The Fallout Thread

[United Ameritania]

Well, I just barely managed to recover Eddie's holotape in Quincy.

Jesus, these Gunners are tough.

Gunners!

[Alekseandrea]

The question is not 'are synths humans?'.
They are not.
They are synths.
The question is 'are synths persons?'.
To me a person needs to be self-aware.
I believe synths lack this trait.

And until we can be certain that we have that trait, I don't consider it relevant.

It's simple:
You treat humans as humans.

And you treat persons as humans.

Then only one question question remains:

Are synths persons?

This reasoning simplifies our problem to a single question.

[Alekseandrea]

The question is not 'are synths humans?'.
They are not.
They are synths.
The question is 'are synths persons?'.
To me a person needs to be self-aware.
I believe synths lack this trait.

^^
Synths are by definition self-aware, but they are machines, not humans, and only humans can be people.

Then again I'm an Enclave supporter so fuck me right

I disagree.
What about multi-purpose human replica implies self-awareness?
Nothing.

[Imperial isa]

wow so he did go nuts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMY0IETkDrU

[Cybraxia]

^^
Synths are by definition self-aware, but they are machines, not humans, and only humans can be people.

Then again I'm an Enclave supporter so fuck me right

I disagree.
What about multi-purpose human replica implies self-awareness?
Nothing.

By that description, clones can't be considered self-aware either.

[Husseinarti]

I disagree.
What about multi-purpose human replica implies self-awareness?
Nothing.

By that description, clones can't be considered self-aware either.

What?

Do you even know how cloning would even work?

It wouldn't produce two the same people, the second that you cloned a 25 year old and made his clone, they'd become two different people pretty quickly.

They'd be self-aware, perfectly conscious of their own actions.

Its just that the clone would only live to like, 40 or something.

[Sane Outcasts]

wow so he did go nuts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMY0IETkDrU

Same costume, but it could be a different Mechanist. After all, it's a comic book character and there seem to be some very serious fans in the Commonwealth.

The new weapons that trailer shows off are promising. Looks like a gun that shoots electricity and some sort of pistol that shoots fireballs. Not to mention the robot parts include flaming sword arms, Assaultron heads complete with death ray, and the hovering jets of a Mr. Handy. We can potentially make a robot that walks with fire, coats its arms in fire, and shoots fire from its face.

[Husseinarti]

I hope that its the Mechanist from FO3.

Would be rly cool.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I hope that its the Mechanist from FO3.

Would be rly cool.

Yeah he was funny, always sided with him.

[The Nuclear Fist]

My initial fears about the Automotron DLC are dissipating now that I've seen the trailer. It looks like it involves a questline after all. Awesome!

[Mirakai]

Looks like I'm going to be reinstalling RobCo Certified for New Vegas in order to somewhat placate my desire to create a giant sentry bot, full of guns, plus an Assualtron laser beam head, and name it Murderbot

[Transoxthraxia]

I found Benny in a Novac hotel room and beat him to death with a pipe.

Did I break the game?

[Benomia 3]

I found Benny in a Novac hotel room and beat him to death with a pipe.

Did I break the game?

I know that if you free him from the Fort he wonders around the wasteland for awhile, and if you did the NCR storyline without ever talking to him he can pop up later.

[Alekseandrea]

I disagree.
What about multi-purpose human replica implies self-awareness?
Nothing.

By that description, clones can't be considered self-aware either.

A clone can be a multi-purpose human replica.
Not all multi-purpose replicas are clones.

And implies doesn't equal is.

[Husseinarti]

By that description, clones can't be considered self-aware either.

A clone can be a multi-purpose human replica.
Not all multi-purpose replicas are clones.

And implies doesn't equal is.

A clone is still a person ffd

[Cybraxia]

A clone can be a multi-purpose human replica.
Not all multi-purpose replicas are clones.

And implies doesn't equal is.

A clone is still a person ffd

My point exactly. A Gen 3 Synth is essentially a clone, albeit with extra bits added in the brain to insure obediance/protection of secrecy. AFAIK at least.

Lemme put it this way: If these circuits weren't included in the brain, would you consider them as "people"?

[Transoxthraxia]

A clone is still a person ffd

My point exactly. A Gen 3 Synth is essentially a clone, albeit with extra bits added in the brain to insure obediance/protection of secrecy. AFAIK at least.

Lemme put it this way: If these circuits weren't included in the brain, would you consider them as "people"?

No its not. A robot is not a clone.

Also, if it didn't have any circuits whatsoever, it'd be Human, ergo a person. But it has circuits, and therefore not a Human.

[Transoxthraxia]

I've started to play more and more into my drunkenly-made FO:NV character. He's specc'ed into charisma and luck in the SPECIAL and has high speech, barter, and whatnot. I kind of see him as a smooth-talking card-playing cat who knows his way around New Vegas and is out for revenge.

[Sevvania]

My point exactly. A Gen 3 Synth is essentially a clone, albeit with extra bits added in the brain to insure obediance/protection of secrecy. AFAIK at least.

Lemme put it this way: If these circuits weren't included in the brain, would you consider them as "people"?

No its not. A robot is not a clone.

Also, if it didn't have any circuits whatsoever, it'd be Human, ergo a person. But it has circuits, and therefore not a Human.

Robots are generally mechanical, rather than organic. Gen 3s are comprised of organic materials grown from human DNA supplemented with mechanical parts.

Is a person with mechanical prosthetics still human? Is a cyborg like Kellog human?

[Transoxthraxia]

No its not. A robot is not a clone.

Also, if it didn't have any circuits whatsoever, it'd be Human, ergo a person. But it has circuits, and therefore not a Human.

Robots are generally mechanical, rather than organic. Gen 3s are comprised of organic materials grown from human DNA supplemented with mechanical parts.

Is a person with mechanical prosthetics still human? Is a cyborg like Kellog human?

I don't consider them so, no. They've altered and thus destroyed their humanity.

[Sevvania]

If you don't think disabled people are human then it's no wonder you've ruled out synths as well.

[Benomia 3]

I don't consider people who don't consider disabled people people people.

[Alekseandrea]

A clone is still a person ffd

My point exactly. A Gen 3 Synth is essentially a clone, albeit with extra bits added in the brain to insure obediance/protection of secrecy. AFAIK at least.

Lemme put it this way: If these circuits weren't included in the brain, would you consider them as "people"?

If they are,
why can't the institute simply reprogram wastelanders?
Why are they tougher than a normal person?

They're NOT clones.
They're advanced androids, better known as 'synths'.
Therefore they aren't human.
Period.

As I stated before the question is 'Are they persons?', NOT 'Are they humans?'.

[New Frenco Empire]

Robots are generally mechanical, rather than organic. Gen 3s are comprised of organic materials grown from human DNA supplemented with mechanical parts.

Is a person with mechanical prosthetics still human? Is a cyborg like Kellog human?

I don't consider them so, no. They've altered and thus destroyed their humanity.

I'm sure you'll be lovely once this actually starts appearing in our lifetimes.

[The Wolven League]

Robots are generally mechanical, rather than organic. Gen 3s are comprised of organic materials grown from human DNA supplemented with mechanical parts.

Is a person with mechanical prosthetics still human? Is a cyborg like Kellog human?

I don't consider them so, no. They've altered and thus destroyed their humanity.

So, say a human lost his arm in a war. If he got a robotic arm, not only is he not human, but he's not a person in your eyes because he has mechanical parts?