MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Wait, are self-selecting surveys in some way unreliable and prone to attracting the ire of disgruntled minorities? I am shocked, I tell you, shocked.

[HC Eredivisie]

The Ultimate Edition!

(Though at least this one was satire)

Unfortunately, mine wasn't.

I'd watch both. Can we also have a Transformers cut without any civilian humans in it? Except for the part where Megan Fox runs towards the camera in RofF, that bit can stay.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Our Wolverine discussion is solved.

[Olthar]

Our Wolverine discussion is solved.

I'd watch it.

[Vassenor]

OK yeah the meninists are really upset that they can't review bomb the film now.

[Liriena]

OK yeah the meninists are really upset that they can't review bomb the film now.

Some people still don't get the "talk shit, get hit" principle. If you start blatantly brigading a website in a trolling attempt to manipulate public opinion against a cultural product that's not even publicly available for watching yet, people are gonna notice and they're going to take action to undermine your dipshittery. The internet may often be anarchic, but even online there can be consequences for abusing various platforms.

[Tarsonis]

OK yeah the meninists are really upset that they can't review bomb the film now.

Some people still don't get the "talk shit, get hit" principle. If you start blatantly brigading a website in a trolling attempt to manipulate public opinion against a cultural product that's not even publicly available for watching yet, people are gonna notice and they're going to take action to undermine your dipshittery. The internet may often be anarchic, but even online there can be consequences for abusing various platforms.

Except to them it's a victory. They made Rotten Tomato's change. They wielded power. Same thing with Netflix reviews after Amy Schumer's special.

The problem is now if the movie flops, the production team,they're gonna pull a Ghost Busters/TLJ and blame the flop on toxic masculinity/sexism.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Some people still don't get the "talk shit, get hit" principle. If you start blatantly brigading a website in a trolling attempt to manipulate public opinion against a cultural product that's not even publicly available for watching yet, people are gonna notice and they're going to take action to undermine your dipshittery. The internet may often be anarchic, but even online there can be consequences for abusing various platforms.

Except to them it's a victory. They made Rotten Tomato's change. They wielded power. Same thing with Netflix reviews after Amy Schumer's special.

The problem is now if the movie flops, the production team,they're gonna pull a Ghost Busters/TLJ and blame the flop on toxic masculinity/sexism.

And if does well, the toxic men and sexists will claim it's just Disney shills or SJWs or whatever. Intelligent discussion with those people was always going to be impossible, so just don't have it. And while you're at it, disregard all online audience scores, always, as a matter of course.

Also, 1.3 billion ain't a flop. Solo was a flop.

[Tarsonis]

Except to them it's a victory. They made Rotten Tomato's change. They wielded power. Same thing with Netflix reviews after Amy Schumer's special.

The problem is now if the movie flops, the production team,they're gonna pull a Ghost Busters/TLJ and blame the flop on toxic masculinity/sexism.

And if does well, the toxic men and sexists will claim it's just Disney shills or SJWs or whatever. Intelligent discussion with those people was always going to be impossible, so just don't have it. And while you're at it, disregard all online audience scores, always, as a matter of course.

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores. Which begs the question, is this really a campaign of incels and MRA's to torpedo the movie? Or are people really just not that excited about it? I'll be honest, I don't give a shit about Brie Larson's politics, and I'm still pretty meh on the movie. Like, I'm gonna see it, but out of duty to the franchise and the character context, not because I really care about Captain Marvel or think the movie looks great.

Also, 1.3 billion ain't a flop. Solo was a flop.

Point. But you catch my drift. TLJ definitely underperformed, and Solo's flop is an extension of that. It didn't have nearly so much to do with toxic masculinity as it did with that TLJ was a god awful movie, and nobody had confidence in Solo afterwards. In fact Solo is doing pretty well on netflix because it's an actually halfway decent movie.

[Liriena]

Some people still don't get the "talk shit, get hit" principle. If you start blatantly brigading a website in a trolling attempt to manipulate public opinion against a cultural product that's not even publicly available for watching yet, people are gonna notice and they're going to take action to undermine your dipshittery. The internet may often be anarchic, but even online there can be consequences for abusing various platforms.

Except to them it's a victory. They made Rotten Tomato's change. They wielded power. Same thing with Netflix reviews after Amy Schumer's special.

The problem is now if the movie flops, the production team,they're gonna pull a Ghost Busters/TLJ and blame the flop on toxic masculinity/sexism.

Two things:

1. TLJ is the 11th highest grossing film of all time.
2. Captain Marvel ain't gonna flop. It currently is 3rd in pre-sales out of the entire MCU, and early reactions where overwhelmingly positive.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

And if does well, the toxic men and sexists will claim it's just Disney shills or SJWs or whatever. Intelligent discussion with those people was always going to be impossible, so just don't have it. And while you're at it, disregard all online audience scores, always, as a matter of course.

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores. Which begs the question, is this really a campaign of incels and MRA's to torpedo the movie? Or are people really just not that excited about it? I'll be honest, I don't give a shit about Brie Larson's politics, and I'm still pretty meh on the movie. Like, I'm gonna see it, but out of duty to the franchise and the character context, not because I really care about Captain Marvel or think the movie looks great.

If by "more reliable" you mean that you generally find an online audience score is more likely to represent your feelings on a film, then fine. That's a matter of your own taste, which you're welcome to. I personally find the opposite.

But if you think that online, self-selecting surveys can be relied upon to accurately reflect the views of the general audience...well. Critic scores will always reflect what that particular set of critics thought (although that in itself may be a problem). Audience scores reflect only the feelings of those who feel like logging onto the site.

Do you really doubt that this was the work of manbabies? Would people who weren't excited about it really log onto a site to register how not excited they were for it? In such numbers that it apparently became the least anticipated one ever (despite apparently doing really well in pre-release ticket sales)?

And if that makes it sound like the "don't want to see" feature was stupid, that's because it basically was.

[Liriena]

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores.

Since when? And audience scores on what platforms? Because audience scores in websites like Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes have the issue of being essentially open-access online polls. Specially in cases like Captain Marvel and TLJ, that means that you're most likely looking, not at a sample that's truly representative of the general audience, or even the hardcore fandom, but rather at extremely online people who are engaging in some form of slacktivism.

[Tarsonis]

Except to them it's a victory. They made Rotten Tomato's change. They wielded power. Same thing with Netflix reviews after Amy Schumer's special.

The problem is now if the movie flops, the production team,they're gonna pull a Ghost Busters/TLJ and blame the flop on toxic masculinity/sexism.

Two things:

1. TLJ is the 11th highest grossing film of all time.*

*Without adjusting for inflation.
When you adjust for inflation, it actually made less than The Phantom Menace. (Domestically)

2. Captain Marvel ain't gonna flop. It currently is 3rd in pre-sales out of the entire MCU, and early reactions where overwhelmingly positive.

Awesome.

[Cannot think of a name]

And if does well, the toxic men and sexists will claim it's just Disney shills or SJWs or whatever. Intelligent discussion with those people was always going to be impossible, so just don't have it. And while you're at it, disregard all online audience scores, always, as a matter of course.

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores. Which begs the question, is this really a campaign of incels and MRA's to torpedo the movie? Or are people really just not that excited about it? I'll be honest, I don't give a shit about Brie Larson's politics, and I'm still pretty meh on the movie. Like, I'm gonna see it, but out of duty to the franchise and the character context, not because I really care about Captain Marvel or think the movie looks great.

Audience scores are more reliable than critic scores...how, exactly? What are they reliably doing? Making you enjoy a movie more or less? What are we measuring that we can call one 'more accurate'? Final box office? Really seems like more of a studio concern. Do you like a movie more or less based on its box office score? Is Ed Wood Burton's worst film because it only made like $6 million compared to Planet of the Apes that made $180 million?

Also, since I've dived way to deep into the pissy fan fucker bitch fest over Captain Marvel trying to pin down exactly what they're so bent out of shape about (and talking with someone on the Marvel team who has made the conniption fit so much sillier), they're already making excuses as to why it's going to be popular despite their little tantrum. Mostly because Avengers.

Some of the 'lolsux' is hilarious. "She's not even popular enough for an MCU movie..." Hahaahaa...welcome to the MCU, also known as 'all the characters that Marvel couldn't sell to anyone else at any price when they needed the money.' Fucking Iron Man wasn't considered a marque enough character when his movie was coming out, and that wasn't some pissy fanboy on the internet saying it, it was The Hollywood Reporter. I gave up looking for the actual article (maybe it was Variety...), but Honest Trailers did a whole bit about it. But now, ten years later and 20 films in, "Pffft, she ain't that great." Dudes. Squirrel Girl got a tv show. It didn't air, but it got made. But now 'she's not popular enough'...as if that hasn't been the MCU this whole time. Like Guardians of the Galaxy was a household name. Clydes.

Also, 1.3 billion ain't a flop. Solo was a flop.

Point. But you catch my drift. TLJ definitely underperformed, and Solo's flop is an extension of that. It didn't have nearly so much to do with toxic masculinity as it did with that TLJ was a god awful movie, and nobody had confidence in Solo afterwards. In fact Solo is doing pretty well on netflix because it's an actually halfway decent movie.

I'm not doing the size thing. I would suggest that TLJ and Solo were too close to each other and TLJ being poorly constructed (the clock meant nothing, the c and d stories were inconsequential and muddled the a and b stories, instead of addressing mysteries set up in TFA it took them all and went "nah.") had more to do with it than some dudes upset that they...something. Their complaints here are also a little fucking spotty.

Also, save for the stupid cameo at the end I loved Solo.

[Liriena]

In such numbers that it apparently became the least anticipated one ever (despite apparently doing really well in pre-release ticket sales)?

This really is the smoking gun right here: the actual, tangible, reliable numbers in terms of pre-sales and properly sampled polling speak of the movie being highly anticipated.

And, really, this is nothing like the Ghostbusters 2016 situation. That movie suffered from terrible, very confused marketing, for one, and the finished product was barely decent as a low-brow comedy (hence, the mildly positive critical reaction to it), but didn't offer much beyond that and ultimately ran counter to what audiences would have wanted and expected from a Ghostbusters reboot.

[Liriena]

Two things:

1. TLJ is the 11th highest grossing film of all time.*

*Without adjusting for inflation.
When you adjust for inflation, it actually made less than The Phantom Menace. (Domestically)

Well, yeah, adjusting for inflation a lot of amazing movies did worse than The Phantom Menace. Doesn't make them flops.

2. Captain Marvel ain't gonna flop. It currently is 3rd in pre-sales out of the entire MCU, and early reactions where overwhelmingly positive.

Awesome.

Yeah.

[Tarsonis]

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores.

Since when? And audience scores on what platforms? Because audience scores in websites like Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes have the issue of being essentially open-access online polls. Specially in cases like Captain Marvel and TLJ, that means that you're most likely looking, not at a sample that's truly representative of the general audience, or even the hardcore fandom, but rather at extremely online people who are engaging in some form of slacktivism.

https://screenrant.com/movies-critics-audience-split/

With the exception of School of Rock the above differentials are dead on balls accurate.

Yes they're technically open source polls, but I'm skeptical about the actual effect of slaktivism on Scores. I'm more willing to believe the effects are being over stated to excuse the low numbers. Granted Captain Marvel isn't even out yet, and there weren't many people clicking the "want to see" button to begin with so as it stands sure, but if the movie does flop despite current expectations, it'll be par for the course that they blame toxic masculinity in some capacity.

As for TLJ, nope, the 44% on Rotten Tomatoes is pretty accurate. Most viewers really did hate TLJ and it had nothing to do with ebul SJW's. It just wasn't a very good movie.


Here's actually a great article on the divide between critics and audiences:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/ ... 8e010474e6

[Tarsonis]

*Without adjusting for inflation.
When you adjust for inflation, it actually made less than The Phantom Menace. (Domestically)

Well, yeah, adjusting for inflation a lot of amazing movies did worse than The Phantom Menace. Doesn't make them flops.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Sorry, I know flop is an actual industry term for a movie that makes less than it costs to produce. But I really use the term haphazardly for any movie that doesn't meet or exceed expectations.

[Liriena]

As for TLJ, nope, the 44% on Rotten Tomatoes is pretty accurate. Most viewers really did hate TLJ and it had nothing to do with ebul SJW's. It just wasn't a very good movie.

Is that why it got an A on CinemaScore?

Here's actually a great article on the divide between critics and audiences:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/ ... 8e010474e6

That is an interesting piece.

[Tarsonis]

Except audience scores are generally more reliable than critic scores. Which begs the question, is this really a campaign of incels and MRA's to torpedo the movie? Or are people really just not that excited about it? I'll be honest, I don't give a shit about Brie Larson's politics, and I'm still pretty meh on the movie. Like, I'm gonna see it, but out of duty to the franchise and the character context, not because I really care about Captain Marvel or think the movie looks great.

Audience scores are more reliable than critic scores...how, exactly? What are they reliably doing? Making you enjoy a movie more or less? What are we measuring that we can call one 'more accurate'? Final box office? Really seems like more of a studio concern. Do you like a movie more or less based on its box office score? Is Ed Wood Burton's worst film because it only made like $6 million compared to Planet of the Apes that made $180 million?

Also, since I've dived way to deep into the pissy fan fucker bitch fest over Captain Marvel trying to pin down exactly what they're so bent out of shape about (and talking with someone on the Marvel team who has made the conniption fit so much sillier), they're already making excuses as to why it's going to be popular despite their little tantrum. Mostly because Avengers.

Some of the 'lolsux' is hilarious. "She's not even popular enough for an MCU movie..." Hahaahaa...welcome to the MCU, also known as 'all the characters that Marvel couldn't sell to anyone else at any price when they needed the money.' Fucking Iron Man wasn't considered a marque enough character when his movie was coming out, and that wasn't some pissy fanboy on the internet saying it, it was The Hollywood Reporter. I gave up looking for the actual article (maybe it was Variety...), but Honest Trailers did a whole bit about it. But now, ten years later and 20 films in, "Pffft, she ain't that great." Dudes. Squirrel Girl got a tv show. It didn't air, but it got made. But now 'she's not popular enough'...as if that hasn't been the MCU this whole time. Like Guardians of the Galaxy was a household name. Clydes.

More reliable in that the average movie goer is going to like the movie or find it enjoyable, compared to the critic score.

There's reliable constant of movies with high Critic score and low audience scores, and vice versa.

Point. But you catch my drift. TLJ definitely underperformed, and Solo's flop is an extension of that. It didn't have nearly so much to do with toxic masculinity as it did with that TLJ was a god awful movie, and nobody had confidence in Solo afterwards. In fact Solo is doing pretty well on netflix because it's an actually halfway decent movie.

I'm not doing the size thing. I would suggest that TLJ and Solo were too close to each other and TLJ being poorly constructed (the clock meant nothing, the c and d stories were inconsequential and muddled the a and b stories, instead of addressing mysteries set up in TFA it took them all and went "nah.") had more to do with it than some dudes upset that they...something. Their complaints here are also a little fucking spotty.

Also, save for the stupid cameo at the end I loved Solo.

Don't disagree with anything here (except the cameo, I dug it). TLJ was a poor movie (for far more reasons than have been stated) and it dragged Solo down with it. It's simply more evident with Solo because people had to actually spend money on TLJ to be let down. I mean I saw it opening day, and I actually dug it the first time I watched it because they actually did a WW2 throwback space battle like the OT's were, and the rest of the movie could do no wrong after that. But the more I thought about it and watched it again, the more the facade fell away. It's easily the poorest of the movies, and that's saying something.

Solo was fantastic, a throwback to what the OT used to be like.

[Tarsonis]

As for TLJ, nope, the 44% on Rotten Tomatoes is pretty accurate. Most viewers really did hate TLJ and it had nothing to do with ebul SJW's. It just wasn't a very good movie.

Is that why it got an A on CinemaScore?

Exit polls, always reliable am I right?

As I said in my above post, even I would have told you on opening night that it was good. I totally geeked out over the opening space battle, and I was 6 for the next 12 hours.

[Liriena]

but if the movie does flop despite current expectations, it'll be par for the course that they blame toxic masculinity in some capacity.

Tbh, given that it would be Marvel's first actual flop, and nothing points to it being a technically troubled or incompetent film... yeah, if it did flop, "toxic masculinity" insofar as extremely online dorks falling for the "anti-SJW" grift to the point of boycotting a cultural product they might have otherwise enjoyed would be a partial explanation.

Although, again, I think it's extremely unlikely that it will flop. I mean, the imbeciles of Return Of Kings, whose whole shtick is unironic toxic masculinity, bragged about actively influencing their readers against TFA and (dubiously) calculated that their coverage caused the film a box office loss of, like, $4 million. Even if true, a repeat of that number with Captain Marvel would be peanuts, given that the lowest grossing film in the MCU was the Edward Norton Hulk one with over $260 million and that was long before the MCU had the firmly established hype of today.

[Liriena]

Is that why it got an A on CinemaScore?

Exit polls, always reliable am I right?

As I said in my above post, even I would have told you on opening night that it was good. I totally geeked out over the opening space battle, and I was 6 for the next 12 hours.

I actually still love it over a year after myself, even though I can acknowledge that it's flawed, specially compared to TFA.

But yeah, I'd say exit polls are fairly reliable if we're talking about general movie audiences, specially compared to an audience score on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic.

[Liriena]

At the risk of turning the MCU thread into a Star Wars thread, I'm just gonna say this: I like TLJ far more than I liked Rogue One, but I still think that TFA is the superior post-Lucas Star Wars movie.

Solo, though... I feel so bad for Ron Howard, man. Solo is immensely entertaining, the filmmaking is consistently solid, and it's got some really great audiovisual design for a movie with such a troubled and rushed production. It didn't deserve to bomb, even if it was the one Star Wars movie I actively didn't want to see made.

[Tarsonis]

Exit polls, always reliable am I right?

As I said in my above post, even I would have told you on opening night that it was good. I totally geeked out over the opening space battle, and I was 6 for the next 12 hours.

I actually still love it over a year after myself, even though I can acknowledge that it's flawed, specially compared to TFA.

But yeah, I'd say exit polls are fairly reliable if we're talking about general movie audiences, specially compared to an audience score on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic.

Well Of course you'd like it, you're an ebul SJW. I kid I kid

I wouldn't. Cinemascore states their sample pool is about 400 per movie. That might be more reliable on a standalone movie (Like the Hangover which only they got right) but on a Franchise movie, especially one as big as Star Wars, I'd say it's much less reliable. Too much fan blinders on an opening night like that. Like unless the movie was Ciran literally taking a shit on a bunch of Star Wars stuff for two hours (as opposed to figuratively as it was) it would poll well regardless.