The Fallout Thread

[Alekseandrea]

And for rivet city, well, I believe that most wastelanders would agree that fighting against a bunch of angry people in power armour is called suicide.

4 out of 5 Couriers would disagree with that.

Then again, the Courier is an exceptional individual so maybe they don't count...

Not everyone can cure broken limbs with a short nap.

Fear is simply more reliable to get people to obey than love.

This is some Orwellian thought right here.

Not quite. You don't see the police handing out rewards for good behavior.
They punish the disobedient, thus keeping (most of) the rest in line because they don't want to get punished.
In other words, they fear the punishment.

[Gloriana Americana]

4 out of 5 Couriers would disagree with that.

Then again, the Courier is an exceptional individual so maybe they don't count...

Not everyone can cure broken limbs with a short nap.

This is some Orwellian thought right here.

Not quite. You don't see the police handing out rewards for good behavior.
They punish the disobedient, thus keeping (most of) the rest in line because they don't want to get punished.
In other words, they fear the punishment.

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

[Ifreann]

Not everyone can cure broken limbs with a short nap.



Not quite. You don't see the police handing out rewards for good behavior.
They punish the disobedient, thus keeping (most of) the rest in line because they don't want to get punished.
In other words, they fear the punishment.

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

[Gloriana Americana]

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

The Trve Kvlt battles against the Vikings for supremacy, obviously.

[Alekseandrea]

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

No it doesn't.

There are different ways to punish someone.

Locking people up is one of them.
Fines or rehabilitation are different approaches.
The important thing is that they are punished, not the punishment themselves.

As far as I know, most people will avoid getting punished.

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

They are no doubt torturing their miscreants by asking them how they feel and educational videos.

[Ifreann]

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

The Trve Kvlt battles against the Vikings for supremacy, obviously.

The prize? The seed depository on Svalbard.

[Sovaal]

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

Radmoose have taken over and enslaved humanity.

[Gloriana Americana]

And yet it's been proven that rehabilitating criminals is more effective than imprisoning them, so that kinda destroys your argument there.

No it doesn't.

The Nordic Countries beg to differ.

As far as I know, most people will avoid getting punished.

You have an outright naive faith in people to be smart and reasonable. Most criminals are neither, mind you.

The Trve Kvlt battles against the Vikings for supremacy, obviously.

The prize? The seed depository on Svalbard.

Yes, but first they must reach the last remaining icebreaker stranded in the fjords of the savagesSami and turning back hordes of barbarians Swedes.

I wonder how post-apocalyptic Norway is doing.

Radmoose have taken over and enslaved humanity.

No, no, no, the radmoose are used as war horses obviously.

[Alekseandrea]

No it doesn't.

The Nordic Countries beg to differ.

How exactly?
The miscreants are still forced to do things, like community service or something like that.
It's still robbing people of their freedom, just with fewer walls.
Same principle, different execution.
They're still punished nonetheless.

As far as I know, most people will avoid getting punished.

You have an outright naive faith in people to be smart and reasonable. Most criminals are neither, mind you.

I don't see the criminals lining up to pay for their crimes.
The criminals still TRY to avoid getting caught and/or punished.
There wouldn't be much crime left if they didn't.

[Gloriana Americana]

The miscreants are still forced to do things, like community service or something like that.
It's still robbing people of their freedom, just with fewer walls.
Same principle, different execution.
They're still punished nonetheless.

Then according to your logic, the worse the punishment the less likely someone is to commit a crime.

And yet, people in some states in the U.S. can get thrown into the same pens as rapists and serial killers for 7 years because they smoked marijuana. Lo and behold, people still smoke marijuana in these places anyway.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.

I don't see the criminals lining up to pay for their crimes.
The criminals still TRY to avoid getting caught and/or punished.
There wouldn't be much crime left if they didn't.

You realize you've contradicted yourself right?

[Ifreann]

No it doesn't.

The Nordic Countries beg to differ.

As far as I know, most people will avoid getting punished.

You have an outright naive faith in people to be smart and reasonable. Most criminals are neither, mind you.

The prize? The seed depository on Svalbard.

Yes, but first they must reach the last remaining icebreaker stranded in the fjords of the savagesSami and turning back hordes of barbarians Swedes.

Radmoose have taken over and enslaved humanity.

No, no, no, the radmoose are used as war horses obviously.

I would play this game.

[Sevvania]

All heavy machine guns will be wind-powered and fire lead-free ammo by 2290.

[Ifreann]

(Image)

All heavy machine guns will be wind-powered and fire lead-free ammo by 2290.

The lead will be replaced by harmless uranium.

[Sevvania]

(Image)

All heavy machine guns will be wind-powered and fire lead-free ammo by 2290.

The lead will be replaced by harmless uranium.

Because radiation is green. *nods sagely*

[Ifreann]

The lead will be replaced by harmless uranium.

Because radiation is green. *nods sagely*

Bingo.

[Gloriana Americana]

(Image)

All heavy machine guns will be wind-powered and fire lead-free ammo by 2290.

The lead will be replaced by harmless uranium.

>harmless
>uranium

Pick one.

[United Ameritania]

The lead will be replaced by harmless uranium.

>harmless
>uranium

Pick one.

you silly goy

uranium does wonders for the skin, it's harmless

[Salus Maior]

1.Well, they can't stop the institute playing god in any case.
And, frankly, they have little to no value when looked at from the institutes point of view.
They don't need them.
I don't think they have feelings other than apathy towards the surface.


2.Does he?
He's your usual likeable killer android who thinks of wastelanders as target practice, sure.
But the institute actually recruits wastelanders.
Why would they want they to destroy their source of new recruits?
It's not like they can produce enough (real) humans to break even.


3.Not always. There is a quest where the institute attempts to recruit a scientist. The scientist called for the minutemen. Those minutemen WILL ignore your orders to stand down if you fail a charisma check. This tells us that the SS authority is virtually non-existent. If the SS had any he could simply pull rank.


4.Preston does contribute. He's the guy who everyone goes to with their problems, which are delegated to you. It's gameplay, but it still happens.
The settlements and trade routes are also gameplay. If those count, so does the SS doing Preston's dirty work.
I doubt that people wait to build shelter and plant food unless some guy orders them to do it. The same thing could be said for trading.


5.And what happens if a bunch of traders decide they don't want to give up their hard-earned cash?


6.If you're going to ignore that sources can be unreliable, sure.
We're talking about dirt farmers here, not socio-political commentators.
He might think it has improved because, for some reason, raiders stopped attacking him.


7.The NCR rose from an alliance of existing city-states. The minutemen are attempting to build the alliance first, the states second. The minutemen ares simply attempting to protect too much land with too little people. It's a recipe for disaster. It's a reason why the old ones failed and the new ones will fail.


8.The point is that the institute tried BEFORE killing them all.


9.The commonwealth isn't annexed.


10.This quote sums it up pretty well:

"Whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. ...
Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated."

The minutemen rely on being loved by the populace. If they lose their goodwill, they'll collapse.
The problem is that people are fickle, one day you're a hero, the other day the asshole who collect taxes.
And the minutemen won't use fear to keep the population in line, because of their ideals.
So they will be slaves to their PR. Which means they can't do much. People are easily angered.

Fear is simply more reliable to get people to obey than love.


11.Well, since when do people want what's good for them?
It's easy to be for thruth, justice, peace and the American way if somebody else is doing the fighting.

1. They can by blowing up their reactor. And that is why the Institute is the worst faction to side with if you want the Commonwealth to be improved as a whole.

2.They recruited one wastelander. Kellog. And if you side with them they have the SS, so why do they need anyone else? They only need one guy with surface knowledge to plan and command surface operations. As for manpower they can just make more Synths. That's generally how the Institute deals with their problems anyway.

3. They don't listen to you because you've sided with the enemy, the Institute, over the good of the Commonwealth. Same if you sided with Nuka-World Raiders. If the director of the Institute actively acted against Institute interests and the fundamentals of their ideology, do you think the scientists would continue following them? If the Elder of the BoS suddenly embraced Synths and promoted the Institute do you think the BoS would continue following them?

4. Alright, so how can we lore-wise interpret settlement building? Because you're right, it likely wouldn't be just the SS building everything. It's more likely that they've taken a mediator and planning role, negotiating trade and cooperation between settlements and planning settlements and supplying them in such a way as to encourage growth and raise the standard of living and security. Which is still better than anything the Institute has ever done in terms of a better future for the Commonwealth.

Preston doesn't take any kind of similar role in the Minutemen. While I'd like to believe that in-lore the SS wouldn't be so dense as to be an errand boy for his lieutenant for all time, let's think about it this way: In some ways, going out and doing direct work with the settlements would work in the SS's favor as the General. You're putting a face behind the movement, you're showing that you're a man for the people. Like campaigning in a election. And the people approve and it does raise their support for the cause and for you personally. However, I think it's far more likely lore-wise that as the Minutemen grow, the SS would eventually delegate direct work with settlements to subordinates. Of course, in game that doesn't happen because you still need radiant quests throughout the game.

5. Then those traders lose a valuable ally. The Minutemen protect their settlements and their trade routes, they root out the raiders and the mutants and the ghouls who would threaten their steady income. It's in their best interests to support the Minutemen.

6. Alright, so here's the dialogue and scene I keep referencing: It's a 25 minute long video but you only have to watch 6 mins in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRxceSADg-I

7. The Minutemen become more effective and stronger the more you build them up. Yes, it's an uphill struggle to build up and protect every settlement in game, but once you do, the Minutemen's protective coverage grows and it gets easier to do, and this is visible in-game. And lore-wise, it makes sense because the bigger you build up the settlements, they more caps you receive, the more food you grow, and the more recruits for the cause of the Minutemen. Here's another video by the same guy as above that explains this (this one is longer but I believe it explains Minuteman pros than I have. I've cut it down to the relevant part): https://youtu.be/x_DvLI9obE0?t=25m57s

8. They tried because it was in the Institute's interest to do so. And when the CPG did not act with the Institute's interests, they destroyed it.

9. Define "annexed" in the context of a post-apocalyptic world. Did the BoS have administration over Rivet city? No, they didn't. They still went in and took what they wanted without caring for the well being of the people and that's how they operate in general. If Diamond city, or any city in the Commonwealth for that matter had something that the BoS wanted, they wouldn't hesitate to use force and leave the settlement a wasteland to obtain it for themselves.


10. The Minutemen rely on providing a service, a sorely needed service to the Commonwealth. That service being the protection of settlements, securing of trade routes, and the extermination of raider, mutant, feral, and other lairs. Because of that service the people happen to love them because it directly improves their lives. And people are free to refuse that service, like Bunker Hill does.

Ruling by fear produces resentment and eventually instability. The Institute is the perfect example of this. Because they've chosen to rule by terrorism, the common people of the Commonwealth despise them, they actively look for ways to fight and defeat the Institute, they run to their enemies like the Railroad and the Minutemen and they kill their agents. And this is what eventually leads to their downfall.

11. So people want to be murdered by raiders, mutants, and ferals? People want to be extorted by the BoS? They don't want a service that defends their settlements from attacks and protects trade? This is the weakest argument I've seen thus far.

And note: The Minutemen are made up of those farmers and traders and general citizenry from the settlements. So I guess yeah, they do want to fight for freedom and the American way.

[Ozzy]

I love that moment when you blast a Fiend with the YCS/186 and their shitty varmint rifle absorbs ALL the damage.

[Gloriana Americana]

I love that moment when you blast a Fiend with the YCS/186 and their shitty varmint rifle absorbs ALL the damage.

Fucking Fiends, man.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

So hey, I need to ask something.

Is it normal for Deacon to just not say anything to you in the post game? I beat the game as the Minuteman without doing any Railroad Quests and he says nothing when you talk to him.

Also, look at this tower I built.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I dunno if it's just me but playing through Dead Money just feels like a chore.

[Gloriana Americana]

I dunno if it's just me but playing through Dead Money just feels like a chore.

That's the fun part, you philistine.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I dunno if it's just me but playing through Dead Money just feels like a chore.

Dead Money sucks ghost balls.

[Gloriana Americana]

I dunno if it's just me but playing through Dead Money just feels like a chore.

Dead Money sucks ghost balls.

Dead Money is fucking great, what's with all these WRONG people with their WRONG opinions???? Don't they realize they're in the WRONG place???