The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[The Imperial Reach]

Today I learned that if group X does a racism than a racism can never be done to them.

It's more like "I'm going to presume the blame for any racial tensions lies with the people who are known for being the most xenophobic assholes in Tamriel. Particularly when there's a member of a faction of their people known for their comparitive xenophilia, and he says the other Dunmer are just being dicks."

Holy fuck dude. The level of racial projecting, stereotyping, generalizing, and just straight-up victim blaming you're committing is just astounding. If the Dunmer were a real race you'd rightly be called out as a racist.

All you've done is prove that Stormcloaks are racist and so are their supporters - both in-game and IRL apparently.

[Valrifell]

Idk man the Nord in Raven Rock seems to be getting along pretty well, therefore the Dunmer can't be racist QED.

[San Lumen]

Idk man the Nord in Raven Rock seems to be getting along pretty well, therefore the Dunmer can't be racist QED.

No one is saying they can’t be racist but I’ve yet to see any actual proof they are. Their current situation in Windhelm is by decree. If they could change it I think they would

[Valrifell]

Idk man the Nord in Raven Rock seems to be getting along pretty well, therefore the Dunmer can't be racist QED.

No one is saying they can’t be racist but I’ve yet to see any actual proof they are. Their current situation in Windhelm is by decree. If they could change it I think they would

No, I was revealing the inherent biases in Emerald's arguments by revealing that, if his thesis is that the Dunmer are racist, Actually, then he is incorrect by his own standard of evidence.

[San Lumen]

No one is saying they can’t be racist but I’ve yet to see any actual proof they are. Their current situation in Windhelm is by decree. If they could change it I think they would

No, I was revealing the inherent biases in Emerald's arguments by revealing that, if his thesis is that the Dunmer are racist, Actually, then he is incorrect by his own standard of evidence.

I agree his argument is extremely flawed. He even said if the player character is a dumner, Argonian or khajit they can by Hjerim therefore the Dunmer aren’t living in a slum by decree. Rules don’t apply to the player character. If would have been interesting if that was in the game such as khajit not being allowed in cities but how would you complete most quests? It would be next to impossible

[Valrifell]

No, I was revealing the inherent biases in Emerald's arguments by revealing that, if his thesis is that the Dunmer are racist, Actually, then he is incorrect by his own standard of evidence.

I agree his argument is extremely flawed. He even said if the player character is a dumner, Argonian or khajit they can by Hjerim therefore the Dunmer aren’t living in a slum by decree. Rules don’t apply to the player character. If would have been interesting if that was in the game such as khajit not being allowed in cities but how would you complete most quests? It would be next to impossible

It would be nice, from an in-universe perspective, to have some kind of workaround for that. For instance having to sneak around in the cities to not get caught by the guards.

It might sound hard, but other acclaimed RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines has a similar feature for their Nosferatu class of vampires, where you have to use the underground sewers to get from quest to quest. It would definitely provide an interesting and very unique playthrough of Skyrim.

[San Lumen]

I agree his argument is extremely flawed. He even said if the player character is a dumner, Argonian or khajit they can by Hjerim therefore the Dunmer aren’t living in a slum by decree. Rules don’t apply to the player character. If would have been interesting if that was in the game such as khajit not being allowed in cities but how would you complete most quests? It would be next to impossible

It would be nice, from an in-universe perspective, to have some kind of workaround for that. For instance having to sneak around in the cities to not get caught by the guards.

It might sound hard, but other acclaimed RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines has a similar feature for their Nosferatu class of vampires, where you have to use the underground sewers to get from quest to quest. It would definitely provide an interesting and very unique playthrough of Skyrim.

How would you do the main quest though when you have to speak to the Jarl? And you’d never be able to buy a house or adopt kids

[The Emerald Legion]

Idk man the Nord in Raven Rock seems to be getting along pretty well, therefore the Dunmer can't be racist QED.

No one is saying they can’t be racist but I’ve yet to see any actual proof they are. Their current situation in Windhelm is by decree. If they could change it I think they would

Their main social hub, the New Gnisis Cornerclub, is run by a man who keeps imperial banners on the walls and has such lovely quotes as....

"It's not the cold of Skyrim that gets me. It's the stink from the people."

"None of that matters to me. Until someone takes (murders) a Dunmer, I let Windhelm deal with its own problems."

"Fine, then. I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets." - when talking to Dunmer who work for Nords.

"What's new with the Suvaris? Have they given you one of those helmets with the horns on them yet?"

"Apparently some Nord women were murdered. Not sure why I should care."

"Oh splendid, another Nord."

He runs their gathering place/watering hole. He sets the tone for Socialization for the Dunmer. While there's some pushback from the Dunmer who have jobs working with Nords in particular, it's pretty feeble and half hearted.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I agree his argument is extremely flawed. He even said if the player character is a dumner, Argonian or khajit they can by Hjerim therefore the Dunmer aren’t living in a slum by decree. Rules don’t apply to the player character. If would have been interesting if that was in the game such as khajit not being allowed in cities but how would you complete most quests? It would be next to impossible

It would be nice, from an in-universe perspective, to have some kind of workaround for that. For instance having to sneak around in the cities to not get caught by the guards.

It might sound hard, but other acclaimed RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines has a similar feature for their Nosferatu class of vampires, where you have to use the underground sewers to get from quest to quest. It would definitely provide an interesting and very unique playthrough of Skyrim.

It is immersion breaking, but at the same time it’d be penalizing to more “casual” players who just wanted to be the cool cat people.

If they had bothered, we’d probably get a fetch quest for Khajiit characters to complete that allows them into cities. Kind of like non Orcs and the strongholds.

[San Lumen]

No one is saying they can’t be racist but I’ve yet to see any actual proof they are. Their current situation in Windhelm is by decree. If they could change it I think they would

Their main social hub, the New Gnisis Cornerclub, is run by a man who keeps imperial banners on the walls and has such lovely quotes as....

"It's not the cold of Skyrim that gets me. It's the stink from the people."

"None of that matters to me. Until someone takes (murders) a Dunmer, I let Windhelm deal with its own problems."

"Fine, then. I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets." - when talking to Dunmer who work for Nords.

"What's new with the Suvaris? Have they given you one of those helmets with the horns on them yet?"

"Apparently some Nord women were murdered. Not sure why I should care."

"Oh splendid, another Nord."

He runs their gathering place/watering hole. He sets the tone for Socialization for the Dunmer. While there's some pushback from the Dunmer who have jobs working with Nords in particular, it's pretty feeble and half hearted.

Did you ever consider they feel that way because nords tend to be racist and treat them like dirt?

[Valrifell]

It would be nice, from an in-universe perspective, to have some kind of workaround for that. For instance having to sneak around in the cities to not get caught by the guards.

It might sound hard, but other acclaimed RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines has a similar feature for their Nosferatu class of vampires, where you have to use the underground sewers to get from quest to quest. It would definitely provide an interesting and very unique playthrough of Skyrim.

How would you do the main quest though when you have to speak to the Jarl? And you’d never be able to buy a house or adopt kids

You simply break into the palace, you could also still have homesteads and get the children in the unwalled cities, where it's pretty hard to keep people out.

[San Lumen]

It would be nice, from an in-universe perspective, to have some kind of workaround for that. For instance having to sneak around in the cities to not get caught by the guards.

It might sound hard, but other acclaimed RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines has a similar feature for their Nosferatu class of vampires, where you have to use the underground sewers to get from quest to quest. It would definitely provide an interesting and very unique playthrough of Skyrim.

It is immersion breaking, but at the same time it’d be penalizing to more “casual” players who just wanted to be the cool cat people.

If they had bothered, we’d probably get a fetch quest for Khajiit characters to complete that allows them into cities. Kind of like non Orcs and the strongholds.

That would have been a cool quest

How would you do the main quest though when you have to speak to the Jarl? And you’d never be able to buy a house or adopt kids

You simply break into the palace, you could also still have homesteads and get the children in the unwalled cities, where it's pretty hard to keep people out.

There are no houses you can buy in unwalled cities and if you break into the palace how would you do the main quest?

[The Emerald Legion]

Their main social hub, the New Gnisis Cornerclub, is run by a man who keeps imperial banners on the walls and has such lovely quotes as....

"It's not the cold of Skyrim that gets me. It's the stink from the people."

"None of that matters to me. Until someone takes (murders) a Dunmer, I let Windhelm deal with its own problems."

"Fine, then. I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets." - when talking to Dunmer who work for Nords.

"What's new with the Suvaris? Have they given you one of those helmets with the horns on them yet?"

"Apparently some Nord women were murdered. Not sure why I should care."

"Oh splendid, another Nord."

He runs their gathering place/watering hole. He sets the tone for Socialization for the Dunmer. While there's some pushback from the Dunmer who have jobs working with Nords in particular, it's pretty feeble and half hearted.

Did you ever consider they feel that way because nords tend to be racist and treat them like dirt?

... They treat them like dirt BECAUSE they act that way. Keep in mind, he openly has Imperial banners all over the place.

Do the same in Solitude with Stormcloak loyalties and you, at best, get the shit kicked out of you and fined for 'assaulting' the legion soldiers who did it. At worst you get killed.

[San Lumen]

Did you ever consider they feel that way because nords tend to be racist and treat them like dirt?

... They treat them like dirt BECAUSE they act that way. Keep in mind, he openly has Imperial banners all over the place.

Do the same in Solitude with Stormcloak loyalties and you, at best, get the shit kicked out of you and fined for 'assaulting' the legion soldiers who did it. At worst you get killed.

The empire helped the Dumner after the volcanic eruption destroyed their homeland. How dare he show support to the people who helped him.

No dunmer don’t act that way. Many nords are quite racist and their is absolutely no excuse for the conditions they live in and how they are treated. It’s quite disturbing how your making excuses for clearly unequal treatment. I wonder how you’d feel if you where in their shoes.

[Heloin]

Did you ever consider they feel that way because nords tend to be racist and treat them like dirt?

... They treat them like dirt BECAUSE they act that way. Keep in mind, he openly has Imperial banners all over the place.

Do the same in Solitude with Stormcloak loyalties and you, at best, get the shit kicked out of you and fined for 'assaulting' the legion soldiers who did it. At worst you get killed.

I get the impression that you've been playing a radically different skyrim from everyone else. The fantastical racism of the nords towards the Dunmer isn't even vaguely subtle. If you want to play the game as a racist elf hating nord that's your prerogative, but pretending that the in universe excuses someone would make for that racism aren't just bigotry is silly.

[The Emerald Legion]

... They treat them like dirt BECAUSE they act that way. Keep in mind, he openly has Imperial banners all over the place.

Do the same in Solitude with Stormcloak loyalties and you, at best, get the shit kicked out of you and fined for 'assaulting' the legion soldiers who did it. At worst you get killed.

The empire helped the Dumner after the volcanic eruption destroyed their homeland. How dare he show support to the people who helped him.

No dunmer don’t act that way. Many nords are quite racist and their is absolutely no excuse for the conditions they live in and how they are treated. It’s quite disturbing how your making excuses for clearly unequal treatment. I wonder how you’d feel if you where in their shoes.

You mean the people of Windhelm? That group of people who helped them? The group of people he is actively acting like a hateful asshole towards?

I'm going to be entirely honest when I say that I'm fairly certain you're ignoring the game world and just pattern matching 'pale skinned people oppressing dark skinned people' to your own IRL beliefs while ignoring the in world realities.

[Heloin]

The empire helped the Dumner after the volcanic eruption destroyed their homeland. How dare he show support to the people who helped him.

No dunmer don’t act that way. Many nords are quite racist and their is absolutely no excuse for the conditions they live in and how they are treated. It’s quite disturbing how your making excuses for clearly unequal treatment. I wonder how you’d feel if you where in their shoes.

You mean the people of Windhelm? That group of people who helped them? The group of people he is actively acting like a hateful asshole towards?

I'm going to be entirely honest when I say that I'm fairly certain you're ignoring the game world and just pattern matching 'pale skinned people oppressing dark skinned people' to your own IRL beliefs while ignoring the in world realities.

The people of Windhelm didn't want them. The people of Windhelm hate them and never wanted them. This isn't reading between the lines, it's not even vaguely subtle in game.

[Valrifell]

You simply break into the palace, you could also still have homesteads and get the children in the unwalled cities, where it's pretty hard to keep people out.

There are no houses you can buy in unwalled cities and if you break into the palace how would you do the main quest?

Portions of the base game would have to be reworked around that idea, but I don't think it'd be too much work all things considered. You break into the various palaces but before you get arrested you're like "no wait, I have important information regarding XYZ" and they'd be like "word? Oh sick, go ahead"

Maybe you'd even convince them to let the catfolk into the city by being so exemplar, letting you buy a house or whatever.

[The Emerald Legion]

You mean the people of Windhelm? That group of people who helped them? The group of people he is actively acting like a hateful asshole towards?

I'm going to be entirely honest when I say that I'm fairly certain you're ignoring the game world and just pattern matching 'pale skinned people oppressing dark skinned people' to your own IRL beliefs while ignoring the in world realities.

The people of Windhelm didn't want them. The people of Windhelm hate them and never wanted them. This isn't reading between the lines, it's not even vaguely subtle in game.

Then why are they still there? Seriously. By all accounts the former high King was practically Ulfrics puppet. If Ulfric really hadn't wanted them, they'd be gone.

You mean like the same pervasive sense of Racism you get from just about every Imperial Advisor? Every time they get snippy about Nords and their culture? Or how Tullius implies that Nords are literally lawless barbarians in need of civilizing?

It's not reading between the lines. You're missing the forest for the trees.

[The Imperial Reach]

Khajiit are allowed in the cities, it's just the caravans aren't.

The Thalmor agent in Riften when you're looking for Esbern proves this.

[The Imperial Reach]

... They treat them like dirt BECAUSE they act that way. Keep in mind, he openly has Imperial banners all over the place.

Do the same in Solitude with Stormcloak loyalties and you, at best, get the shit kicked out of you and fined for 'assaulting' the legion soldiers who did it. At worst you get killed.

I get the impression that you've been playing a radically different skyrim from everyone else. The fantastical racism of the nords towards the Dunmer isn't even vaguely subtle. If you want to play the game as a racist elf hating nord that's your prerogative, but pretending that the in universe excuses someone would make for that racism aren't just bigotry is silly.

Just block him. He has no interest in debating, he just wants to push propaganda.

[Heloin]

The people of Windhelm didn't want them. The people of Windhelm hate them and never wanted them. This isn't reading between the lines, it's not even vaguely subtle in game.

Then why are they still there? Seriously. By all accounts the former high King was practically Ulfrics puppet. If Ulfric really hadn't wanted them, they'd be gone.

There's bigger fish to fry.

You mean like the same pervasive sense of Racism you get from just about every Imperial Advisor? Every time they get snippy about Nords and their culture? Or how Tullius implies that Nords are literally lawless barbarians in need of civilizing?

And? Do you really think someone else being a bigot justifies all bigotry?

It's not reading between the lines. You're missing the forest for the trees.

It's not even subtle. It's one of the laziest deceptions of racism that a writer could come up with.

I'm sure you've played skyrim, it'd be a stupid thing to lie about. But your doing a great job at convincing me you've never been to Windhelm and I can't think how that could be done. Bravo for that I guess.

[Heloin]

I get the impression that you've been playing a radically different skyrim from everyone else. The fantastical racism of the nords towards the Dunmer isn't even vaguely subtle. If you want to play the game as a racist elf hating nord that's your prerogative, but pretending that the in universe excuses someone would make for that racism aren't just bigotry is silly.

Just block him. He has no interest in debating, he just wants to push propaganda.

That's the kind of sense I needed to hear.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I disagree with this notion that Ulfric controlled High King Torygg as a puppet.

Its known he Respected Ulfric for how openly he talked about independence and how firm he was in his beliefs, and some say he might have backed Ulfric if asked (Sybile Stentor says this), but he was also known to have been quite quiet on the matter regarding the White Gold Concordat, and was known for hosting pro Empire speeches (Sayma says this). Many interpreted his silence as endorsement, and Stentor also says that Torygg would likely have not went for Independence as he felt the Dominion would destroy Skyrim 1 v 1 and that Skyrim relied too much on the Empire for resources and how many Nords were still loyal to it and served in the Legions. And also that he might not have wanted the Empire, which Talos created, to fall apart as that would result in the end of his Legacy as a man.

So i just dont buy that point honestly. If he was Ulfric's puppet then Ulfric would have more than likely used him to start a war and this war would have been seen as the "High King vs the Empire" not just a Jarl who murdered the king and rebelled. But instead he went to Solitude, challenged him one on one and then killed him using the Voice. All so he could have a symbol to unify his rebellion around as many people hostile to the Empire saw Torygg as the Empire's presence in Skyrim.

Nothing points to him being Ulfric's puppet, there is some evidence he held Ulfric in high regard and respected him, but thats it. And at the end of the day the only way we would know for sure what Torygg would do is if we got to talk to him. Now we get to talk to him briefly in Sovngarde, but everyone there turns into depressed warrior poets who dont say much

[The Emerald Legion]

I get the impression that you've been playing a radically different skyrim from everyone else. The fantastical racism of the nords towards the Dunmer isn't even vaguely subtle. If you want to play the game as a racist elf hating nord that's your prerogative, but pretending that the in universe excuses someone would make for that racism aren't just bigotry is silly.

Just block him. He has no interest in debating, he just wants to push propaganda.

Says the person who's entire opinion seems to have been formed after just seeing the encounter between Rolff and Suvaris.