The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[Arvanon and Vortes]

Do you get to NationStates very often? Oh what am I saying, of course you don't.

[Orenton]

My favorite Skyrim Hold?

Haafingar, of course. It's the richest, safest and cleanest place.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Do you get to NationStates very often? Oh what am I saying, of course you don't.

XD

My favorite Skyrim Hold?

Haafingar, of course. It's the richest, safest and cleanest place.

EW....the capital is the best

[Pilarcraft]

I'm stuck between Whiterun, Eastmarch and the Rift for my favorite.
Whiterun because of its nice people, Rift because of its everlasting autumn, and Eastmarch because of its enviromental beauty and overall rich history. oh. and they also host the rebellion, so that's a plus.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

I'm stuck between Whiterun, Eastmarch and the Rift for my favorite.
Whiterun because of its nice people, Rift because of its everlasting autumn, and Eastmarch because of its enviromental beauty and overall rich history. oh. and they also host the rebellion, so that's a plus.

Ah, I prefer the Empire. They're not as horrible to Argonians.

[Pilarcraft]

I'm stuck between Whiterun, Eastmarch and the Rift for my favorite.
Whiterun because of its nice people, Rift because of its everlasting autumn, and Eastmarch because of its enviromental beauty and overall rich history. oh. and they also host the rebellion, so that's a plus.

Ah, I prefer the Empire. They're not as horrible to Argonians.

I could start an argument on how the treatment of Argonians in Windhelm is not the result of poor Leadership but malevolent exploitation by a businessman who happens to live in the stormcloak capital, but that's really irrelevant. I'd say the Empire has, overall, been more horrible to Argonians than Stormcloaks have ever been. I can't exactly say if the Medes could do any better on that front, but that's mostly because Argonians seceded before Medes got the chance.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

Ah, I prefer the Empire. They're not as horrible to Argonians.

I could start an argument on how the treatment of Argonians in Windhelm is not the result of poor Leadership but malevolent exploitation by a businessman who happens to live in the stormcloak capital, but that's really irrelevant. I'd say the Empire has, overall, been more horrible to Argonians than Stormcloaks have ever been. I can't exactly say if the Medes could do any better on that front, but that's mostly because Argonians seceded before Medes got the chance.

You're certainly right that the Empire has committed terrible atrocities towards all kinds of races, but you have to remember, when push comes to shove, Ulfric's policies seem to be the ones causing the most division in Windhelm. The Grey Quarter is also a prime example of Ulfric either doing little to help or actively oppressing the minorities in his city, and while I could agree that the Argonians on the docks are a direct result of the businesses in Windhelm, the fact that such policies are allowed to flourish and that Argonians are not even allowed inside the city (save for le covert Dovahkiin approx. 1/12 of the time...) is a direct result, yet again, of Ulfric's apathy or Ulfric's malevolence.

[Pilarcraft]

I could start an argument on how the treatment of Argonians in Windhelm is not the result of poor Leadership but malevolent exploitation by a businessman who happens to live in the stormcloak capital, but that's really irrelevant. I'd say the Empire has, overall, been more horrible to Argonians than Stormcloaks have ever been. I can't exactly say if the Medes could do any better on that front, but that's mostly because Argonians seceded before Medes got the chance.

You're certainly right that the Empire has committed terrible atrocities towards all kinds of races, but you have to remember, when push comes to shove, Ulfric's policies seem to be the ones causing the most division in Windhelm. The Grey Quarter is also a prime example of Ulfric either doing little to help or actively oppressing the minorities in his city, and while I could agree that the Argonians on the docks are a direct result of the businesses in Windhelm, the fact that such policies are allowed to flourish and that Argonians are not even allowed inside the city (save for le covert Dovahkiin approx. 1/12 of the time...) is a direct result, yet again, of Ulfric's apathy or Ulfric's malevolence.

to be fair, The Hlaalu neither pay tax, nor (as per lore. the game doesn't follow this sometimes) allow guards to patrol the Grey Quarter, nor (this one is pretty much canon) trade with the other people in the city. Expecting Ulfric to help a region that refuses to be part of his city is kinda ooc, especially when you consider the fact it's nords letting dunmer refugees stay in their cities (Which is a completely OOC action, from what we've seen of the relations of the two races)
and, to be fair, it might be Ulfric's actions (at least, if you believe the Skooma-addicted Argonian who starts talking after the guy dies in a violent battle. even though he's still not allowed in the city afterwards) that keep the Dunmer and Argonians separate, but from their relations, the alternative would be In-xaleel fanatics and angry First-generation Dunmer refugees get into fights daily (Which is why I call bullshit on the argonian's claim. if Dunmer refugees from Hlaalu and Argonian Immigrants were allowed to stay in a place that close to each other, there would be blood. note that the dunmer in the rest of skyrim aren't refugees, but immigrants)

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

This honestly shouldn't be an argument anymore.

Ulfric is weakening the Empire and is paving the way for another successful Dominion invasion. It's as simple as that. His Stormcloaks can fight one (1!) of the Empire's 18 Legions into what's barely a standstill, with the rest of the Empire's troops at the borders of the Dominion.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

This honestly shouldn't be an argument anymore.

Ulfric is weakening the Empire and is paving the way for another successful Dominion invasion. It's as simple as that. His Stormcloaks can fight one (1!) of the Empire's 18 Legions into what's barely a standstill, with the rest of the Empire's troops at the borders of the Dominion.

Yeah, this is how I see the issue. In the longer term, the Empire is more sustainable. Once the imminent threat of an Aldmeri invasion is staved off, then I see no reason why Skyrim cannot be independent, or at least semi-independent.

[Pilarcraft]

This honestly shouldn't be an argument anymore.

Ulfric is weakening the Empire and is paving the way for another successful Dominion invasion. It's as simple as that. His Stormcloaks can fight one (1!) of the Empire's 18 Legions into what's barely a standstill, with the rest of the Empire's troops at the borders of the Dominion.

There are many arguments to prove that the Dominion wouldn't succeed in conquering Skyrim.
Canonically, Nords Outnumber elves at least 12 to 1. and the average Nord is a fighter, unlike the average Elf.
and to take Skyrim, the Dominion would necessarily need to take down ever single other province first. Morrowind, High Rock, and Hammerfell are all hostile to The Dominion, and the Concordat doesn't allow the movement of large troops through Cyrodiil (because it'd be a sign of war)
Even if the Dominion had taken every other province first, they'd need to get into Skyrim, a land only accessible by narrow, treacherous mountain passes (that are very easily defensible, and not at all easy to move through.), and the climate itself is like, the antithesis to the Altmer and the Bosmer (they're all weak to any form of weather that isn't as nice as Summerset Isle's climate)
that is, unless they take a naval route. which means they'd need to fight the superior redguard fleet in the Western Sea, and the even more superior nordic fleet in the sea of ghosts.
If the Dominion try to attack skyrim, they'll lose almost definitely.
that is, if they even can mobilize an army for that. small Gestapo inquisitions like the ones in Skyrim is one thing, the numbers required for an all out invasion is another.
Also, where's your source for the 18 legions (I mean, cyrodiil definitely has more than ten, but many were decimated in the great war and some are stationed in High Rock)

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

Canonically, Nords Outnumber elves at least 12 to 1.

There aren't any official numbers of populations.

and the average Nord is a fighter, unlike the average Elf.

The Altmer have an entire social caste of warriors, as well as the most powerful mages (together with the Telvanni Dunmer) on Nirn.

and to take Skyrim, the Dominion would necessarily need to take down ever single other province first. Morrowind, High Rock, and Hammerfell are all hostile to The Dominion, and the Concordat doesn't allow the movement of large troops through Cyrodiil (because it'd be a sign of war)

To go to Skyrim, the Dominion needs Cyrodiil first. That's all they need. Cyrodiil would also put up the biggest fight, because it's host to the largest unified military force bar the Dominion itself in all of Tamriel. Morrowind doesn't have any official stance against the Dominion and although they likely are hostile, the Dunmer have never really cared much about conflict outside of their homeland.

Even if the Dominion had taken every other province first, they'd need to get into Skyrim, a land only accessible by narrow, treacherous mountain passes (that are very easily defensible, and not at all easy to move through.), and the climate itself is like, the antithesis to the Altmer and the Bosmer (they're all weak to any form of weather that isn't as nice as Summerset Isle's climate)

The Altmer have a city made of crystal that's up in one of the highest mountain ranges around. They're probably fairly resistant to the climate. Not as much as the Nords, sure, but there's nothing indicating that they have a weakness to any sort of weather more than your average dude does.

that is, unless they take a naval route. which means they'd need to fight the superior redguard fleet in the Western Sea,

If the Redguard even care, or can put up a fight. The Dominion fought in Hammerfell for years and wreaked havoc.

and the even more superior nordic fleet in the sea of ghosts.

The Nords don't have any sort of naval power at all. Redguard and Altmer have always been the naval forces of the setting. The Redguard are known as some of the best pirates around. The Altmer have waged war against the Maormer since practically the beginning of recorded history and have always won: their fleets have also fought against the Sload and actually won.

If the Dominion try to attack skyrim, they'll lose almost definitely.

They will almost definitely win.

that is, if they even can mobilize an army for that. small Gestapo inquisitions like the ones in Skyrim is one thing, the numbers required for an all out invasion is another.

The Dominion managed to sneakily raise enough men to form armies that invaded the Empire and almost burned it to the ground.

Also, where's your source for the 18 legions (I mean, cyrodiil definitely has more than ten, but many were decimated in the civil war and some are stationed in High Rock)

There are 20 legions that are referred to throughout the games and there may well be more. Two were killed in the Great War. None have been decimated in the Civil War. The Imperial Legion in Skyrim is one of the Legions of the Empire, and it is also the only one. It is undersupplied and is recruiting locally - something the Legion hardly ever does because most of its ranks are usually pulled from Colovia.

The Imperial military presence in Skyrim is rather minimal compared to what they have under their banners in total.

Similarly, the Dominion's military might is far larger than you see in the game as well, for the simple reason that the Dominion's only presence is a small group of not!CIA officers working from an embassy in a backwater province.

[Pilarcraft]

and the average Nord is a fighter, unlike the average Elf.

The Altmer have an entire social caste of warriors, as well as the most powerful mages (together with the Telvanni Dunmer) on Nirn.

historically speaking, Mages don't make any difference in a war. the Great war itself was won by superior naval strategy and mostly taking the enemy by surprise. That aside, the only times magic has really made a difference in a war has been when both sides were mages (take the Night of Green fire for example.)
throughout Tamriel's History, almost every single war has been won by the side with superior melee. Nords have superior melee.

and to take Skyrim, the Dominion would necessarily need to take down ever single other province first. Morrowind, High Rock, and Hammerfell are all hostile to The Dominion, and the Concordat doesn't allow the movement of large troops through Cyrodiil (because it'd be a sign of war)

To go to Skyrim, the Dominion needs Cyrodiil first. That's all they need. Cyrodiil would also put up the biggest fight, because it's host to the largest unified military force bar the Dominion itself in all of Tamriel. Morrowind doesn't have any official stance against the Dominion and although they likely are hostile, the Dunmer have never really cared much about conflict outside of their homeland.

The Pale Pass is literally the dumbest possible route the Dominion could take. it's extremely treacherous and the climate is simply too bad for the Altmer to handle. that aside, Historically speaking (as much as history can be compared to in tamriel) as well as strategically, for a medieval setting where Defensible airships haven't yet been introduced as a common military vessel, defending a Keep is simply easier than taking it. All nords would need to do would be block the pass, and make sure it remains blocked on their side. that's it.

Even if the Dominion had taken every other province first, they'd need to get into Skyrim, a land only accessible by narrow, treacherous mountain passes (that are very easily defensible, and not at all easy to move through.), and the climate itself is like, the antithesis to the Altmer and the Bosmer (they're all weak to any form of weather that isn't as nice as Summerset Isle's climate)

The Altmer have a city made of crystal that's up in one of the highest mountain ranges around. They're probably fairly resistant to the climate. Not as much as the Nords, sure, but there's nothing indicating that they have a weakness to any sort of weather more than your average dude does.

Okay this is just stretching it. Canonically, the Altmer have always been the most vulnerable race to almost all extreme climates. The Cold of Skyrim is simply too much for the average Altmer. that's like, canon. Compared to other races, Especially nords, the Altmer are too weak for Skyrim's climate.

that is, unless they take a naval route. which means they'd need to fight the superior redguard fleet in the Western Sea,

If the Redguard even care, or can put up a fight. The Dominion fought in Hammerfell for years and wreaked havoc.

The Altmer fought the Redguards on land. fact of the matter is, Redguards are too hostile, canonically, to //not// care.

and the even more superior nordic fleet in the sea of ghosts.

The Nords don't have any sort of naval power at all. Redguard and Altmer have always been the naval forces of the setting. The Redguard are known as some of the best pirates around. The Altmer have waged war against the Maormer since practically the beginning of recorded history and have always won: their fleets have also fought against the Sload and actually won.

First off, The only time the Altmer in modern age, aka post Third Era, have ever faced anyone in the sea would be the Great War, in Lake Rumare and along the Niben, where they lost to the Imperial Fleets. ironically, the Empire isn't known for its fleet. or skill in the Sea. and neither are the Altmer.
Canonically speaking, Nords and redguards are. Redguards have dominated the Western Ocean, and the Nords control the Sea of Ghosts. the Altmer simply can't survive that much cold. neither could their predecessors, the Aldmer (and the Ayleids) which is why they never attacked skyrim after Nords Took it.

If the Dominion try to attack skyrim, they'll lose almost definitely.

They will almost definitely win.

Um. no. the only way for them to win is if the Tes VI lore pulls something unbelievable like an airship fleet (like those that the Dwemer apparently had).
that is to say, the Aldmeri Dominion could just barricade Skyrim and wait for the nords to just die off. but I don't think they'd have the patience for that.

that is, if they even can mobilize an army for that. small Gestapo inquisitions like the ones in Skyrim is one thing, the numbers required for an all out invasion is another.

The Dominion managed to sneakily raise enough men to form armies that invaded the Empire and almost burned it to the ground.

first off, The Dominion never got anywhere north of Imperial City. Bruma and Cheydinhal were all controlled by the Empire from the start to finish. Chorrol was so secure that the Dominion couldn't even check and find the hidden legion in it before the Battle of Red Ring. The Dominion didn't "almost burn the empire to the ground", the majority of their atrocities were concentrated in the Imperial City.
and more importantly, there was nothing "sneaky" about the raising of their army. if you read "A Concise Account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion" or "Rising Threat", it is essentially clear that the only ones not aware of the Dominion's rising threat were the Mede Emperors, mostly because they were busy first consolidating their power in Cyrodiil, then with Skyrim, High rock and Hammerfell, and were too inexperienced in politics as well as ruling to find out that three traditionally supremacist states seceding and calling themselves Aldmeri Dominion will probably mean war.

Also, where's your source for the 18 legions (I mean, cyrodiil definitely has more than ten, but many were decimated in the greatcivil war and some are stationed in High Rock)

There are 20 legions that are referred to throughout the games and there may well be more. Two were killed in the Great War. None have been decimated in the Civil War. The Imperial Legion in Skyrim is one of the Legions of the Empire, and it is also the only one. It is undersupplied and is recruiting locally - something the Legion hardly ever does because most of its ranks are usually pulled from Colovia.

The Imperial military presence in Skyrim is rather minimal compared to what they have under their banners in total.

Similarly, the Dominion's military might is far larger than you see in the game as well, for the simple reason that the Dominion's only presence is a small group of not!CIA officers working from an embassy in a backwater province.

First off, sorry. I meant Great War. that aside, no. the Great War destroyed the majority of their legions. if they had more than 12 legions, they would send more in the Battle of Red Ring.
Based on the aforementioned book, only three legions were in that battle (one would be led by "the Emperor" (read: the Forgotten Hero), another by General Jonna (This one in Skyrim. when they left, the Reachmen declared reach independent yadda yadda yadda), and the last one led by General Decianus. On the Battle of Imperial City (where Titus was forced to escape to Skyrim), two legions were destroyed. by the end of the Great War, five of the Legions were too low in numbers to work.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

historically speaking, Mages don't make any difference in a war. the Great war itself was won by superior naval strategy and mostly taking the enemy by surprise. That aside, the only times magic has really made a difference in a war has been when both sides were mages (take the Night of Green fire for example.)
throughout Tamriel's History, almost every single war has been won by the side with superior melee. Nords have superior melee.

No and no.

Magic has been key to the victory in almost all great conflicts. Tiber Septim only managed to form the Third Empire because of magic. Battlemages allowed for an entire Legion to cross a sea on foot, and he used the Numidium to conquer the Summerset Isles - a magical, time-breaking machine.

Combine this with the superior equipment, training, and magical abilities of the average Altmeri soldier and you have a far superior force, be it in melee, at range, or when employing magic.

The Pale Pass is literally the dumbest possible route the Dominion could take. it's extremely treacherous and the climate is simply too bad for the Altmer to handle. that aside, Historically speaking (as much as history can be compared to in tamriel) as well as strategically, for a medieval setting where Defensible airships haven't yet been introduced as a common military vessel, defending a Keep is simply easier than taking it. All nords would need to do would be block the pass, and make sure it remains blocked on their side. that's it.

The Altmer have been known to use Alinor Sunbirds, which are basically spaceships. They have a massive navy at their disposal and superior ground forces. The Nords could try to block it but there's plenty of ways for the Dominion to get in if they want to, even without trying to break through a mountain blockade.

Okay this is just stretching it. Canonically, the Altmer have always been the most vulnerable race to almost all extreme climates. The Cold of Skyrim is simply too much for the average Altmer. that's like, canon. Compared to other races, Especially nords, the Altmer are too weak for Skyrim's climate.

No? It might be in your Nordic power fantasies, but it's simply not true. Altmer are the most vulnerable to magic. The weather and the climate aren't magic (although they can obviously be influenced by them - as Altmeri mages happen to do quite often in Summerset!). Even in Skyrim, we see plenty of Altmer that manage to live and move about Skyrim just fine.

First off, The only time the Altmer in modern age, aka post Third Era, have ever faced anyone in the sea would be the Great War, in Lake Rumare and along the Niben, where they lost to the Imperial Fleets. ironically, the Empire isn't known for its fleet. or skill in the Sea. and neither are the Altmer.
Canonically speaking, Nords and redguards are. Redguards have dominated the Western Ocean, and the Nords control the Sea of Ghosts. the Altmer simply can't survive that much cold. neither could their predecessors, the Aldmer (and the Ayleids) which is why they never attacked skyrim after Nords Took it.

The Sea of Ghosts isn't a valuable sea at all and there are literally 0 Nordic naval accomplishments. The Maormer have continued to attack the Summerset Isles well into the Third Era and were always repelled by the Altmeri navy. Example: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:War_of_the ... f_the_Isle

Um. no. the only way for them to win is if the Tes VI lore pulls something unbelievable like an airship fleet (like those that the Dwemer apparently had).
that is to say, the Aldmeri Dominion could just barricade Skyrim and wait for the nords to just die off. but I don't think they'd have the patience for that.

Both the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion have been known to do spacetravel: the Alinor Sunbirds and the Imperial Mananauts and their Mothships.

first off, The Dominion never got anywhere north of Imperial City. Bruma and Cheydinhal were all controlled by the Empire from the start to finish. Chorrol was so secure that the Dominion couldn't even check and find the hidden legion in it before the Battle of Red Ring. The Dominion didn't "almost burn the empire to the ground", the majority of their atrocities were concentrated in the Imperial City.
and more importantly, there was nothing "sneaky" about the raising of their army. if you read "A Concise Account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion" or "Rising Threat", it is essentially clear that the only ones not aware of the Dominion's rising threat were the Mede Emperors, mostly because they were busy first consolidating their power in Cyrodiil, then with Skyrim, High rock and Hammerfell, and were too inexperienced in politics as well as ruling to find out that three traditionally supremacist states seceding and calling themselves Aldmeri Dominion will probably mean war.

The cities you listed were not military targets for the Dominion. The Imperial City was. The Dominion sought to get their hands on the White-Gold Tower so that they could ensure it was disabled - since disabling the Towers is their method of achieving their ultimate goal: unmaking time and Nirn. Talos ties into this because he fulfills a similar role as one of the Towers, which is why they want him out of the picture as well.

First off, sorry. I meant Great War. that aside, no. the Great War destroyed the majority of their legions. if they had more than 12 legions, they would send more in the Battle of Red Ring.
Based on the aforementioned book, only three legions were in that battle (one would be led by "the Emperor" (read: the Forgotten Hero), another by General Jonna (This one in Skyrim. when they left, the Reachmen declared reach independent yadda yadda yadda), and the last one led by General Decianus. On the Battle of Imperial City (where Titus was forced to escape to Skyrim), two legions were destroyed. by the end of the Great War, five of the Legions were too low in numbers to work.

Two Imperial Legions have been written as decimated.

A full generation has been raised since the Great War and it stands to reason that the weakened Legions have been replenished. The Empire does, by all accounts, have 18 or more full Imperial Legions under its command, as well as troops from High Rock and Skyrim. The Empire did not send its full military might on the Imperial City because they had to fight on several fronts throughout Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. There have been many more Legions that have been listed in several of the games.

I'm not sure why you are so keen on ignoring established lore in favor of your own headcanon, and why you forget about anything that was established in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and the Elder Scrolls Online - but I can assure you that everything I've written so far is entirely based on the written lore and events depicted in the games.

You can think what you want to think yourself, obviously, but what I've just said is all based on a very, very big understanding of most of the cultures in the setting, as well as literally 6 years of this same discussion

[Pilarcraft]

You can think what you want to think yourself, obviously, but what I've just said is all based on a very, very big understanding of most of the cultures in the setting, as well as literally 6 years of this same discussion

Honestly I can't be bothered to repeat all the basic lore facts that seem to go over your head again.
the majority of what you mentioned (especially about the Altmer) are non-canon.
Most of them are Kirkbridean fan-fictions that fell out of canon about the same time Skyrim was released.

No. Sunbirds (a concept only used in one Out of Game book, written by Michael Kirkbride and Lady Nerevar, which fell out of canon about the same time Skyrim was released) are not canon. Mananauts might be, but they were a strictly Reman Empire Concept, and not used in any time after early Second Era.

The majority of Tamriel's wars (the Tiber Wars is one of the many.) haven't been fought on the larger scale with magic. The War of the First Council, maybe. the Argonian Invasion, Maybe. the Nordic Invasion of Morrowind, maybe. Great war, no confirmation as of yet. but the majority of tamriel's wars have been primarily melee. magic, if it participated, acted as back up.

nobody said anything about the Sea of Ghost being valuable. it's just the only naval route to Skyrim. if the Dominion wants to attack from the sea, it'll have to go through there.

But yes. you're free to your opinion as well. if only ESO and Skyrim hadn't made the majority of MK's fanfictions officially non-canon.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

But yes. you're free to your opinion as well. if only ESO and Skyrim hadn't made the majority of MK's fanfictions officially non-canon.

I think you'll find that ESO is doing the exact opposite, actually :^)

[Zanera]

What's left of the Empire should remain unified in order to smash the Thalmor to nothing next war and also to leave Summerset to the Maormer.

But yes. you're free to your opinion as well. if only ESO and Skyrim hadn't made the majority of MK's fanfictions officially non-canon.

I think you'll find that ESO is doing the exact opposite, actually :^)

Those fucking Mananauts.

[Zanera]

How is Valenwood supremacist? Sure, they've fell into the arms of the Aldmeri Dominion at times, but I believe that was in uneasy times, and only the Third incarnation of the AD is ruled by (highly) active racists as far as I know.

The Bosmer share Valenwood with the Imga and so-called "Wood Orcs", along with the many beasts of the forest, including Centaurs.[15][54] They have a long history of welcoming those who seek refuge within Valenwood.[5] They accepted slaves fleeing the Ayleids, and then Ayleids fleeing the slaves, without showing favorites. Around the time of the Alliance War, they also freely welcomed Argonian refugees who had left their homeland in protest over the formation of the Ebonheart Pact.[55] Many foreigners visit Falinesti at some point, the marvelous traveling city of the Bosmer (though at last report, the city had mysteriously rooted itself).[18] Cultural loyalties have tended to divide the Bosmer, such as the rivalry between the Blacksap and the Camorans, and the schism between followers of the Green Pact and "salad-eaters" who have no qualms about breaking the tenets of the Pact.

They can't even really agree on what makes their culture so great. At one point Bosmer abroad found that they had forgotten about the Green Pact and they had to make an organization to make sure everyone followed it.

The Thalmor are the ones that are the assholes, and in Skyrim at least, they are all Altmer, and there is one Bosmer among them that despised them.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Thalmor_Diplomatic_Corps_Notice
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Thalmor_Handbill
General Altmer assholeness and snobbery at the end there.

There are Bosmer that look at a dead enemy and think 'Yeah, I'll not eat that corpse like a sick fuck.'




Also, the Sea of Ghosts didn't stop the Second Akaviri Invasion, and maybe the first one too (I think the Akaviri came southward to Pale Pass then were stopped by the Colovian Reman I so I assume through Skyrim.)
There was also all those times Atmorans immigrated to Skyrim, especially Ysgramor's brood. Sea of Ghosts definitely didn't stop them, just ask a Snow Elf.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I'm stuck between Whiterun, Eastmarch and the Rift for my favorite.
Whiterun because of its nice people, Rift because of its everlasting autumn, and Eastmarch because of its enviromental beauty and overall rich history. oh. and they also host the rebellion, so that's a plus.

I like Riften, the sewer people are edgy and the marketplace is easy to sell items quickly. Most of the other holds have larger distances between the vendors.

[Zanera]

What I like:
Whiterun. It's an awesome place that is currently ruled by an awesome dude. I just love it. Although the walls are crappy, but I think Balgruuf the Greater mentions how maintenance hasn't been hot lately. Lotta farm, and with all the other terrain in the game so varied, it's nice to just have some flat land to stroll across. Got some snowy mountains to the north, but mountains in a cold region makes every kind of sense.

Haafingar. Mostly for Solitude and the area around it, like the harbor. The walls aren't crappy. Seat of great power in Skyrim. Has the East Empire Company harbor, and the only one that can compete is at Windhelm. Any landscape that isn't that brilliant natural arch, though, and I have to say it's not pleasing to my eye.

The Rift. For the hold, definitely not the city. That constant autumn is something I really dig. The entire thing is on a raised valley.

What I hate:
Hjaalmarch. It's a cold, swampy pile of crap, just like Morthal (snowy landscape is a jog away outside the city). At least Eastmarch has hot springs.

Winterhold. Snowiest wasteland there is. Not even the College can save this hold, but I don't find it as bad as Hjaalmarch. I just don't really like swamps, especially when they're potentially pretty cold.

The Reach. Scarred, craggly land and the only thing I remotely like is that really good gold mine. Which has hostile NPCs.

The Pale. Snowy. Dawnstar is a crap harbor, and it's the only thing it can really claim. The two mines harvest materials I don't think are really that valuable. Not redeemed through terrain.

Meh:
The rest.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

I think you'll find that ESO is doing the exact opposite, actually :^)

Those fucking Mananauts.

https://i.imgur.com/hK00l5J.png

[Keldros]

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

But skeehrum is an elder scrolls game!

[The Grene Knyght]

I never know who to side with in the civil war lol both sides are so problematic. Last time I want with NCR but this time I'm going with the institute.

[Sunstruck]

After beating the war on both sides, it's just personally more satisfying to finally defeat Ulfric than it is to finally defeat some random legate