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by Forsher » Wed May 08, 2019 8:32 pm
by Ameriganastan » Wed May 08, 2019 8:48 pm
Edward Richtofen wrote:Ameri's so tough that he criticized an Insane Asylum and was promptly let out
Sinovet wrote:Ameri's like Honey badger. He don't give a fuck.
Krazakistan wrote: He is a force of negativity for the sake of negativity
Onocarcass wrote:Trying to change Ameri, is like trying to drag a 2 ton block of lead with your d**k.
Immoren wrote:When Ameri says something is shit it's good and when Ameri says some thing is good it's great. *nods*
by Fedel » Wed May 08, 2019 8:57 pm
Forsher wrote:We're not doing that at all.
I suggested that they do a young FF for the MCU. You called this "disgusting" and if you have seen the film itself have completely ignored the salient feature of, you know, the film's practising Dawson casting.
What we're really talking about is whether or not they did a younger version of the FF in Fan4stic.
Not that the age discrepancy is particularly relevant since I very clearly suggested not Dawson casting.
by New haven america » Wed May 08, 2019 9:54 pm
Ameriganastan wrote:How about both of you put a sock in it already?
by Forsher » Wed May 08, 2019 10:05 pm
Fedel wrote:Forsher wrote:We're not doing that at all.
I suggested that they do a young FF for the MCU. You called this "disgusting" and if you have seen the film itself have completely ignored the salient feature of, you know, the film's practising Dawson casting.
What we're really talking about is whether or not they did a younger version of the FF in Fan4stic.
Not that the age discrepancy is particularly relevant since I very clearly suggested not Dawson casting.
Immediately after calling it "disgusting" I made it clear I was joking by saying something along the lines of "but honestly" before giving a more measured yet still critical statement. Sorry you had trouble figuring that one out.
The point of my statement is that I don't think the characters should be portrayed as young ( regardless of the age of the actors that portray them ).
Given Reed was recruited out of highschool by Doom, it's an indisputable fact that they portrayed them as far younger then the versions in Fantastic 4.
The issue was never about that but ok...
by HC Eredivisie » Thu May 09, 2019 1:45 am
by Christian Confederation » Thu May 09, 2019 2:56 am
by Cannot think of a name » Thu May 09, 2019 3:03 am
by HC Eredivisie » Thu May 09, 2019 3:13 am
by Cannot think of a name » Thu May 09, 2019 4:58 am
by HC Eredivisie » Thu May 09, 2019 5:58 am
by Fedel » Thu May 09, 2019 7:36 am
Forsher wrote:Fedel wrote:
Immediately after calling it "disgusting" I made it clear I was joking by saying something along the lines of "but honestly" before giving a more measured yet still critical statement. Sorry you had trouble figuring that one out.
The point of my statement is that I don't think the characters should be portrayed as young ( regardless of the age of the actors that portray them ).
Given Reed was recruited out of highschool by Doom, it's an indisputable fact that they portrayed them as far younger then the versions in Fantastic 4.
The issue was never about that but ok...
Have you seen the movie? If so, why didn't you immediately point out... when I provided the actors ages... that they used Dawson casting?
In any case, as I said before, a young FF is the way to go and the way to do that is to cast age appropriate actors. Or, in other words, "unknowns".
You know what's really annoying about this? I think I'm the only person who's actually suggested what they do want from a FF film. And I wasn't very specific. I can be much more specific...I disagree. I say, do them young. Early twenties.
Have Sue and Johnny be non-American; maybe have Reed try and meet the elder Storms when they visit the States but he fails and ends up encountering Sue. Naturally, Sue is also very bright so she's also interested in whatever Reed wanted to bring up with her parents. If we wanted Doctor Doom to be in the movie, make this a party at an embassy or an embassy party hosted elsewhere. Meanwhile Ben will have encountered Johnny since Ben will have driven Reed to this function. They won't be getting along.
Now... I actually quite like the 2005 film and Ultimate Universe approach where Doom gets powered up in the same incident so my thinking is that he should be in the film and with them. The question we've got to ask ourselves is are we going to be discussing teleportation or space travel? I think the former actually since it's not something obviously connected to anything Tony's done, whereas space travel is. If Tony dies in Endgame then the younger age solves several "but, why?" questions for us but teleportation is easier still. Therefore, we can move from the party to a garage or storage container or whatever. Doom will have intruded on Reed's accidental meeting with Sue and impressed both of them with his ideas.
So... we're with the teleportation equipment and I guess Reed's not intending on doing a demonstration but Johnny's come along and not impressed with the theories. Doom should be sceptical of the ability of the equipment which is why Ben too, at this point, might suggest that a demonstration is a good idea. That latter point should emphasise his belief in Reed who, for his own part, is equivocal. This should lead to an argument with Doom, in which Sue could participate but instead she'll have been absorbed with the blueprints or something... which she should use to intervene. And so there will be a successful demonstration and Johnny should want to go bigger.
This will be why Reed wanted further backing since he won't think it's possible. Doom should suggest some technobabble that Reed disagrees with but which gives him an idea that he's confident will work. Ben should be cautious at this point, reminding Reed why they wanted to meet the elder Storms; Sue should agree with Reed's interpretation. Doom stands by his own position and fiddles with the equipment...
At this point the apple they teleported previously (it's always apples) should reappear. This is not something that was meant to happen. Reed will blame Doom's fiddling with somehow having caused this effect, Doom will suggest that he thought its returning was the whole point. Whatever he says isn't really very important since they will all vanish at this point. The apple will have been picked up by Sue. She might theorise its return is related to its organic mass just before they disappear.
The question here is what is the rest of this movie to be? I don't feel inclined to make Doom the bad guy of this film. I'm not sure if there should be a bad guy as such. No. I would say that at this point we should put in an appearance by Simon Utrecht the original backer of the project. To arrive at the scene he should negotiate a SHIELD presence who have failed to accurately locate the source of the teleportation, but their presence causes Utrecht to worry about his investment. He will take it away and spend the rest of the film tinkering with it (or have someone do so on his behalf... depends on what we want to do re: cameos of existing characters). Obviously the characters will have to discern patterns here.
The main objective of this film will be to have an adventure in space caused by the teleporter (which by its nature will have given them their usual powers). The problem to be resolved is being bounced around planetary bodies with an earth-like mass and/or biomass at irregular intervals with a distinct disagreement over ideas about how to get back to earth and stop the "pinging". Utrecht's tinkering and tests will cause further complications (at various intervals they will find themselves accompanied by apples).
Obviously we're going to have to have some kind of action set-piece and if we're going to do the FF then at some point we should do Galactus. Teasing the one should solve the other. On the planets we encounter during the movie we should come across "wanted" posters for the Silver Surfer. Naturally, these will be fairly crude since Galactus eats planets the Surfer visits. That's important since Doom doesn't look that different to the Surfer. Silver and grey and metallic, you know? Man shaped. Therefore, the set piece will be that Doom gets captured by locals and they have to risk missing their opportunity to get home for who knows how long until they can build another machine to rescue Doom... or they leave Doom behind and take the opportunity now. Obviously they'll go to rescue Doom.
So... now we're back on Earth and they destroy the original equipment, but Doom's sulking and Ben's obviously not so happy (there'll probably be an arc about looking normal when they get back). Utrecht will be impressed but acts the parts he ought too.
Credits Scene 1: Have Fury or someone like that come and take possession of the equipment, plans and original container (I decided it needed to be portable). The SHIELD (or whomever) agent will mention something associated with gamma radiation or Bruce (perhaps his algorithm from The Avengers).
Credits Scene 2: Utrecht gathers three cronies and brandishes a data stick. (This is why the Banner/Hulk allusion is important.)
Credits Scene 3: The Guardians (or some other established Cosmic character) will arrive somewhere and expect to find a planet that isn't there.
So... this is an origins story but it's quite different, I feel, to the usual origin story. The irony is that it sets up and alludes to a group of villains who could be used to do Marvel's usual origin story approach of similar superpowers. Similarly, it's not a superhero story at all... it's more like Interstellar or Inception in terms of what the movie's problem is.
So... any thoughts? Please don't downvote without saying why.
p.s. The movie will have product placement for cotton/natural fibre related clothing. This is a plot point.
I even have explanatory notes:I should mention why I did some of the things I did here.
The OP says he wants to avoid the cliche tropes of coming together as a couple which, presumably, he didn't like about the 2005 film. Obviously I play things very differently but I see where the OP's coming from. This is because I'd like to try and build this as a more subtle version of the Fast and Furious films? Reed playing O'Conner not Dom, and therefore he should meet the love interest in the film. The question becomes what's the pacing of the relationship? Faster than bloody Pepper and Tony but beyond that? I don't know.
Why doesn't Sue take an active part in the arguments and instead be looking at plans and/or apples. That's how you have an invisible presence in the discussion which also allows you to make the final contribution. Similarly, Ben's faithful and is solid as a rock regarding Reed's original plans and intentions, hence his faith in the initial demonstration and concerns about going bigger. Johnny's a hothead and Reed equivocal for the same reasons. Doom is sceptical at first but becomes committed once something has happened... same as how metal isn't elastic but nor is it brittle like rock. I know this is a cliche but it's an interesting one.
Why are they young and/or foreign? Well, it's because we're introducing the FF to an established universe and we ought to know why we're not meeting people like Tony in the film or why the FF are new on the scene. By making the Storm's foreign it makes it easy for the film to explain why the characters haven't met and why Reed would be coming to the elder Storms now. (I also envision overtones of economic privilege here, particularly in how Ben and Johnny first interact.). And why the elder Storms? Firstly, Tony's an engineer whereas Reed's more a scientist and we can mould the Storms to be interested in areas that Reed considers more relevant to the project. Secondly, if Reed's older, then he should want to meet Tony and have tried already... look at Killian and Rebecca Hall's character. But if he's younger and Tony's dead then he won't have had the opportunity by the time he's as far into his project as he is at the start of the above plot outline. And if he's younger and Tony's not dead then it just gives the Storms more time to become the most relevant option.
Why no bad guy? Superhero origin stories are cliche. People are over them. Why not create a film where characters have to learn how to deal with their powers whilst trying to resolve a longstanding problem without having everything boil down to a big fight? Doesn't that seem more interesting? Or, at least, different?
Also, the villain-less plot allows us to get more development of our actual main cast... of whom there are five... in. Specifically, it lets us do that while also allowing us to develop our future bad guy. That should help us care about him and what he's up to when he is the villain of whatever film... or make a spinoff movie about him not be an origin story.
There are probably some adjustments to be made in light of Endgame and certainly one of the main motivations for doing them young doesn't hold so much due tothe timeskip and Tony's death in the sense but there's still the absurdity of giving them superpowers from travelling in space given the amount of space travel we've seen so far.
by Lord Dominator » Thu May 09, 2019 7:37 am
by Cannot think of a name » Thu May 09, 2019 10:15 am
Lord Dominator wrote:Honestly I'm not in love with the whole thing of Doom getting powers, but any actual MCU movie can probably do it better than FF2015.
by Lord Dominator » Thu May 09, 2019 10:31 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:Lord Dominator wrote:Honestly I'm not in love with the whole thing of Doom getting powers, but any actual MCU movie can probably do it better than FF2015.
It's time for there to finally be a Doctor Doom who is a science wizard. And leader of Latvia.
Also, you see this bullshit? Mysterio telling Spider-man that he's in 616? Goddammit. The MCU is 19999. This is going to make it into a whole...thing.
by Cannot think of a name » Thu May 09, 2019 10:36 am
Lord Dominator wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:It's time for there to finally be a Doctor Doom who is a science wizard. And leader of Latvia.
Also, you see this bullshit? Mysterio telling Spider-man that he's in 616? Goddammit. The MCU is 19999. This is going to make it into a whole...thing.
In-universe mistake maybe, that acts as a comics gag?
Or could just be contradicting the comics, dunno.
by The first Galactic Republic » Thu May 09, 2019 10:47 am
by Cannot think of a name » Thu May 09, 2019 11:35 am
The first Galactic Republic wrote:Maybe the universe numbers in universe for the MCU are different from how they’re otherwise labeled.
So 616 is a reference to the comics but doesn’t literally mean that universe.
by HC Eredivisie » Thu May 09, 2019 1:31 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Lord Dominator wrote:In-universe mistake maybe, that acts as a comics gag?
Or could just be contradicting the comics, dunno.
Mysterio is a lying liar who tells lies, like as a core element of his character. I'm not sure why he'd lie about what reality number they're in since the numbers don't mean shit to the people inside the MCU, but still. That's what I'm going with.
by Valrifell » Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 pm
by Forsher » Thu May 09, 2019 8:48 pm
by Forsher » Thu May 09, 2019 10:53 pm
Fedel wrote:Because that was never relevant to my statement... The actual age of the actors doesn't matter to me. Only how old they actually appear to be or are portrayed in the movie.
Dawson casting is an observed cultural phenomenon and movie trope in film and television where many of the actors appear, and in reality are, much older than the characters they are portraying.
I'll read your long essay about the Fantastic Four you'd rather see later, as it's a bit wordy to go at right before class.
by Fedel » Fri May 10, 2019 8:29 am
Forsher wrote:I don't think you know what Dawson casting is...
Forsher wrote:Have you seen the movie? Because it's really odd for someone who has seen the film to ignore (assuming CTOAN didn't tell a pack of lies) that "Reed Richards is portrayed as fresh out of high school."
Forsher wrote:Instead you engaged with the actor-centric approach I took. Something you're calling "irrelevant" now. Not that it is irrelevant.
Forsher wrote:Trying to pass off a bunch of 30 year olds (late 20s at the youngest) as teens/very early twenties is just stupid...
Forsher wrote:and it very obviously didn't work (as per your picture).
by Cannot think of a name » Fri May 10, 2019 10:39 am
Forsher wrote:
Unknowns. I want a young FF.
by Lord Dominator » Fri May 10, 2019 11:37 am
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