The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[Valrifell]

Exactly. The Empire isn't good for the people of Skyrim per se, but the alternative is worse.

What part of what I said gave you the idea that I support that rhetoric?

The fact I misread your post

I don't like the Empire, but I think that Ulfric Stormcloak is simply too much of a dumbass to lead Skyrim toward prosperity.

[North German Realm]

What part of what I said gave you the idea that I support that rhetoric?

The fact I misread your post

I don't like the Empire, but I think that Ulfric Stormcloak is simply too much of a dumbass to lead Skyrim toward prosperity.

I don't particularly disagree with you, but I maintain that Skyrim is naturally incapable of reaching prosperity while it is part of the Empire. Mind you, my problem with a Stormcloak victory is much more pragmatic in nature. What'll happen after he dies? He has no heir and he's not about to procreate at the age he is.

[Valrifell]

Aaaand the game bugged and the "reporting for duty" dialogue won't show up when trying to reunify Skyrim during the "reclaim Winterhold Hold".

Thanks Todd Howard.

[North German Realm]

Aaaand the game bugged and the "reporting for duty" dialogue won't show up when trying to reunify Skyrim during the "reclaim Winterhold Hold".

Thanks Todd Howard.

In the Stormcloak equivalent mission for Morthal, you can fix it by punching the Jarl until she loses her health. Maybe that'll work?

[The Islands of Versilia]

NGL Elisif is a shit ruler IMO and completely lacks the qualities of a High Queen. Ulfric is a traitor, a coward and a puppet of the Thalmor. The only jarls I’d support becoming High King of High Queen is the Morthal Stormcloak Jarl (the seer, forgot her name), Jarl Ballin’. TLD is an obvious choice depending on how the player makes them as a character.

[San Lumen]

What's so bad about their ideology?

It castrates the Nords' ability to wage effective war. Its pacifist in nature, and it goes abnormally against the other aspects of Nordic religion in almost every way.

How so?

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

He also violated the Way of the Voice, both when he left High Hrothgar and when he had his duel with Torygg. The former at least could be seen as true need, to some extent, given how dangerous the Thalmor are. The latter though, well, it's not like Torygg was going to win in a fight regardless, and it was for purely political purposes. There aren't many other things besides outright villainy that would be more blasphemous to the Way of the Voice. Ulfric does follow the traditions of the Nords, but, only the ones he agrees with.

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

What do the Dunmer have to do with the Way of the Voice?

Other than beating the shit out of the Nords when they still used the Voice, that is.

[Ism]

He also violated the Way of the Voice, both when he left High Hrothgar and when he had his duel with Torygg. The former at least could be seen as true need, to some extent, given how dangerous the Thalmor are. The latter though, well, it's not like Torygg was going to win in a fight regardless, and it was for purely political purposes. There aren't many other things besides outright villainy that would be more blasphemous to the Way of the Voice. Ulfric does follow the traditions of the Nords, but, only the ones he agrees with.

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

It hasn't "castrated" the Nords ability to wage war, at worst it makes it harder for them to conquer other people, which isn't a bad thing, and as the Imperials show you don't need any special powers or abilities to do that anyway. Their ideology is also sensible, the Thu'um was given to the Nords by Kyne to help them free themselves, not so they could turn around and do to others what the dragons did to them. You can disagree with that, but that doesn't make it stupid.

NGL Elisif is a shit ruler IMO and completely lacks the qualities of a High Queen. Ulfric is a traitor, a coward and a puppet of the Thalmor. The only jarls I’d support becoming High King of High Queen is the Morthal Stormcloak Jarl (the seer, forgot her name), Jarl Ballin’. TLD is an obvious choice depending on how the player makes them as a character.

Elisif is inexperienced but well-meaning. From what we get to see of her, she could probably grow into a very good Jarl, or even a very good High Queen. At the moment, she's firmly in the middle of the pack so far as Jarls go. Not that that says much, mind you, considering there are six Jarls, Maven, Laila, Sidgeir, Igmund, Thongvor and Skald, who are just so terrible they make almost anyone else look amazing by comparison.

Also, the seer of Morthal is the Imperial Jarl, Idgrod Ravencrone.

[Valrifell]

Aaaand the game bugged and the "reporting for duty" dialogue won't show up when trying to reunify Skyrim during the "reclaim Winterhold Hold".

Thanks Todd Howard.

In the Stormcloak equivalent mission for Morthal, you can fix it by punching the Jarl until she loses her health. Maybe that'll work?

I've tried all the reccomended fixes I could find.

Clearing out a random fort near Markarth didn't work, using the cooking pit in the camp didn't work. neither did Fus Ro Dah'ing her. nor beating the shit out of her, nor talking to General Tullius again, nor did saving and loading, nor did fast traveling, nor beating the shit out of Korir (although that was satisfying).

Luckily I have a save from before I joined the Legion but, like, honestly that's annoying.

[North German Realm]

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

What do the Dunmer have to do with the Way of the Voice?

Other than beating the shit out of the Nords when they still used the Voice, that is.

I mean, it's pretty much exactly that. The Voice lets Nords not need pretty much anything a usual army needs (they don't need siege weapons, they don't need battlemages, they pretty much don't need any logistics because they have some guy who can twist the laws of nature by whispering). Then comes Jurgen Windcaller. He suffers a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Dunmer, where he -at least to some extent in his capacity as a "Great Tongue"- interacts with the guy who's largest claim to fame is that he had a ring that made people do what he suggested and that literally nobody else could wear, and he suddenly decides that the thing that pretty much made them a useful fighting force (as opposed to angry naked humans coming at you with a pointy stick) is ackshully meant for pacifist worship? That's pretty much as close as you can get to "Jurgen was Moon-and-Star'd but we don't talk about it because he ate everyone else's voice and asserted dominance by T-Posing to show us he was superior" without outright saying it.

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

It hasn't "castrated" the Nords ability to wage war, at worst it makes it harder for them to conquer other people, which isn't a bad thing, and as the Imperials show you don't need any special powers or abilities to do that anyway. Their ideology is also sensible, the Thu'um was given to the Nords by Kyne to help them free themselves, not so they could turn around and do to others what the dragons did to them. You can disagree with that, but that doesn't make it stupid.

That's not my problem with the ideology. The problem is the pacifism part. Nords worship by fighting. Virtually every aspect of their religion that isn't totemic and/or elemental is warlike. Telling them that Kyne totes meant they were supposed use the Voice to worship the divines is at best bullshit and at most actively trying to stop them from being a menace to their neighbors. Tho I am unsure if the "Way of the Voice" was actually canon Pre-Skyrim too or not.

[The Imperial Reach]

What do the Dunmer have to do with the Way of the Voice?

Other than beating the shit out of the Nords when they still used the Voice, that is.

I mean, it's pretty much exactly that. The Voice lets Nords not need pretty much anything a usual army needs (they don't need siege weapons, they don't need battlemages, they pretty much don't need any logistics because they have some guy who can twist the laws of nature by whispering). Then comes Jurgen Windcaller. He suffers a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Dunmer, where he -at least to some extent in his capacity as a "Great Tongue"- interacts with the guy who's largest claim to fame is that he had a ring that made people do what he suggested and that literally nobody else could wear, and he suddenly decides that the thing that pretty much made them a useful fighting force (as opposed to angry naked humans coming at you with a pointy stick) is ackshully meant for pacifist worship? That's pretty much as close as you can get to "Jurgen was Moon-and-Star'd but we don't talk about it because he ate everyone else's voice and asserted dominance by T-Posing to show us he was superior" without outright saying it.

It hasn't "castrated" the Nords ability to wage war, at worst it makes it harder for them to conquer other people, which isn't a bad thing, and as the Imperials show you don't need any special powers or abilities to do that anyway. Their ideology is also sensible, the Thu'um was given to the Nords by Kyne to help them free themselves, not so they could turn around and do to others what the dragons did to them. You can disagree with that, but that doesn't make it stupid.

That's not my problem with the ideology. The problem is the pacifism part. Nords worship by fighting. Virtually every aspect of their religion that isn't totemic and/or elemental is warlike. Telling them that Kyne totes meant they were supposed use the Voice to worship the divines is at best bullshit and at most actively trying to stop them from being a menace to their neighbors. Tho I am unsure if the "Way of the Voice" was actually canon Pre-Skyrim too or not.

How typical of the pro-Stormcloak crowd to find Dunmer conspiracies where none exist.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I mean, it's pretty much exactly that. The Voice lets Nords not need pretty much anything a usual army needs (they don't need siege weapons, they don't need battlemages, they pretty much don't need any logistics because they have some guy who can twist the laws of nature by whispering). Then comes Jurgen Windcaller. He suffers a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Dunmer, where he -at least to some extent in his capacity as a "Great Tongue"- interacts with the guy who's largest claim to fame is that he had a ring that made people do what he suggested and that literally nobody else could wear, and he suddenly decides that the thing that pretty much made them a useful fighting force (as opposed to angry naked humans coming at you with a pointy stick) is ackshully meant for pacifist worship? That's pretty much as close as you can get to "Jurgen was Moon-and-Star'd but we don't talk about it because he ate everyone else's voice and asserted dominance by T-Posing to show us he was superior" without outright saying it.

That's not my problem with the ideology. The problem is the pacifism part. Nords worship by fighting. Virtually every aspect of their religion that isn't totemic and/or elemental is warlike. Telling them that Kyne totes meant they were supposed use the Voice to worship the divines is at best bullshit and at most actively trying to stop them from being a menace to their neighbors. Tho I am unsure if the "Way of the Voice" was actually canon Pre-Skyrim too or not.

How typical of the pro-Stormcloak crowd to find Dunmer conspiracies where none exist.

There’s a lesson in here.

[The Imperial Reach]

How typical of the pro-Stormcloak crowd to find Dunmer conspiracies where none exist.

There’s a lesson in here.

That Oldprick Smallcock is a bigot and so are his supporters? You could figure that out the minute you walk into Windhelm and find two dumb Nords threatening to torture a woman.

[The Imperial Reach]

The only difference between the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor in ideology is that the latter want to destroy the world.

They're both still pissmops.

[The first Galactic Republic]

There’s a lesson in here.

That Oldprick Smallcock is a bigot and so are his supporters? You could figure that out the minute you walk into Windhelm and find two dumb Nords threatening to torture a woman.

Honestly more in the kinds of people who will stan the questionable figures of Elder Scrolls RL.

But I’m not going to get too into that.

[The Imperial Reach]

That Oldprick Smallcock is a bigot and so are his supporters? You could figure that out the minute you walk into Windhelm and find two dumb Nords threatening to torture a woman.

Honestly more in the kinds of people who will stan the questionable figures of Elder Scrolls RL.

But I’m not going to get too into that.

Stanning in general is just weird. Ulfric's Cult of Personality is a weird one. The guy is neither charismatic nor accomplished. He's just a grumpy old xenophobe.

[Dresderstan]

Honestly more in the kinds of people who will stan the questionable figures of Elder Scrolls RL.

But I’m not going to get too into that.

Stanning in general is just weird. Ulfric's Cult of Personality is a weird one. The guy is neither charismatic nor accomplished. He's just a grumpy old xenophobe.

You have not lived until you've seen the massive cult fanbases of so many female artists and how unbelievable they are.

Literally the only thing Ulfric has going for him is being taught by the Greybeards and maybe helping put down the Forsworn, but he was a POW who was tortured to confess and believe that his secrets caused the Imperial City to fall, even though it had already fallen. And he doesn't even follow The Way Of The Voice anymore, he left them just to go and fight the Dominion, essentially going against all the teaches they taught him.

[The Emerald Legion]

There’s a lesson in here.

That Oldprick Smallcock is a bigot and so are his supporters? You could figure that out the minute you walk into Windhelm and find two dumb Nords threatening to torture a woman.

... You mean the woman who openly says it's not her fight to help the Stormcloaks in any way despite the life and death struggle her neighbors are in.

The woman who also notes that the man doing that is head and shoulders the worst of those prejudiced against dark Elves?

The woman who's theory's about prejudice are fairly well disproven by the Altmer who runs a shop in the Nords Market?

But yes. Solitude, run by the people who cut random peoples heads off with no trial, who your introduction to is someone literally being publically executed.

Totally fine place.

[The Imperial Reach]

... You mean the woman who openly says it's not her fight to help the Stormcloaks in any way despite the life and death struggle her neighbors are in.

The life and death struggle the Stormcloaks brought on Talos worshipers themselves, you mean? Or did you forget that the Justiciars didn't show up until after the Markarth Incident where Ulfric let the city burn and bleed until he got the Empire to break the peace treaty it signed?

The woman who also notes that the man doing that is head and shoulders the worst of those prejudiced against dark Elves?

And yet also notices that most of the Nords in Windhelm don't care for them. The only obvious exceptions being Brunwulf, Susanna, and maybe the Shatter-Shields (who still treat Argonians like trash anyway).

The woman who's theory's about prejudice are fairly well disproven by the Altmer who runs a shop in the Nords Market?

You mean the same Altmer who deals with criminal elements and bribery? Who works just across from a stall run by a Dunmer who seems to have just as much problems with Nordic bigots as every other Dunmer? The one who openly admits she faced discrimination when she first arrived and only got respect by kowtowing to the Nords?

But yes. Solitude, run by the people who cut random peoples heads off with no trial, who your introduction to is someone literally being publically executed.

Who said anything about Solitude? Nice misdirection.

Traitorous gate guards aren't "random people", and what need is there for a trial when you're caught in the act of committing a crime? Besides that, who exactly states there was no trial? I don't remember anyone saying as much.

But forgive me if I don't jump to defend a man who allowed his liege to be murdered and then let the murderer escape. God forbid guards actually protect their lords, amirite?

Totally fine place.

You're right, the city that completely lacks racial segregation is definitely a fine place. Especially when it's ruled by a Jarl that actually takes the needs and concerns of it's citizens seriously instead of leaving them to die at the hands of bandits because they committed the crime of being ethnically foreign.

[The Imperial Reach]

Thieves Guild questline revised:

• Remove everything involving Nocturnal and give her a proper Daedric Quest for the Skeleton Key.
• Keep the Mercer-betrayed-Gallus-and-framed-Karliah plot as there's nothing wrong with it but remove the Nightingale stuff.
• Instead of the Thieves Guild gimping for Maven Black-Briar have her be their primary antagonist whose operations are being disrupted by the Guild and restore the Guild's original, more noble Robin Hood-esque nature like in Oblivion.
• Guild has fallen on hard times not because of any curse by Nocturnal but because Mercer is in Maven's pocket and is deliberately sabotaging the Guild for his own, personal gain.
• Remove all the thuggish behavior and banditry so they're properly thieves again instead of glorified mob enforcers.
• Remove any connection to the Dark Brotherhood because that makes no sense at all.
• Re-implement the fines imposed by the Guild for killing people like Oblivion had (they're thieves, not murderers)
• Remove the obviousness of Maven's criminal activities (she literally confesses to your face in public if you ask! Wtf?) and make her appear more kindly and welcoming to throw off suspicion, making Laila's belief she's a law-abiding-citizen more believable.
• Re-locate the Thieves Guild HQ elsewhere in the Ratway so it's actually hidden instead of so well-known an army of Sellswords could easily march in and clear it out; the location should be a secret, not a well-known fact.
• Mjoll gives you an option to destroy the Guild rather than join it, but this directly helps Maven to Mjoll's ignorance as she now incorrectly believes they're working for Maven due to a misunderstanding; Maven rewards you for destroying the Guild.
• Mercer betraying you, Karliah clearing both your names and exposing Mercer's betrayal, and the final confrontation with Mercer can stay but the quest should end with exposing Maven for her many crimes of which there are so many that Laila/the Empire can't ignore it and has her and Hemming (who is already complicit in her illegal activities) arrested; Sibbi is already in jail so no biggie there, but in this case Maven has publicly "disowned" him (not really, he still gets to live comfortable in his cell because corruption).
• Civil War Imperial control over Riften dependent outcome for Maven's Jarldom: Thieves Guild complete before Imperials take Riften/Stormcloaks win Civil War, she and Hemming just go straight to jail and Saerlund becomes Jarl instead. Thieves Guild complete after Imperials take Riften, Maven is removed from power and all her Imperial contacts hang her out to dry - she and her sons then mysteriously "die" in prison while the guard watching them was "sleeping" (she knew too much, so her Imperial friends bumped her and her sons off but leave Ingun alone as she had nothing to do with it; Ingun now inherits the entire Black-Briar fortune and disavows her family members) and Saerlund becomes Jarl.
• Thieves Guild members are now ordinary citizens by day and thieves by night, like in Oblivion, rather than just sitting in a smelly sewer all day every day.
• Brynjolf isn't running an obvious scam out in the open in full view of everyone, nor is open about his criminal activities to your face IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. You have to talk to beggars to get in the Thieves Guild, just like in Oblivion. He also doesn't have you frame an innocent man because that's not what Thieves do.
• Nightingales are now part of Nocturnal's Daedric Quest and have nothing to do with the Guild.

[The Emerald Legion]

... You mean the woman who openly says it's not her fight to help the Stormcloaks in any way despite the life and death struggle her neighbors are in.

The life and death struggle the Stormcloaks brought on Talos worshipers themselves, you mean? Or did you forget that the Justiciars didn't show up until after the Markarth Incident where Ulfric let the city burn and bleed until he got the Empire to break the peace treaty it signed?

The woman who also notes that the man doing that is head and shoulders the worst of those prejudiced against dark Elves?

And yet also notices that most of the Nords in Windhelm don't care for them. The only obvious exceptions being Brunwulf, Susanna, and maybe the Shatter-Shields (who still treat Argonians like trash anyway).

The woman who's theory's about prejudice are fairly well disproven by the Altmer who runs a shop in the Nords Market?

You mean the same Altmer who deals with criminal elements and bribery? Who works just across from a stall run by a Dunmer who seems to have just as much problems with Nordic bigots as every other Dunmer? The one who openly admits she faced discrimination when she first arrived and only got respect by kowtowing to the Nords?

But yes. Solitude, run by the people who cut random peoples heads off with no trial, who your introduction to is someone literally being publically executed.

Who said anything about Solitude? Nice misdirection.

Traitorous gate guards aren't "random people", and what need is there for a trial when you're caught in the act of committing a crime? Besides that, who exactly states there was no trial? I don't remember anyone saying as much.

But forgive me if I don't jump to defend a man who allowed his liege to be murdered and then let the murderer escape. God forbid guards actually protect their lords, amirite?

Totally fine place.

You're right, the city that completely lacks racial segregation is definitely a fine place. Especially when it's ruled by a Jarl that actually takes the needs and concerns of it's citizens seriously instead of leaving them to die at the hands of bandits because they committed the crime of being ethnically foreign.

Do you honestly believe the Thalmor would not have found some excuse to crack down? Markarth Incident or no. The Aldmeri Dominion's very survival hinges upon their ability to tear the Empire apart with prolonged unrest and constant dragged out rebellion. They have no army left to face a second great war. They're down to the dregs needed to keep up appearances and elves reproduce more slowly than men. Also, it wasn't a peace treaty. It was a surrender, made after the Empire had won the war.

Yes. The people of Windhelm have no reason to take them in, and yet they did. That the Dark Elves response is ingratitude and refusal to fight alongside them in a life and death struggle that involves them too is not endearing.

Of course. The Dark Elves don't try to act like part of Windhelm. I'm sure if you put the Battle-Borns from Whiterun in Windhelm, they'd get just as much, if not MORE shit.

Yes. Also, it's not Kow-Towing to respect the local culture and fit yourself to the place you live.

No, but the Dragonborn is. Or don't you remember 'Forget the List, they go to the block.'? Given that standard of Criminal justice.... Kinda expecting them to execute a lot of people they shouldn't.

Completely lacks Racial Segregation huh? Remind me, of the Thanes.... are any Mer? Are there literally any Argonians in the city that aren't Dockworkers or Criminals? Of the Mer, are there any Dunmer? At all. Anywhere. No. There's not. There's a fair number of Altmer though. Y'know the same people whom the nation of Genocidal Maniacs the Empire is trying to maintain a peace treaty with think are the master race and would likely react poorly to their being openly mistreated. Additionally, you might notice that absolutely noone of military authority is an Altmer or anything but an imperial or nord.

[The Islands of Versilia]

I’m not the only one who’s just learned you can hand in the Elder Scrolls to the College and Dexion? Like damn. It feels like a “adventure’s over, time to kick up your feet and retire” moment.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I’m not the only one who’s just learned you can hand in the Elder Scrolls to the College and Dexion? Like damn. It feels like a “adventure’s over, time to kick up your feet and retire” moment.

Personally I like giving the Elder Scroll to the College if for no other reason than because it makes the orc librarian treat you well. It also makes me feel like a real Archmage, finding ancient artifacts for the college’s collection.

Just make sure to do the Dawnguard quests before giving it to the librarian, else you might have to buy it back.

[The Islands of Versilia]

I’m not the only one who’s just learned you can hand in the Elder Scrolls to the College and Dexion? Like damn. It feels like a “adventure’s over, time to kick up your feet and retire” moment.

Personally I like giving the Elder Scroll to the College if for no other reason than because it makes the orc librarian treat you well. It also makes me feel like a real Archmage, finding ancient artifacts for the college’s collection.

Just make sure to do the Dawnguard quests before giving it to the librarian, else you might have to buy it back.

I did the whole Dawnguard storyline without knowing you could give it away. I gave the (Dragon) Elder Scroll to the Orc librarian and the other two to Dexian.

Also I encouraged Serana to cure her vampirism. It feels like a good end to the whole Dawnguard thing, though I haven’t gotten a single crossbow upgrade since the first location was on Solstheim and I’m putting off the whole Solstheim thing until I’m pretty much done in the mainland.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Personally I like giving the Elder Scroll to the College if for no other reason than because it makes the orc librarian treat you well. It also makes me feel like a real Archmage, finding ancient artifacts for the college’s collection.

Just make sure to do the Dawnguard quests before giving it to the librarian, else you might have to buy it back.

I did the whole Dawnguard storyline without knowing you could give it away. I gave the (Dragon) Elder Scroll to the Orc librarian and the other two to Dexian.

Also I encouraged Serana to cure her vampirism. It feels like a good end to the whole Dawnguard thing, though I haven’t gotten a single crossbow upgrade since the first location was on Solstheim and I’m putting off the whole Solstheim thing until I’m pretty much done in the mainland.

Fuck Solstheim being a location for random loot in mainland quests.

Also boo for forcing Serana to cure her vampirism.