The (Regenerated) Doctor Who Thread: Reverse the Polarity!

[Tokuopolis]

Bring back who? John Frobisher or Captain Jack?

Captain Jack.

Jack didn't die though (

he became immortal in the 2005 series finale

). Miracle day came out and was set after series 5 (I think). What, do you mean replace John Barrowman with another actor?

[United Kingdom of Poland]

Captain Jack.

Jack didn't die though (

he became immortal in the 2005 series finale

). Miracle day came out and was set after series 5 (I think). What, do you mean replace John Barrowman with another actor?

ok I thought you meant Jack died at the end of Tennants run when you said this:

and he died in order to balance the changes to the timeline the 10th doctor made

DW who continuity is a pain in the rear end.

[The Romulan Republic]

Jack didn't die though (

he became immortal in the 2005 series finale

). Miracle day came out and was set after series 5 (I think). What, do you mean replace John Barrowman with another actor?

ok I thought you meant Jack died at the end of Tennants run when you said this:

and he died in order to balance the changes to the timeline the 10th doctor made

DW who continuity is a pain in the rear end.

What continuity?

Doctor Who (under Moffat, at least) has pretty much made it up as it goes.

[Tokuopolis]

Jack didn't die though (

he became immortal in the 2005 series finale

). Miracle day came out and was set after series 5 (I think). What, do you mean replace John Barrowman with another actor?

ok I thought you meant Jack died at the end of Tennants run when you said this:

and he died in order to balance the changes to the timeline the 10th doctor made

DW who continuity is a pain in the rear end.

Tokuopolis meant John Frobisher, another DWU character Capaldi played

BTW, Jack turns up in a bar in the end of time after COE.

ok I thought you meant Jack died at the end of Tennants run when you said this:

DW who continuity is a pain in the rear end.

What continuity?

Doctor Who (under Moffat, at least) has pretty much made it up as it goes.

Moffat himself said:

It is impossible for a show about a dimension-hopping time traveller to have a canon

Dr who generally has a loose continuity anyway.

And this isn't about that.

[Tokuopolis]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?

When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run), fans of the darker and edgier style feel the actor's talents are wasted, but when you've got a dark doctor and dark, serious villains and stories, (like the first season with Peter Capaldi) the darkness puts off younger and casual fans.

That's why I think Tennant's and Smith's doctors are more popular, as a light doctor in a dark universe has the most appeal, pleasing fans of both the dark and light styles.

[Osnil]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?

When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run), fans of the darker and edgier style feel the actor's talents are wasted, but when you've got a dark doctor and dark, serious villains and stories, the darkness puts off younger and casual fans.

That's why I think Tennant's and Smith's doctors are more popular, as a light doctor in a dark universe has the most appeal, pleasing fans of both the dark and light styles.

I've always wondered why nobody liked Eccleston. . .

[Conscentia]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?
When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run), fans of the darker and edgier style feel the actor's talents are wasted, but when you've got a dark doctor and dark, serious villains and stories, the darkness puts off younger and casual fans.
That's why I think Tennant's and Smith's doctors are more popular, as a light doctor in a dark universe has the most appeal, pleasing fans of both the dark and light styles.

I've always wondered why nobody liked Eccleston. . .

I prefer 9 to 10.

[Osnil]

I've always wondered why nobody liked Eccleston. . .

I prefer 9 to 10.

Me too. I feel Eccleston didn't get a long enough run. *sigh* THe only time I dislike what Rose does. . .

[Conscentia]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?
When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run),[...]

9's run was darker than 11's run.

[Osnil]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?
When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run),[...]

9's run was darker than 11's run.

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels

I gotta go with 11 as darker.

[Astrolinium]

9's run was darker than 11's run.

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels

I gotta go with 11 as darker.

That's... not what darkness is. Darkness is about the emotional content. That said, both runs got very dark at times.

[Osnil]

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels

I gotta go with 11 as darker.

That's... not what darkness is. Darkness is about the emotional content. That said, both runs got very dark at times.

11''s run definitely makes you want to pee your pants more often.

[Conscentia]

9's run was darker than 11's run.

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels
I gotta go with 11 as darker.

Weeping Angels in 11's run became a parody of themselves, and the "vampires" were just ugly fish-people.
11 was silly more often than dark.

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels
I gotta go with 11 as darker.

That's... not what darkness is. Darkness is about the emotional content. That said, both runs got very dark at times.

When did 11 get "very dark"?

[Aqizithiuda]

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels
I gotta go with 11 as darker.

Weeping Angels in 11's run were a parody of themselves, and the "vampires" were just ugly fish-people.
11 was silly more often than dark.

That's... not what darkness is. Darkness is about the emotional content. That said, both runs got very dark at times.

When did 11 get "very dark"?

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

[The Romulan Republic]

Weeping Angels in 11's run were a parody of themselves, and the "vampires" were just ugly fish-people.
11 was silly more often than dark.


When did 11 get "very dark"?

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

Eleven is a clownish facade hiding darkness and madness. The series outright compares him to the monsters he fights on more than one occasion.

There's a reason I've started calling him Joker Doctor.

[Conscentia]

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

[Aqizithiuda]

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

The Doctor was killing someone in cold blood with what could be considered satisfaction, someone who pretty much said they were going to rape Nefertiti until her spirit broke.

Are you not seeing the darkness inherent in this scenario?

[Conscentia]

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

The Doctor was killing someone in cold blood with what could be considered satisfaction, someone who pretty much said they were going to rape Nefertiti until her spirit broke.
Are you not seeing the darkness inherent in this scenario?

The Doctor killed an unrepentant murderer who threatened his friends. Literally what he always does to people who threaten his friends. By the standards of Doctor Who, the Doctor's actions here aren't especially dark. Solomon himself was, but IIRC most of the darkness takes place off-screen.

[The Romulan Republic]

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

Its the hero murdering someone in cold blood. A bastard sure, but its still murder in cold blood. And taunting him while he does.

And frankly, I have a problem with your implication that anyone who disapproves of sadistic murder of criminals therefore sympathizes with those criminals.

[Conscentia]

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

Its the hero murdering someone in cold blood. A bastard sure, but its still murder in cold blood. And taunting him while he does.

I didn't say it wasn't dark, I said it wasn't that dark. By the standards of Doctor Who, the Doctor's actions here aren't especially dark.

He killed Solomon after telling him "get off this ship while you still can". Solomon was given the opportunity to leave and abandon the dinosaurs before the Doctor killed him.
As 10 said after murdering the Sycorax leader with a piece of fruit...
"No second chances, I'm that sort of a man".

And frankly, I have a problem with your implication that anyone who disapproves of sadistic murder of criminals therefore sympathizes with those criminals.

If one didn't have sympathy for them, then one would only be left with apathy. It is why most are not upset when insects are killed. They have no sympathy for the insects.

[Nation of Quebec]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?

When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run), fans of the darker and edgier style feel the actor's talents are wasted, but when you've got a dark doctor and dark, serious villains and stories, the darkness puts off younger and casual fans.

That's why I think Tennant's and Smith's doctors are more popular, as a light doctor in a dark universe has the most appeal, pleasing fans of both the dark and light styles.

I've always wondered why nobody liked Eccleston. . .

I actually really like Eccleston. He's my personal favorite Doctor and series 1 remains one of the best. His Doctor and most of his episodes are criminally underrated.

Too bad he had to deal with Rose, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a fantastic Doctor.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its the hero murdering someone in cold blood. A bastard sure, but its still murder in cold blood. And taunting him while he does.

I didn't say it wasn't dark, I said it wasn't that dark. By the standards of Doctor Who, the Doctor's actions here aren't especially dark.

He killed Solomon after telling him "get off this ship while you still can". Solomon was given the opportunity to leave and abandon the dinosaurs before the Doctor killed him.
As 10 said after murdering the Sycorax leader with a piece of fruit...
"No second chances, I'm that sort of a man".

And frankly, I have a problem with your implication that anyone who disapproves of sadistic murder of criminals therefore sympathizes with those criminals.

If one didn't have sympathy for them, then one would only be left with apathy. It is why most are not upset when insects are killed. They have no sympathy for the insects.

Well, I might despise a man and still feel that morally, its wrong to murder him for moral/philosophical reasons.

Anyway, the Doctor's darkness seems to vary a lot, both from one regeneration to another and within a given regeneration. Eleven was definitely on the dark end of the curve though, as is Twelve. Perhaps only the War Doctor was generally darker. And he at least had the "desperate times desperate measures" explanation.

[East Gondwana]

Let's see. . . ghosts, Earth Blowing up, and Killer TV Shows vs vampires, Slendermen, and Weeping Angels

I gotta go with 11 as darker.

That's... not what darkness is. Darkness is about the emotional content. That said, both runs got very dark at times.

Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways was actually quite a dark story. One of my personal favourite Doctor Who dystopias, it's dark because of the themes and setting. While the idea of killer reality tv may seem comical and silly (and it is, superficially), think about what it would mean to actually live in that world. "Half the world's too fat and half the world's too thin, and you lot just watch telly". Because the air outside is so polluted it's unbreathable, and at any moment you could be "chosen" for a game. And if you are chosen, it's play (or more often, win) or die. In some games you don't even have a chance to survive. The broadcast is monitored and processed by a person who is directly hooked up to the mainframe, plugged in as a child. Anyone who flees Earth is mopped up by the Daleks. That's pretty dark.

"See them shine? See how valuable they are? And they're all yours. Enjoy your bounty."

Wasn't that dark, unless you had sympathy for Solomon for some reason.

That scenario was considered dark by many not because he killed Solomon, but because he didn't seem be even the slightest bit saddened by the act of killing - as opposed to previous occasions when he seemed uncomfortable or concerned, like with the Racnoss or the Sontarans.



I've generally seen 11 as the darkest Doctor of New Who; he was more likely to fly off the handle and lose himself, and had far less qualms about killing. 9 wasn't actually that dark, he was just angry and frustrated. Remember the exchange between himself and the Dalek Emperor in The Parting Of The Ways: "Are you a coward, or a killer?" "Coward. Any day."

In terms of how dark the themes of the stories in each era were, I'd probably say that Tennant's era was the darkest overall; there were quite a few dystopias (Gridlock, Utopia, Planet Of The Ood, The Doctor's Daughter, Turn Left), and what could be the darkest ever episode - Turn Left. I think it's really a balance that needs to be maintained between story themes and the Doctor's character, when talking about "darkness".

[Tokuopolis]

Is it just me or does doctor who seem at it's best and most appealing when we have a light doctor against a dark universe?

When you've got a dark doctor against light, campy villains and stories (like Eccleston's run), fans of the darker and edgier style feel the actor's talents are wasted, but when you've got a dark doctor and dark, serious villains and stories, the darkness puts off younger and casual fans.

That's why I think Tennant's and Smith's doctors are more popular, as a light doctor in a dark universe has the most appeal, pleasing fans of both the dark and light styles.

I've always wondered why nobody liked Eccleston. . .

I wasn't saying nobody liked Eccleston, plenty of fans did. They just feel the shortness of his run and the deliberately campy nature of most of the villains (to quote Tvtropes:homicidal recycling bins and dummies, farting Replicant Snatcher fat-people aliens, a zombie granny, an alien implanted on the ceiling of space station, and a Rich Diva plastic surgery disaster, all fairly threatening but all Played for Laughs) meant his take on the character was half-wasted (although it is thought to improve with Dalek). Some of the villains, like the daleks and the empty child, are thought to be better suited to 9's grim n gritty personality.

Since we're talking about Eccleston, I have a theory about Mr and Mrs Pakoo. In the episode, it is never said how they are rich and famous in the year 5 Billion. But what if they aren't? They could be just a normal married couple who won a trip to Earthdeath on Platform One in a competition.

BTW, I'm aware that both 10 and 11 had their dark moments, but they are generally lighter (or considered lighter) than 9 & 12.

I'm very surprised at the number of replies.

[Tokuopolis]

New Tardis Index file

Den of Geek news

Michelle Gomez wins BAFTA

I hope Moffat puts his all into his final series. Not just because its his final one, but because it is the tenth series of NuWho (36th overall). It's an important anniversary for the new show. Getting Anniversary seasons right is hard, as the writers of Power Rangers will tell you.