MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Forsher]

Because pointing out that maybe it would be relevant to explain that they used Dawson casting should be the first thing someone does is a hill to die on?

Pathetic.

[Ameriganastan]

How about both of you put a sock in it already?

[Fedel]

We're not doing that at all.

I suggested that they do a young FF for the MCU. You called this "disgusting" and if you have seen the film itself have completely ignored the salient feature of, you know, the film's practising Dawson casting.

What we're really talking about is whether or not they did a younger version of the FF in Fan4stic.

Not that the age discrepancy is particularly relevant since I very clearly suggested not Dawson casting.

Immediately after calling it "disgusting" I made it clear I was joking by saying something along the lines of "but honestly" before giving a more measured yet still critical statement. Sorry you had trouble figuring that one out.

The point of my statement is that I don't think the characters should be portrayed as young ( regardless of the age of the actors that portray them ).

Given Reed was recruited out of highschool by Doom, it's an indisputable fact that they portrayed them as far younger then the versions in Fantastic 4.

The issue was never about that but ok...

[New haven america]

How about both of you put a sock in it already?

Stop it and eat your popcorn.

[Forsher]

We're not doing that at all.

I suggested that they do a young FF for the MCU. You called this "disgusting" and if you have seen the film itself have completely ignored the salient feature of, you know, the film's practising Dawson casting.

What we're really talking about is whether or not they did a younger version of the FF in Fan4stic.

Not that the age discrepancy is particularly relevant since I very clearly suggested not Dawson casting.

Immediately after calling it "disgusting" I made it clear I was joking by saying something along the lines of "but honestly" before giving a more measured yet still critical statement. Sorry you had trouble figuring that one out.

The point of my statement is that I don't think the characters should be portrayed as young ( regardless of the age of the actors that portray them ).

Given Reed was recruited out of highschool by Doom, it's an indisputable fact that they portrayed them as far younger then the versions in Fantastic 4.

The issue was never about that but ok...

Have you seen the movie? If so, why didn't you immediately point out... when I provided the actors ages... that they used Dawson casting?

In any case, as I said before, a young FF is the way to go and the way to do that is to cast age appropriate actors. Or, in other words, "unknowns".

You know what's really annoying about this? I think I'm the only person who's actually suggested what they do want from a FF film. And I wasn't very specific. I can be much more specific...

I disagree. I say, do them young. Early twenties.

Have Sue and Johnny be non-American; maybe have Reed try and meet the elder Storms when they visit the States but he fails and ends up encountering Sue. Naturally, Sue is also very bright so she's also interested in whatever Reed wanted to bring up with her parents. If we wanted Doctor Doom to be in the movie, make this a party at an embassy or an embassy party hosted elsewhere. Meanwhile Ben will have encountered Johnny since Ben will have driven Reed to this function. They won't be getting along.

Now... I actually quite like the 2005 film and Ultimate Universe approach where Doom gets powered up in the same incident so my thinking is that he should be in the film and with them. The question we've got to ask ourselves is are we going to be discussing teleportation or space travel? I think the former actually since it's not something obviously connected to anything Tony's done, whereas space travel is. If Tony dies in Endgame then the younger age solves several "but, why?" questions for us but teleportation is easier still. Therefore, we can move from the party to a garage or storage container or whatever. Doom will have intruded on Reed's accidental meeting with Sue and impressed both of them with his ideas.

So... we're with the teleportation equipment and I guess Reed's not intending on doing a demonstration but Johnny's come along and not impressed with the theories. Doom should be sceptical of the ability of the equipment which is why Ben too, at this point, might suggest that a demonstration is a good idea. That latter point should emphasise his belief in Reed who, for his own part, is equivocal. This should lead to an argument with Doom, in which Sue could participate but instead she'll have been absorbed with the blueprints or something... which she should use to intervene. And so there will be a successful demonstration and Johnny should want to go bigger.

This will be why Reed wanted further backing since he won't think it's possible. Doom should suggest some technobabble that Reed disagrees with but which gives him an idea that he's confident will work. Ben should be cautious at this point, reminding Reed why they wanted to meet the elder Storms; Sue should agree with Reed's interpretation. Doom stands by his own position and fiddles with the equipment...

At this point the apple they teleported previously (it's always apples) should reappear. This is not something that was meant to happen. Reed will blame Doom's fiddling with somehow having caused this effect, Doom will suggest that he thought its returning was the whole point. Whatever he says isn't really very important since they will all vanish at this point. The apple will have been picked up by Sue. She might theorise its return is related to its organic mass just before they disappear.

The question here is what is the rest of this movie to be? I don't feel inclined to make Doom the bad guy of this film. I'm not sure if there should be a bad guy as such. No. I would say that at this point we should put in an appearance by Simon Utrecht the original backer of the project. To arrive at the scene he should negotiate a SHIELD presence who have failed to accurately locate the source of the teleportation, but their presence causes Utrecht to worry about his investment. He will take it away and spend the rest of the film tinkering with it (or have someone do so on his behalf... depends on what we want to do re: cameos of existing characters). Obviously the characters will have to discern patterns here.

The main objective of this film will be to have an adventure in space caused by the teleporter (which by its nature will have given them their usual powers). The problem to be resolved is being bounced around planetary bodies with an earth-like mass and/or biomass at irregular intervals with a distinct disagreement over ideas about how to get back to earth and stop the "pinging". Utrecht's tinkering and tests will cause further complications (at various intervals they will find themselves accompanied by apples).

Obviously we're going to have to have some kind of action set-piece and if we're going to do the FF then at some point we should do Galactus. Teasing the one should solve the other. On the planets we encounter during the movie we should come across "wanted" posters for the Silver Surfer. Naturally, these will be fairly crude since Galactus eats planets the Surfer visits. That's important since Doom doesn't look that different to the Surfer. Silver and grey and metallic, you know? Man shaped. Therefore, the set piece will be that Doom gets captured by locals and they have to risk missing their opportunity to get home for who knows how long until they can build another machine to rescue Doom... or they leave Doom behind and take the opportunity now. Obviously they'll go to rescue Doom.

So... now we're back on Earth and they destroy the original equipment, but Doom's sulking and Ben's obviously not so happy (there'll probably be an arc about looking normal when they get back). Utrecht will be impressed but acts the parts he ought too.

Credits Scene 1: Have Fury or someone like that come and take possession of the equipment, plans and original container (I decided it needed to be portable). The SHIELD (or whomever) agent will mention something associated with gamma radiation or Bruce (perhaps his algorithm from The Avengers).

Credits Scene 2: Utrecht gathers three cronies and brandishes a data stick. (This is why the Banner/Hulk allusion is important.)

Credits Scene 3: The Guardians (or some other established Cosmic character) will arrive somewhere and expect to find a planet that isn't there.

So... this is an origins story but it's quite different, I feel, to the usual origin story. The irony is that it sets up and alludes to a group of villains who could be used to do Marvel's usual origin story approach of similar superpowers. Similarly, it's not a superhero story at all... it's more like Interstellar or Inception in terms of what the movie's problem is.

So... any thoughts? Please don't downvote without saying why.

p.s. The movie will have product placement for cotton/natural fibre related clothing. This is a plot point.

I even have explanatory notes:

I should mention why I did some of the things I did here.

The OP says he wants to avoid the cliche tropes of coming together as a couple which, presumably, he didn't like about the 2005 film. Obviously I play things very differently but I see where the OP's coming from. This is because I'd like to try and build this as a more subtle version of the Fast and Furious films? Reed playing O'Conner not Dom, and therefore he should meet the love interest in the film. The question becomes what's the pacing of the relationship? Faster than bloody Pepper and Tony but beyond that? I don't know.

Why doesn't Sue take an active part in the arguments and instead be looking at plans and/or apples. That's how you have an invisible presence in the discussion which also allows you to make the final contribution. Similarly, Ben's faithful and is solid as a rock regarding Reed's original plans and intentions, hence his faith in the initial demonstration and concerns about going bigger. Johnny's a hothead and Reed equivocal for the same reasons. Doom is sceptical at first but becomes committed once something has happened... same as how metal isn't elastic but nor is it brittle like rock. I know this is a cliche but it's an interesting one.

Why are they young and/or foreign? Well, it's because we're introducing the FF to an established universe and we ought to know why we're not meeting people like Tony in the film or why the FF are new on the scene. By making the Storm's foreign it makes it easy for the film to explain why the characters haven't met and why Reed would be coming to the elder Storms now. (I also envision overtones of economic privilege here, particularly in how Ben and Johnny first interact.). And why the elder Storms? Firstly, Tony's an engineer whereas Reed's more a scientist and we can mould the Storms to be interested in areas that Reed considers more relevant to the project. Secondly, if Reed's older, then he should want to meet Tony and have tried already... look at Killian and Rebecca Hall's character. But if he's younger and Tony's dead then he won't have had the opportunity by the time he's as far into his project as he is at the start of the above plot outline. And if he's younger and Tony's not dead then it just gives the Storms more time to become the most relevant option.

Why no bad guy? Superhero origin stories are cliche. People are over them. Why not create a film where characters have to learn how to deal with their powers whilst trying to resolve a longstanding problem without having everything boil down to a big fight? Doesn't that seem more interesting? Or, at least, different?

Also, the villain-less plot allows us to get more development of our actual main cast... of whom there are five... in. Specifically, it lets us do that while also allowing us to develop our future bad guy. That should help us care about him and what he's up to when he is the villain of whatever film... or make a spinoff movie about him not be an origin story.

There are probably some adjustments to be made in light of Endgame and certainly one of the main motivations for doing them young doesn't hold so much due to

the timeskip and Tony's death in the sense but there's still the absurdity of giving them superpowers from travelling in space given the amount of space travel we've seen so far.

[HC Eredivisie]

How about both of you put a sock in it already?

Stop it and eat your popcorn.

Until the new Spider-Man comes out, this is what we're going to do here.

[Christian Confederation]

Stop it and eat your popcorn.

Until the new Spider-Man comes out, this is what we're going to do here.

Speaking of spider Man does anyone have a commitment or idea for this I've been working on?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=new ... id=1205872
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=new ... id=1205846
This is my pupet before anyone asks.

[Cannot think of a name]

Joking around on my facebook, thought it would be better here:

Now that the alternate Earths thing exists as well in the MCU, somewhere in the next saga I want them to go full balls. I want them to visit Earth 616.

Run into a Scarlett Witch wearing red leotards and a giant thing on her head. Have her try and explain to Earth 19999 Wanda who her dad is. A Hawkeye with a big H on his head.

Try and have a conversation about how crazy shit's been on Earth 19999, have the Earth 616 people go, "You're gonna want to have a seat...

You have a blowout between the Avengers? Yeah? Why did that happen? Someone blew up part of a building? Haha, yeah. Well. A super hero team with a reality show vaporized a city block. Oh, and Wolverine was an Avenger at the time. Except everywhere he went there was a giant robot monitoring him.

Your Ultron tried to smash the world with a city. That's rough. Where's he now? Gone? Really? Yeah, nope. Ours is still around. Yeah, there was an actual age, not a few unfortunate weeks.

Hey, what was your Thanos all about? Misguided altruism. That's cute. Ours was trying to date Lady Death. No no, the actual personification of Death. But he was being played by Mephisto. Yeah, like from Faust. But real.

Have you met the Skrulls? They're good guys? That's fucking nuts. Our Mr. Fantastic hypnotized some of them into thinking they were cows. Yeah, no shit. Stayed that way, bred with other cows and everything, part of a big invasion. What are his kids like, your Mr Fantastic? Doesn't have any yet? Ours they're some of the most powerful beings in the world. Almost fucked up everything. Excuse me? Oh...five years old. Yeah.

What's your MODOK like? You don't have one? Hahaa...you might need a drink."

[HC Eredivisie]

Earth 616

[Cannot think of a name]

Earth 616

I sort of assumed it being a fan thread that everyone was up to date on what Earth 616 was.

[HC Eredivisie]

It was about the reference of Earth 616 in Thor: the Dark World which I only learned about yesterday.

[Fedel]

Immediately after calling it "disgusting" I made it clear I was joking by saying something along the lines of "but honestly" before giving a more measured yet still critical statement. Sorry you had trouble figuring that one out.

The point of my statement is that I don't think the characters should be portrayed as young ( regardless of the age of the actors that portray them ).

Given Reed was recruited out of highschool by Doom, it's an indisputable fact that they portrayed them as far younger then the versions in Fantastic 4.

The issue was never about that but ok...

Have you seen the movie? If so, why didn't you immediately point out... when I provided the actors ages... that they used Dawson casting?

In any case, as I said before, a young FF is the way to go and the way to do that is to cast age appropriate actors. Or, in other words, "unknowns".

You know what's really annoying about this? I think I'm the only person who's actually suggested what they do want from a FF film. And I wasn't very specific. I can be much more specific...

I disagree. I say, do them young. Early twenties.

Have Sue and Johnny be non-American; maybe have Reed try and meet the elder Storms when they visit the States but he fails and ends up encountering Sue. Naturally, Sue is also very bright so she's also interested in whatever Reed wanted to bring up with her parents. If we wanted Doctor Doom to be in the movie, make this a party at an embassy or an embassy party hosted elsewhere. Meanwhile Ben will have encountered Johnny since Ben will have driven Reed to this function. They won't be getting along.

Now... I actually quite like the 2005 film and Ultimate Universe approach where Doom gets powered up in the same incident so my thinking is that he should be in the film and with them. The question we've got to ask ourselves is are we going to be discussing teleportation or space travel? I think the former actually since it's not something obviously connected to anything Tony's done, whereas space travel is. If Tony dies in Endgame then the younger age solves several "but, why?" questions for us but teleportation is easier still. Therefore, we can move from the party to a garage or storage container or whatever. Doom will have intruded on Reed's accidental meeting with Sue and impressed both of them with his ideas.

So... we're with the teleportation equipment and I guess Reed's not intending on doing a demonstration but Johnny's come along and not impressed with the theories. Doom should be sceptical of the ability of the equipment which is why Ben too, at this point, might suggest that a demonstration is a good idea. That latter point should emphasise his belief in Reed who, for his own part, is equivocal. This should lead to an argument with Doom, in which Sue could participate but instead she'll have been absorbed with the blueprints or something... which she should use to intervene. And so there will be a successful demonstration and Johnny should want to go bigger.

This will be why Reed wanted further backing since he won't think it's possible. Doom should suggest some technobabble that Reed disagrees with but which gives him an idea that he's confident will work. Ben should be cautious at this point, reminding Reed why they wanted to meet the elder Storms; Sue should agree with Reed's interpretation. Doom stands by his own position and fiddles with the equipment...

At this point the apple they teleported previously (it's always apples) should reappear. This is not something that was meant to happen. Reed will blame Doom's fiddling with somehow having caused this effect, Doom will suggest that he thought its returning was the whole point. Whatever he says isn't really very important since they will all vanish at this point. The apple will have been picked up by Sue. She might theorise its return is related to its organic mass just before they disappear.

The question here is what is the rest of this movie to be? I don't feel inclined to make Doom the bad guy of this film. I'm not sure if there should be a bad guy as such. No. I would say that at this point we should put in an appearance by Simon Utrecht the original backer of the project. To arrive at the scene he should negotiate a SHIELD presence who have failed to accurately locate the source of the teleportation, but their presence causes Utrecht to worry about his investment. He will take it away and spend the rest of the film tinkering with it (or have someone do so on his behalf... depends on what we want to do re: cameos of existing characters). Obviously the characters will have to discern patterns here.

The main objective of this film will be to have an adventure in space caused by the teleporter (which by its nature will have given them their usual powers). The problem to be resolved is being bounced around planetary bodies with an earth-like mass and/or biomass at irregular intervals with a distinct disagreement over ideas about how to get back to earth and stop the "pinging". Utrecht's tinkering and tests will cause further complications (at various intervals they will find themselves accompanied by apples).

Obviously we're going to have to have some kind of action set-piece and if we're going to do the FF then at some point we should do Galactus. Teasing the one should solve the other. On the planets we encounter during the movie we should come across "wanted" posters for the Silver Surfer. Naturally, these will be fairly crude since Galactus eats planets the Surfer visits. That's important since Doom doesn't look that different to the Surfer. Silver and grey and metallic, you know? Man shaped. Therefore, the set piece will be that Doom gets captured by locals and they have to risk missing their opportunity to get home for who knows how long until they can build another machine to rescue Doom... or they leave Doom behind and take the opportunity now. Obviously they'll go to rescue Doom.

So... now we're back on Earth and they destroy the original equipment, but Doom's sulking and Ben's obviously not so happy (there'll probably be an arc about looking normal when they get back). Utrecht will be impressed but acts the parts he ought too.

Credits Scene 1: Have Fury or someone like that come and take possession of the equipment, plans and original container (I decided it needed to be portable). The SHIELD (or whomever) agent will mention something associated with gamma radiation or Bruce (perhaps his algorithm from The Avengers).

Credits Scene 2: Utrecht gathers three cronies and brandishes a data stick. (This is why the Banner/Hulk allusion is important.)

Credits Scene 3: The Guardians (or some other established Cosmic character) will arrive somewhere and expect to find a planet that isn't there.

So... this is an origins story but it's quite different, I feel, to the usual origin story. The irony is that it sets up and alludes to a group of villains who could be used to do Marvel's usual origin story approach of similar superpowers. Similarly, it's not a superhero story at all... it's more like Interstellar or Inception in terms of what the movie's problem is.

So... any thoughts? Please don't downvote without saying why.

p.s. The movie will have product placement for cotton/natural fibre related clothing. This is a plot point.

I even have explanatory notes:

I should mention why I did some of the things I did here.

The OP says he wants to avoid the cliche tropes of coming together as a couple which, presumably, he didn't like about the 2005 film. Obviously I play things very differently but I see where the OP's coming from. This is because I'd like to try and build this as a more subtle version of the Fast and Furious films? Reed playing O'Conner not Dom, and therefore he should meet the love interest in the film. The question becomes what's the pacing of the relationship? Faster than bloody Pepper and Tony but beyond that? I don't know.

Why doesn't Sue take an active part in the arguments and instead be looking at plans and/or apples. That's how you have an invisible presence in the discussion which also allows you to make the final contribution. Similarly, Ben's faithful and is solid as a rock regarding Reed's original plans and intentions, hence his faith in the initial demonstration and concerns about going bigger. Johnny's a hothead and Reed equivocal for the same reasons. Doom is sceptical at first but becomes committed once something has happened... same as how metal isn't elastic but nor is it brittle like rock. I know this is a cliche but it's an interesting one.

Why are they young and/or foreign? Well, it's because we're introducing the FF to an established universe and we ought to know why we're not meeting people like Tony in the film or why the FF are new on the scene. By making the Storm's foreign it makes it easy for the film to explain why the characters haven't met and why Reed would be coming to the elder Storms now. (I also envision overtones of economic privilege here, particularly in how Ben and Johnny first interact.). And why the elder Storms? Firstly, Tony's an engineer whereas Reed's more a scientist and we can mould the Storms to be interested in areas that Reed considers more relevant to the project. Secondly, if Reed's older, then he should want to meet Tony and have tried already... look at Killian and Rebecca Hall's character. But if he's younger and Tony's dead then he won't have had the opportunity by the time he's as far into his project as he is at the start of the above plot outline. And if he's younger and Tony's not dead then it just gives the Storms more time to become the most relevant option.

Why no bad guy? Superhero origin stories are cliche. People are over them. Why not create a film where characters have to learn how to deal with their powers whilst trying to resolve a longstanding problem without having everything boil down to a big fight? Doesn't that seem more interesting? Or, at least, different?

Also, the villain-less plot allows us to get more development of our actual main cast... of whom there are five... in. Specifically, it lets us do that while also allowing us to develop our future bad guy. That should help us care about him and what he's up to when he is the villain of whatever film... or make a spinoff movie about him not be an origin story.

There are probably some adjustments to be made in light of Endgame and certainly one of the main motivations for doing them young doesn't hold so much due to

the timeskip and Tony's death in the sense but there's still the absurdity of giving them superpowers from travelling in space given the amount of space travel we've seen so far.

Because that was never relevant to my statement... The actual age of the actors doesn't matter to me. Only how old they actually appear to be or are portrayed in the movie.

I disagree. I think part of the reason Fant4stic failed was because they were portrayed as younger people out of highscool or college. It dumbs down what they are and takes time out of actually developing the story and plot for adolescent shenanigans and it's usually done in a failed attempt to relate to audiences who are that age themselves.

I'll read your long essay about the Fantastic Four you'd rather see later, as it's a bit wordy to go at right before class.

[Lord Dominator]

Honestly I'm not in love with the whole thing of Doom getting powers, but any actual MCU movie can probably do it better than FF2015.

[Cannot think of a name]

Honestly I'm not in love with the whole thing of Doom getting powers, but any actual MCU movie can probably do it better than FF2015.

It's time for there to finally be a Doctor Doom who is a science wizard. And leader of Latvia.

Also, you see this bullshit? Mysterio telling Spider-man that he's in 616? Goddammit. The MCU is 19999. This is going to make it into a whole...thing.

[Lord Dominator]

Honestly I'm not in love with the whole thing of Doom getting powers, but any actual MCU movie can probably do it better than FF2015.

It's time for there to finally be a Doctor Doom who is a science wizard. And leader of Latvia.

Also, you see this bullshit? Mysterio telling Spider-man that he's in 616? Goddammit. The MCU is 19999. This is going to make it into a whole...thing.

In-universe mistake maybe, that acts as a comics gag?
Or could just be contradicting the comics, dunno.

[Cannot think of a name]

It's time for there to finally be a Doctor Doom who is a science wizard. And leader of Latvia.

Also, you see this bullshit? Mysterio telling Spider-man that he's in 616? Goddammit. The MCU is 19999. This is going to make it into a whole...thing.

In-universe mistake maybe, that acts as a comics gag?
Or could just be contradicting the comics, dunno.

Mysterio is a lying liar who tells lies, like as a core element of his character. I'm not sure why he'd lie about what reality number they're in since the numbers don't mean shit to the people inside the MCU, but still. That's what I'm going with.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Maybe the universe numbers in universe for the MCU are different from how they’re otherwise labeled.

So 616 is a reference to the comics but doesn’t literally mean that universe.

[Cannot think of a name]

Maybe the universe numbers in universe for the MCU are different from how they’re otherwise labeled.

So 616 is a reference to the comics but doesn’t literally mean that universe.

It's like that 127.0.0.1

[HC Eredivisie]

In-universe mistake maybe, that acts as a comics gag?
Or could just be contradicting the comics, dunno.

Mysterio is a lying liar who tells lies, like as a core element of his character. I'm not sure why he'd lie about what reality number they're in since the numbers don't mean shit to the people inside the MCU, but still. That's what I'm going with.

Well, I guess it's one of the following

A: It's just a little nod to the comics
B: Mysterio is a lying liar who tells lies (maybe the number is important for some reason we don't know yet)
3: Marvel decided the MCU is now the main canon and thus 616/ it's a live adaptation of the 616 universe
D: Mysterio has comic awareness and is subtly trying to tell they are comic book/movie characters. Except that that is not his superpower so Mysterio is actually Deadpool in disguise. Which makes sense in a Spider-Man movie. I want this.

And to be fair, saying they're in Universe 19999 just sounds stupid.

[Valrifell]

Earth-19999 does make for pretty clunky dialogue exchanges and I'm sure they'll make it canon-consistent by making Mysterio to be the pathological liar we know he is.

[Forsher]

I think it's a retcon.

Time Runs Out destroyed all the comics universes so in theory the MCU shouldn't exist, right? Therefore it makes the most sense to treat it as something special... and adaptation for which there is possibly a comics universe that is precisely the same.

[Forsher]

Because that was never relevant to my statement... The actual age of the actors doesn't matter to me. Only how old they actually appear to be or are portrayed in the movie.

I don't think you know what Dawson casting is...

Dawson casting is an observed cultural phenomenon and movie trope in film and television where many of the actors appear, and in reality are, much older than the characters they are portraying.

Have you seen the movie? Because it's really odd for someone who has seen the film to ignore (assuming CTOAN didn't tell a pack of lies) that "Reed Richards is portrayed as fresh out of high school."

Instead you engaged with the actor-centric approach I took. Something you're calling "irrelevant" now. Not that it is irrelevant. Trying to pass off a bunch of 30 year olds (late 20s at the youngest) as teens/very early twenties is just stupid... and it very obviously didn't work (as per your picture).

I'll read your long essay about the Fantastic Four you'd rather see later, as it's a bit wordy to go at right before class.

Hence why it's in a spoiler.

[Fedel]

I don't think you know what Dawson casting is...

In fact I do. Still don't know what that has to do with what I've been saying. Again, I personally don't care about the ACTUAL age of the actors. Only how old the Fantastic Four character's are portrayed to be and whether or not they appear to be their portrayed ages ( the adults in the Fant4stic are both portrayed to be adolescents and look like adolescents, something I don't like ).

Have you seen the movie? Because it's really odd for someone who has seen the film to ignore (assuming CTOAN didn't tell a pack of lies) that "Reed Richards is portrayed as fresh out of high school."

What are you talking about? When did I ignore it? Not initially addressing something doesn't equate to ignoring it. It just means that it didn't come up at that point in the conversation. It would likely have been mentioned and discussed if we had continued.

Instead you engaged with the actor-centric approach I took. Something you're calling "irrelevant" now. Not that it is irrelevant.

I'm not calling the acting aspect of the movie irrelevant. I'm explaining that whether or not the actors are or are not actually the age they're portrayed as is irrelevant to me. It only matters if they look that age. I'll repeat myself since since this doesn't seem to be getting through to you, I don't like that they were portrayed as adolescents to begin with meaning I don't think they should have hired young looking actors or portrayed them at that age.

Trying to pass off a bunch of 30 year olds (late 20s at the youngest) as teens/very early twenties is just stupid...

I couldn't care less personally. If they look that age then it's fine to me.

and it very obviously didn't work (as per your picture).

Again, I don't know what to tell you here. Of the 3 people that have seen them, you're opinion's in the minority. I can hold a public poll on the matter if you'd like.

[Cannot think of a name]

Unknowns. I want a young FF.

I just want to go back to where it all started. Maybe because I hate myself, maybe because if I hear about Dawsons Creek one more fucking time...

This was the answer. Two sentences. Shockingly brief.

First sentence, fine. Unknowns. Clearly refers to the actors as the Fantastic Four are not unknown.

"I want a young FF." That was Fant4astic Four, a young Fantastic Four the the characters. None of us liked that.

If that's not what you meant, fine. That's what it implied. On that implication our vote is no. If you somehow meant that you want young actors playing an age appropriate Fantastic Four, fine. Not what you wrote, but whatever. Definitely not worth going on for pages and pages about it. Also, a weird request, but whatever. It seems like what happens in CW casting where I feel like everything takes place in the Bugsy Malone world (a gangster movie with an all kid cast).

How this became a whole fucking thing is NS in a nutshell.

In the vein hopes that we can move on and never talk about teen romance shows of the 90s ever ever again...

Who's gay? Scarlet Witch had an android boyfriend, Cap had Peggy, Tony had Pepper, Scott was married and is with Hope, Hawkeye is married, Nat and Bruce had a thing, Doctor Strange had a thing with that chick, Thor had Jane, Star-Lord has Gamora, Drax had a family, they're ain't no thing like Rocket but Rocket, T'Challa has whatserhername who totally doesn't make him freeze, Spider-man has MJ...who is left?

Fury, Captain Marvel, Nebula, Mantis, Groot is the last of his kind and probably pollinates rather than mates meaning in our terms is on the sexuality spectrum that ignores the binary, Rhody, Sam Wilson, Shuri? Captain Marvel is the only headline character they could do it to, but considering all the panty bunching already in place I wonder if they'd light that fire. Maybe they will in a 'fuck you, we're Marvel Disney. Even DCEU movies make money and they're terrible. We'll get by feasting on the tears of youtubers."

Also the article speculates that the 'new' character was Joe Russo's but I'm holding out for Northstar.

[Lord Dominator]

I could totally see CM being one of them. Problem with guessing others is that they say gay specifically, rather than bi and that massively narrows down the possibilities as you've likewise noticed.

A conundrum to be sure.

Though, you did forget Wong and Bucky at minimum. At least in terms of major characters we don't have (up-to-date) sexuality details for.