MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Stanmenistan]

*Sigh*

Talos maybe a D-Lister, but like I said, the Skrulls can still be led by a woman and be goodies. Just look at Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1.

Hell, they could have turned Veranke into a decomposite character. One could be Veranke, the leader of the heroic Skrulls. The other could be Queen *Something*, the religious fanatic and leader of the Evil Skrulls who plan to conquer Earth.

They didn't have to use Talos or Veranke at all. They could have invented a new Skrull queen who is a heroine instead.


Just questioning if Captain Marvel can truly be called a "Female Empowerment Superhero film", if it replaces a traditionally female role with a male one whilst also making said role more heroic. That kind of demonizes Female leaders and the concept of female leadership, doesn't it? It really sends a bad message to women and girls that the Skrulls stop being evil as soon as they are led by a man instead of a woman.

I think you're reading too much into it. It doesn't need to be all female, all the time. And not being so doesn't make it "not feminist" or "not empowering".

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but analysing and questioning media messages is an important part of film and media analysis.

Sure, a feminist film doesn't need to be all female, all the time, but it kind of dings the feminist/female empowerment credits of the Captain Marvel movie that they made a powerful female leader character from the comics who was a villain into a powerful leader character who is a male hero in the movie. Didn't Frozen and Wicked make tons of money turning classic villainesses into powerful (anti)heroines? Did they not want to make money? WTH was wrong with Sarah Halley Finn when casting the movie?

[Alvecia]

I think you're reading too much into it. It doesn't need to be all female, all the time. And not being so doesn't make it "not feminist" or "not empowering".

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but analysing and questioning media messages is an important part of film and media analysis.

Sure, a feminist film doesn't need to be all female, all the time, but it kind of dings the feminist/female empowerment credits of the Captain Marvel movie that they made a powerful female leader character from the comics who was a villain into a powerful leader character who is a male hero in the movie. Didn't Frozen and Wicked make tons of money turning classic villainesses into powerful (anti)heroines? Did they not want to make money? WTH was wrong with Sarah Halley Finn when casting the movie?

I don't think it does really. If they thought that Talos fit better into the story, then deciding to go with a different female character regardless would have devalued both the movie and their message.

[Stanmenistan]

Anyway, who could be the bad guy for the Captain Marvel Sequel? It should probably be someone of equal or greater power, or someone who could neutralize or counter her high-level abilities in some way.

One I'd suggest is Michael Korvac. With his vast energy based powers, Inspired by the EMH incarnation, this Korvac was deliberately experimented on by the Kree and trained by them, most likely consensually. His training would have been the total opposite of Carol's, though; taught to embrace rage, aggression and emotion not to suppress it. When he destroyed an uninhabited planet, the Kree knew Korvac would be more than a match for Vers.

Other possibilities include: The Sentry (another high-powered Marvel hero, with a vast array of sub-powers due to his Molecular Manipulation ability), Nitro (Mar-Vell's killer in the comics), Bombu (a more obscure alien monster, with a face like a witch doctor's mask; possesses vast reality warping powers), Hyperion (Marvel's Superman expy; leader of Squadron Supreme/Sinister Squadron, sometimes a real baddie, sometimes brainwashed, most of the time just a jerkass antihero; another character with a power level equal to Danvers), Rogue and/or Mystique (for obvious reasons; once Rogue absorbs (some of) Danvers' powers, that should put her on a more balanced playing field with the other Marvel Heroes and give her an nemesis), Count Nefaria (a classic Avengers foe with the Superman Powerset), or Gladiator from the Shi'ar Imperial Guard (they are less involved with the wider cosmos and the Kree-Skrull rivalry).

Maybe have Veranke as the leader of another group of Skrulls who believe Talos and his allies to be heretics, who show up in the post-credits scene. They will be more than happy to help the Kree rid the universe of these blasphemers. Maybe make them a different colour like white with red eyes, or give them a unique colour pattern, like yellow stripes on green skin. Then a new take on Secret Invasion, where the Kree and Veranke's Skrulls seek to destroy Talos' kind and SHIELD, with assistance from the new government organisation HAMMER.

[Cannot think of a name]

I didn't read enough space Marvel or Captain Marvel to have a good idea of who it should be. They will probably skip the Thor II dilemma of bothering t come back to Earth and go straight to Thor III and stay in space. With I guess Nick Fury making space ships. Or whatever.

Maybe Gunn won't actually use Adam Warlock and he can be the whatever. He keeps being coy about that for some reason.

I'm not on (and am exhausted by) the Captain Marvel hate train, but she's not a character I have a lot of attachment to. When her movie comes out I'll watch it but I don't have opinions about where it should go or what I want to see (other than her and Rogue).

I enjoyed the first movie just fine. I'm sure I'll enjoy the next one unless they give the guy from Iron Fist/Inhumans another shot or something. As far as I'm concerned that's their only real swing and a miss. Even Thor II has its moments.

[Forsher]

I'm not on (and am exhausted by) the Captain Marvel hate train, but she's not a character I have a lot of attachment to. When her movie comes out I'll watch it but I don't have opinions about where it should go or what I want to see (other than her and Rogue).

Yes, exactly this. Power to people who like Carol, but it's just not me.

In the context of the MCU, Rogue has to be some time away because I also agree with the notion that they'll probably be keeping Carol in space. The only way I can see them not doing this is to follow up on the Rambeaus, but I think they're appearing in something else (WandaVision!?) so why's that needed?

It's a shame they fucked the Inhumans up the way they did because the mutual Kree manipulations would have made the Royal Family a good antagonist for Carol. As in, Carol's told they're a Kree weapon (kind of true) and the Royal Family are told she's a Kree weapon (kind of true). This would also allow for Yon Rogg to come back a bit because it's his kind of shtick (why keep people alive if they're not going to come back, right?). We can stick some Ronan (presumably a relative since he's dead but whatevs) in there as well and thus wrap the first Captain Marvel film up nicely.

But I wonder if the best way to do both of these storylines is Vulcan. Gets Rogue into space in a way that ties the Shiar and Kree together (getting X-Men into space in general isn't a problem at all, of course, and its absence is one of the big issues with Fox-Men imo). Add in the Secret Invasion backstory that underpinned the Royal Family's adventures in space and we've got some nice Kree/Skrull context.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go the other way with Carol, though. Instead of pulling the various Superman expies (Hyperion, Sentry, Gladiator etc.) out to resolve the Superman problem, I think they will use Veranke and do a "the enemy you can't punch" angle. Whether they do it the way Stanmenistan suggests or something more thematically interesting... i.e. seeing her dad kill those Kree at the end of Captain Marvel is a supervillain origin story... like I indicated before, I don't know. My concern is that I think Secret Invasion would work best if it was at least three films... one where you see it come to fruit, one where it looks like it might have happened (i.e. some characters have been replaced) and one which teases it (i.e. the radical Skrull religious cult or even just name dropping Veranke).

Obviously it's hard for me, a non-Carol Danvers fan, to suggest reasonable Carol based storylines to adapt (pls, no Civil War II) other than Rogue so these suggestions are skewed to what makes sense with how I see Captain Marvel as positioning the Kree and Skrull for the MCU.

Maybe Gunn won't actually use Adam Warlock and he can be the whatever. He keeps being coy about that for some reason.

I was thinking about J'Son the other day. Notice the word "Son". It even makes sense thematically for Peter Quill's arc through the MCU. Ramming Adam Warlock and Spartax into one film seems weird though, even if the Sovereign decided to use the Blip to try and invade Spartax.

Er, for clarity, I'm following the school of thought that "being coy" means we can think of Adam Warlock adjacent or absent concepts for Vol. 3.

[Stanmenistan]

Thinking about it, if they really wanted to, Manoo and his species (the Gjo/Vaag) would make good Skrull Substitutes if they actually wanted a villainous race of Shape-shifters for a secret invasion adaptation. Veranke could be their leader, who hates the MCU Skrulls as she believes they stole their "sacred shapeshifting powers".

[Cannot think of a name]

Wait wait wait wait...I think we're missing the obvious here.

So...Disney has the Fantastic Four, right? The Fantastic Four have a long history with the Skrull, in like the second issue or something like that Reed Richards hypnotized some Skrulls into thinking they were cows.

And they remained cows. And fucked other cows and had baby Skrull cows.

That's another thing that's completely real and totally bonkers.

BUT...okay, what does Marvel Studios love to do with their new heroes? That's right..make them fight someone who is basically the hero in a slightly different suit. Iron Monger, Yellowjacket, Red Skull, Abomination, Killmonger...you get the idea.

So what better Marvel Studios way to introduce the Fantastic Four than to have them fight...the Super Skrull!

You're scoffing, someone is pitching that and they're considering it. I don't know that for sure but I know that..

[Ameriganastan]

Wait wait wait wait...I think we're missing the obvious here.

So...Disney has the Fantastic Four, right? The Fantastic Four have a long history with the Skrull, in like the second issue or something like that Reed Richards hypnotized some Skrulls into thinking they were cows.

And they remained cows. And fucked other cows and had baby Skrull cows.

That's another thing that's completely real and totally bonkers.

BUT...okay, what does Marvel Studios love to do with their new heroes? That's right..make them fight someone who is basically the hero in a slightly different suit. Iron Monger, Yellowjacket, Red Skull, Abomination, Killmonger...you get the idea.

So what better Marvel Studios way to introduce the Fantastic Four than to have them fight...the Super Skrull!

You're scoffing, someone is pitching that and they're considering it. I don't know that for sure but I know that..

I feel like Captain Marvel is gonna run into Super Skrull first.

[Forsher]

I feel like Captain Marvel is gonna run into Super Skrull first.

I guess it's possible but the Super Skrull came about specifically because of the Fantastic Four.

I feel like the Power Skrull would be a more natural fit for Captain Marvel, unless Carol works with the Skrulls on the Super Skrull plan.

[HC Eredivisie]

I feel like Captain Marvel is gonna run into Super Skrull first.

I guess it's possible but the Super Skrull came about specifically because of the Fantastic Four.

I feel like the Power Skrull would be a more natural fit for Captain Marvel, unless Carol works with the Skrulls on the Super Skrull plan.

And then it backfires on some astronauts from Earth somehow.

[Gig em Aggies]

I guess it's possible but the Super Skrull came about specifically because of the Fantastic Four.

I feel like the Power Skrull would be a more natural fit for Captain Marvel, unless Carol works with the Skrulls on the Super Skrull plan.

And then it backfires on some astronauts from Earth somehow.

or it backfires and it leads to the creation of Captain Nova

[HC Eredivisie]

And then it backfires on some astronauts from Earth somehow.

or it backfires and it leads to the creation of Captain Nova

Well, that's also Disney I guess.

[Gig em Aggies]

or it backfires and it leads to the creation of Captain Nova

Well, that's also Disney I guess.

no I meant the MCU captain Nova you know from the Nova Corps.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, that's also Disney I guess.

no I meant the MCU captain Nova you know from the Nova Corps.

We just call him Nova. Or Richard Ryder. Because it's an Earthling with a Nova Corps suit. Innnnnn Sssssppppaaaaacccceee they're the Nova Corps so the captains in the Nova Corps just have names.

[HC Eredivisie]

Well, that's also Disney I guess.

no I meant the MCU captain Nova you know from the Nova Corps.

I know, I was joking.
but the Nova Corps has been destroyed.

[Gig em Aggies]

no I meant the MCU captain Nova you know from the Nova Corps.

I know, I was joking.
but the Nova Corps has been destroyed.

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

[Cannot think of a name]

I know, I was joking.
but the Nova Corps has been destroyed.

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

Actually the whole Nova Corps being destroyed leads to Nova pretty well. A member of the Corps could have fled the destruction by Thanos, making it to Earth as they die they pass their suit on to Richard Ryder giving him Nova powers and making him Nova. Mmmmmmabye in the next Spider-man movie? Or maybe Spider-man guests in his movie a la Iron Man in Homecoming? We know that Spider-man will guest in one more MCU movie before the Sony deal ends again.

[New haven america]

Justice League Apokolips War was pretty ok for a DCAMU movie, probably because Jay wasn't allowed to direct it.

[Forsher]

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

Actually the whole Nova Corps being destroyed leads to Nova pretty well. A member of the Corps could have fled the destruction by Thanos, making it to Earth as they die they pass their suit on to Richard Ryder giving him Nova powers and making him Nova. Mmmmmmabye in the next Spider-man movie? Or maybe Spider-man guests in his movie a la Iron Man in Homecoming? We know that Spider-man will guest in one more MCU movie before the Sony deal ends again.

There's a huge problem with this pitch... the MCU Nova Corps is nothing like the comics Nova Corps.

There would have to be another movie in between. And it seems so obvious what that should be. People want to see the Fall of Xandar. Just make that into a Richard Rider origin movie. Start from his recruitment by a reformed and newly comics like Nova Corps (who we must recall were also wiped out in GOTG Vol. 1)... presumably they use the Power Stone to create the Nova Force... and end with Richard as the last Nova. I also suggest having Jesse Alexander be one of Richard's fellow recruits so we can set up Sam as well.

From the perspective of the standard filmgoer... the movie's really tense, because while they know Xandar falls, they don't know what happens to any of the characters they're watching. Of course, a comics audience knows what's going to happen (Richard is the last Nova, Jesse gets captured and his helmet ends up on Earth again) but that's true of a lot of MCU storylines.

It seems to tick all the boxes, right? It gives the MCU another crack at the war film genre so it should feel tonally distinct and grittier. It brings the popular Enlightened!Thanos back. Could help fill in some of the remaining timeline problems (when did Thanos attack Nidavellir? When did Thanos say he'd do it himself and why?) or not (depends how the film's made). Can even provide some canon answers to word of God claims like why Thanos decided to attack when he did (fans: because Odin died. Russos: because Nebula attacked).

The only real problem I can see is that the casual viewer might wonder what the point of the film is. If there isn't some kind of "trick answer" to this question, I think most people will conclude the main character (Richard) lives, which eliminates the narrative tension everyone says prequels (well, technically, this is a midquel) need to work. The best idea I have here is Ronan, jr (who, in context, is actually just a comics authentic Ronan).

For example, have the trailers feature a silhouette of "Ronan" with the destruction of Xandar happening around, claiming his father's hammer (as far as I can tell it survived) or something. Maybe tie it in with Enlightened!Thanos, e.g. "I promised your father I would destroy Xandar, will you keep his promise?" and that way the film thus superficially becomes about this annoying line from the Captain Marvel film. This way also gives us the whole MCU dad angle for the new Ronan.

Explanation of that Super Long Video about Prequels plus why I think we'd be fine with this movie

• Death of the Author stuff... basically by making a prequel, the creator is able to make Word of God interpretations canon by putting them in the text. The problem is that people have a relationship with the originally ambiguous text.
  
  • In this case, the event being explained is the Fall of Xandar which, currently, we're able to understand both through the Mad Titan paradigm and the Enlightened!Thanos "trick" IW used. But by making the film we're probably going to see either the complete destruction or merely the halving of Xandar. I personally think Thanos totalled Xandar and if we frame this hypothetical film through that "trick" of Ronan jr. I think everyone would be happy... it's just Enlightened!Thanos keeping promises like he says he does, right?
• Interpretations transform into expectations about the film. Meeting expectations = fan service = bad. Not meeting expectations = disappointment = bad.
  
  • At around 15/16 minutes there's an extended discussion about Darth Vader, which is probably important when it comes to how people think about Thanos.
• There tends to be retroactive re-evaluation of known facts rather than additional growth. This idea is sort of what the video treats as the conclusion of the above, but I see it as more saying "in a sequel, if a character does something unexpected, it's probably a sign of character growth but in a prequel, it means you didn't understand the character or were wrong about their journey to the point you first met them".
  
  • I mean, we've kind of already had this problem with Thanos with everyone who sees Endgame!Thanos as a betrayal of Enlightened!Thanos, so maybe it wouldn't matter so much here given Thanos and the Children of Thanos would be pretty much the only "old" characters.
• Dependency on the existing story is required but the story must also stand on its own. And this is the context the video gives us for "narrative tension" at around 22 minutes... but this particular video isn't really sold on this as the problem of prequels.
  
  • Honestly, I don't think a cinematic universe is going to have this problem. Especially since we're (hypothetically) telling such a contained event. And I've discussed the narrative tension bit... this is quite like Rogue One, right? (Mentioned around 25m30s)
• Mythologisation. Often prequels revolve around events or concepts that the original mythologised and, therefore, invited the imagination of the reader. Thus prequels demystify and there's no wonder or awe (like the Jurassic Park sequels vs original).
  
  • Not a problem here. We'd be working from "when he decimated Xandar". Like, that's it. No mythologisation at all to worry about.

[Cannot think of a name]

Actually the whole Nova Corps being destroyed leads to Nova pretty well. A member of the Corps could have fled the destruction by Thanos, making it to Earth as they die they pass their suit on to Richard Ryder giving him Nova powers and making him Nova. Mmmmmmabye in the next Spider-man movie? Or maybe Spider-man guests in his movie a la Iron Man in Homecoming? We know that Spider-man will guest in one more MCU movie before the Sony deal ends again.

There's a huge problem with this pitch... the MCU Nova Corps is nothing like the comics Nova Corps.

It's staggering how little that matters.

There would have to be another movie in between. And it seems so obvious what that should be. People want to see the Fall of Xandar.

5 minute cold open.

Just make that into a Richard Rider origin movie. Start from his recruitment by a reformed and newly comics like Nova Corps (who we must recall were also wiped out in GOTG Vol. 1)... presumably they use the Power Stone to create the Nova Force... and end with Richard as the last Nova. I also suggest having Jesse Alexander be one of Richard's fellow recruits so we can set up Sam as well.

No real need to do that when they have the set up for the actual origin story or to have another Peter Quill Earthman in space fish out of water.

From the perspective of the standard filmgoer... the movie's really tense, because while they know Xandar falls, they don't know what happens to any of the characters they're watching. Of course, a comics audience knows what's going to happen (Richard is the last Nova, Jesse gets captured and his helmet ends up on Earth again) but that's true of a lot of MCU storylines.

It seems to tick all the boxes, right? It gives the MCU another crack at the war film genre so it should feel tonally distinct and grittier. It brings the popular Enlightened!Thanos back. Could help fill in some of the remaining timeline problems (when did Thanos attack Nidavellir? When did Thanos say he'd do it himself and why?) or not (depends how the film's made). Can even provide some canon answers to word of God claims like why Thanos decided to attack when he did (fans: because Odin died. Russos: because Nebula attacked).

At some point they need to move on from the Infinity Saga. Having Nova be a consequence of the Saga, Cheers. Rewinding to the actual Infinity Saga, Jeers.

The only real problem I can see is that the casual viewer might wonder what the point of the film is. If there isn't some kind of "trick answer" to this question, I think most people will conclude the main character (Richard) lives, which eliminates the narrative tension everyone says prequels (well, technically, this is a midquel) need to work. The best idea I have here is Ronan, jr (who, in context, is actually just a comics authentic Ronan).

For example, have the trailers feature a silhouette of "Ronan" with the destruction of Xandar happening around, claiming his father's hammer (as far as I can tell it survived) or something. Maybe tie it in with Enlightened!Thanos, e.g. "I promised your father I would destroy Xandar, will you keep his promise?" and that way the film thus superficially becomes about this annoying line from the Captain Marvel film. This way also gives us the whole MCU dad angle for the new Ronan.

Explanation of that Super Long Video about Prequels plus why I think we'd be fine with this movie

• Death of the Author stuff... basically by making a prequel, the creator is able to make Word of God interpretations canon by putting them in the text. The problem is that people have a relationship with the originally ambiguous text.
  
  • In this case, the event being explained is the Fall of Xandar which, currently, we're able to understand both through the Mad Titan paradigm and the Enlightened!Thanos "trick" IW used. But by making the film we're probably going to see either the complete destruction or merely the halving of Xandar. I personally think Thanos totalled Xandar and if we frame this hypothetical film through that "trick" of Ronan jr. I think everyone would be happy... it's just Enlightened!Thanos keeping promises like he says he does, right?
• Interpretations transform into expectations about the film. Meeting expectations = fan service = bad. Not meeting expectations = disappointment = bad.
  
  • At around 15/16 minutes there's an extended discussion about Darth Vader, which is probably important when it comes to how people think about Thanos.
• There tends to be retroactive re-evaluation of known facts rather than additional growth. This idea is sort of what the video treats as the conclusion of the above, but I see it as more saying "in a sequel, if a character does something unexpected, it's probably a sign of character growth but in a prequel, it means you didn't understand the character or were wrong about their journey to the point you first met them".
  
  • I mean, we've kind of already had this problem with Thanos with everyone who sees Endgame!Thanos as a betrayal of Enlightened!Thanos, so maybe it wouldn't matter so much here given Thanos and the Children of Thanos would be pretty much the only "old" characters.
• Dependency on the existing story is required but the story must also stand on its own. And this is the context the video gives us for "narrative tension" at around 22 minutes... but this particular video isn't really sold on this as the problem of prequels.
  
  • Honestly, I don't think a cinematic universe is going to have this problem. Especially since we're (hypothetically) telling such a contained event. And I've discussed the narrative tension bit... this is quite like Rogue One, right? (Mentioned around 25m30s)
• Mythologisation. Often prequels revolve around events or concepts that the original mythologised and, therefore, invited the imagination of the reader. Thus prequels demystify and there's no wonder or awe (like the Jurassic Park sequels vs original).
  
  • Not a problem here. We'd be working from "when he decimated Xandar". Like, that's it. No mythologisation at all to worry about.

Look at all that work to make a convoluted thing kinda work in a super confusing way when you can just use the origins of the character, a dying Nova soldier gives New Yorker Richard Rider his suit but Greatest American Hero style not the instructions and he becomes a superhero. No convoluted machinations, no having to quote Roland fukcing Barthes to justify your weird decision, no going back to the Infinity Saga yet again, not another wise cracking earthling in space, just a new hero on Earth with space powers perfectly ready to fold in to whatever over arching villain they settle on.

Sometimes the easiest road is the easiest because it's the best road.

[Forsher]

It's staggering how little that matters.

Fantastic argument.

There would have to be another movie in between. And it seems so obvious what that should be. People want to see the Fall of Xandar.

5 minute cold open.

Which is completely pointless if you believe your own statement.

No real need to do that when they have the set up for the actual origin story or to have another Peter Quill Earthman in space fish out of water.

The most interesting thing about Richard Rider is when he's the last and only Nova... or, you know, pretty much exactly where the MCU is already. No Xandar. Therefore, no Nova Corps... even if they rebuilt and retooled. They don't even have fucking helmets in the MCU (except that one guy with a generic bad guy helmet) but you want... ", a dying Nova soldier gives New Yorker Richard Rider his suit."

Oh, and the MCU already killed off the guy that would be giving him his suit. So that's yet another thing that has to change. Why wouldn't you just start over with "Hey, this is the Nova Corps now... and they've gone recruiting"?

And can we just pause and ruminate on how GOTG gets absolutely 0 recognition for being one of the least comics authentic MCU films? Like it's right up there with the original X-Men film in terms of not treating the source material as something that can be taken straight to screen.

At some point they need to move on from the Infinity Saga. Having Nova be a consequence of the Saga, Cheers. Rewinding to the actual Infinity Saga, Jeers.

The Infinity Saga is fucking bullshit. Doesn't exist. Never has. Never will. Marketing lies.

The MCU, so far, consists of two running threads. One, is Iron Man. There's a reason why FFH is the end of Phase Three instead of the start of Phase Four... it's because it's the last Iron Man film. Yeah, sure, Tony's dead but his fingers are all over that film. From the villain to the macguffin to the hero's arc to the background context. It's honestly the most Iron Man film since the original Iron Man.

The second running thread is the Infinity Stones which appear in, iirc, half the films +/- 1. For the most part, they've got no particular plot connection between appearances except, of course, the Tesseract which is all over the MCU. They're retroactively bundled into one film by an arse pull motivation given to what was a generic "big bad sitting in his throne" dude from, hey, GOTG. And yes I know Thanos has always been about the Stones, even in the MCU, but what I'm saying is that Thanos and the Stones aren't usually relevant. Contrast TDW, Captain Marvel, The First Avenger or Doctor Strange where we have Stones and nothing to do with Thanos with the Avengers, Infinity War, Endgame or GOTG where the Stones and Thanos are part of the same storyline... and it is those four films alone where we can say that (Ultron too if you want to talk about a post credits scene we don't know the placement of in the timeline).

Where's the Infinity Saga now? Oh, that's right, a marketer's wet dream.

But, here's the thing, we're pitching a Nova movie. What's the only time we've met them in the MCU? Oh, that's right... when they almost got wiped out by the Power Stone/Ronan in GOTG. And their planet basically doesn't get referenced again (except as a waypoint in Ragnarok) until we learn that they've been successfully wiped out because they possessed the Power Stone. The MCU Nova Corps are completely wrapped up with the Infinity Stones. They have no present day existence (being wiped out five years ago in the MCU timeline... provided we assume they rebuilt after getting totalled in GOTG, nine years ago) and don't, at all, resemble the setting you want to translate directly on to screen.

I completely agree the MCU needs to move on from what it's been doing. But choosing to use a property that the MCU has completely intertwined with the Infinity Stones to completely ignore Infinity Stones is fucking insane. That's terrible storytelling. What's better is to use this context to set-up future films and produce a movie that is tonally distinct to what we've already got. The Power Stone is just a convenient explanation for why the Nova Corps go from generic force field hover cruisers to space police with helmets that access the Nova Force. That's a huge change in how they work.

Look at all that work to make a convoluted thing kinda work

Holy fuck dude.

No.

It's really simple idea. Hey, why don't you make a Nova Corps movie about Richard Rider set against the backdrop of Xandar's destruction by Thanos?

The difference is that unlike your shit translocation of the comics directly to the MCU that I've bothered to point out why problems people might raise don't actually exist. It's called being aware of the context a pitch is being made in (i.e. scepticism of prequels).

in a super confusing way when you can just use the origins of the character, a dying Nova soldier gives New Yorker Richard Rider his suit but Greatest American Hero style not the instructions and he becomes a superhero. No convoluted machinations, no having to quote Roland fukcing Barthes to justify your weird decision,

Man, mentioning anything to do with Barthes really fucking sets you off doesn't it?

Jesus Christ, that video has barely anything to do with Barthes and, also, was using the Death of the Author to explain why prequels tend to have problems. Which is, um, pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

no going back to the Infinity Saga yet again, not another wise cracking earthling in space, just a new hero on Earth with space powers perfectly ready to fold in to whatever over arching villain they settle on.

Sometimes the easiest road is the easiest because it's the best road.

By which you mean "I can make snide comments all day without justifying a single thing I've said and ignoring the huge problems that exist with my pitch".

You want to do Nova on Earth? Just do Sam Alexander. You know, the current Nova that's been in all sorts of popular books and lives in Arizona with his mum and sister, but tries to fight crime mostly on the US East Coast anyway. The one that's friends with Kamala Khan who already has a confirmed MCU appearance. It just seems to, you know, make way more sense than using some random guy who, at this stage, is way better known for being a Cosmic Character.

Not that anyone other than you suggested a wise cracking human in space. That's your baggage, man, don't try and make me go home with it.

[HC Eredivisie]

Justice League Apokolips War was pretty ok for a DCAMU movie, probably because Jay wasn't allowed to direct it.

DC can't even keep up their own thread here so we adopt it in the MCU-thread? That's okay. From what I've read the DC animation is pretty good.

There's a huge problem with this pitch... the MCU Nova Corps is nothing like the comics Nova Corps.

It's staggering how little that matters.

Well, I guess some of them would have been welcome in help fending of Ronan and the Dark Aster, but they were out on missions or something.

I know, I was joking.
but the Nova Corps has been destroyed.

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

Not bad, but wouldn't Nova essentially be a male Captain Marvel powerwise?

[Cannot think of a name]

Justice League Apokolips War was pretty ok for a DCAMU movie, probably because Jay wasn't allowed to direct it.

DC can't even keep up their own thread here so we adopt it in the MCU-thread? That's okay. From what I've read the DC animation is pretty good.

It's staggering how little that matters.

Well, I guess some of them would have been welcome in help fending of Ronan and the Dark Aster, but they were out on missions or something.

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

Not bad, but wouldn't Nova essentially be a male Captain Marvel powerwise?

They could crank it down or tweak it. Certainly having another hero that can smash through space ships would be too much. But the Eternals are pretty powerful and their on deck, so maybe this next phase is going to be all about the big hitters.

I suspect we're going to get WandaVision even earlier than the already earlier that we're going to. They were done with photography before the shutdown and their only hang up was making sure their shared server was secure enough and they were editing as they shot. The only real trick is that now that Marvel Entertainment and Studios are together there's a lot more coordination between the stories so WandaVision happens in a specific spot in the story.

[New haven america]

Justice League Apokolips War was pretty ok for a DCAMU movie, probably because Jay wasn't allowed to direct it.

DC can't even keep up their own thread here so we adopt it in the MCU-thread? That's okay. From what I've read the DC animation is pretty good.

It's staggering how little that matters.

Well, I guess some of them would have been welcome in help fending of Ronan and the Dark Aster, but they were out on missions or something.

well what if the Corps is reformed. The GOTG could reform the Nova Corps and help survivors rebuild on another planet where Nova comes from and helps the GOTG fight Adam Warlock then helps them turn Adam into an ally.

Not bad, but wouldn't Nova essentially be a male Captain Marvel powerwise?

You misunderstand, I am coopting the MCU thread for my own nefarious purposes.

And yeah, the movie was pretty ok. Course the entire DCAMU has been pretty iffy so far so being ok seems like a good point to leave it at, shame we won't be getting more TT though because they had the most consistently pleasant stories and characters out of all of them.

[Cannot think of a name]

DC can't even keep up their own thread here so we adopt it in the MCU-thread? That's okay. From what I've read the DC animation is pretty good.

Well, I guess some of them would have been welcome in help fending of Ronan and the Dark Aster, but they were out on missions or something.

Not bad, but wouldn't Nova essentially be a male Captain Marvel powerwise?

You misunderstand, I am coopting the MCU thread for my own nefarious purposes.

And yeah, the movie was pretty ok. Course the entire DCAMU has been pretty iffy so far so being ok seems like a good point to leave it at, shame we won't be getting more TT though because they had the most consistently pleasant stories and characters out of all of them.

I've always thought that DC did animation better than Marvel with the same gulf in quality as the MCU and the DCEU. Though a lot of that is down to Bruce Timm. There's a sort of radius, how close to Bruce Timm the animated movie is correlates to its quality.

Marvel animated movies that I've seen so far have been pretty abysmal. Except I think it was Ultimate Avengers...and that's mostly down to a single moment. After The Big Fight Hulk won't calm down so Pym goes giant man and tries to palm big green who of course punches his hand open and then jumps onto his jugular and squeezes. Maybe it was because I was watching it with a crowd, but that was hilarious. But I seem to remember Planet Hulk being almost unwatchable. Or some Hulk movie.