The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[Salus Maior]

What do you think the population of Skyrim is? my guess is at best 500,000.

Hm, what was the population of medieval Scandinavia? That might be a good comparison.

Or some other nordic country about the canon size of Skyrim. Which I'm actually not sure what that is.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

I've always imagined the Imperial City has a population of about 1 million. Skyrim somewhere between 1 to 2 million maybe?

[The Blaatschapen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_ ... hic_tables

That might help you make a good estimation. 2 million is very high.

[The Grene Knyght]

What do you think the population of Skyrim is? my guess is at best 500,000.

Hm, what was the population of medieval Scandinavia? That might be a good comparison.

Or some other nordic country about the canon size of Skyrim. Which I'm actually not sure what that is.

many scandanavian countries had large outward migration during a lot of the medieval period, while Skyrim (in elder scrolls 5 at least) has large inward migration. so while its a good starting point, its probably not an ideal comparison.

[St Salvador]

Theres bound to be a fairly large Dunmer population due to what happened in Morrowind.

[Salus Maior]

Theres bound to be a fairly large Dunmer population due to what happened in Morrowind.

Eh, only in eastern Skyrim. And even then, they're still a minority.

[Maichuko]

I'll vote for Markarth since fighting the Forsworn is fun.

[The Temple States]

I don't think the outcome of the civil war will be mentioned at all (or if so, in vague, nonspecific terms) in the next game. As well as other major in-game choices.

Like the outcome of New Vegas and Fallout 4.

Edit: Also, I imagine that the cause of the downfall of the Thalmor will be the next *insert legendary main character here*, with the aid of Bosmer rebels while the next Great War is blowing up. Yes, I am holding out for Elder Scrolls: Valenwood.

Unless they pull another "dragonbreak" (which I hate, I mean they were good for Daggerfall's multiple endings but beyond that they just make lore too confusing) in which both sides "win" the civil war then I'd say the Empire will probably be mentioned as the victor as they have the advantage and there's this big to do about how the Empire has to be ready for the next Great War.

We also don't know if the next one will be after Skyrim, as the game immediately following Skyrim was Online which takes place in the Second Era, before Tiber Septim's conquests.

Personally, I'd like to see a TES game set in Hammerfell.

[Salus Maior]

I don't think the outcome of the civil war will be mentioned at all (or if so, in vague, nonspecific terms) in the next game. As well as other major in-game choices.

Like the outcome of New Vegas and Fallout 4.

Edit: Also, I imagine that the cause of the downfall of the Thalmor will be the next *insert legendary main character here*, with the aid of Bosmer rebels while the next Great War is blowing up. Yes, I am holding out for Elder Scrolls: Valenwood.

Unless they pull another "dragonbreak" (which I hate, I mean they were good for Daggerfall's multiple endings but beyond that they just make lore too confusing) in which both sides "win" the civil war then I'd say the Empire will probably be mentioned as the victor as they have the advantage and there's this big to do about how the Empire has to be ready for the next Great War.

We also don't know if the next one will be after Skyrim, as the game immediately following Skyrim was Online which takes place in the Second Era, before Tiber Septim's conquests.

Personally, I'd like to see a TES game set in Hammerfell.

I wouldn't say that the Empire does (have the advantage), but I'm not interested in clogging the thread with Imperial/Stormcloak debate further so I'll just agree to disagree.

We already have one that took place in Hammerfell. Or at least part of it.

Valenwood is relatively new and untouched, and far more relevant to the Thalmor plotline.

[Zanera]

Unless the Second Great War is considered in the past in Elder Scrolls 6, and we don't get to experience it at all. If there isn't just some political movements internally that overturn the Thalmor's rule.

[Barboneia]

Unless the Second Great War is considered in the past in Elder Scrolls 6, and we don't get to experience it at all. If there isn't just some political movements internally that overturn the Thalmor's rule.

Of course we wouldn't experience it. I don't think Bethesda wants to program more supposedly huge battles that actually only consist of like 50 people on each side.

[Salus Maior]

Unless the Second Great War is considered in the past in Elder Scrolls 6, and we don't get to experience it at all. If there isn't just some political movements internally that overturn the Thalmor's rule.

Well, then that'd be bullshit. Considering how much they're hyping it up in Skyrim.

[Zanera]

Unless the Second Great War is considered in the past in Elder Scrolls 6, and we don't get to experience it at all. If there isn't just some political movements internally that overturn the Thalmor's rule.

Of course we wouldn't experience it. I don't think Bethesda wants to program more supposedly huge battles that actually only consist of like 50 people on each side.

If it was in Valenwood there would be moving tree cities, so putting in giant clashes between the Legion and Aldmeri forces would make an either/or situation.

I want to see moving tree cities, so...

[Salus Maior]

Of course we wouldn't experience it. I don't think Bethesda wants to program more supposedly huge battles that actually only consist of like 50 people on each side.

If it was in Valenwood there would be moving tree cities, so putting in giant clashes between the Legion and Aldmeri forces would make an either/or situation.

I want to see moving tree cities, so...

I imagine most of the conflict would be in Cyrodiil rather than Valenwood anyhow.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

If it was in Valenwood there would be moving tree cities, so putting in giant clashes between the Legion and Aldmeri forces would make an either/or situation.

I want to see moving tree cities, so...

I imagine most of the conflict would be in Cyrodiil rather than Valenwood anyhow.

Not necessarily. While you said you don't think it's the case, the Empire would - at least in the case of a Stormcloak loss - most definitely have the upper hand in such a conflict, and they'd be able to push into Valenwood.

[Bralia]

The Reach is objectively the best hold. It has Karthwasten and Kolskeggr in it. The source of my economy-destroying jewelry industry.

[Olthar]

The Reach is objectively the best hold. It has Karthwasten and Kolskeggr in it. The source of my economy-destroying jewelry industry.

Better plan: Halted Stream Camp has 16 iron veins and a book of Transmute Mineral Ore. Fort Fellhammer and Embershard Mine also have 10 and 8 veins, respectively. Turn it all into gold and make rings. Tons of money as well as Alteration and Smithing training.

[Barboneia]

Transmuting ore is all fun and games until you realize you need all of that iron to build your houses, and all those bloody building materials, so if you forget you usually have to travel across what seems like half of fucking Nirn, buying as much iron as you can, and then realizing that you don't have enough so you have to go somewhere else because the other places you went are out because you bought all of their iron already, so then you get really pissed and stop playing Skyrim for a month.

At least, that always happens to me.

[Bralia]

The Reach is objectively the best hold. It has Karthwasten and Kolskeggr in it. The source of my economy-destroying jewelry industry.

Better plan: Halted Stream Camp has 16 iron veins and a book of Transmute Mineral Ore. Fort Fellhammer and Embershard Mine also have 10 and 8 veins, respectively. Turn it all into gold and make rings. Tons of money as well as Alteration and Smithing training.

As much as I like to RP that I'm a professional jeweler, standard gold or silver rings would get overly spammy, for me personally. I like to go bigger, never making a necklace or ring without a gemstone. Making the Crown of Barenziah a priority is something I've started to refine down to a method. And just like Barboneia, I value my iron for house building, so I tend to avoid transmutation in favor of a nice stockpile.

[Olthar]

Better plan: Halted Stream Camp has 16 iron veins and a book of Transmute Mineral Ore. Fort Fellhammer and Embershard Mine also have 10 and 8 veins, respectively. Turn it all into gold and make rings. Tons of money as well as Alteration and Smithing training.

As much as I like to RP that I'm a professional jeweler, standard gold or silver rings would get overly spammy, for me personally. I like to go bigger, never making a necklace or ring without a gemstone. Making the Crown of Barenziah a priority is something I've started to refine down to a method. And just like Barboneia, I value my iron for house building, so I tend to avoid transmutation in favor of a nice stockpile.

I don't go out of my way to get gems, but I do save any I find. I don't care about the extra money; smithing bigger items gives more XP.

As for the iron, you can easily get limitless amounts if you're willing to pay for it. Go to any blacksmith. Buy everything they have. Save the game. Shoot them in the face. Reload. Boom, refreshed merchant inventory.

[Barboneia]

As much as I like to RP that I'm a professional jeweler, standard gold or silver rings would get overly spammy, for me personally. I like to go bigger, never making a necklace or ring without a gemstone. Making the Crown of Barenziah a priority is something I've started to refine down to a method. And just like Barboneia, I value my iron for house building, so I tend to avoid transmutation in favor of a nice stockpile.

I don't go out of my way to get gems, but I do save any I find. I don't care about the extra money; smithing bigger items gives more XP.

As for the iron, you can easily get limitless amounts if you're willing to pay for it. Go to any blacksmith. Buy everything they have. Save the game. Shoot them in the face. Reload. Boom, refreshed merchant inventory.

But that would break muh immersion.

[The Temple States]

Iron is literally the most common metal in the game

You don't even have to buy it, just stumble around in the wild and you'll find 10 ore veins in every damn hold. Most mines have iron, half the caves in Skyrim have at least one iron ore deposit, and Bandits even have ingots on them. Not to mention it's so cheap and every blacksmith sells it, it's not like iron is hard to come by. This is iron we're talking about, not stahlrim, it's literally everywhere.

I wouldn't say that the Empire does (have the advantage), but I'm not interested in clogging the thread with Imperial/Stormcloak debate further so I'll just agree to disagree.

My friend, if you can't see the obvious advantage the Empire has over the Stormcloaks, then you my friend haven't been paying attention. I can gladly list all the reasons the Empire has a clear and definite advantage if you'd like.

We already have one that took place in Hammerfell. Or at least part of it.

Yeah, one tiny little island that doesn't even comprise a quarter of the province. Not to mention nobody liked that game.

Personally, I don't care where the next one takes place so long as it isn't in Skyrim, Morrowind, or Cyrodiil as those have already been covered. Technically High Rock has too, but not on the same playing field as the others.

I'd like to see Hammerfell personally, because I want to see Redguard culture fleshed out some more. Besides, the Redguards just kicked out the Thalmor, so it's not really much of a stretch for a game post-Skyrim to take place in Hammerfell. In fact, it could take place during the Second Great War in which Hammerfell is allied with the Empire. This time the Thalmor could be the main antagonists, in which the player drives them out of Hammerfell again.

"Hero of Hammerfell" has a nice ring to it.

[Salus Maior]

My friend, if you can't see the obvious advantage the Empire has over the Stormcloaks, then you my friend haven't been paying attention. I can gladly list all the reasons the Empire has a clear and definite advantage if you'd like.

The Empire is barely holding itself together. On top of it's capitulation to the Thalmor, unrest and instability is prevalent throughout the Empire. Wayrest was sacked and occupied by pirates, they lost Morrowind because they just didn't give a shit to help them (hell, Skyrim has done more for the Dunmer than the Empire has), Cheydinal got burned down by undead, they've been powerless to stop Thalmor infiltration (especially since they threw the Blades under the bus), they lost Hammerfell because, again, they threw them under the bus, and of course they were not able to keep popular support in Skyrim because, again, they threw them under the bus and told them to grin and bear it.

The Empire is declining, and quickly. Hell, even Tullius knows that.

Yeah, one tiny little island that doesn't even comprise a quarter of the province. Not to mention nobody liked that game..

...No, Daggerfall.

In fact, it could take place during the Second Great War in which Hammerfell is allied with the Empire.

I don't think Hammerfell has quite forgotten that the Empire threw them under the bus after the first Great War. Sure, the Empire let some deserters help them, but I'm not convinced that's enough for the Redguards to think that bygones should be bygones.

[The Temple States]

The Empire is barely holding itself together. On top of it's capitulation to the Thalmor, unrest and instability is prevalent throughout the Empire. Wayrest was sacked and occupied by pirates, they lost Morrowind because they just didn't give a shit to help them (hell, Skyrim has done more for the Dunmer than the Empire has), Cheydinal got burned down by undead, they've been powerless to stop Thalmor infiltration (especially since they threw the Blades under the bus), they lost Hammerfell because, again, they threw them under the bus, and of course they were not able to keep popular support in Skyrim because, again, they threw them under the bus and told them to grin and bear it.

The Empire is declining, and quickly. Hell, even Tullius knows that.

And yet still, the Legion has a clear advantage over the Stormcloaks.

1. They have, altogether, better Holds under their control. Falkreath's direct connection to Cyrodiil allows for reinforcements from the province should said reinforcements become available and allows for direct passage into the Reach, Whiterun, and the Rift making a valuable crossroads. Haafingar has arguably the largest, busiest, port in Skyrim and is homed to the East Empire Company which despite the constant setbacks still manages to maintain a powerful presence in Tamriel, not to mention Solitude's port is the only one that isn't plagued by icey water and icebergs, or that it also has a direct connection to High Rock. The Reach's silver mines provide great wealth to the Empire, even when under the monopoly of a Pro-Stormcloak family, and also connects directly to the Province of High Rock should reinforcements become available there. Morthal provides an important strategic value, as the swamps make it difficult for an invasion force to move, especially considering the only road through the Hold goes straight past a Imperial Fort and the many dangers within the swamp itself. Whiterun, which although neutral appears to canonically join the Empire, provides instant access to almost every Hold in Skyrim except for Haafingar, and Winterhold.

Compare that to the Stormcloak Holds: The Pale is hardly defensible at all, as it's only fort is located such that it can easily be bypassed by TWO alternative roads, and it's port is not only small but lies in icey waters and is plagued by not one, but two pirate groups. Winterhold is utterly useless in any regard, as it's roads do not serve any strategic purpose whatsoever, allowing the entire Hold to be bypassed and taking it would in truth provide no strategic importance at all, and the only reason Tullius has you capture it is to "put pressure on Windhelm", it's low population and complete emptiness also contributes little to any side's war effort, not to mention the atrocious weather that plagues the entire Hold. The Rift is a similar story, as if one wanted to march on Windhelm they could bypass Riften entirely, with again the only reason Tullius has you capture it is to secure the flank, as if Tullius had more resources at his disposal he could simply take the Pale, then march straight up to Ulfric's front door, with only one fort needing to be captured in the process, so It's only because he lacks the resources to do so that he goes after the Rift and Winterhold, otherwise they could be bypassed entirely with neither Hold being able to do much about it, as Riften's distance to Windhelm and Winterhold's sparse population make it difficult for reinforcements to break the siege to get there in time. Eastmarch is nearly devoid of anything of importance, as most of it is volcanic tundra and one of the roads to Riften has a giant camp directly on top of it. Stormcloak Holds in general are more spread out, barren, and devoid of habitation or security which allows for regular Imperial incursions into said Holds, especially in the Rift.

2. The Imperials have vastly superior equipment to the Stormcloaks. Even the weakest Imperial armor is superior to Stormcloak uniforms, which despite appearing identical to Hold Guards' outfits, are actually weaker than them. The Stormcloaks also lack any form of heavy armor, even for their officers, while Imperial officers share their uniforms with heavy troops, providing vastly superior protection. Stormcloak soldiers also typically have weaker weapons than their Imperial counterparts, with most of their ranks using crummy iron weapons while every soldier in the Imperial army uses steel. Not to mention the tendency for Stormcloaks to use two-handed weapons which, although do indeed do more damage, take longer to swing and so leave them open to quick attacks from bows, daggers, and swords - all of which are used by the Imperials - and make their attempts to block attacks less effective. In most 3v3 skirmishes I've seen between the two armies, the Imperials usually win with either none or one casualty, even when (for whatever reason) they lack shields (their lack of shields is likely an error on Bethesda's part, as it seems only the Imperial escorts for nobles to Vittoria Vici's wedding have shields). I've only seen Stormcloaks win twice, in one instance there was only one survivor, and in the other the Imperials were going up against Riften Guards which have superior weapons and armor, and even so did manage to a lose a man. Stormcloak patrols also regularly get slaughtered by Thalmor patrols they encounter, as the Justiciars also have superior weapons and armor, as well as magic on their side, as I have yet to see a single skirmish between the two result in Stormcloak victory, the closest being when the Thalmor emerged with only 1 death on their side. Thus, the Justiciars - intentionally or not - provide decent security for Imperial Holds in keeping out Stormcloak raids.

3. The Imperial Army, once again, beats the Stormcloaks in terms of diversity. Every Stormcloak in the game is a Nord, as well as most of their supporters, which provides little recruitment opportunity and furthers the idea that the Stormcloaks only care about Nords, alienating them from potential recruits among the other races that call Skyrim their home. The Dragonborn is the only exception to this, though this is entirely optional. Meanwhile, the bulk of the Imperial Army in Skyrim is comprised of the human races, save for two Legates who are a Altmer and a Dunmer respectively, though it is mentioned both in-game and in lore that the Legion is quite diverse, thus giving the Empire a larger pool for recruitment. The large Dunmer population in Skyrim - most of which face discrimination from Nords who are often pro-Stormcloak - is largely pro-Empire, and thus are more likely to seek membership in the Legion. In fact, you even meet a Dunmer farmer who, sick of discrimination from Nords, is heading to Solitude to join the Legion. It's also mentioned by many Orcs that they serve in Legion, and it's mentioned in the character creation that they are quite the warriors as well, though this isn't surprising. The Imperials also openly welcome magic users in the form of both healers and battlemages, something the Stormcloaks seem opposed to. Although Orc Legionnaires are never encountered in the game, and Imperial Battlemages are only seen at Helgen during Alduin's attack, it can be assumed that they canonically are being utilizing in the Civil War (Bethesda likely intentionally left these things out so that the armies were more balanced for gameplay purposes, but IMO that seems disappointing, and that doesn't explain why there are no female Legionnaires seen in battle besides Rikke, even though several are mentioned or seen as corpses). In comparison, only healers are ever mentioned among the ranks of the Stormcloaks, which put them at a disadvantage as battlemages can be quite a game changer in a battle. And again, the Stormcloaks lack any type of heavy units.

4. The population of Skyrim is pretty unevenly balanced with support for each side in the Civil War, with the Empire being far more popular among both Nords and non-Nords in both Imperial and Stormcloak Holds. This isn't surprising at all. Most Stormcloak soldiers/sympathizers appear to be quite fundamentalist, arrogant, xenophobic, racist, and generally misinformed. This can be a serious turn off to potential recruits and supporters, especially those among the well-educated and non-Nord masses. There are very few who are pro-Stormcloak who are also rational, tolerant individuals and so their hate can often lead to disgust from both Nord and non-Nord colleagues. Likewise, the Stormcloak Holds are in general less populated than their Imperial counterparts, which once again lowers their potential recruitment pool especially when they're isolating large minority populations with all their talk of "Skyrim for the Nords" and so-on.

5. The Stormcloak Jarls are not only less popular than their Imperial counterparts, but in general less sane/reasonable as well. Skald the Elder is viewed as immature, ignorant, and disliked by most of his people. Korir stubbornly tries to hold onto what is essentially a dead Hold, his opposition to the College of Winterhold preventing any potential growth from ever occuring, ensuring Winterhold's death. Laila Law-Giver is quite literally a complete idiot, thinking her son "possessed" for calling out Ulfric's bluffs and thinking Maven Black-Briar is a hero to the city and an upstanding, law-abiding citizen, which isn't even to mention how she kisses Maven's boots and arranges for a carriage to flee Riften should a dragon attack, her people be damned. Nobody in Markarth likes the Silver-Bloods, not even the people who work for them. Dengeir is quite obviously the victim of failing mental health, as he's so paranoid that he sees spies everywhere - even his former bodyguard who considers him a true friend - proving the story that he was encouraged to step down due to failing health to be quite true. I don't think I need to list all of Ulfric's faults in detail, so I'll just sum them up: Liar, murderer, traitor, narcissist, racist.

Compare that to the worst of the Imperial Jarls: Siddgeir cavorts with a bandit group, which is about the worst thing he does and the only really bad thing he does. Maven Black-Briar? Let's be honest, she was already running the city so it's not like anything in Riften changes either way. Elisif the Fair is a puppet, but at least she cares and leaves her capable steward in charge, just like Siddgeir does (although for different reasons). Balgruuf the Greater's worst quality is that he's a neglectful parent. It's pretty clear the Empire has better taste in leadership.

It's undeniable the clear advantage the Empire has over the Stormcloaks, even Ulfric himself mentions how little the Stormcloaks have should you join them in the Civil War. The only possible way they could win is with the Dragonborn on their side, otherwise they are at a clear disadvantage in terms of both gameplay and lore, so unless Bethesda has the Last Dragonborn be canonically pro-Stormcloak (which makes no sense, as the Blades are pro-Empire as they themselves reveal despite their reverence of Talos) or they pull another "Dragonbreak" (seriously I hate these) out of their pocket and both sides "win"/nobody remembers who won, then an Imperial victory is undoubtedly the only result of the Civil War. Ulfric simply has too many enemies and not enough allies, in fact the few allies he does have he didn't even gain until after he murdered Torygg, though these were gained more likely out of fear than actual respect, as even many of his own allies don't trust, like, or respect the man.

The problem with the Stormcloaks is they think with their hearts, and you can't just win a war by shouting "Victory or Sovngarde". Further more, Skyrim - especially after a terrible civil war - doesn't stand a chance against the Aldmeri Dominion. The Empire has a better chance, and it's on crutches.

[The Temple States]

Yeah, one tiny little island that doesn't even comprise a quarter of the province. Not to mention nobody liked that game..

...No, Daggerfall.

In fact, it could take place during the Second Great War in which Hammerfell is allied with the Empire.

I don't think Hammerfell has quite forgotten that the Empire threw them under the bus after the first Great War. Sure, the Empire let some deserters help them, but I'm not convinced that's enough for the Redguards to think that bygones should be bygones.

That's still not even half of Hammerfell.

Hammerfell might not think fondly of the Empire, but I bet you they think less of the Thalmor and would gladly join a war against them in revenge. And if Titus Mede II is indeed canonically dead then an alliance with his successor would be far more likely to happen.