The Fallout Thread

[Transoxthraxia]

Hey, I think you're finally starting to catch on.

Not just metal bits, but metal bits that modify the way that the brain thinks or operates.

Kellogg, my metaphor using myself, nor even synths possess metal bits that fuck with the brain.

What?
Uh, so what's the chip that you pick up when you kill Kellogg that allows you to get into the Institute?

However, that's not the main concern in Fallout. While I don't think Kelogg is a person, I also don't think that that's the main issue of the argument, but you seem intent on ignoring my points about Synths. Bottom line, Synths are not people. They are not born, they are manufactured. They are robots at the core with person sprinkled on top, not the other way around like Kelogg or other various cyborgs.

Synths aren't even made of metal.

You're missing the point.

[New Frenco Empire]

Why are you so afraid of technology?

The fuck? I'm not afraid of technology. In fact, I use technology on a daily basis to perform some of the most rudimentary tasks available, including typing essays,looking for jobs, handing in homework, entertaining myself through movies or games, or arguing with people who are wrong over the internet.

This isn't about Neo-Luddism, this is about robots not being people.

People who get mechanical legs aren't robots, though.

[Transoxthraxia]

What's the difference between "born" and "manufactured", anyway?

A lot. One's biological, the other's artificial.

The fuck? I'm not afraid of technology. In fact, I use technology on a daily basis to perform some of the most rudimentary tasks available, including typing essays,looking for jobs, handing in homework, entertaining myself through movies or games, or arguing with people who are wrong over the internet.

This isn't about Neo-Luddism, this is about robots not being people.

People who get mechanical legs aren't robots, though.

They're cyborgs. So I'll direct you back to my earlier argument about them.

I think you're confusing the two points that I'm presenting, one about synths and the other about cyborgs, and in some misconstrued, smug fashionare trying to mash the two together, perhaps pretending that Gen.3 Synths are somehow cyborgs or something.

[New Frenco Empire]

Kellogg, my metaphor using myself, nor even synths possess metal bits that fuck with the brain.

What?
Uh, so what's the chip that you pick up when you kill Kellogg that allows you to get into the Institute?

That chip is used to preserve, not alter.

You're missing the point.

I think I'm a lot closer than I think you think I am.

What's the difference between "born" and "manufactured", anyway?

[New Frenco Empire]

What's the difference between "born" and "manufactured", anyway?

A lot. One's biological, the other's artificial.

Synths are made of biological components, though.

They're cyborgs. So I'll direct you back to my earlier argument about them.

I think you're confusing the two points that I'm presenting, one about synths and the other about cyborgs, and in some misconstrued, smug fashionare trying to mash the two together, perhaps pretending that Gen.3 Synths are somehow cyborgs or something.

Except you're trying to treat them the same way because they fuck with "muh humanity" or some such nonsense.

[Transoxthraxia]

What?
Uh, so what's the chip that you pick up when you kill Kellogg that allows you to get into the Institute?

That chip is used to preserve, not alter.

... Thus altering the base Human condition. Lol.

I think I'm a lot closer than I think you think I am.

Sigh.

[Transoxthraxia]

A lot. One's biological, the other's artificial.

Synths are made of biological components, though.

Jesus Jones, this is one repetitive, circular argument.

[Barboneia]

Synths are made of biological components, though.

Jesus Jones, this is one repetitive, circular argument.

Then why perpetuate it?

[New Frenco Empire]

That chip is used to preserve, not alter.

... Thus altering the base Human condition. Lol.

I think I'm a lot closer than I think you think I am.

Sigh.

Medicine also preserves. You're not against that.

Synths are made of biological components, though.

Jesus Jones, this is one repetitive, circular argument.

I mean, when the best reasons you give are "it messes with humanity!", it tends to go that way.

[Transoxthraxia]

Jesus Jones, this is one repetitive, circular argument.

Then why perpetuate it?

I'm not really sure. Because it's better than writing my essay that's due on Friday.

Though I am stopping, there's no point in arguing with these people.

[Transoxthraxia]

... Thus altering the base Human condition. Lol.


Sigh.

Medicine also preserves. You're not against that.

So, because Medicine preserves, synths are people?

I don't understand.

Unless you're continuing to refuse to address my points on synths rather than cyborgs.

[Wisconsin9]

... Thus altering the base Human condition. Lol.


Sigh.

Medicine also preserves. You're not against that.

Because medicine isn't metal, apparently.

[Barboneia]

Then why perpetuate it?

I'm not really sure. Because it's better than writing my essay that's due on Friday.

Though I am stopping, there's no point in arguing with these people.

Heh. Stopping probably is a good choice though, I don't think anyone wants the thread to become a "synths are people vs. synths aren't people" circle jerk, although it is quite an interesting argument.

[Transoxthraxia]

I'm not really sure. Because it's better than writing my essay that's due on Friday.

Though I am stopping, there's no point in arguing with these people.

Heh. Stopping probably is a good choice though, I don't think anyone wants the thread to become a "synths are people vs. synths aren't people" circle jerk, although it is quite an interesting argument.

Agreed.

[Benomia 3]

What's the difference between "born" and "manufactured", anyway?

A lot. One's biological, the other's artificial.

What's the difference between "biological" and "artificial"?

Machines were created by man. Man was also created by man. Are men created by machines somehow special here? Wikipedia defines "artificiality" as "being the product of human manufacture", but doesn't this describe humans themselves? Are women not human-making machines?
Furthermore, wikipedia defines "biology" as "the scientific study of life and living objects". We can then say that something is "non-biological" if it isn't alive or related to something that is alive.
So then we have the question, "are synths alive"? Luckily this question is easily answered as we have more or less figured out what makes something alive.

Something is commonly accepted to be "alive" if it meats all or most of the following seven criteria:

1: Homeostasis - The maintaining of a regulated internal environment.
2: Organization - Being structurally composed of cells.
3: Metabolism - The transformation of chemicals or other materials into energy that is then used.
4: Growth - Pretty self explanatory.
5: Adaptation - The ability to change over time in response to environment. Part of evolution but also includes smaller scale changes.
6: Response to stimuli - The ability to respond to immediate external factors.
7: Reproduction - Self explanatory.

I think synths meet all seven of these requirements. One could technically make the argument that they don't meet #4 after their initial construction, but I think that initial construction counts, and they obviously grow mentally so I'd say that they cover it. #2 may also be debatable but if I remember correctly the GenIIIers are actually made out of cells now, so that's covered. Everything else is accomplished normally.

Therefore, synths meet all the criteria of being alive.

Therefore, synths are alive.

Therefore, synths fall under the realm of biology.

Therefore, synths are biological.

Therefore, synths are "born", according to your definition.

Therefore, synths are fundamentally no different than humans.

[New Frenco Empire]

Medicine also preserves. You're not against that.

So, because Medicine preserves, synths are people?

I don't understand.

Unless you're continuing to refuse to address my points on synths rather than cyborgs.

I mean, I've addressed your points on synths, yet you're still adamantly bringing up cyborgs.

I refute those points on cyborgs and you bring up synths again. The whole "medicine" argument stemmed from cybernetic augmentation.

Pick one.

[Cybraxia]

Someone more on the Cyborg argument, what about the Courier in New Vegas?

After Old World Blues, there's no question as to whether he's a cyborg, the question is, is he human?

Answer: Yes.

So, Kellogg is Human (from a species argument at least).

[Transoxthraxia]

Holy shit, please tell me in Fallout: New Vegas that I'm able to

Kill Benny, grab the Platinum Chip, Kill House, and use Yes Man to control New Vegas myself

[Benomia 3]

Holy shit, please tell me in Fallout: New Vegas that I'm able to

Kill Benny, grab the Platinum Chip, Kill House, and use Yes Man to control New Vegas myself

Yep.

It's actually one of the most fleshed out endings there are. Killing the big man just activates hard mode. If you rush, you'll leave the Mojave in absolute anarchic despair. But if you take your time and carefully ensure every aspect of the Wasteland is taken care of and left prosperous, you'll unlock the best ending in the game.

[Transoxthraxia]

Holy shit, please tell me in Fallout: New Vegas that I'm able to

Kill Benny, grab the Platinum Chip, Kill House, and use Yes Man to control New Vegas myself

Yep.

It's actually one of the most fleshed out endings there are. Killing the big man just activates hard mode. If you rush, you'll leave the Mojave in absolute anarchic despair. But if you take your time and carefully ensure every aspect of the Wasteland is taken care of and left prosperous, you'll unlock the best ending in the game.

I take it I have to play the tribes very carefully

[The Wolven League]

Holy shit, please tell me in Fallout: New Vegas that I'm able to

Kill Benny, grab the Platinum Chip, Kill House, and use Yes Man to control New Vegas myself

Yes. There are four major routes to take:

Caesar's Legion
NCR
House's servant
Dictator of independent Vegas

[Sane Outcasts]

Yep.

It's actually one of the most fleshed out endings there are. Killing the big man just activates hard mode. If you rush, you'll leave the Mojave in absolute anarchic despair. But if you take your time and carefully ensure every aspect of the Wasteland is taken care of and left prosperous, you'll unlock the best ending in the game.

I take it I have to play the tribes very carefully

Some are very determined to keep to suicidal courses of action. You will be tempted to help them along those courses after some interaction with the dumbasses, but you must resist the urge, or at least do it on a separate save.

[Transoxthraxia]

I take it I have to play the tribes very carefully

Some are very determined to keep to suicidal courses of action. You will be tempted to help them along those courses after some interaction with the dumbasses, but you must resist the urge, or at least do it on a separate save.

I really wish the Brotherhood was one of these factions. Instead I'm stuck running around the entire wasteland doing menial boring shit.

[Benomia 3]

Some are very determined to keep to suicidal courses of action. You will be tempted to help them along those courses after some interaction with the dumbasses, but you must resist the urge, or at least do it on a separate save.

I really wish the Brotherhood was one of these factions. Instead I'm stuck running around the entire wasteland doing menial boring shit.

Psst.
They are.

[Transoxthraxia]

I really wish the Brotherhood was one of these factions. Instead I'm stuck running around the entire wasteland doing menial boring shit.

Psst.
They are.

Good. I left McNamara in charge, it seems the Brotherhood would be weaker that way.

I know you can blow up their bunker, but it's a shit ton of work.