The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[Andsed]

Honestly that's because compared to the various races of Mer, Orcs are for the large part harmless. They're just there. They don't particularly have a long-standing feud with anyone else either which helps (which is ironic given they have the best reason for a feud with virtually any of their neighbors).

I would think that the Orcs grate quite a few of the other powers-that-be, because of the way they set up strongholds etc in what could be considered the territory of others. So I still think it's odd that they don't get more flak. The Empire is different, as they are likely inclined to leave them alone as Orcs regularly serve in the Imperial Army.

I mean the Orcs stronghold just kinda sit there not causing much of an issue and attacking them would likely be somewhat difficult given their location and Orcish fighting ability's so I would guess many governments just dont see the point in spending time and effort attacking them.

[Imperial isa]

This been posted ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Ulq5dvTpo

[The New California Republic]

This been posted ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Ulq5dvTpo

...the video image is what appears to be a werewolf about to mount a nord, so I hesitated to play it...

[North German Realm]

Honestly that's because compared to the various races of Mer, Orcs are for the large part harmless. They're just there. They don't particularly have a long-standing feud with anyone else either which helps (which is ironic given they have the best reason for a feud with virtually any of their neighbors).

I would think that the Orcs grate quite a few of the other powers-that-be, because of the way they set up strongholds etc in what could be considered the territory of others. So I still think it's odd that they don't get more flak. The Empire is different, as they are likely inclined to leave them alone as Orcs regularly serve in the Imperial Army.

Iirc most of the Orcish presence outside of Orsinium (and Skyrim+Breton Reach) is in the form of active or former Imperial soldiers, correct me if I'm wrong but Skyrim's the only province that has Strongholds, which is decidedly a "4th Era" thing, as they were mostly settled there by the Empire.

I would think that the Orcs grate quite a few of the other powers-that-be, because of the way they set up strongholds etc in what could be considered the territory of others. So I still think it's odd that they don't get more flak. The Empire is different, as they are likely inclined to leave them alone as Orcs regularly serve in the Imperial Army.

I mean the Orcs stronghold just kinda sit there not causing much of an issue and attacking them would likely be somewhat difficult given their location and Orcish fighting ability's so I would guess many governments just dont see the point in spending time and effort attacking them.

Not necessarily. Orcish Strongholds are located in areas with notable strategic resources. The Silver of the Reach, the Ebony of Eastmarch, etc, and the Orcs -justifiably- hold said resources as their own (they do need to eat after all), which many Jarls wouldn't mind getting those mines back.

[The New California Republic]

I would think that the Orcs grate quite a few of the other powers-that-be, because of the way they set up strongholds etc in what could be considered the territory of others. So I still think it's odd that they don't get more flak. The Empire is different, as they are likely inclined to leave them alone as Orcs regularly serve in the Imperial Army.

Iirc most of the Orcish presence outside of Orsinium (and Skyrim+Breton Reach) is in the form of active or former Imperial soldiers, correct me if I'm wrong but Skyrim's the only province that has Strongholds, which is decidedly a "4th Era" thing, as they were mostly settled there by the Empire.

From the wiki:

Orc Strongholds are scattered throughout Tamriel but most of them are located in Skyrim, High Rock, and Hammerfell.

---

I mean the Orcs stronghold just kinda sit there not causing much of an issue and attacking them would likely be somewhat difficult given their location and Orcish fighting ability's so I would guess many governments just dont see the point in spending time and effort attacking them.

Not necessarily. Orcish Strongholds are located in areas with notable strategic resources. The Silver of the Reach, the Ebony of Eastmarch, etc, and the Orcs -justifiably- hold said resources as their own (they do need to eat after all), which many Jarls wouldn't mind getting those mines back.

I considered that the Jarls might want the mines back, but maybe they don't want to piss off the Orcs.

[The Huskar Social Union]

This been posted ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Ulq5dvTpo

...the video image is what appears to be a werewolf about to mount a nord, so I hesitated to play it...

Its just all the ESO cinematics on a loop

[New Vedan]

The fact that the op of this thread is a ex nation is pretty telling of how long TES6 has taken.

[Great Mann]

The fact that the op of this thread is a ex nation is pretty telling of how long TES6 has taken.

It’s been 8 years since TESV and Bethesda has had other projects in the meantime, including the new IP. TESVI won’t be here for another few years yet IMO.

[Andsed]

Iirc most of the Orcish presence outside of Orsinium (and Skyrim+Breton Reach) is in the form of active or former Imperial soldiers, correct me if I'm wrong but Skyrim's the only province that has Strongholds, which is decidedly a "4th Era" thing, as they were mostly settled there by the Empire.

From the wiki:

Orc Strongholds are scattered throughout Tamriel but most of them are located in Skyrim, High Rock, and Hammerfell.

---

Not necessarily. Orcish Strongholds are located in areas with notable strategic resources. The Silver of the Reach, the Ebony of Eastmarch, etc, and the Orcs -justifiably- hold said resources as their own (they do need to eat after all), which many Jarls wouldn't mind getting those mines back.

I considered that the Jarls might want the mines back, but maybe they don't want to piss off the Orcs.

That is most likely it. Especially with the civil war still going on the Jarls probably do not want to risk pissing off the Orcs and have Orcish warbands rampage across Skyrim.

[San Lumen]

The fact that the op of this thread is a ex nation is pretty telling of how long TES6 has taken.

It’s been 8 years since TESV and Bethesda has had other projects in the meantime, including the new IP. TESVI won’t be here for another few years yet IMO.

It likely doesnt come out till at least 2024. It better be bug free given how long they have had to work on it.

[North German Realm]

From the wiki:

Orc Strongholds are scattered throughout Tamriel but most of them are located in Skyrim, High Rock, and Hammerfell.

---

I considered that the Jarls might want the mines back, but maybe they don't want to piss off the Orcs.

That is most likely it. Especially with the civil war still going on the Jarls probably do not want to risk pissing off the Orcs and have Orcish warbands rampage across Skyrim.

But the only place where there is even a possibility of an "Orcish Warband" running loose is the Reach (Which has a sizable population of Orcs). Whether an army of Nords can or can't defeat Orcs who're holding fortified positions is one thing (they... probably can't), but given the small population of each of the strongholds, they wouldn't be running any form of warbands even in case of hostility.

[Great Mann]

It’s been 8 years since TESV and Bethesda has had other projects in the meantime, including the new IP. TESVI won’t be here for another few years yet IMO.

It likely doesnt come out till at least 2024. It better be bug free given how long they have had to work on it.

Just because it’s a way off doesn’t mean it’s been worked on for longer than between now and its release. It’ll be as developed as Skyrim or slightly better by the time it releases because Bethesda is/was focused on Starfield.

[Valrifell]

It likely doesnt come out till at least 2024. It better be bug free given how long they have had to work on it.

Just because it’s a way off doesn’t mean it’s been worked on for longer than between now and its release. It’ll be as developed as Skyrim or slightly better by the time it releases because Bethesda is/was focused on Starfield.

They weren't working on it up until the first announcement trailer, and then they said they were in the very very very early stages of pre-production as effort is focused on Starfield.

So yeah the development cycle for TESVI practically only started two years ago.It definitely won't be bug-free.

[Great Mann]

Just because it’s a way off doesn’t mean it’s been worked on for longer than between now and its release. It’ll be as developed as Skyrim or slightly better by the time it releases because Bethesda is/was focused on Starfield.

They weren't working on it up until the first announcement trailer, and then they said they were in the very very very early stages of pre-production as effort is focused on Starfield.

So yeah the development cycle for TESVI practically only started two years ago.It definitely won't be bug-free.

Yes, pardon the non-specific wording. Most Bethesda titles have had between 3-5 years of development (TES and Fallout specifically) I think and we know how they all turn out, especially with their ancient engine.

[Aeritai]

You would think Bethsda would move on from the Creation Engine considering they have problems with bugs. But I guess switching engines is expensive for Bethsda.

[The New California Republic]

That is most likely it. Especially with the civil war still going on the Jarls probably do not want to risk pissing off the Orcs and have Orcish warbands rampage across Skyrim.

But the only place where there is even a possibility of an "Orcish Warband" running loose is the Reach (Which has a sizable population of Orcs). Whether an army of Nords can or can't defeat Orcs who're holding fortified positions is one thing (they... probably can't), but given the small population of each of the strongholds, they wouldn't be running any form of warbands even in case of hostility.

I'd imagine when word got out that a few Jarls were massacring Orcs that inevitably Orcs from surrounding areas would flock to assist. And keep in mind that the military power of many of the Jarls is tenuous at best, so they in all likelihood wouldn't want to get into a protracted conflict with the Orcs, especially considering that many of the Jarls have a great many other problems to deal with at the same time.

[San Lumen]

You would think Bethsda would move on from the Creation Engine considering they have problems with bugs. But I guess switching engines is expensive for Bethsda.

Why would they switch engines? They are a very lazy company and can’t be bothered doing anything different or beta testing

[The Imperial Reach]

Ok genocide shill

Only one shilling for genocide here is you. I accept the few human genocides that happened as awful, you completely reject all the Elven ones.

Altmer don't care about world conquest. It never would've happened because it's flat out against their interests in the world - ESO's Ayrenn is very much the outlier and is consistently depicted as as much. There's the difference between them as well - Altmer are racist and as a result want to live on their island separated from the rest of the world. Nords are racist and as a result brag about genocide that might not have even taken place because that's a thing to aspire to.

And because something is that means it will always be.

Oh, wait, that's not how it works. Oops.

I'm very proud of you being able to list a lot of evil individuals. None of these justify the various fun genocidal times of Man, though.

Ah, yes, all 3 of them. Wow. Big number, there.

Interestingly enough, the two biggest Altmeri heroes, Phynaster and Syrabane, are known for helping not only their people but others as well - including peaceful cooperation with humans for a greater good.

Oh, you mean heroes are supposed to be good guys? I guess nobody told the Ayleids, Maormer, or Chimer/Dunmer that.

Why are you bringing up the time the Nords got so mad at the Snow Elves they decided to mass murder Chimer who didn't even attack them, Khajiit, Bosmer, Argonians, and Redguard?

Why are you bringing up completely unrelated conflicts? At best you can argue Chimer and maybe Bosmer. The rest is a massive stretch and has nothing to do with genocide. Nice try, though.

Or were you talking about the time the Yokudans decided to just kind of randomly genocide a people out of existence without provocation?

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we knew anything about the Left-Handed Elves except that they existed. Oh, wait, we don't. So why are you assuming it was "without provocation"? I wasn't aware you were omniscient.

Wait, you were talking about the time the Alessian Order decided to try and murder all Elves, including the ones that actively fought to help save them during Alessia's rebellion? Or that time they decided to break time for a millennia because the thought of a god not being entirely human in nature hurt too much? These are things they all actively consider to be stuff worth bragging about, by the way - rather than the acts of villains, such as is primarily the case in the examples you've listed.

Funny, I don't remember the Imperials celebrating the Alessian Order. As I recall they were actually considered psychotic and dangerous extremists, but oh well.

I'd go on, but you're obviously not interested in anything other than le epic genocide is good because le epic meta lore from le epic kirkbride says le elves want this so le man must kill all le yellow point ear exdee - your misstating of various things only proves as much.

Interesting viewpoint, except it's entirely incorrect as I don't celebrate any genocide nor do I condone the mass murder of Elves just for existing. The comment about the Numidium erasing the Altmer from existence was a joke. Stop taking it so personally just because you love Elves.

According to Kirkbride's reddit posts.

According to someone who actually cares about lore more than money, clearly. Shame Howard can't follow in his footsteps.

I mean really this guy's been writing TES lore for ages, but because he's no longer working for Bethesda we should just discard anything he says? Bethesda is a joke in case you haven't noticed. They contradict themselves with every new game.

Man bad too, though.

Didn't say they weren't.

Although I guess it's less awkward to explain that your fictional genocidal fantasies aren't related to anything that actual real people may look like. After all, the Snow Elves fought against the war - it only makes sense that the Chimer to the east that had nothing to do with any of that deserve to be captured, have their tongues cut out, and be put to slave labour into making a big stone city for the mighty Atmorans only to be crushed by solid stone totem poles dumped on their heads in a pit in praise of tyrannical Draconic overlords - shouldn't have been born with pointy ears!

I don't remember Chimer being involved in the building Windhelm, only Falmer. At any case you've already created my argument for me by pointing out the Atmorans were still worshiping dragons at the time.

None of TES' races are good eggs and they've all done heinous shit - ignoring the vast amount that one subgroup of races has done because 'other subgroup of races bad' is just willfully ignoring a significant amount of lore for the sake of what... feeling more justified about an unreasonable dislike for various fictional races? It's a waste of the setting's writing and the nuance put into it - on a smaller scale, it'd be like completely ignoring Ulfric's treatment of the Reach and the Reachmen to assure people that he's totally not a hypocrite.

Cool. Not disagreeing. You've completely fabricated my support for fictional genocide for some reason. I guess because none of Ulfric's fanboys are active enough for you to trash them, so you're going after me for memeing.

Very cool, dude. Very cool.

The TES fandom's continued obsession with justifying genocide by their favs and how it is good and great, actually, has to be one of my biggest and longest lasting gripes with it overall. Endlessly frustrating.

Good thing I haven't justified genocide, eh?

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

Only one shilling for genocide here is you. I accept the few human genocides that happened as awful, you completely reject all the Elven ones.

I'm not rejecting them. Poiting out humans did it means I love genocide, apparently. Ok genocide shill.

And because something is that means it will always be.

Oh, wait, that's not how it works. Oops.

Damn, what if the Nord all collectively disappeared? This makes Nords cool of a sudden! I love them! They could just... disappear! Wow!

Oh, wait. They don't. "Ah, but what if they [did thing they don't do] in the future?" doesn't really form the solid basis of an argument.

Ah, yes, all 3 of them. Wow. Big number, there.

There's more, if you'd like! I guess two entire species being wiped out from existence isn't too bad though.

Oh, you mean heroes are supposed to be good guys? I guess nobody told the Ayleids, Maormer, or Chimer/Dunmer that.

Or humans, evidently. Their biggest heroes are all about mass murder and genocide against anyone even slightly different! Fun!

Why are you bringing up completely unrelated conflicts? At best you can argue Chimer and maybe Bosmer. The rest is a massive stretch and has nothing to do with genocide. Nice try, though.

I'm not, though. All of those people are the ones attacked by the Nords in retaliation for Saarthal - as per their own heroic, legendary accounting of the matter in the Songs of the Return. It's something they actively brag about in their legends and are proud of.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware we knew anything about the Left-Handed Elves except that they existed. Oh, wait, we don't. So why are you assuming it was "without provocation"? I wasn't aware you were omniscient.

Well, the Yokudans themselves don't seem to be able to list any reason whatsoever - although I'm sure that you might think it's because they were (((elves))) up to (((elf things))) or something like that. 't is in their nature to be evil and duplicitous, after all - kind of like how it is in man's nature to mass murder random people on the other side of the world (although that is good and justified, of course).

Funny, I don't remember the Imperials celebrating the Alessian Order. As I recall they were actually considered psychotic and dangerous extremists, but oh well.

The Alessian Order was in charge of Cyrodiil and beyond for over two millennia.

Stop taking it so personally just because you love Elves.

Maybe get better jokes, then. It's the TES equivalent of Warhammer's "Heresy! Blam! xD".

According to someone who actually cares about lore more than money, clearly.

Or attention. Like, you know, how he decides to make weird statements just to get the fans outraged or, I don't know, turns Vivec's writing around from how he's written so he can do some wacky lines on raping Azura for laughs, in between telling people to kill themselves for not taking him seriously enough.

Didn't say they weren't.

I don't know, you're being awfully defensive over how anything they've ever done is less bad than whenever a single Elf takes in a breath (which only happens so they can fulfill the elven hivemind's goal of destroying existence, after all).

AI don't remember Chimer being involved in the building Windhelm, only Falmer. At any case you've already created my argument for me by pointing out the Atmorans were still worshiping dragons at the time.

The Chimer were the ones that got slaughtered when the Nords encountered them, instead, yes.

Dunmer aren't evil in any way whatsoever either, then - they worship some of the Daedra, after all, which removes the guilt off of any of their actions and puts it onto their icons of worship, instead.

Very cool, dude. Very cool.

Sorry, I'll make up for it by becoming cool again - elf man must be killed xddd world can only be good if genocide, my race best race!!!

Good thing I haven't justified genocide, eh?

Only defended it when "your favs" do it, a significant difference, true - 't is only justified in some occasions, like when it's a pedophile Breton man wanting to own the entire world.

[The Imperial Reach]

I know what you're trying to do, Dutch, and you won't succeed. You're not going to bait me into flaming you. You've already discredited yourself when you deflected any criticism of Elves by pointing to Man and saying they did the same thing. Whataboutism isn't an argument. Calling me a "genocide shill" isn't either.

Do yourself a favor and spend your time on less toxic pursuits.

[North German Realm]

I know what you're trying to do, Dutch, and you won't succeed. You're not going to bait me into flaming you. You've already discredited yourself when you deflected any criticism of Elves by pointing to Man and saying they did the same thing. Whataboutism isn't an argument. Calling me a "genocide shill" isn't either.

Do yourself a favor and spend your time on less toxic pursuits.

Tbf outside of potentially the Thalmor (that is, if we take out-of-game WOG seriously), none of what you've pointed out is a genocide.

[The Imperial Reach]

I know what you're trying to do, Dutch, and you won't succeed. You're not going to bait me into flaming you. You've already discredited yourself when you deflected any criticism of Elves by pointing to Man and saying they did the same thing. Whataboutism isn't an argument. Calling me a "genocide shill" isn't either.

Do yourself a favor and spend your time on less toxic pursuits.

Tbf outside of potentially the Thalmor (that is, if we take out-of-game WOG seriously), none of what you've pointed out is a genocide.

Saarthal, Lord Narifin's plan for the Imperial City, the Oblivion Crisis, and the Planemeld are all either acts of genocide or attempts at genocide. Saarthal being the only successful one.

One could argue what the Dwemer did to themselves was technically self-genocide.

[North German Realm]

Tbf outside of potentially the Thalmor (that is, if we take out-of-game WOG seriously), none of what you've pointed out is a genocide.

Saarthal, Lord Narifin's plan for the Imperial City, the Oblivion Crisis, and the Planemeld are all either acts of genocide or attempts at genocide. Saarthal being the only successful one.

One could argue what the Dwemer did to themselves was technically self-genocide.

The Planemeld and the Oblivion Crisis were technically done by singular rogue Mages/covens, rather than "The Mer" and Naarifin's actions are -technically- at best only a massacre (unless we're willing to call any largescale murder of civilians in a single urban area under occupation a genocide). Saarthal is more complicated; it's not a genocide but purely because the Elves had no opportunity to do so -it's more accurately ethnic cleansing, which is just as bad.

[The New California Republic]

I know what you're trying to do, Dutch, and you won't succeed. You're not going to bait me into flaming you. You've already discredited yourself when you deflected any criticism of Elves by pointing to Man and saying they did the same thing. Whataboutism isn't an argument. Calling me a "genocide shill" isn't either.

Do yourself a favor and spend your time on less toxic pursuits.

If you suspect someone of baiting then report it in Moderation, instead of using it as a debating tactic.

[The Imperial Reach]

Saarthal, Lord Narifin's plan for the Imperial City, the Oblivion Crisis, and the Planemeld are all either acts of genocide or attempts at genocide. Saarthal being the only successful one.

One could argue what the Dwemer did to themselves was technically self-genocide.

The Planemeld and the Oblivion Crisis were technically done by singular rogue Mages/covens, rather than "The Mer" and Naarifin's actions are -technically- at best only a massacre (unless we're willing to call any largescale murder of civilians in a single urban area under occupation a genocide). Saarthal is more complicated; it's not a genocide but purely because the Elves had no opportunity to do so -it's more accurately ethnic cleansing, which is just as bad.

Ethnic cleansing is pretty much the same thing as genocide.

I know what you're trying to do, Dutch, and you won't succeed. You're not going to bait me into flaming you. You've already discredited yourself when you deflected any criticism of Elves by pointing to Man and saying they did the same thing. Whataboutism isn't an argument. Calling me a "genocide shill" isn't either.

Do yourself a favor and spend your time on less toxic pursuits.

If you suspect someone of baiting then report it in Moderation, instead of using it as a debating tactic.

I will when I get home. I can't figure out how to copy+paste on my phone.