MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Cannot think of a name]

To be fair, Dr Strange was in a dimension without time (how can the Stone work there anyway, I guess it's not bound to its own dimension?) and he and Thanos were using the Time Stone itself and not a time machine.

I'd guess that the Time Stone is bound to the universe, and the universe is made up of a bunch of dimensions (as in the comics I believe), and yeah I'd agree that he and Thanos used the Time Stone more as an undo button than anything else.

It's worth noting that the Time Stone allows the user to completely manipulate time including its rules. So Doctor Strange can rewind an apple without manipulating cause and effect outside of it, or Thanos can bring Vision back without also rewinding the rest of time. Just like the Reality Stone lets him rewrite reality to make a blaster bubbles.

[Lord Dominator]

I'd guess that the Time Stone is bound to the universe, and the universe is made up of a bunch of dimensions (as in the comics I believe), and yeah I'd agree that he and Thanos used the Time Stone more as an undo button than anything else.

It's worth noting that the Time Stone allows the user to completely manipulate time including its rules. So Doctor Strange can rewind an apple without manipulating cause and effect outside of it, or Thanos can bring Vision back without also rewinding the rest of time. Just like the Reality Stone lets him rewrite reality to make a blaster bubbles.

Very true

[Cannot think of a name]

The best part of the last season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the decade specific remix of the opening credits.

[Gig em Aggies]

so just out of shear boredom and being stuck at home while watching Infinity War on tv. I thought what if Disney planned to have General Thaddeus Ross as someone whose a greater threat to the MCU then Thanos ever was.

[Lord Dominator]

so just out of shear boredom and being stuck at home while watching Infinity War on tv. I thought what if Disney planned to have General Thaddeus Ross as someone whose a greater threat to the MCU then Thanos ever was.

Scale is all messed up on that. Ross is usually the generic military bad guy (up to occasionally government, as seen) so far as I know, he can't be an effective villain outside of Earth as such by design.

[Cannot think of a name]

so just out of shear boredom and being stuck at home while watching Infinity War on tv. I thought what if Disney planned to have General Thaddeus Ross as someone whose a greater threat to the MCU then Thanos ever was.

Red Hulk, motherfuckers.

Though outside future character development, Ross laid the groundwork for the defeat of the Avengers and thousands of deaths. By forcing the Sekovia Accords and administrating them in the way he did he played into Zemo's plans and weakened the Avengers with a unbridgeable rift between them so that they weren't there to deal with Maw and Cull Obsedian. Whether or not a united Avengers could have beaten Thanos early on I guess is another discussion.

[HC Eredivisie]

Well, since Banner now has control while in Hulk's body I can see they'd try that experiment again and Ross volunteers and becomes Red Hulk. But that would fill a single movie, not an entire saga (Fans: We want Galactus, Kang and the X-men in the MCU!1! Disney: Here's Red Hulk, kthnxby).

Whether or not a united Avengers could have beaten Thanos early on I guess is another discussion.

I'm going with a no.

[Gig em Aggies]

Well, since Banner now has control while in Hulk's body I can see they'd try that experiment again and Ross volunteers and becomes Red Hulk. But that would fill a single movie, not an entire saga (Fans: We want Galactus, Kang and the X-men in the MCU!1! Disney: Here's Red Hulk, kthnxby).

Whether or not a united Avengers could have beaten Thanos early on I guess is another discussion.

I'm going with a no.

well doctor strange could have put Thanos's arm in a portal then closed cutting off thus preventing him from using the gauntlet which means he cant get another left handed one since he messed up Eitre. But nooo Dr. Strange had to pad the run time.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, since Banner now has control while in Hulk's body I can see they'd try that experiment again and Ross volunteers and becomes Red Hulk. But that would fill a single movie, not an entire saga (Fans: We want Galactus, Kang and the X-men in the MCU!1! Disney: Here's Red Hulk, kthnxby).

I'm going with a no.

well doctor strange could have put Thanos's arm in a portal then closed cutting off thus preventing him from using the gauntlet which means he cant get another left handed one since he messed up Eitre. But nooo Dr. Strange had to pad the run time.

...


Goddammit.

[Alvecia]

well doctor strange could have put Thanos's arm in a portal then closed cutting off thus preventing him from using the gauntlet which means he cant get another left handed one since he messed up Eitre. But nooo Dr. Strange had to pad the run time.

...


Goddammit.

As with most fiction, it's more enjoyable if you don't think about it too hard.

[Gig em Aggies]

...


Goddammit.

As with most fiction, it's more enjoyable if you don't think about it too hard.

you know what's even more terrible Scarlett Witch could have ended this once and for all by killing vision right in there own apartment or even after the Children of Thanos retreated from Scotland thus saving half of the Universe.

[HC Eredivisie]

Well, since Banner now has control while in Hulk's body I can see they'd try that experiment again and Ross volunteers and becomes Red Hulk. But that would fill a single movie, not an entire saga (Fans: We want Galactus, Kang and the X-men in the MCU!1! Disney: Here's Red Hulk, kthnxby).

I'm going with a no.

well doctor strange could have put Thanos's arm in a portal then closed cutting off thus preventing him from using the gauntlet which means he cant get another left handed one since he messed up Eitre. But nooo Dr. Strange had to pad the run time.

To quote a pirate captain: Well, yes, but actually no. The portals are stationary so you'd have to get Thanos to stick his arm through one, difficult but not impossible. But as Thor learned, you should go for the head in any case.
I was thinking of the original Avengers as Captain Marvel could beat Thanos on her own. Cap, Hawkeye and Black Widow would be useless against Thanos, Iron Man would wear out his armour eventually so that leaves Thor and Hulk. They might have a chance, or we'd see this.

As with most fiction, it's more enjoyable if you don't think about it too hard.

you know what's even more terrible Scarlett Witch could have ended this once and for all by killing vision right in there own apartment or even after the Children of Thanos retreated from Scotland thus saving half of the Universe.

Or just kill them and keep Vision alive.

[Cannot think of a name]

They ended up in the 70s on AoS complete with comic book S.H.I.E.L.D. uniforms. Which I dig. Still not sure what's going on. I don't know what started this whole Chromicon thing. But I watched this far, might as well finish it out.

[Gig em Aggies]

so I heard this from New Rockstars would it be for the best to have Dr. Doom be gradually introduced as the next big bad in the same way Thanos was early on then in another avengers movie be the the threat to the universe.

[Ameriganastan]

so I heard this from New Rockstars would it be for the best to have Dr. Doom be gradually introduced as the next big bad in the same way Thanos was early on then in another avengers movie be the the threat to the universe.

Dr. Doom? Seems a bit of a downgrade. Was hoping for something like Galactus or Kang.

[Gig em Aggies]

so I heard this from New Rockstars would it be for the best to have Dr. Doom be gradually introduced as the next big bad in the same way Thanos was early on then in another avengers movie be the the threat to the universe.

Dr. Doom? Seems a bit of a downgrade. Was hoping for something like Galactus or Kang.

well if you throw in Magneto as another big bad they could team up and make an Avengers team to fight the Avengers and it could work if done well.

[Cannot think of a name]

I think that Galactus is a half time villain. He's the midway threat that complicates matters. He doesn't really have an arc. He's hungry, he feeds. Negotiate with the herald, or bump him of to a negative dimension or some weird shit. He doesn't plan. Sure, they can give him one, but...eeeeehhhh. He's the Ultron of the next set, just sort of scrambles things up a bit.

Beyonder is the monster at the end of the book. The only way to climax harder than Endgame is have all the heroes and villains left up to that point do an all star slam in Secret Wars. After that, just burn that shit to the ground, you've done it all. Plus, that's like thirty years of movies. Who knows what we'll be into by then.

[Forsher]

Galactus is basically a giant space zombie. It'd be like trying to make a single zombie the big bad of every single series of The Walking Dead.

You can do a bit more with him for some specific situations where he'll fight with the heroes against some kind of greater scope threat (e.g. Celestials) because he isn't literally a zombie, but he's very much into the "arrive, eat a planet, leave, eat a different planet" routine and that's it.

The complexity with Galactus rests entirely in his Heralds. Some of whom are just straight up evil (Terrax) whilst others are more complex but I don't think any of them precisely share Galactus' views. At best you could probably do something like:

• wanted poster for a Herald/other kind of tease in independent film, credits scene is Galactus eats a planet
• evil type Herald as big bad for a movie... I suggest Terrax and have Galactus eat Terrax's little kingdom planet instead of the target planet because of the heroes' actions
• Silver Surfer as the villain for a movie where we learn some Surfer backstory... heroes fail to save Skrullos (or whatever the Skrull planet's called)
• Galactus Part I... the coming of the Surfer and Terrax to Earth, movie ends with the arrival of Galactus
• Galactus Part II where heroes break through to the Surfer based on earlier backstory... he fights Terrax while Galactus is defeated via whatever manner
• Secret Invasion pays off the prophecy which thereby runs into War of Kings

And Galactus Part I and Part II is basically just a disaster film so stretching out two films of material might be complicated... although if you did the whole Skrulls turn Earth into a Gladiator planet thing from Exiles... nah, while that's actually a really cool and seriously tragic story arc, it isn't nearly as much without the Exiles concept (because the tragedy is that Thunderbird is rendered comatose in defeating Galactus so stays behind but the rest of the team, including his pregnant lover TJ, have to move on and Thunderbird is unceremoniously replaced... TJ can't do it without him so gets an abortion in the next reality they visit).

In any case, I wouldn't use the Beyonder Secret Wars. I'd go with the recent one since Doctor Doom's the monster at the end of that book and, thus, pay off for every single movie he's in to that point. I'd suggest something like:

1. Doom the Rival... he already knows Sue, but she falls for Reed which isn't really a big deal, except Doom also blames Reed for the accident which is what keeps Doom out of Latveria and thus causes his mother's death
2. Doom the Villain... Doom seeks revenge on those that wronged him. The FF fail to stop Doom from taking over Latveria or reconciling Reed and Victor.
3. Doom the Manipulator... Doom's manipulating whoever's running MCU Dark Reign (if Sony plays ball, that's Norman Osborn... if they don't play ball, I think it's time to bring Justin Hammer back)
4. Doom the Uncle... let's say Valeria's born but she's got some kind of serious health concern, Reed treats her more like a science project than his child so Sue turns to Victor for help... this is obviously a secondary plot to the film which can really be about anything but I suggest it's an Illuminati film
5. Doom the "Victim"... the Avengers are forced to side with Doctor Doom against the Dark Avengers as a result of the manipulations (basically, a replacement Siege story)
6. Doom the King... Doom encourages tensions between Wakanda and Atlantis to become war (which is why the other film is set against the Illuminati... the implication is that Doom is trying to drive the heroes apart).
7. Doom the Mad Scientist... drawing from Endangered Species, a hero pushed to the brink consults with morally ambiguous to amoral science geniuses to solve some kind of problem... Doom decides he doesn't care enough
8. The Black Swan... T'Challa discovers the Incursions and the Illuminati fight Terrax the Truly Enlighted and a multiversal Thanos in three Incursion Events
9. Doom the Defender... in the second Incursions film, the Incursion Event happens in Latveria, Doom refuses Reed's request to join the Illuminati in stopping the problem
10. The Great Society Part I... the Illuminati observe the Great Society's successful defence of their reality against an Incursion event (The Great Society are "the Justice League" but with "original" characters)
11. The Great Society Part II... the Illuminati fight the Great Society and one by one fail to blow up Sun God's Earth until Namor steps forth and does it
12. Doom the Guardian... in the fifth Incursion film, Doctor Strange continues his dangerous experiments with magic, the Avengers become aware of the Illuminati's actions and turn to Doom's knowledge of magic... at the end of the film, both Stephen and Victor are presumed dead
13. The Cabal... Namor's Cabal destroy Earth after Earth, increasingly sickening Namor whilst the Avengers hunt the Illuminati, desperate Namor escapes his one time allies and shows up in Latveria but finds only a Doombot and someone he mistakes for Black Swan
14. The Illuminati... everything comes to a head... it's the final two Incursions but then the world breaks
15. However many Battleworld movies we want...
16. Doom the God... Secret Wars; which ends with Doom giving up his powers to Reed saying something like "to be a god, you need to be a monster"... Reed then uses Molecule Man and his own son to remake the multiverse

Yeah, I know that's a lot of films about the Incursions but Time Runs Out is just brilliant. The Italicised films don't actually feature Victor, I just included them to make the end arc clearer.

I also think doing all the stuff necessary for War of Kings would be fun. It would be ambiguous whether or not Black Bolt or Vulcan was the real big bad after that.

[HC Eredivisie]

That's a bit much Doom I think.

[Forsher]

That's a bit much Doom I think.

It's less than it actually appears but yes. He'd only have substantial roles in seven of those films which is commensurate with Tony (3 solos, 4 Avengers and 1 Civil War).

However, Doom has already been foretold by a music choice in Endgame so you never know.

You must also remember, it was a whole thing in the thread a while back, that I favour a Young FF so the role would feel different through time, I think.

[Infected Mushroom]

I like Dr Doom.

Let’s do him right this time please.

The FF1 and 2 movies with Chris Evans... that version of Doom felt too weak and run off the mill.

The FF reboot version of Doom as some kind of inter-dimensional nutter with god tier powers was... interesting but a bit much (but the sequence where he walks out of the lab and annihilates all the soldiers was cool)

[Cannot think of a name]

I see Dr Doom more in the Loki role, ultimately. Trying to manipulate power to his own ends that may be...beyond...his control. Whether that's actually the Beyonder or Kang or Mephisto (it's not going to be Mephisto) it doesn't matter. But instead of the redemption arc like Loki it's more of a 'make matters muuuuuuch worse' arc.

That, though, much like Loki is going to rely entirely on casting. Without Hiddlestone Loki isn't half the villain he is. They nail the casting on Doom and he, like Loki, is a well that we can keep coming to. Like, no one even really complained that Loki's deaths never took. In fact they counted on it. He's the only villain getting his own series.

(some pendant will maybe point out that Winter Soldier has a series and he was the villain in Winter Soldier, but Bucky was programed to be the villain and was, ultimately, still Bucky and no more a villain than Hawkeye who worked against the Avengers while under Loki's mind control. Which will be followed by a five paragraph essay about how Loki is an anti-hero not a villain and Hawkeye could be considered a villain so when I point out I said "Own series" that disqualifies Falcon and the Winter Soldier because it's with Falcon and so...meanwhile I'm soaking myself in kerosene and trying to light a cigar regretting having ever brought it up...say no to pendants is what I'm saying. Let them hash it out with Jeffery Albertson. Ain't no one got time for that shit.)

[Ameriganastan]

I see Dr Doom more in the Loki role, ultimately. Trying to manipulate power to his own ends that may be...beyond...his control. Whether that's actually the Beyonder or Kang or Mephisto (it's not going to be Mephisto) it doesn't matter. But instead of the redemption arc like Loki it's more of a 'make matters muuuuuuch worse' arc.

That, though, much like Loki is going to rely entirely on casting. Without Hiddlestone Loki isn't half the villain he is. They nail the casting on Doom and he, like Loki, is a well that we can keep coming to. Like, no one even really complained that Loki's deaths never took. In fact they counted on it. He's the only villain getting his own series.

(some pendant will maybe point out that Winter Soldier has a series and he was the villain in Winter Soldier, but Bucky was programed to be the villain and was, ultimately, still Bucky and no more a villain than Hawkeye who worked against the Avengers while under Loki's mind control. Which will be followed by a five paragraph essay about how Loki is an anti-hero not a villain and Hawkeye could be considered a villain so when I point out I said "Own series" that disqualifies Falcon and the Winter Soldier because it's with Falcon and so...meanwhile I'm soaking myself in kerosene and trying to light a cigar regretting having ever brought it up...say no to pendants is what I'm saying. Let them hash it out with Jeffery Albertson. Ain't no one got time for that shit.)

You know who would make a good Doom? Ralph Fiennes.

[Infected Mushroom]

I see Dr Doom more in the Loki role, ultimately. Trying to manipulate power to his own ends that may be...beyond...his control. Whether that's actually the Beyonder or Kang or Mephisto (it's not going to be Mephisto) it doesn't matter. But instead of the redemption arc like Loki it's more of a 'make matters muuuuuuch worse' arc.

That, though, much like Loki is going to rely entirely on casting. Without Hiddlestone Loki isn't half the villain he is. They nail the casting on Doom and he, like Loki, is a well that we can keep coming to. Like, no one even really complained that Loki's deaths never took. In fact they counted on it. He's the only villain getting his own series.

(some pendant will maybe point out that Winter Soldier has a series and he was the villain in Winter Soldier, but Bucky was programed to be the villain and was, ultimately, still Bucky and no more a villain than Hawkeye who worked against the Avengers while under Loki's mind control. Which will be followed by a five paragraph essay about how Loki is an anti-hero not a villain and Hawkeye could be considered a villain so when I point out I said "Own series" that disqualifies Falcon and the Winter Soldier because it's with Falcon and so...meanwhile I'm soaking myself in kerosene and trying to light a cigar regretting having ever brought it up...say no to pendants is what I'm saying. Let them hash it out with Jeffery Albertson. Ain't no one got time for that shit.)

You know who would make a good Doom? Ralph Fiennes.

Voldemort himself?

[Ameriganastan]

You know who would make a good Doom? Ralph Fiennes.

Voldemort himself?

Exactly. I'd pay good money to see him do Doom. Him or Christoph Waltz. Been too long since Waltz got to play the villain.