The Fallout Thread

[Sovaal]

Daily reminder that the Legion is the best faction.

I'd take the pseudo-Fascist East Coast Brotherhood over them, and I don't even like them (well, all the gear is pretty cool).

[Alekseandrea]

1.Is the institute wrong to value life cheaply?
Human lifes in the commonwealth are by most standards not worth much.

2.So that's like 20 people. In total. And to be fair, Kellog did give them 48 hours to give him the data. The institute didn't know that they hadn't found the data yet. If they had given the institute access to the terminals, they might have survived.


3.The minuteman is a cult of personality.
They're like a standing army without a steady source of income or working command structure.
If you've got a few bad harvests or can't feed them for some other reason, minutemen will become raiders. If you've got weak leadership they'll collapse. If they lose their radio, they'll collapse. This has happened before, so why wouldn't it happen again after the SS passes away?

4.I don't know what to think about the farmers banding together and all. If they banded together effectively, where did the raiders get their food? There's an awful lot of raiders for the amount of farmers.

5.The institute is the faction who is capable of improving the quality of life the most.

6.The BoS is the best suited for making and keeping the commonwealth safe.

7.And the minutemen are the least stable organisation, the most vulnerable organisation AND the least capable of keeping the commonwealth safe.

8.They have the moral high ground, sure, but I doubt that many people in the commonwealth care about that.

1. Yes. If civilization is going to be rebuilt, the idea that human life should be protected rather than cheaply thrown away at a whim, or be the subject of random experiments, needs to be reinstated.

Well, the problem here is that human lifes that are USEFUL should be protected. Not all human lifes. Here useful means "useful to the group you are a member of". Why is this necessary? Because you've got raiders, super mutants, feral ghouls and human railroad supporters running around. They endanger human lifes while being themselves human. But they aren't useable if one wants to rebuild society. You can't taze them into unconsciousness and lock them all up. That's impractical. Thus you only protect the lifes of people useful to the goals of your group. You can't copy ideals from a peaceful society in a near-anarchy and expect them to work.

Look at the NCR in nv. People get shot when they steal anything. No matter how small. Yet they clearly have a working society.
They don't value humsn lifes highly.
Look at their "throw more men at it" approach to defeat the BOS at helios 1.

2. They didn't bother to check for themselves either before slaughtering the town. And from Nick's dialogue he mentions similar events in plural, this is a fairly common thing for the Institute to do.

The girl tried to sell the data before she had it.
Anyone would assume they had already found the data.
I doubt they're the first who tried the "We really don't have it. Honest."-excuse.

3. The Minuteman organization that died long before the SS woke up was that, true. The Minutemen in game, is an organization rebuilt from scratch. The structure of which depending entirely on what the SS does with it.

Not exactly. It's more what Preston does with it.
And he builds the whole organisation like the old minutemen.
The SS is just the figurehead who does the dirty work.

And weak leadership and communication issues is something that all factions are at risk of. Do you think the BoS could be as powerful as it is without Maxson taking the helm? Do you think it would remain strong after his death?

Yes. It would. If Maxon dies, he'll simply get replaced by the other elders or his chapter. The BoS are essentially raiders. If they want food on the table, they need to maintain the status quo. Perhaps they'll be less or more aggressive, but that's it really. They'll still steal tech, kill undesirables, extort farmers and spout propaganda.

Do you think the Institute would remain stable if the director was a weak and/or severely polarizing figure? There are two rebellions that happen in the Institute in-game, one from scientists infuriated by Shaun's decision to select you as successor,

That isn't something that could end the institute, it merely might affect the leadership.

and one from the Synths tired of the Institute's shit (with the Railroad lighting the match).

Well, there is always a fringe group somewhere that wants to ruin it for everyone. This rebellion doesn't get started unless the fringe group is really, really, really lucky to have a competent member in the right position called the SS.

Instability and fracturing is something that no faction is safe from.

But the minutemen are especially vulnerable.
Their unclear chain of command, vigilante style of volunteering, decentralised manpower and dependency on the goodwill of settlers for food and funds are glaring weaknesses.

4. My point is, the common people of the Commonwealth are able to stand for themselves and improve their own lives. Raiders are a problem, yes, but according to the Finch's dialogue the Commonwealth was much worse in the decades before, and common people improved it.

I doubt it gets any worse than the current state. Look at a random farmer, if we trust the in-game mechanics, he can provide for himself and 5 others. The farmer to raider ratio alone is more than 1:5. It could easily be 1:10. I don't believe that the situation can be worse. The raiders would need to be half-starving to maintain the ratio. It clearly isn't a sustainable situation. There must have been a massive recruitment of raiders or a whole bunch of slaughtered farmers to achieve the current situation from a sustainable balance. Neither are really positive. So how exactly do you get a worse situation?

5. Wrong. The Institute is best for keeping the Institute's quality of life improving.

Improving? Their living standards are on par with today's standards for a high quality of life.
I don't really see how they could improve much.

They have little to no interest in making other peoples' lives better, and honestly I don't think even a SS led Institute could change that. The mindset of the entire Institute can't be changed by one person, and you can't afford to piss off the entire Institute because you need them as your power base. And they're not mindlessly loyal to you, and have proven they can use force against you.

This is also true for the minutemen and the BoS.

If you want quality of life to improve for the Commonwealth as a whole, then you side with the Minutemen. Because what do you do as the Minutemen? You build and protect settlements, and in those settlements you build stores, food centers, medical clinics, surgeons, guard posts, etc. and you unite the settlements by establishing trade routes. You're literally setting up the foundations of a new nation, like the NCR. This directly and in-game improves life in the Commonwealth. The Institute does not offer and will not offer any such help.

Villages, not nation. There is no unifying idea, ideology or anything really.
That wont last long.

The institute tried working with the rabble before it failed.
By now, the populace won't even accept their help it if they got it.

I don't blame the institute for not trying the impossible.

6. So long as it's in their interests to do so. Sure, they protected Rivet City in the Capital Wasteland, at least until they needed a reactor for the Prydwen, so they tore out the city's only power source and left.

I meant safe in terms of safe from ghouls, super mutants or raiders. Which in the wasteland is, very, very safe. Stealing a reactor might have ruined some people's quality of life, sure, but they're still save from the aforementioned threats.

7. The Minuteman faction that was destroyed, was that, yes. But the old Minuteman faction also didn't establish new settlements and trade routes like the SS led Minuteman did either. It's a re-founding of the organization, but it can't be said that they will fall into the same pitfalls as the previous organization.

The old and the new operate on the same principles. The building of new settlements and trade routes doesn't change that. The weaknesses are therefore still the same.

8. Tell that to all of Preston's fans in-game. When you have him as a follower (and it's very understandable if you don't), random NPCs will come up to him and tell him how much they appreciate the Minutemen and what they're doing. When trading Preston out for other companions, several (mostly the "good" ones) will say similar things. So yes, the common people of the Commonwealth actually do prefer the Minutemen.

The common people in the commonwealth are raiders. It's really surprising how much of those buggers are around. I don't think they like the minutemen.

[Salus Maior]

1.Well, the problem here is that human lifes that are USEFUL should be protected. Not all human lifes. Here useful means "useful to the group you are a member of". Why is this necessary? Because you've got raiders, super mutants, feral ghouls and human railroad supporters running around. They endanger human lifes while being themselves human. But they aren't useable if one wants to rebuild society. You can't taze them into unconsciousness and lock them all up. That's impractical. Thus you only protect the lifes of people useful to the goals of your group. You can't copy ideals from a peaceful society in a near-anarchy and expect them to work.

Look at the NCR in nv. People get shot when they steal anything. No matter how small. Yet they clearly have a working society.
They don't value humsn lifes highly.



2.The girl tried to sell the data before she had it.
Anyone would assume they had already found the data.
I doubt they're the first who tried the "We really don't have it. Honest."-excuse.


3.Not exactly. It's more what Preston does with it.
And he builds the whole organisation like the old minutemen.
The SS is just the figurehead who does the dirty work.


4.Yes. It would. If Maxon dies, he'll simply get replaced by the other elders or his chapter. The BoS are essentially raiders. If they want food on the table, they need to maintain the status quo. Perhaps they'll be less or more aggressive, but that's it really. They'll still steal tech, kill undesirables, extort farmers and spout propaganda.


5.That isn't something that could end the institute, it merely might affect the leadership.


6.But the minutemen are especially vulnerable.
Their unclear chain of command, vigilante style of volunteering, decentralised manpower and dependency on the goodwill of settlers for food and funds are glaring weaknesses.


7.I doubt it gets any worse than the current state. Look at a random farmer, if we trust the in-game mechanics, he can provide for himself and 5 others. The farmer to raider ratio alone is more than 1:5. It could easily be 1:10. I don't believe that the situation can be worse. The raiders would need to be half-starving to maintain the ratio. It clearly isn't a sustainable situation. There must have been a massive recruitment of raiders or a whole bunch of slaughtered farmers to achieve the current situation from a sustainable balance. Neither are really positive. So how exactly do you get a worse situation?


8.This is also true for the minutemen and the BoS.


9.Villages, not nation. There is no unifying idea, ideology or anything really.
That wont last long.

10.The institute tried working with the rabble before it failed.
By now, the populace won't even accept their help it if they got it.

I don't blame the institute for not trying the impossible.


11.I meant safe in terms of safe from ghouls, super mutants or raiders. Which in the wasteland is, very, very safe. Stealing a reactor might have ruined some people's quality of life, sure, but they're still save from the aforementioned threats.


12.The old and the new operate on the same principles. The building of new settlements and trade routes doesn't change that. The weaknesses are therefore still the same.


13.The common people in the commonwealth are raiders. It's really surprising how much of those buggers are around. I don't think they like the minutemen.

1. Force being used against people stealing or attacking each other is not the same as destroying entire towns based on the rumor that they have something you want. That's literally no different from being a raider, or the BoS, and that's not conducive to rebuilding civilization.

2. So why didn't the Institute try to buy it from her? Or attempt any kind of diplomatic action? It's not as if they don't have resources. It's because the Institute values nothing and no one on the surface, regardless of whether they're a raider or a farmer just trying to get by. They want to terrorize the surface so they don't get in the way of them playing god and unleashing whatever awful thing they want on the surface.

In fact, dialogue from the Courser companion OUTRIGHT STATES that the Institute wants the entirety of the surface dwellers to die out.

3. And again, that's wrong. Preston points you in the direction of settlements, but the Minutemen take orders from the SS. If you decide to destroy all the factions, the Minutemen follow your leadership, if you choose to side with any one faction, including the Institute, the Minutemen follow your order. It's the SS that builds settlements, establishes the trade routes, Preston does nothing with that. Outside of giving you fetch quests (which is gameplay), Preston really doesn't contribute anything to the structure of the Minutemen.

4. That depends entirely on who is picked to lead the BoS. The BoS has fractured before due to leadership, under Elder Lyons.


5. That depends entirely on how destructive the rebellion is, and how large it is.

6. I'm collecting taxes from settlement stores just fine. And again, those problems can be fixed because all the leaders of the Minutemen recognize that those were problems in the Old Minutemen.

7. Again, that's game limitation. And if you're going to ignore in-game dialogue stating the history of the Commonwealth prior to you waking up, that's your problem.

8. The SS is never in a position to lead the BoS anyway so I'm not sure why you're mentioning them. And the Minutemen have no issue with centralization or reforms to themselves, as Preston himself states they're in it for restoring civilization in the Commonwealth. And they'll follow the SS to that end.

9. Shady Sands was also a village at one point. And there is a unifying idea, the idea that people want improved standards of living, to be better protected from raiders and other dangerous factions, to rebuild civilization. People rally around the Minutemen and the aforementioned ideals they espouse, this is blatantly clear in the game itself as you play a Minutemen playthrough.

And note, it's possible in game to have nearly 50 settlers in each of your settlements given you max out charisma to the highest it can get. That's not much less than Diamond city. And you could probably get more settlers if the game didn't limit it by your charisma (and there are mods on the PC which do extend it). Sure, it's not even close to a modern city, but by Fallout standards that's substantial.

10. And by "it failed" you mean the Institute had everyone in the CPG murdered. Likely because, again, a unified surface, a civilized surface, is against their interests.


11. Again, only when it's in the BoS's interests. Sure, they go and purge caves and lairs, but when settlements are actually attacked they don't go out to help them. And it's very likely that Rivet city was completely destroyed by this act by the Brotherhood, after all, do you think that Rivet city just let them have it?


12. Yes, it does absolutely change that. You're saying that the Minutemen have no structure, but the Minutemen storyline is literally building structure and developing civilization. The settlement stores you build and trade routes you make, you, the General, get a cut of, and it can get very lucrative depending on how much you put into it. You're essentially collecting taxes.

The Minutemen become a structured organization as you play through their campaign and invest time into building structure. Sure, it's optional and it doesn't hold your hand, but it can be done.

13. I imagine they don't. But you understand what I was meaning.

[Yes Im Biop]

What are the odds Obsidian gets hired to make the next fallout? I really want them black sails boys back in the reigns, they can make something fun, and if they build it on top of F4 like they did with NV That could make a fucking spectacular game

[The Empire of Pretantia]

What are the odds Obsidian gets hired to make the next fallout? I really want them black sails boys back in the reigns, they can make something fun, and if they build it on top of F4 like they did with NV That could make a fucking spectacular game

No idea.

[The Flutterlands]

Archimedes I isn't killing anyone.... The alarms are just going off but no lazer... Why...?

[Yes Im Biop]

Archimedes I isn't killing anyone.... The alarms are just going off but no lazer... Why...?

Cause you have managed to hit every fucking bug in the game apperantly

[The Flutterlands]

Archimedes I isn't killing anyone.... The alarms are just going off but no lazer... Why...?

Cause you have managed to hit every fucking bug in the game apperantly

But why?

[Gloriana Americana]

Archimedes I isn't killing anyone.... The alarms are just going off but no lazer... Why...?

Is it after 9 AM and before 3 PM? It won't work otherwise if you try to start it up at any other point in the day.

[The Flutterlands]

Archimedes I isn't killing anyone.... The alarms are just going off but no lazer... Why...?

Is it after 9 AM and before 3 PM? It won't work otherwise if you try to start it up at any other point in the day.

I made sure it's after 9 am... The solar panels activate but no lazer.

[Yes Im Biop]

Cause you have managed to hit every fucking bug in the game apperantly

But why?

Because you have 1 luck apperantly

[The Flutterlands]

But why?

Because you have 1 luck apperantly

I got 7 actually.

[Yes Im Biop]

Because you have 1 luck apperantly

I got 7 actually.

Apparently not, your menu disappeared and now you got the good ol Space cannon no workie bug

[Gloriana Americana]

Is it after 9 AM and before 3 PM? It won't work otherwise if you try to start it up at any other point in the day.

I made sure it's after 9 am... The solar panels activate but no lazer.

Are the NCR troopers hostile? Because if so then it's a verified bug that occasionally happens. If you recruited Arcade, he'll have left your company too.

[The Flutterlands]

I made sure it's after 9 am... The solar panels activate but no lazer.

Are the NCR troopers hostile? Because if so then it's a verified bug that occasionally happens. If you recruited Arcade, he'll have left your company too.

Yes they become hostile. Wish there's a way to fix bug. Don't want to start whole game all over...

[Gloriana Americana]

Are the NCR troopers hostile? Because if so then it's a verified bug that occasionally happens. If you recruited Arcade, he'll have left your company too.

Yes they become hostile. Wish there's a way to fix bug. Don't want to start whole game all over...

Re-load a previous save. That usually does it.

[The Flutterlands]

Yes they become hostile. Wish there's a way to fix bug. Don't want to start whole game all over...

Re-load a previous save. That usually does it.

Don't you know how many times I've tried that?

[Gloriana Americana]

Re-load a previous save. That usually does it.

Don't you know how many times I've tried that?

Welp, you're gonna have to start a new game then.

You know, there's a mod on Nexus that is supposed to fix a shit ton of bugs and crashes. Maybe you should take a look at that?

[The Flutterlands]

Don't you know how many times I've tried that?

Welp, you're gonna have to start a new game then.

You know, there's a mod on Nexus that is supposed to fix a shit ton of bugs and crashes. Maybe you should take a look at that?

I think I got the patch.

I'm killing them myself...

[The Flutterlands]

Actually, I don't got it. Installing now.

[Yes Im Biop]

Don't you know how many times I've tried that?

Welp, you're gonna have to start a new game then.

You know, there's a mod on Nexus that is supposed to fix a shit ton of bugs and crashes. Maybe you should take a look at that?

Onoffical Patch and the Bug fixer together i haven't had a real crash or bug in like 8 months

[The Flutterlands]

Welp, you're gonna have to start a new game then.

You know, there's a mod on Nexus that is supposed to fix a shit ton of bugs and crashes. Maybe you should take a look at that?

Onoffical Patch and the Bug fixer together i haven't had a real crash or bug in like 8 months

Yub's?

[The Flutterlands]

Better work this time...

Nope...

[Arengin Union]

Danse is bae

[Salus Maior]

(Image)

Danse is bae

Danse is irony.