainwreck that consists far too much of "what if X character was Y hero instead" rather than exploring more conceptual ideas combined with dodgy (read: unconventional aesthetic choices) animation.

[Ameriganastan]

What If? looks like a trainwreck that consists far too much of "what if X character was Y hero instead" rather than exploring more conceptual ideas combined with dodgy (read: unconventional aesthetic choices) animation.

People said the same thing about the animation in the previews for Spiderverse, and look how that turned out.

[Forsher]

What If? looks like a trainwreck that consists far too much of "what if X character was Y hero instead" rather than exploring more conceptual ideas combined with dodgy (read: unconventional aesthetic choices) animation.

People said the same thing about the animation in the previews for Spiderverse, and look how that turned out.

That's why I said "read: unconventional aesthetic choices".

You can drag your audience with you, yes, but you can also not and you end up abandoning what was distinct for S2 (if it gets made), see: The Dragon Prince.