Metal Thread 3: Subjectivity isn't Metal

[Cadonica]

There are more interesting bands to talk about, you know. Shining of Kliffoth, Massive Assault, Dishammer, Obtuse, UltraMantis Black, Throats, Nocternity, Spazztic Blurr, Uranium 235, Ministry, Zolle, Whourkr, Type O Negative, Rorschach Test, Treachery, Prong, Trencher, Martyrdöd, Project Hopeless, Catheter, Opium Lord, Creepmime, Noctiferia, Ram-Zet, Umbra Animæ, Possessed, Torture Killer, Spasm, Wolfbrigade, Lock Up, Mordicus, Orphanage, Nasum, Halo, Octinomos, To Elysium, Electrozombies, Hellborn Messiah, Hero Destroyed, Hadez, Loudblast, Nembrionic, Herder, Krisiun, Night In Gales, Blackwinds, Isvind, Abigor and Mundane come to mind, for example.

Also the band Yakzistan mentioned.

Then why is no one talking about them? If the current topic doesn't interest you, you might as well bring some of these, or other, bands up instead of making passive aggressive remarks followed by gigantic namedrop. I'd be more than glad to talk about or share different bands and topics. I could and I would've probably brought something else up if I didn't have to go to work. If I was home I might've done a similar namedrop but luckily I'm on mobile. Namedrops of this volume don't really do much for the thread. But enough ranting, let's talk:

Out of all those bands the only ones I know are Possessed, Spasm, Nasum, Torture Killer, Ministry and Type O Negative. I listen to the first three on regular basis, haven't really listened to anything from the latter three but I quite enjoy Steele's first band, Carnivore.

[Galborea]

Nasum is great, one of the few grindcore bands I can listen to absolutely whenever I want.

[Hurdegaryp]

There are more interesting bands to talk about, you know. Shining of Kliffoth, Massive Assault, Dishammer, Obtuse, UltraMantis Black, Throats, Nocternity, Spazztic Blurr, Uranium 235, Ministry, Zolle, Whourkr, Type O Negative, Rorschach Test, Treachery, Prong, Trencher, Martyrdöd, Project Hopeless, Catheter, Opium Lord, Creepmime, Noctiferia, Ram-Zet, Umbra Animæ, Possessed, Torture Killer, Spasm, Wolfbrigade, Lock Up, Mordicus, Orphanage, Nasum, Halo, Octinomos, To Elysium, Electrozombies, Hellborn Messiah, Hero Destroyed, Hadez, Loudblast, Nembrionic, Herder, Krisiun, Night In Gales, Blackwinds, Isvind, Abigor and Mundane come to mind, for example.

Also the band Yakzistan mentioned.

Then why is no one talking about them? If the current topic doesn't interest you, you might as well bring some of these, or other, bands up instead of making passive aggressive remarks followed by gigantic namedrop. I'd be more than glad to talk about or share different bands and topics. I could and I would've probably brought something else up if I didn't have to go to work. If I was home I might've done a similar namedrop but luckily I'm on mobile. Namedrops of this volume don't really do much for the thread. But enough ranting, let's talk:

Out of all those bands the only ones I know are Possessed, Spasm, Nasum, Torture Killer, Ministry and Type O Negative. I listen to the first three on regular basis, haven't really listened to anything from the latter three but I quite enjoy Steele's first band, Carnivore.

Why nobody is talking about them? Well, even musical subcultures have their mainstreams. It is easier for most to talk about old and/or former thrash metal bands that happen to be quite popular than about obscure pornogrind from the Czech Republic, Austrian black metal or Dutch old school death metal.

[Kolmya]

I haven't heard a lot of Type O Negative, but I've been trying to get into them. What I've heard so far I like.

[The New Sea Territory]

Nasum's Inhale/Exhale is one of the best grindcore albums of all time.

Why nobody is talking about them? Well, even musical subcultures have their mainstreams. It is easier for most to talk about old and/or former thrash metal bands that happen to be quite popular than about obscure pornogrind from the Czech Republic, Austrian black metal or Dutch old school death metal.

This is why r/metal and r/blackmetal have blacklisted bands: so we can share cool but not well known bands rather than waste everyone's time arguing about well known ones.

[Jolthig]

How so?

Let me dissect it:

"It's faster than the Four Horsemen": How does that make it better? Can you explain that? If you can explain how in your own opinion that's a superior trait, we're good.
"Plus, Mustaine wrote it:": Same thing really. HOW does that make it a better song? Can you explain that as well?

It's just my personal opinion since I like face-paced heavy songs.

Can you explain why the Four Horsemen is better than the Mechanix?

[Kolmya]

This is why r/metal and r/blackmetal have blacklisted bands: so we can share cool but not well known bands rather than waste everyone's time arguing about well known ones.

Yeah. I think the blacklist works pretty good.

[The New Sea Territory]

This is why r/metal and r/blackmetal have blacklisted bands: so we can share cool but not well known bands rather than waste everyone's time arguing about well known ones.

Yeah. I think the blacklist works pretty good.

Agreed.

Not having one is why r/Punk gets flooded with Leftover Crack every day.

[Galborea]

Let me dissect it:

"It's faster than the Four Horsemen": How does that make it better? Can you explain that? If you can explain how in your own opinion that's a superior trait, we're good.
"Plus, Mustaine wrote it:": Same thing really. HOW does that make it a better song? Can you explain that as well?

It's just my personal opinion since I like face-paced heavy songs.

Can you explain why the Four Horsemen is better than the Mechanix?

It's entirely subjective but here are my explanations:
The pace might be slower than Mechanix but is not by any means less aggressive. Honestly the more gallopy pace fits the song structure better to my ears.
Better bass work from Cliff especially in the middle passage. It's not exactly the best thing in the world but still sounds like sonic porn.
Better vocals...Mustaine is honestly hit-or-miss for me.
Better structure, it's not all fast thrashiness, which means that because there's dynamics the fast parts stand out more, something Metallica would be great at in the following three albums. Fuck people that say the slow harmonic part in Master of Puppets ruined the song. That's retarded.
The solos are far more memorable and well structured whereas Mechanix's solo sounds kind of generic. But this is probably the most subjective.
Awful production on KIMB...ABIG takes out some of the heaviness. This isn't black metal, Mustaine. The production in KEA feels much heavier.
Finally...better lyrics on The Four Horsemen. Sure it's not the "deepest" stuff ever, but it's a shitton better than juvenile innuendos from Mustaine about having sex at a gas station. I mean seriously, it's kind of cringe-worthy material.

[Kolmya]

Yeah. I think the blacklist works pretty good.

Agreed.

Not having one is why r/Punk gets flooded with Leftover Crack every day.

I do think something else that works well is the Green List of r/DoomMetal. Probably works as well as it does due to the size of the subreddit.

[Galborea]

Agreed.

Not having one is why r/Punk gets flooded with Leftover Crack every day.

I do think something else that works well is the Green List of r/DoomMetal. Probably works as well as it does due to the size of the subreddit.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about

[The New Sea Territory]

I do think something else that works well is the Green List of r/DoomMetal. Probably works as well as it does due to the size of the subreddit.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about

Reddit's metal communities...they generally blacklist well known bands. Otherwise, the entire page would be filled with the same songs everyone already knows.

[Galborea]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about

Reddit's metal communities...they generally blacklist well known bands. Otherwise, the entire page would be filled with the same songs everyone already knows.

Fair enough. I don't even bother with Reddit though.

[The New Sea Territory]

Better structure, it's not all fast thrashiness, which means that because there's dynamics the fast parts stand out more, something Metallica would be great at in the following three albums. Fuck people that say the slow harmonic part in Master of Puppets ruined the song. That's retarded.

If I wanted anything but fast thrashiness, I wouldn't listen to thrash. The defining characteristic of the subgenre is its aggressive speed.

This is why, when do listen to thrash, it's usually crossover, thrashcore or Teutonic thrash.

[Galborea]

Better structure, it's not all fast thrashiness, which means that because there's dynamics the fast parts stand out more, something Metallica would be great at in the following three albums. Fuck people that say the slow harmonic part in Master of Puppets ruined the song. That's retarded.

If I wanted anything but fast thrashiness, I wouldn't listen to thrash. The defining characteristic of the subgenre is its aggressive speed.

This is why, when do listen to thrash, it's usually crossover, thrashcore or Teutonic thrash.

I thought speed metal was something different.
When I think thrash metal, I think influences from both punk and traditional heavy metal, including NWOBHM. Which included some emphasis on dynamic. It kind of annoys me when people go ahead and pull the "that's what thrash is about" card. Aggressive speed isn't the only characteristic and I prefer when bands don't resort to using the generic tropes of their style. That's why I like deathcore but not Suicide Silence.

[Impaled Nazarene]

If I wanted anything but fast thrashiness, I wouldn't listen to thrash. The defining characteristic of the subgenre is its aggressive speed.

This is why, when do listen to thrash, it's usually crossover, thrashcore or Teutonic thrash.

I thought speed metal was something different.
Aggressive speed isn't the only characteristic

True

[Galborea]

I thought speed metal was something different.
Aggressive speed isn't the only characteristic

True

Too many of these re-thrash or whatever bands don't get that what made the frontrunners of the subgenre so special was the fact that they had more than one idea in their music. Even Slayer, for all the seeming hate I give them (despite the fact that I actually LIKE Slayer and think their first two albums are amazing), were capable of that. Think of all the bands that used melodic elements obviously inspired by Iron Maiden or Judas Priest. Hell, Motorhead had a fair bit of that as well!!!

[The New Sea Territory]

I thought speed metal was something different.
When I think thrash metal, I think influences from both punk and traditional heavy metal, including NWOBHM. Which included some emphasis on dynamic. It kind of annoys me when people go ahead and pull the "that's what thrash is about" card. Aggressive speed isn't the only characteristic and I prefer when bands don't resort to using the generic tropes of their style. That's why I like deathcore but not Suicide Silence.

Speed metal is where Anthrax, Megadeth and Metallica came from. It's fast, but not aggressive.

Hardcore is where that aggression came from, with bands like DRI that came from the hardcore scene.

True

Too many of these re-thrash or whatever bands don't get that what made the frontrunners of the subgenre so special was the fact that they had more than one idea in their music. Even Slayer, for all the seeming hate I give them (despite the fact that I actually LIKE Slayer and think their first two albums are amazing), were capable of that. Think of all the bands that used melodic elements obviously inspired by Iron Maiden or Judas Priest. Hell, Motorhead had a fair bit of that as well!!!

"Re-thrash or whatever".

If I wanted melodic riffs, I'd listen to Children of Bodom. When listening to thrash, I don't want watered-down, accessible, de-clawed heavy metal (looking at you, Metallica).

I don't think any of the frontrunners are worthy of much praise outside Slayer (huge influence on other genres).

[Impaled Nazarene]

If you want melothrash Phantom Antichrist is over there. Don't get me wrong I love Phantom Antichrist but I much prefer my thrash straight up my ass

[Galborea]

I thought speed metal was something different.
When I think thrash metal, I think influences from both punk and traditional heavy metal, including NWOBHM. Which included some emphasis on dynamic. It kind of annoys me when people go ahead and pull the "that's what thrash is about" card. Aggressive speed isn't the only characteristic and I prefer when bands don't resort to using the generic tropes of their style. That's why I like deathcore but not Suicide Silence.

Speed metal is where Anthrax, Megadeth and Metallica came from. It's fast, but not aggressive.

Hardcore is where that aggression came from, with bands like DRI that came from the hardcore scene.

Too many of these re-thrash or whatever bands don't get that what made the frontrunners of the subgenre so special was the fact that they had more than one idea in their music. Even Slayer, for all the seeming hate I give them (despite the fact that I actually LIKE Slayer and think their first two albums are amazing), were capable of that. Think of all the bands that used melodic elements obviously inspired by Iron Maiden or Judas Priest. Hell, Motorhead had a fair bit of that as well!!!

"Re-thrash or whatever".

If I wanted melodic riffs, I'd listen to Children of Bodom. When listening to thrash, I don't want watered-down, accessible, de-clawed heavy metal (looking at you, Metallica).

I don't think any of the frontrunners are worthy of much praise outside Slayer (huge influence on other genres).

Oh boy, we got one of those "Metallica is watered-down and accessible so they're not good enough"/"the big name frontrunners are sooo overrated" guys. Be very afraid.

If you want melothrash Phantom Antichrist is over there. Don't get me wrong I love Phantom Antichrist but I much prefer my thrash straight up my ass

I consider that the best thrash metal album since Rust In Peace.

[The New Sea Territory]

Oh boy, we got one of those "Metallica is watered-down and accessible so they're not good enough"/"the big name frontrunners are sooo overrated" guys. Be very afraid.

Nice dodge.

Metallica isn't "good enough", not because accessible music is bad (ska is fairly accessible and its awesome), but it's obvious that their sound changed due to their popularity. I dislike bands who change their sound to market it.

They are comparable to Green Day or Underoath. I'll listen to the first few albums they put out, but that's about it. Once they made their music a product rather than an art, it became boring.

[Galborea]

Oh boy, we got one of those "Metallica is watered-down and accessible so they're not good enough"/"the big name frontrunners are sooo overrated" guys. Be very afraid.

Nice dodge.

Metallica isn't "good enough", not because accessible music is bad (ska is fairly accessible and its awesome), but it's obvious that their sound changed due to their popularity. I dislike bands who change their sound to market it.

They are comparable to Green Day or Underoath. I'll listen to the first few albums they put out, but that's about it. Once they made their music a product rather than an art, it became boring.

Well that's a bit hard for me to relate to on Metallica's side since I actually like the Black Album and a fair amount of material from Load and Reload. Also despite awful production and lyrics the music on St. Anger was kind of promising had it been executed properly and not completely butchered.

[Cadonica]

Why nobody is talking about them? Well, even musical subcultures have their mainstreams. It is easier for most to talk about old and/or former thrash metal bands that happen to be quite popular than about obscure pornogrind from the Czech Republic, Austrian black metal or Dutch old school death metal.

It was a rhetoric question and I answered it in the same post. If you want to talk about obscure metal and no one else is doing it, bring those bands up instead of wondering why everyone is busy with pop metal. Pop metal as in popular metal, not as a genre because such doesn't really exist.

I will out obscure everyone here! How you might ask. Well, the best way to do that is to go to obscure countries like Algeria, Sri Lanka and Bahrain.

I thought speed metal was something different.

Speed metal
Thrash/speed metal

Difference is small but it's there.

[Ameriganastan]

A 40K themed band, who did a song with Brian Frigging May. Damn shame they broke up in 93, and only have one album.

[Cadonica]

A 40K themed band, who did a song with Brian Frigging May. Damn shame they broke up in 93, and only have one album.

I like.