MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Ameriganastan]

DC does the better animated stuff, no doubt. I've seen a few Marvel cartoon movies and none of them were what I'd call good.

[New haven america]

You misunderstand, I am coopting the MCU thread for my own nefarious purposes.

And yeah, the movie was pretty ok. Course the entire DCAMU has been pretty iffy so far so being ok seems like a good point to leave it at, shame we won't be getting more TT though because they had the most consistently pleasant stories and characters out of all of them.

1. I've always thought that DC did animation better than Marvel with the same gulf in quality as the MCU and the DCEU. Though a lot of that is down to Bruce Timm. There's a sort of radius, how close to Bruce Timm the animated movie is correlates to its quality.

2. Marvel animated movies that I've seen so far have been pretty abysmal. Except I think it was Ultimate Avengers...and that's mostly down to a single moment. After The Big Fight Hulk won't calm down so Pym goes giant man and tries to palm big green who of course punches his hand open and then jumps onto his jugular and squeezes. Maybe it was because I was watching it with a crowd, but that was hilarious. But I seem to remember Planet Hulk being almost unwatchable. Or some Hulk movie.

1. Eh, it depends. DC movies before Flashpoint were consistently great and only getting better, but post-Flashpoint saw the creation of the DCAMU (A movie series based off of the shitty New 52 comics) and the departure of main directors who wanted to go work on other DC projects, as well as the hiring of Jay Oliva to be a director who...
2. … Was responsible for the creation of the shitty Marvel animated movies like Doctor Strange or the Avengers movies. Jay's a good writer and storyboard artist, but a director he is much more iffy on (He's much better at direct adaptations like TDKR, and not based on or inspired by adaptations like the New 52 comics), and he's been the main person in charge of the DCAMU for the past couple of years.

Also, Bruce Timm is great at TV, but a bit iffy with movies. (Return of the Joker=Great, The Killing Joke=Not so great)

[Cannot think of a name]

1. I've always thought that DC did animation better than Marvel with the same gulf in quality as the MCU and the DCEU. Though a lot of that is down to Bruce Timm. There's a sort of radius, how close to Bruce Timm the animated movie is correlates to its quality.

2. Marvel animated movies that I've seen so far have been pretty abysmal. Except I think it was Ultimate Avengers...and that's mostly down to a single moment. After The Big Fight Hulk won't calm down so Pym goes giant man and tries to palm big green who of course punches his hand open and then jumps onto his jugular and squeezes. Maybe it was because I was watching it with a crowd, but that was hilarious. But I seem to remember Planet Hulk being almost unwatchable. Or some Hulk movie.

1. Eh, it depends. DC movies before Flashpoint were consistently great and only getting better, but post-Flashpoint saw the creation of the DCAMU (A movie series based off of the shitty New 52 comics) and the departure of main directors who wanted to go work on other DC projects, as well as the hiring of Jay Oliva to be a director who...
2. … Was responsible for the creation of the shitty Marvel animated movies like Doctor Strange or the Avengers movies. Jay's a good writer and storyboard artist, but a director he is much more iffy on (He's much better at direct adaptations like TDKR, and not based on or inspired by adaptations like the New 52 comics), and he's been the main person in charge of the DCAMU for the past couple of years.

Also, Bruce Timm is great at TV, but a bit iffy with movies. (Return of the Joker=Great, The Killing Joke=Not so great)

This Killing Joke made me uncomfortable, not for the Joker's savagery but for the weird added sexual stuff...like it was a conservative (not politically) 19 year old in their first sexual relationship over enthusiasm or something. Like watching Batgirl and Batman get down I was going, "Did...did they think this is what I wanted? Do I need this weird pornhub/shipping thing in my Batman story? Isn't he like 20 years older than she is and friends with her dad? This is weird."

[New haven america]

1. Eh, it depends. DC movies before Flashpoint were consistently great and only getting better, but post-Flashpoint saw the creation of the DCAMU (A movie series based off of the shitty New 52 comics) and the departure of main directors who wanted to go work on other DC projects, as well as the hiring of Jay Oliva to be a director who...
2. … Was responsible for the creation of the shitty Marvel animated movies like Doctor Strange or the Avengers movies. Jay's a good writer and storyboard artist, but a director he is much more iffy on (He's much better at direct adaptations like TDKR, and not based on or inspired by adaptations like the New 52 comics), and he's been the main person in charge of the DCAMU for the past couple of years.

Also, Bruce Timm is great at TV, but a bit iffy with movies. (Return of the Joker=Great, The Killing Joke=Not so great)

This Killing Joke made me uncomfortable, not for the Joker's savagery but for the weird added sexual stuff...like it was a conservative (not politically) 19 year old in their first sexual relationship over enthusiasm or something. Like watching Batgirl and Batman get down I was going, "Did...did they think this is what I wanted? Do I need this weird pornhub/shipping thing in my Batman story? Isn't he like 20 years older than she is and friends with her dad? This is weird."

Bruce is a hardcore Batman/Batgirl shipper.

No no, I'm serious.

[Cannot think of a name]

This Killing Joke made me uncomfortable, not for the Joker's savagery but for the weird added sexual stuff...like it was a conservative (not politically) 19 year old in their first sexual relationship over enthusiasm or something. Like watching Batgirl and Batman get down I was going, "Did...did they think this is what I wanted? Do I need this weird pornhub/shipping thing in my Batman story? Isn't he like 20 years older than she is and friends with her dad? This is weird."

Bruce is a hardcore Batman/Batgirl shipper.

No no, I'm serious.

I was on board when he shipped Wonder Woman and Batman in the Justice League, but Batman/Batgirl is just...dude that's Gordon's daughter. Just...no. And the mentor relationship on top of that. Just...not cool, man. Not cool.

In general the whole shipping superheroes seems awkward. I get Storm and Black Panther getting together but also it feels like a group of white friends getting the only two black people they know together. Like, "we have two characters from Africa...they should hook up!"

I guess they turned Cyclops/Jean Grey/Wolverine into a throuple. I guess that was only a matter of time. Logan's sexuality is probably a splatter pattern at this point anyway.

Natasha and Bruce never made sense, but I did super appreciate that they didn't go the easy route and ship her and Clint, instead making it a deep friendship. We should have more movies that treat friendships as valuable as romantic relationships especially between men and women without the "When Harry Met Sally" bullshit.

[Lord Dominator]

I don't mind superhero shipping in principle, though things like Batman/Batgirl are pretty messed up

[Cannot think of a name]

Speaking of shipped superheroes, a new WandaVision trailer snuck out under the radar. Well, teaser. Also no release date, fueling my guess that they're going to release even earlier than the already pushed up date just to put some content on Disney+. All my Star Wars friends have already gone through Clone Wars.

[Vassenor]

Speaking of shipped superheroes, a new WandaVision trailer snuck out under the radar. Well, teaser. Also no release date, fueling my guess that they're going to release even earlier than the already pushed up date just to put some content on Disney+. All my Star Wars friends have already gone through Clone Wars.

>5 Mar 2020

>Non profit, fan-made trailer. No copyright infringement intended.

Uh-huh.

[Cannot think of a name]

Speaking of shipped superheroes, a new WandaVision trailer snuck out under the radar. Well, teaser. Also no release date, fueling my guess that they're going to release even earlier than the already pushed up date just to put some content on Disney+. All my Star Wars friends have already gone through Clone Wars.

>5 Mar 2020

>Non profit, fan-made trailer. No copyright infringement intended.

Uh-huh.

READING DESCRIPTIONS IS FOR CLYDES!




...dammit. I'm tired? Uh...something.

That does explain why I didn't hear about the trailer from my friend.

Whatever.

You win this round...

[HC Eredivisie]

The bit at 0:11 is taken from Godzilla, which I wouldn't mind as a crossover.

[Cannot think of a name]

The bit at 0:11 is taken from Godzilla, which I wouldn't mind as a crossover.

Then we could get a Godzilla vs American Kaiju.

[HC Eredivisie]

The bit at 0:11 is taken from Godzilla, which I wouldn't mind as a crossover.

Then we could get a Godzilla vs American Kaiju.

Can we also have giant Mecha to fight it?

Yes, we can.

[Cannot think of a name]

Then we could get a Godzilla vs American Kaiju.

Can we also have giant Mecha to fight it?

Yes, we can.

Best MCU movie ever?

Best MCU movie ever.

[Forsher]

That American Kaiju stuff is, indeed, hilarious.

[Cannot think of a name]

So I found out why New Mutants keeps getting new release dates instead of, you know, giving up and putting it on Disney+.

Turns out that before Fox was bought it had agreements with HBO for streaming rights and the sale created the obligation to have a theatrical release for all movies finished and in post production at the time of the sale.

So Disney is obligated to put it in theaters provided theaters are still a thing when this is all over.

Thus the new release date of some time in August.

[Cannot think of a name]

Oh shit, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is still a thing. I mean, I knew they had one last season but I kind of forgot about it.

I also forgot what the fuck happened last season. Apparently some Legends of Tomorrow shit where they have to chase time travelers through time making it even more incompatible with the wider MCU and it's rules of time travel.

[Alvecia]

Oh shit, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is still a thing. I mean, I knew they had one last season but I kind of forgot about it.

I also forgot what the fuck happened last season. Apparently some Legends of Tomorrow shit where they have to chase time travelers through time making it even more incompatible with the wider MCU and it's rules of time travel.

The ways I see it, there are two ways to do time travel in a story. Either make it so incredibly restrictive such that it doesn't create massive plot holes
such as in

Star Wars Rebels

or make it so that canon is basically irrelevant, go wild, and have fun with it, like Doctor Who.

It's why I'm not keen on it in the MCU, because it can be neither of those things. Maybe due in part to the Marvel Comic multiverse being already so prevalent.

[Cannot think of a name]

Oh shit, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is still a thing. I mean, I knew they had one last season but I kind of forgot about it.

I also forgot what the fuck happened last season. Apparently some Legends of Tomorrow shit where they have to chase time travelers through time making it even more incompatible with the wider MCU and it's rules of time travel.

The ways I see it, there are two ways to do time travel in a story. Either make it so incredibly restrictive such that it doesn't create massive plot holes
such as in

Star Wars Rebels

or make it so that canon is basically irrelevant, go wild, and have fun with it, like Doctor Who.

It's why I'm not keen on it in the MCU, because it can be neither of those things. Maybe due in part to the Marvel Comic multiverse being already so prevalent.

There are three different angles for time travel now in the MCU by having the Marvel Entertainment properties loosely tied in. Probably why they were so keen to put them under Fiege.

The Runaways had a team member come back from the future to try and kill. I can't remember how they dealt with the Dreaded Paradox issue in time travel.

AoS did preventive time travel in season 5 and now Legends of Tomorrow style time travel in season 7.

Though in AoS's case they're covering in this season a bit in that they're really just guessing how time travel works in regards to ramifications. They guessed that it's the time stream theory, little changes won't matter. Big ones will. But they acknowledge the multiverse possibility.

[Alvecia]

The ways I see it, there are two ways to do time travel in a story. Either make it so incredibly restrictive such that it doesn't create massive plot holes
such as in

Star Wars Rebels

or make it so that canon is basically irrelevant, go wild, and have fun with it, like Doctor Who.

It's why I'm not keen on it in the MCU, because it can be neither of those things. Maybe due in part to the Marvel Comic multiverse being already so prevalent.

There are three different angles for time travel now in the MCU by having the Marvel Entertainment properties loosely tied in. Probably why they were so keen to put them under Fiege.

The Runaways had a team member come back from the future to try and kill. I can't remember how they dealt with the Dreaded Paradox issue in time travel.

AoS did preventive time travel in season 5 and now Legends of Tomorrow style time travel in season 7.

Though in AoS's case they're covering in this season a bit in that they're really just guessing how time travel works in regards to ramifications. They guessed that it's the time stream theory, little changes won't matter. Big ones will. But they acknowledge the multiverse possibility.

I've been meaning to watch the Runaways actually. I've heard some good things. Just don't happen to have Hulu unfortunately.
I'm sure I'll get around to it one way or another.

[Cannot think of a name]

There are three different angles for time travel now in the MCU by having the Marvel Entertainment properties loosely tied in. Probably why they were so keen to put them under Fiege.

The Runaways had a team member come back from the future to try and kill. I can't remember how they dealt with the Dreaded Paradox issue in time travel.

AoS did preventive time travel in season 5 and now Legends of Tomorrow style time travel in season 7.

Though in AoS's case they're covering in this season a bit in that they're really just guessing how time travel works in regards to ramifications. They guessed that it's the time stream theory, little changes won't matter. Big ones will. But they acknowledge the multiverse possibility.

I've been meaning to watch the Runaways actually. I've heard some good things. Just don't happen to have Hulu unfortunately.
I'm sure I'll get around to it one way or another.

I really liked The Runaways and Cloak & Dagger. I dare say that Cloak & Dagger was the best Marvel show outside of Netflix. The last season (3?) of The Runaways had a crossover with Cloak & Dagger and that was pretty cool. Cloak & Dagger only got two seasons, but the second one was awesome.

[HC Eredivisie]

The ways I see it, there are two ways to do time travel in a story. Either make it so incredibly restrictive such that it doesn't create massive plot holes
such as in

Star Wars Rebels

or make it so that canon is basically irrelevant, go wild, and have fun with it, like Doctor Who.

It's why I'm not keen on it in the MCU, because it can be neither of those things. Maybe due in part to the Marvel Comic multiverse being already so prevalent.

There are three different angles for time travel now in the MCU by having the Marvel Entertainment properties loosely tied in. Probably why they were so keen to put them under Fiege.

The Runaways had a team member come back from the future to try and kill. I can't remember how they dealt with the Dreaded Paradox issue in time travel.

AoS did preventive time travel in season 5 and now Legends of Tomorrow style time travel in season 7.

Though in AoS's case they're covering in this season a bit in that they're really just guessing how time travel works in regards to ramifications. They guessed that it's the time stream theory, little changes won't matter. Big ones will. But they acknowledge the multiverse possibility.

It's a multiverse already though, isn't it?
Wait, maybe the AoS timeline is one where Coulson was brought back and the movie-timeline is one where he wasn't? After all, there's a Loki running around with a Space Stone at the time where Coulson was killed due to Endgame.

[Cannot think of a name]

There are three different angles for time travel now in the MCU by having the Marvel Entertainment properties loosely tied in. Probably why they were so keen to put them under Fiege.

The Runaways had a team member come back from the future to try and kill. I can't remember how they dealt with the Dreaded Paradox issue in time travel.

AoS did preventive time travel in season 5 and now Legends of Tomorrow style time travel in season 7.

Though in AoS's case they're covering in this season a bit in that they're really just guessing how time travel works in regards to ramifications. They guessed that it's the time stream theory, little changes won't matter. Big ones will. But they acknowledge the multiverse possibility.

It's a multiverse already though, isn't it?
Wait, maybe the AoS timeline is one where Coulson was brought back and the movie-timeline is one where he wasn't? After all, there's a Loki running around with a Space Stone at the time where Coulson was killed due to Endgame.

Dude, if Loki shows up at the end of AoS, all the confetti.

[Forsher]

Endgame doesn't define time travel rules at all.

Reason #1

We already know that it is possible to change the future in the MCU... we have seen it several times in Doctor Strange and once in Infinity War.

Conclusion: how time travel is accomplished matters.

Reason #2

Brulk's speech is actually pretty meaningless. It doesn't rule out any important paradoxes at all since it's merely a description of what experiencing time linearly means.

Imagine Steve travels back to 1952, say. Prior to travelling back, Steve has experienced a certain present that causes him to travel back in time. Anything Steve now does, is a new future that is concurrent with his old past/present. However, from his subjective point of view nothing has changed... his old past/present is static and is unaffected by the present.

Conclusion: how Brulk's statement can be true is what matters.

Reason #3

Back to the Future actually obeys that rule. Marty never remembers the new futures he creates but instead his old past. (Contrast Looper where Old Joe does get new memories based on changes... it's worth noting Looper is a film that rejected the notion of explaining its rules explicitly.)

Conclusion: they name dropped several time travel movies but that's all it is... a series of meaningless shout outs/

Reason #4

Back to the Future also disobeys that rule with the whole "fading out of existence" thing. As this is iconic and echoes something Scott says, we can assume this is what Endgame's rules are trying to exclude.

Conclusion: we must find something which doesn't allow this.

Reason #5

It's a time GPS. Clearly it;s about getting to specific places.

Hence, the actually important line is:

Either it's all a joke, or none of it is.

[HC Eredivisie]

Change the future in the MCU... we have seen it several times in Doctor Strange and once in Infinity War.

To be fair, Dr Strange was in a dimension without time (how can the Stone work there anyway, I guess it's not bound to its own dimension?) and he and Thanos were using the Time Stone itself and not a time machine.

[Lord Dominator]

Change the future in the MCU... we have seen it several times in Doctor Strange and once in Infinity War.

To be fair, Dr Strange was in a dimension without time (how can the Stone work there anyway, I guess it's not bound to its own dimension?) and he and Thanos were using the Time Stone itself and not a time machine.

I'd guess that the Time Stone is bound to the universe, and the universe is made up of a bunch of dimensions (as in the comics I believe), and yeah I'd agree that he and Thanos used the Time Stone more as an undo button than anything else.