The Skyrim/Elder Scrolls thread

[Valrifell]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

[The Islands of Versilia]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

I would add that he also most likely violated Nordic traditions by murdering the High King with his thu’um when Torygg wasn’t a Tongue nor was he expecting it. Ulfric displayed his cowardice by not defeating Torygg through honourable combat.

[Valrifell]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

I would add that he also most likely violated Nordic traditions by murdering the High King with his thu’um when Torygg wasn’t a Tongue nor was he expecting it. Ulfric displayed his cowardice by not defeating Torygg through honourable combat.

He also displayed his cowardice by surrendering to an Imperial ambush instead of dying in honorable combat to gain entry into Sovngarde.

Absolutely bullshit that he canonically gets a place up there when he dies. You're telling me this man defeated Tsun? (x)

[San Lumen]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

I would add that he also most likely violated Nordic traditions by murdering the High King with his thu’um when Torygg wasn’t a Tongue nor was he expecting it. Ulfric displayed his cowardice by not defeating Torygg through honourable combat.

He also displayed his cowardice by surrendering to an Imperial ambush instead of dying in honorable combat to gain entry into Sovngarde.

Absolutely bullshit that he canonically gets a place up there when he dies. You're telling me this man defeated Tsun? (x)

If I recall correctly he’s not seen in the Great Hall only in the outdoor area

[The Emerald Legion]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

I would add that he also most likely violated Nordic traditions by murdering the High King with his thu’um when Torygg wasn’t a Tongue nor was he expecting it. Ulfric displayed his cowardice by not defeating Torygg through honourable combat.

He killed him with his sword. Technically keeping to the terms of the duel.

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

Because the Moot might choose incorrectly.

[San Lumen]

I would add that he also most likely violated Nordic traditions by murdering the High King with his thu’um when Torygg wasn’t a Tongue nor was he expecting it. Ulfric displayed his cowardice by not defeating Torygg through honourable combat.

He killed him with his sword. Technically keeping to the terms of the duel.

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

Because the Moot might choose incorrectly.

Half the jarl’s already supported him with only one refusing to to take a side

[Valrifell]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

Because he was scared that he would lose in a legitimate election for High King, of course. So he took the cowards way out and refused to join in any Moot, so none could proceed. He then betrayed the traditions of Skyrim and unilaterally declared himself High King, highly irregular.

[San Lumen]

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

Because he was scared that he would lose in a legitimate election for High King, of course. So he took the cowards way out and refused to join in any Moot, so none could proceed. He then betrayed the traditions of Skyrim and unilaterally declared himself High King, highly irregular.

Yet he had the support of Half the Jarls and only one refused to pick a side. He could have easily won.

[Valrifell]

Because he was scared that he would lose in a legitimate election for High King, of course. So he took the cowards way out and refused to join in any Moot, so none could proceed. He then betrayed the traditions of Skyrim and unilaterally declared himself High King, highly irregular.

Yet he had the support of Half the Jarls and only one refused to pick a side. He could have easily won.

Balgruuf hates Ulfric, though. They've been feuding since before the war, he would've lost the Moot.

Not that it makes his course of action legitimate.

[North German Realm]

That made no sense. Why not hold the Moot and prevent the war?

Because he was scared that he would lose in a legitimate election for High King, of course. So he took the cowards way out and refused to join in any Moot, so none could proceed. He then betrayed the traditions of Skyrim and unilaterally declared himself High King, highly irregular.

That's... not exactly canon. We have no actual evidence why there was no moot, though the fact that the Empire declared the succession war an "Active insurrection" probably has more to do with it than "Ulfric just wanted to kill people". With that in mind, he wouldn't win the moot anyway (Balgruuf wouldn't vote for him, and the New Holds would probably align themselves with Elisif, even though her claim to the throne is even flimsier than Ulfric's. So unless everyone out of the Old Holds voted for themselves in a most Pirates of Caribbean fashion, it's either a tie or Elisif on the throne.)

[San Lumen]

Because he was scared that he would lose in a legitimate election for High King, of course. So he took the cowards way out and refused to join in any Moot, so none could proceed. He then betrayed the traditions of Skyrim and unilaterally declared himself High King, highly irregular.

That's... not exactly canon. We have no actual evidence why there was no moot, though the fact that the Empire declared the succession war an "Active insurrection" probably has more to do with it than "Ulfric just wanted to kill people". With that in mind, he wouldn't win the moot anyway (Balgruuf wouldn't vote for him, and the New Holds would probably align themselves with Elisif, even though her claim to the throne is even flimsier than Ulfric's. So unless everyone out of the Old Holds voted for themselves in a most Pirates of Caribbean fashion, it's either a tie or Elisif on the throne.)

But if Elisif's claim so flimsy why would she get support? It would be a stalemate

[Aeritai]

I was able to get Auriel's shield last night haven't used it much, but I heard it was good.

[North German Realm]

That's... not exactly canon. We have no actual evidence why there was no moot, though the fact that the Empire declared the succession war an "Active insurrection" probably has more to do with it than "Ulfric just wanted to kill people". With that in mind, he wouldn't win the moot anyway (Balgruuf wouldn't vote for him, and the New Holds would probably align themselves with Elisif, even though her claim to the throne is even flimsier than Ulfric's. So unless everyone out of the Old Holds voted for themselves in a most Pirates of Caribbean fashion, it's either a tie or Elisif on the throne.)

But if Elisif's claim so flimsy why would she get support? It would be a stalemate

Elisif would get support specifically because of the same reason four of the nine holds (the New Holds) back her in the Civil War. Because the alternative is some guy in Windhelm. And honestly no. It wouldn't be a stalemate. This is one case where either Ulfric wins (Because the Old Holds pretty much worship him like an old god) or Elisif does (because 5>4 and Balgruuf would not vote for Ulfric, no matter what)

[San Lumen]

But if Elisif's claim so flimsy why would she get support? It would be a stalemate

Elisif would get support specifically because of the same reason four of the nine holds (the New Holds) back her in the Civil War. Because the alternative is some guy in Windhelm. And honestly no. It wouldn't be a stalemate. This is one case where either Ulfric wins (Because the Old Holds pretty much worship him like an old god) or Elisif does (because 5>4 and Balgruuf would not vote for Ulfric, no matter what)

how do you get Ulfric winning if Balgruuf would never support him? It seems like it would would Elsif no matter what

[The Imperial Reach]

Ulfric does break tradition by killing Torygg, though. The High King of Skyrim in ESO explains this, IIRC. You're not supposed to kill your opponent as it's considered dishonorable.

The fact he surrenders to Tullius before the game starts, Shouts Torygg to the ground before killing him while he's defensrless, and how he hides in his palace during the Battle of Windhelm just further proves he's a coward.

[Valrifell]

Ulfric does break tradition by killing Torygg, though. The High King of Skyrim in ESO explains this, IIRC. You're not supposed to kill your opponent as it's considered dishonorable.

The fact he surrenders to Tullius before the game starts, Shouts Torygg to the ground before killing him while he's defensrless, and how he hides in his palace during the Battle of Windhelm just further proves he's a coward.

Personally, as Dragonborn, I like to Unrelenting Force him when I take Windhelm. Turnabout is fair play.

[North German Realm]

Elisif would get support specifically because of the same reason four of the nine holds (the New Holds) back her in the Civil War. Because the alternative is some guy in Windhelm. And honestly no. It wouldn't be a stalemate. This is one case where either Ulfric wins (Because the Old Holds pretty much worship him like an old god) or Elisif does (because 5>4 and Balgruuf would not vote for Ulfric, no matter what)

how do you get Ulfric winning if Balgruuf would never support him? It seems like it would would Elsif no matter what

He has four supporters. All he needs is 2 of the 4 New Holds not to vote for Elisif (4>3), or for one of them not to vote for Elisif and Balgruuf to vote for himself. Which is what would happen if virtually any person other than Ulfric Fucking Stormcloak had been the one doing this.

Ulfric does break tradition by killing Torygg, though. The High King of Skyrim in ESO explains this, IIRC. You're not supposed to kill your opponent as it's considered dishonorable.

The fact he surrenders to Tullius before the game starts, Shouts Torygg to the ground before killing him while he's defensrless, and how he hides in his palace during the Battle of Windhelm just further proves he's a coward.

Killing your fallen opponent is a dick move and it's shitty, but the problem is that it is acceptable. It's not supposed to happen and its a dick move and a sign of your dishonor but it doesn't retroactively delegitimize the duel itself. The Empire's argument is that the duel in its entirety was illegitimate in the first place.

[North German Realm]

Ulfric does break tradition by killing Torygg, though. The High King of Skyrim in ESO explains this, IIRC. You're not supposed to kill your opponent as it's considered dishonorable.

The fact he surrenders to Tullius before the game starts, Shouts Torygg to the ground before killing him while he's defensrless, and how he hides in his palace during the Battle of Windhelm just further proves he's a coward.

Personally, as Dragonborn, I like to Unrelenting Force him when I take Windhelm. Turnabout is fair play.

I think the total number of times I didn't side with Ulfric on my games was 3. In 2 of which I just didn't do any of the Civil War quests and 1 which I just felt shitty and dirty from the start to finish because my pause for supporting an idiot with a bunch of advisors even more stupid than him is still not as large as my utter hatred for the Empire as a concept, which I've had since Arena.

[San Lumen]

Personally, as Dragonborn, I like to Unrelenting Force him when I take Windhelm. Turnabout is fair play.

I think the total number of times I didn't side with Ulfric on my games was 3. In 2 of which I just didn't do any of the Civil War quests and 1 which I just felt shitty and dirty from the start to finish because my pause for supporting an idiot with a bunch of advisors even more stupid than him is still not as large as my utter hatred for the Empire as a concept, which I've had since Arena.

I only sided with the Stormcloaks once and I felt awful afterwards.

[Ism]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

He also violated the Way of the Voice, both when he left High Hrothgar and when he had his duel with Torygg. The former at least could be seen as true need, to some extent, given how dangerous the Thalmor are. The latter though, well, it's not like Torygg was going to win in a fight regardless, and it was for purely political purposes. There aren't many other things besides outright villainy that would be more blasphemous to the Way of the Voice. Ulfric does follow the traditions of the Nords, but, only the ones he agrees with.

Ulfric does break tradition by killing Torygg, though. The High King of Skyrim in ESO explains this, IIRC. You're not supposed to kill your opponent as it's considered dishonorable.

The fact he surrenders to Tullius before the game starts, Shouts Torygg to the ground before killing him while he's defensrless, and how he hides in his palace during the Battle of Windhelm just further proves he's a coward.

Personally, as Dragonborn, I like to Unrelenting Force him when I take Windhelm. Turnabout is fair play.

Unrelenting Force him and Galmar against the wall, then kill them while they're on the ground. Go around telling everybody how honorable you are.

I often let Tullius do the actual killing though.

[Valrifell]

Personally, as Dragonborn, I like to Unrelenting Force him when I take Windhelm. Turnabout is fair play.

I think the total number of times I didn't side with Ulfric on my games was 3. In 2 of which I just didn't do any of the Civil War quests and 1 which I just felt shitty and dirty from the start to finish because my pause for supporting an idiot with a bunch of advisors even more stupid than him is still not as large as my utter hatred for the Empire as a concept, which I've had since Arena.

Exactly. The Empire isn't good for the people of Skyrim per se, but the alternative is worse.

[San Lumen]

I think the total number of times I didn't side with Ulfric on my games was 3. In 2 of which I just didn't do any of the Civil War quests and 1 which I just felt shitty and dirty from the start to finish because my pause for supporting an idiot with a bunch of advisors even more stupid than him is still not as large as my utter hatred for the Empire as a concept, which I've had since Arena.

Exactly. The Empire isn't good for the people of Skyrim per se, but the alternative is worse.

A United Empire is better for everyone

[North German Realm]

Kinda crazy that Ulfric claims to be for the traditions of the Nords, yet holds off and refuses to hold a Moot to elect a new High King and just calls himself that anyway.

He also violated the Way of the Voice, both when he left High Hrothgar and when he had his duel with Torygg. The former at least could be seen as true need, to some extent, given how dangerous the Thalmor are. The latter though, well, it's not like Torygg was going to win in a fight regardless, and it was for purely political purposes. There aren't many other things besides outright villainy that would be more blasphemous to the Way of the Voice. Ulfric does follow the traditions of the Nords, but, only the ones he agrees with.

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

Exactly. The Empire isn't good for the people of Skyrim per se, but the alternative is worse.

What part of what I said gave you the idea that I support that rhetoric?

A United Empire is better for everyone

Categorically False.

[San Lumen]

He also violated the Way of the Voice, both when he left High Hrothgar and when he had his duel with Torygg. The former at least could be seen as true need, to some extent, given how dangerous the Thalmor are. The latter though, well, it's not like Torygg was going to win in a fight regardless, and it was for purely political purposes. There aren't many other things besides outright villainy that would be more blasphemous to the Way of the Voice. Ulfric does follow the traditions of the Nords, but, only the ones he agrees with.

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

What's so bad about their ideology?

[North German Realm]

Frankly the Way of the Voice is a Dunmer plot created to permanently castrate the Nords' ability to wage effective war and can go fuck itself. Not giving a fuck about the Greybeards' retarded ideology is one of the few things Ulfric actually has right.

What's so bad about their ideology?

It castrates the Nords' ability to wage effective war. Its pacifist in nature, and it goes abnormally against the other aspects of Nordic religion in almost every way.