MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Cannot think of a name]

Welcome to Ameri’s unique brand of ‘fandom.’

Well sorry I'm not jumping up and down for one of the B-team Avengers getting her own movie.

There it is...

[Forsher]

a court case against Peter

And he's being represented by Matt Murdock, obviously.

This would be best if they did use Kingpin. I was thinking Jennifer Walters, frankly.

• Doctor Strange reveals that he's worried Peter might be tempted by Mephisto, an enemy he (Strange) has sworn to fight... but Stephen's so arrogant and patronising he makes it easier for Mephisto to sway Peter when he shows up later
• Mephisto shows up, Peter makes a deal, Peter realises the deal is terrible and tries to get help from Doctor Strange who, due to the deal, has no idea who he is... and because of Peter's actions earlier in the film Electro is still after Peter Parker (independently of knowing Peter is Spidey) so possibly Doctor Strange attacks Peter as well
• Doctor Strange shows up and offers a magical way out... claiming that there is a high cost to the solution

I can't really see the first one working as they already know each other and Spider-Man knows it was Dr. Strange who had the plan to defeat Thanos so he'd probably listen anyway.

I dunno... Strange's plan did create the Blip and got Tony killed.

The second option would introduce demons and hell into the MCU, I guess that's something that'll happen eventually (new Ghost Rider set up perhaps). For the third the cost could be that Spider-Man moves to a new reality where he's unknown, thereby getting him into the Sony-verse.

I don't know if the Sony-verse is the way to go, honestly. I feel like bringing in old Sony actors is a deliberate strategy on Disney's part to say to Sony, "Look we're committed to helping you benefit financially". Opening the doors to crossovers between them... seems better (although, honestly, in this film I feel like doing this will just be a way to cheaply sidestep an identity reveal AGAIN).

[Ameriganastan]

Well sorry I'm not jumping up and down for one of the B-team Avengers getting her own movie.

There it is...

Hey skippy, you brought this up by quoting a post from almost a month ago. So don't try and take that dismissive attitude with me.

[Forsher]

There it is...

Hey skippy, you brought this up by quoting a post from almost a month ago. So don't try and take that dismissive attitude with me.

That was the other poster.

Not especially, no.

ok

CTOAN just followed up on it.

Non critical fans aren't true fans anyway.

[Cannot think of a name]

There it is...

Hey skippy, you brought this up by quoting a post from almost a month ago. So don't try and take that dismissive attitude with me.

Uh dude...I responded to something posted four hours ago. You really need to relax.

[New haven america]

Well sorry I'm not jumping up and down for one of the B-team Avengers getting her own movie.

There it is...

Anyone wanna tell him that most Marvel properties Disney bought was the B-D list stuff?

[Cannot think of a name]

There it is...

Anyone wanna tell him that most Marvel properties Disney bought was the B-D list stuff?

There was an article all the way back in 2006 or 2007 or so when Marvel had just announced that they were going to do the shared universe and Variety or Hollywood Reporter asking if Marvel could make a go of it with b and c list characters like Iron Man and Captain America, figuring that they had sold off the only properties anyone would care about, the X-Men, Spider-man, and the Fantastic Four. At the time Captain America had had two at bats that were awful and The Hulk was widely panned. It seems weird now to think of Iron Man as anything other than the top tier character, but the MCU did that. Iron Man didn’t penetrate outside the comic book shop until they dug up an actor that was hard to insure and made both Iron Man and RDJ juggernauts.

[New haven america]

Anyone wanna tell him that most Marvel properties Disney bought was the B-D list stuff?

There was an article all the way back in 2006 or 2007 or so when Marvel had just announced that they were going to do the shared universe and Variety or Hollywood Reporter asking if Marvel could make a go of it with b and c list characters like Iron Man and Captain America, figuring that they had sold off the only properties anyone would care about, the X-Men, Spider-man, and the Fantastic Four. At the time Captain America had had two at bats that were awful and The Hulk was widely panned. It seems weird now to think of Iron Man as anything other than the top tier character, but the MCU did that. Iron Man didn’t penetrate outside the comic book shop until they dug up an actor that was hard to insure and made both Iron Man and RDJ juggernauts.

And now it's the reverse. Iron Man and Cap are beloved heroes of this generation while no one gives a shit about The F4 or X-Men, and Spider-Man's seen as having a 2 decades long identity crisis.

[Cannot think of a name]

There was an article all the way back in 2006 or 2007 or so when Marvel had just announced that they were going to do the shared universe and Variety or Hollywood Reporter asking if Marvel could make a go of it with b and c list characters like Iron Man and Captain America, figuring that they had sold off the only properties anyone would care about, the X-Men, Spider-man, and the Fantastic Four. At the time Captain America had had two at bats that were awful and The Hulk was widely panned. It seems weird now to think of Iron Man as anything other than the top tier character, but the MCU did that. Iron Man didn’t penetrate outside the comic book shop until they dug up an actor that was hard to insure and made both Iron Man and RDJ juggernauts.

And now it's the reverse. Iron Man and Cap are beloved heroes of this generation and no one gives a shit about The F4 or X-Men, and Spider-Man's seen as having a 2 decades long identity crisis.

Meanwhile Guardians of the fucking Galaxy are household names. That as a deep cut even for comic book folk.

[Ameriganastan]

Meanwhile Guardians of the fucking Galaxy are household names. That as a deep cut even for comic book folk.

I remember I'd never heard of them before they showed up on an episode of Ultimate Spider-Man.

[Cannot think of a name]

Meanwhile Guardians of the fucking Galaxy are household names. That as a deep cut even for comic book folk.

I remember I'd never heard of them before they showed up on an episode of Ultimate Spider-Man.

I knew Rocket Racoon and vaguely knew Starlord. Legit thought Nebula was a good guy. I might have seen the title but it certainly never registered with me. But I was never that into space Marvel.

I was more mutant marvel and 'street' Marvel like Daredevil, Power Man and Iron Fist, Moon Knight and thanks to Ghost Rider some supernatural Marvel.

[Forsher]

Woah, let's slow our roll here guys.

Sure, people hadn't heard of Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye... and would've thought of Norse Mythology with Thor so he doesn't count either... but that doesn't make these characters even B-listers. They were, and are, the foundational Avengers... Cap and Iron Man were the primary characters in the major crossover of the century (sure, it was six years into the century but still). They were, within the comics, the A list. Even more so, in some ways, the X-Men and Spider-Man (who were, it must be said, better known).

(Hulk, of course, had a reasonably famous movie... sure it bombed, but it was a $250m gross/$137m budget bomb... and a very popular TV show.)

Even the Guardians who were... and kind of still are... comics B-listers, had been part of the MAJOR cosmic storylines years before Nicole Perlman wrote the first script and chose the characters to use. That last part is notable because she went with the Star Lord team from those big cosmic runs rather than the "original" Guardians.

The first characters that are genuinely unimportant in the comics AND unknowns are the Eternals and, in some ways, Shang Chi. Because you just can't tell me that characters whose closest involvement to a major crossover event were two issues in Pak's The Incredible Hercules (and Ajak's ongoing appearance in the God Squad arc of the same) matter in any way whatsoever (Ajak is actually co-opted as a member of the, iirc, Aztec Pantheon, which I think should drive home the sheer irrelevance of the Eternals). The bad guy in that was a Skrull Eternal, by the way, and he was more important than the Eternals cast (aside from Ajak, but we've covered that). (The Eternals of Titan are, yes, related but even they only matter insofar as Thanos is one of them.)

It's remarkable to have had such a success with characters that aren't household names, sure, but the shared universe part was, realistically, a gimme. All they had to do was just get the characters into the consciousness... the centrality of the cast to the comics would do the rest (which is probably why most shared universes fail, they don't have the framework in place beforehand... the DCEU isn't a failure, it's just not as successful).

[HC Eredivisie]

Maybe, but I've never touched a Marcel comic in my life. I know it from the cartoons on Fox Kids and that was Spider-Man and the X-men, the Iron Man cartoon was also shown once or twice and I remember seeing some of the Silver Surfer cartoon. The Spider-Man cartoon had cameos of Iron Man (and War Machine), the X-men, F4 Captain America and the assorted villians. So to me Spider-Man and the X-men are A-list and the rest is B-list (and I only heard of the Guardians when they got a movie).

And he's being represented by Matt Murdock, obviously.

This would be best if they did use Kingpin. I was thinking Jennifer Walters, frankly.

And somebody being careless with gamma radiation or is that for a later movie?

I can't really see the first one working as they already know each other and Spider-Man knows it was Dr. Strange who had the plan to defeat Thanos so he'd probably listen anyway.

I dunno... Strange's plan did create the Blip and got Tony killed

It did undo the Snap, that's the most important thing. Unless Strange lied about the only possible way and just really really hated Tony.

The second option would introduce demons and hell into the MCU, I guess that's something that'll happen eventually (new Ghost Rider set up perhaps). For the third the cost could be that Spider-Man moves to a new reality where he's unknown, thereby getting him into the Sony-verse.

I don't know if the Sony-verse is the way to go, honestly. I feel like bringing in old Sony actors is a deliberate strategy on Disney's part to say to Sony, "Look we're committed to helping you benefit financially". Opening the doors to crossovers between them... seems better (although, honestly, in this film I feel like doing this will just be a way to cheaply sidestep an identity reveal AGAIN).

The Sony-verse is just two Spider-Man movies and Venom, the previous movies would be alternate realities. That's at least what I was thinking.

And he's being represented by Matt Murdock, obviously.


I can't really see the first one working as they already know each other and Spider-Man knows it was Dr. Strange who had the plan to defeat Thanos so he'd probably listen anyway.
The second option would introduce demons and hell into the MCU, I guess that's something that'll happen eventually (new Ghost Rider set up perhaps). For the third the cost could be that Spider-Man moves to a new reality where he's unknown, thereby getting him into the Sony-verse.

Is Electro going to be Electro from the previous movie or a new version with the same actor?

Before he was told he said too much and had to delete his Instagram photo, he stressed that he will not be blue.

You know that that means...green tights. And the lightning headpiece, baby!!!

That will not happen. But it seems same but different in the same way as J Jonah Jameson. I think they maybe wanted someone to tie over from Amazing Spider-man since they had someone to tie in from Raimi Spider-man.

The photo where he said he wouldn’t be blue featured three Spider-men staring at a sky with blue lightning. One even looked like it had Andrew Garfield hair.

Three Spider-Men?
I'm also constantly confusing Electro with Shocker

[Cannot think of a name]

Maybe, but I've never touched a Marcel comic in my life. I know it from the cartoons on Fox Kids and that was Spider-Man and the X-men, the Iron Man cartoon was also shown once or twice and I remember seeing some of the Silver Surfer cartoon. The Spider-Man cartoon had cameos of Iron Man (and War Machine), the X-men, F4 Captain America and the assorted villians. So to me Spider-Man and the X-men are A-list and the rest is B-list (and I only heard of the Guardians when they got a movie).

If you have Disney+, that Silver Surfer cartoon is amazing. They went full Jack Kirby.

And yes, our long winded friend has forgotten that we're talking not about comic book fans, but wider cultural penetration.

This would be best if they did use Kingpin. I was thinking Jennifer Walters, frankly.

And somebody being careless with gamma radiation or is that for a later movie?

I dunno... Strange's plan did create the Blip and got Tony killed

It did undo the Snap, that's the most important thing. Unless Strange lied about the only possible way and just really really hated Tony.

Plot twist!

I don't know if the Sony-verse is the way to go, honestly. I feel like bringing in old Sony actors is a deliberate strategy on Disney's part to say to Sony, "Look we're committed to helping you benefit financially". Opening the doors to crossovers between them... seems better (although, honestly, in this film I feel like doing this will just be a way to cheaply sidestep an identity reveal AGAIN).

The Sony-verse is just two Spider-Man movies and Venom, the previous movies would be alternate realities. That's at least what I was thinking.

Yes, more or less. But if theaters ever become a thing again we'll also get a Morbius movie and a second Venom movie and I guess they're working on a Kraven movie.

If Electro crosses over, Sony has what they have been wishing for all the way back to Raimi, the Sinister Six. Vulture, Morbius, the Shocker was last left webbed to a school bus, Scorpion was the the guy who got arrested on the ferry and asked Toombs about who Spider-man was. Electro, natch. And Venom. They could have Mysterio, too...as he is a notorious faker.

Before he was told he said too much and had to delete his Instagram photo, he stressed that he will not be blue.

You know that that means...green tights. And the lightning headpiece, baby!!!

That will not happen. But it seems same but different in the same way as J Jonah Jameson. I think they maybe wanted someone to tie over from Amazing Spider-man since they had someone to tie in from Raimi Spider-man.

The photo where he said he wouldn’t be blue featured three Spider-men staring at a sky with blue lightning. One even looked like it had Andrew Garfield hair.

Three Spider-Men?

Toby, Andrew, Tom.

It was a contextless painting, it could just be something he thought was cool. Following up, yeah, I think he just grabbed some fan art. That's way more likely than he snapped a picture of concept art and shared it. He's not new to film or even superhero movies.

I'm also constantly confusing Electro with Shocker

Honestly I like the Shocker more but with the Spidey sense making your punches kick more don't matter as much. But I came from the era of Electro in the green suit and lightning bolt headpiece. Also, he was always beaten by being dispersed in water.

[Ameriganastan]

I'm also constantly confusing Electro with Shocker

Someone say Shocker?

[Forsher]

And yes, our long winded friend has forgotten that we're talking not about comic book fans, but wider cultural penetration.

Stop fucking lying.

Woah, let's slow our roll here guys.

Sure, people hadn't heard of Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye... and would've thought of Norse Mythology with Thor so he doesn't count either... but that doesn't make these characters even B-listers.

The first characters that are genuinely unimportant in the comics AND unknowns are the Eternals and, in some ways, Shang Chi.

It's remarkable to have had such a success with characters that aren't household names, sure, but the shared universe part was, realistically, a gimme.

You've been making bullshit up about me and what I've said ever since that Spider-Woman argument and as far as we know... everything I said was 100% accurate.

[Cannot think of a name]

And yes, our long winded friend has forgotten that we're talking not about comic book fans, but wider cultural penetration.

Stop fucking lying.

Woah, let's slow our roll here guys.

Sure, people hadn't heard of Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye... and would've thought of Norse Mythology with Thor so he doesn't count either... but that doesn't make these characters even B-listers.

The first characters that are genuinely unimportant in the comics AND unknowns are the Eternals and, in some ways, Shang Chi.

It's remarkable to have had such a success with characters that aren't household names, sure, but the shared universe part was, realistically, a gimme.

You've been making bullshit up about me and what I've said ever since that Spider-Woman argument and as far as we know... everything I said was 100% accurate.

Well...back to ignore with you. You need to relax, dude.

[Forsher]

Stop fucking lying.



You've been making bullshit up about me and what I've said ever since that Spider-Woman argument and as far as we know... everything I said was 100% accurate.

Well...back to ignore with you. You need to relax, dude.

You're literally just making up shit. Expect to be called on it.

[United Hemand Insia]

Well...back to ignore with you. You need to relax, dude.

You're literally just making up shit. Expect to be called on it.

You went from telling everyone to calm down to attacking people

[Cannot think of a name]

Comic book movies is serious buzinus guiz...I guess.

Aaaaanyway. Apparently someone asked someone about the Toby Andrew Tom idea and it’s ’uncomfirmed.’

[United Hemand Insia]

Comic book movies is serious buzinus guiz...I guess.

Aaaaanyway. Apparently someone asked someone about the Toby Andrew Tom idea and it’s ’uncomfirmed.’

It's a great idea and they'll find a way to make it work.

[Cannot think of a name]

Comic book movies is serious buzinus guiz...I guess.

Aaaaanyway. Apparently someone asked someone about the Toby Andrew Tom idea and it’s ’uncomfirmed.’

It's a great idea and they'll find a way to make it work.

Ideally the best way that works is as a surprise, and it would be such a hard secret to keep. Well, unless it’s unrelated cameos.

[United Hemand Insia]

It's a great idea and they'll find a way to make it work.

Ideally the best way that works is as a surprise, and it would be such a hard secret to keep. Well, unless it’s unrelated cameos.

They could add different dimensions into it like they did with Miles.

[Cannot think of a name]

Ideally the best way that works is as a surprise, and it would be such a hard secret to keep. Well, unless it’s unrelated cameos.

They could add different dimensions into it like they did with Miles.

Well, I think that’s what’s on everyone’s wishlist. But that story is best as a surprise, but once you’re filming stunt doubles and different costumes that will leak eventually. It wouldn’t ruin it, really, if that’s the way they want to go. We’ll have to see...obviously, I guess. THat’s a meaningless statement.

I’m more team no Spider-verse only because Into the Spider-verse was so beautiful. I kind of want that to remain separate, like, good job Sony. Mostly animated Marvel kind of sucks but this was beautiful. You keep doing these and let Marvel do the live action stuff and you both still get to drive truck loads of money to the bank.

They don’t likely see it that way.

[United Hemand Insia]

They could add different dimensions into it like they did with Miles.

Well, I think that’s what’s on everyone’s wishlist. But that story is best as a surprise, but once you’re filming stunt doubles and different costumes that will leak eventually. It wouldn’t ruin it, really, if that’s the way they want to go. We’ll have to see...obviously, I guess. THat’s a meaningless statement.

I’m more team no Spider-verse only because Into the Spider-verse was so beautiful. I kind of want that to remain separate, like, good job Sony. Mostly animated Marvel kind of sucks but this was beautiful. You keep doing these and let Marvel do the live action stuff and you both still get to drive truck loads of money to the bank.

They don’t likely see it that way.

True, plus we have the sequel of ITSV in 2022 so I think they should purposely leak some license plate numbers because the director loves to use license plate easter eggs. That'd be a smart move in my opinion. I don't think that Spiderman should leave the MCU because it's such a prolific franchise. Although we do have Spiderman in Marvel for at least another SM and Avengers movie, I really hope the deal falls through again if Sony makes another offer after the agreement is up.