The Arrowverse Thread

[Anywhere Else But Here]

For fucks sake, Flash.

You went and killed the one positive thing this show had. Oliver Queen would have killed his ass. He'd have whined about it, but he'd have arrowed that bitch.

I don't buy Ralph being dead for a second. He'll be back by the end of the finale.

[Cannot think of a name]

For fucks sake, Flash.

You went and killed the one positive thing this show had. Oliver Queen would have killed his ass. He'd have whined about it, but he'd have arrowed that bitch.

I don't buy Ralph being dead for a second. He'll be back by the end of the finale.

Not if they have balls. They may not have balls.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I don't buy Ralph being dead for a second. He'll be back by the end of the finale.

Not if they have balls. They may not have balls.

I don't think leaving him dead is ballsy. What's the message there? That mercy is stupid and gets you killed? Flash isn't that grimdark.

[Ameriganastan]

An entire episode focused on Diaz. What fun that was...

[Cannot think of a name]

Not if they have balls. They may not have balls.

I don't think leaving him dead is ballsy. What's the message there? That mercy is stupid and gets you killed? Flash isn't that grimdark.

No, that principles matter even if there is a cost. If the message is "stick to your principles and eventually consequences will undo themselves" that's a shitty message. As soon as someone sticks to their guns and the costs don't undo themselves they'll feel betrayed. The truth is that Allen is right, people with their abilities killing is the easy choice. You don't underline that the choice is hard by undoing consequences. But this show won't have the courage of its convictions and will create the idea that if you do the right thing everything works out magically including saving the one bus meta that they managed to know longer than two episodes. That's a fairy tale move, but not a balls one.

[Anxiety Cafe]

This week, in the Arrowverse:

Better than most recent episodes. Not good, but I think the show might be able to redeem itself next season, if they give Winn more than two seconds of screentime and try to expand on Olsen as the Guardian (even though his whole vigilante thing makes no sense).

Good episode, overall. They're definitely bringing Ralph back though, no doubt about it.

Boring, way too politicized. Felt like they were just smushing everything instead of spreading it out over a couple episodes or so.

Not worth mentioning. It was that bad.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I don't think leaving him dead is ballsy. What's the message there? That mercy is stupid and gets you killed? Flash isn't that grimdark.

No, that principles matter even if there is a cost. If the message is "stick to your principles and eventually consequences will undo themselves" that's a shitty message. As soon as someone sticks to their guns and the costs don't undo themselves they'll feel betrayed. The truth is that Allen is right, people with their abilities killing is the easy choice. You don't underline that the choice is hard by undoing consequences. But this show won't have the courage of its convictions and will create the idea that if you do the right thing everything works out magically including saving the one bus meta that they managed to know longer than two episodes. That's a fairy tale move, but not a balls one.

I don't think Barry said that the choice was hard. I believe he said that there's no need for people with abilities to kill. Which may be fair enough when facing ordinary crooks, but when facing other metas it's flatly contradicted by the past three season villains, all of whom have ultimately been stopped by death or sort-of-death, and this episode. No one would say that a policeman should put his own and civilian lives at risk trying to take out a gunman using only pepper spray or a baton, pretty talk about principles and costs or not.

[Cannot think of a name]

No, that principles matter even if there is a cost. If the message is "stick to your principles and eventually consequences will undo themselves" that's a shitty message. As soon as someone sticks to their guns and the costs don't undo themselves they'll feel betrayed. The truth is that Allen is right, people with their abilities killing is the easy choice. You don't underline that the choice is hard by undoing consequences. But this show won't have the courage of its convictions and will create the idea that if you do the right thing everything works out magically including saving the one bus meta that they managed to know longer than two episodes. That's a fairy tale move, but not a balls one.

I don't think Barry said that the choice was hard. I believe he said that there's no need for people with abilities to kill. Which may be fair enough when facing ordinary crooks, but when facing other metas it's flatly contradicted by the past three season villains, all of whom have ultimately been stopped by death or sort-of-death, and this episode. No one would say that a policeman should put his own and civilian lives at risk trying to take out a gunman using only pepper spray or a baton, pretty talk about principles and costs or not.

It was literally framed in Ralph phrasing it as 'the hard choice' and Barry expressly countered that very notion. And they were also expressly talking about a meta. But whatever. We disagree. I think bringing Ralph back undermines the message and makes it a promise reality cannot keep. You think that if they're not rewarded for their principles by having the costs removed then it undermines the message. It's a show about a guy who can run real fast and his super friends. We can disagree.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I don't think Barry said that the choice was hard. I believe he said that there's no need for people with abilities to kill. Which may be fair enough when facing ordinary crooks, but when facing other metas it's flatly contradicted by the past three season villains, all of whom have ultimately been stopped by death or sort-of-death, and this episode. No one would say that a policeman should put his own and civilian lives at risk trying to take out a gunman using only pepper spray or a baton, pretty talk about principles and costs or not.

It was literally framed in Ralph phrasing it as 'the hard choice' and Barry expressly countered that very notion. And they were also expressly talking about a meta. But whatever. We disagree. I think bringing Ralph back undermines the message and makes it a promise reality cannot keep. You think that if they're not rewarded for their principles by having the costs removed then it undermines the message. It's a show about a guy who can run real fast and his super friends. We can disagree.

Ah, fair enough. I'd forgotten the wording.

It's not so much that it undermines the message as it a) kills off just about the only thing that's making Flash not shit for the sake of b) taking a tone that really doesn't serve this show well. Flash is at its best, IMO, when its a mix of silly and heartwarming. A depressing message, be it "principles have a cost" or "mercy is stupid" (neither of which are themes I'm opposed to seeing explored in other works) is antithetical to that.

[Ameriganastan]

Not worth mentioning. It was that bad.

No, mention it. That episode was like 3 train-wrecks at once.

Like 1 scene of the guy the effing show is titled after.
Relationship drama.
The umpteenth mention of Wild Bitch being in the hospital.
The Quadrant being easier to infiltrate than a freaking local police department.
The Quadrant itself. Which was never mentioned before this episode, but is apparently some Illuminati level crime syndicate.
Diaz and his bland backstory.

I can go on.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I've not watched the latest Arrow and I'm not going to. I realised I'd long since reached the point where I regarded watching as a chore to be got through. I might dip back in for the finale, and of course I'll watch crossovers, but apart from that, I'm done.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Not worth mentioning. It was that bad.

No, mention it. That episode was like 3 train-wrecks at once.

Like 1 scene of the guy the effing show is titled after.
Relationship drama.
The umpteenth mention of Wild Bitch being in the hospital.
The Quadrant being easier to infiltrate than a freaking local police department.
The Quadrant itself. Which was never mentioned before this episode, but is apparently some Illuminati level crime syndicate.
Diaz and his bland backstory.

I can go on.

The Quadrant seems to be build off under the assumptions that they never touch Star City, since Diaz really needs to go to Bludhaven.

I've not watched the latest Arrow and I'm not going to. I realised I'd long since reached the point where I regarded watching as a chore to be got through. I might dip back in for the finale, and of course I'll watch crossovers, but apart from that, I'm done.

And yet they have been renewed for Season 7.

[Ameriganastan]

Thanks, Flash. Black Siren is annoying enough in her own show, but make me suffer her even blander Nazi counterpart. Appreciate it...

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Thanks, Flash. Black Siren is annoying enough in her own show, but make me suffer her even blander Nazi counterpart. Appreciate it...

Appreciate the efforts. Also limiting budgets for more people by using one of the regular casts and put her into a different version of her current role.

[Anxiety Cafe]

Thanks, Flash. Black Siren is annoying enough in her own show, but make me suffer her even blander Nazi counterpart. Appreciate it...

I think they were doing it in the hopes it'd increase popularity for Black Siren, an attempt to save Arrow. I still don't know why they renewed that mess.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Thanks, Flash. Black Siren is annoying enough in her own show, but make me suffer her even blander Nazi counterpart. Appreciate it...

I think they were doing it in the hopes it'd increase popularity for Black Siren, an attempt to save Arrow. I still don't know why they renewed that mess.

Perhaps because it is still popular and gave profits. I mean, Smallville was renewed till Season 10, and I heard it went downhill from Season 6 or 7.

[Anxiety Cafe]

I think they were doing it in the hopes it'd increase popularity for Black Siren, an attempt to save Arrow. I still don't know why they renewed that mess.

Perhaps because it is still popular and gave profits. I mean, Smallville was renewed till Season 10, and I heard it went downhill from Season 6 or 7.

True, although I think at least a substantial amount of viewers must only watch it for the continuity and crossovers, even though it isn't necessary. At least that's why I've continued watching.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Perhaps because it is still popular and gave profits. I mean, Smallville was renewed till Season 10, and I heard it went downhill from Season 6 or 7.

True, although I think at least a substantial amount of viewers must only watch it for the continuity and crossovers, even though it isn't necessary. At least that's why I've continued watching.

Arrowverse has the advantage of crossovers, tbh. Smallville didn't, and while relying on other heroes and villains it can take, at the end we never see any Batman or Wonder Woman characters. We do have Aquaman, Cyborg, Flash, Green Arrow, and Superman. But the Flash is not Barry and the Superman is never really Superman since he never got the uniform.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

All right, seriously, wtf is going on with Laurel? Why do they insist on putting her everywhere? Is there some section of the fanbase that adores her? A massive, silent majority? Is Katie Cassidy screwing some executive? Why must they put her in everything?

Mercifully, she didn't talk much in that episode, but we still had to put up with her shrill superpowers, which are almost as irritating as she is.

Anyway, Supergirl and the Flash were both just fine.

[Ameriganastan]

All right, seriously, wtf is going on with Laurel? Why do they insist on putting her everywhere? Is there some section of the fanbase that adores her? A massive, silent majority? Is Katie Cassidy screwing some executive? Why must they put her in everything?

Mercifully, she didn't talk much in that episode, but we still had to put up with her shrill superpowers, which are almost as irritating as she is.

Anyway, Supergirl and the Flash were both just fine.

Hey now. Laurel may be a shitty character, but there's no need to imply her screentime is the result of her actress screwing someone. That's that rude.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

All right, seriously, wtf is going on with Laurel? Why do they insist on putting her everywhere? Is there some section of the fanbase that adores her? A massive, silent majority? Is Katie Cassidy screwing some executive? Why must they put her in everything?

Mercifully, she didn't talk much in that episode, but we still had to put up with her shrill superpowers, which are almost as irritating as she is.

Anyway, Supergirl and the Flash were both just fine.

Hey now. Laurel may be a shitty character, but there's no need to imply her screentime is the result of her actress screwing someone. That's that rude.

If she should happen to see my post, I'll gladly apologise to her.

[Juristonia]

I never really got the appeal either.
She doesn't seem particularly popular with the fanbase in general, but they just keep bringing her back and shoving her in everything anyway.

[Ameriganastan]

The stuff with Anitoly this episode was more interesting than the entirety of this Diaz plot. Mostly cause he's actually an interesting character. But the rest...

For what seems like the 8th time this season, it's the latest edition of "Hey, he's probably the Green Arrow". Yay...

[Ameriganastan]

Well this has promise.

Marlize just stole head bad guy position from DeVoe. She is way more interesting than he is. Here's hoping they do something with it.

And holy crap, that weird recurring girl is a speedster!

[Juristonia]

If that means we get more Kim Engelbrecht on screen, I'm completely on board.
Because of reasons.