The (Regenerated) Doctor Who Thread: Reverse the Polarity!

[Alvecia]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. The Zygon two parter was one of my favourites. And not just cause of the speech either.

Why? Even ignoring the not-at-all veiled political bit, the writing was completely idiotic. And it just ignored that earths population was doubled by 6 billion in one day cause apparently Zygons are supposed to be sympathetic now. And that's not even getting into how braindead UNIT was.

It was well paced, the dialogue was great, the characters well written (love the Osgoods), and I enjoyed the premise and its resolution.
I don't quabble about the silly little details, cause honestly if you looked with anything remotely resembling a discerning eyye, almost every single episode would encounter some kind of little "plot hole".
That the entire population of Earth just losing all knowledge of all the alien invasions that happen on almost a day to day basis has become a running joke is evidence of this.

[Philjia]

And I found it to be heavy-handed crap. He was a good Doctor, saddled with the most blatant political storylines I've ever seen. I mean that terrible Zygon two-parter used a metaphor for immigration. Awful.

I seem to remember only the first part felt like a terrorism allegory. The second was more futility of war, cycle of violence stuff. And it was fucking brilliant.

Capaldi performed it well, but it's the literal representation of why New Who is shit at politics. It always has The Doctor explaining the moral of the story to the audience like they're a bunch of particularly stupid five year olds who can't extract meaning from subtext. Classic Who was never subtle with it's messaging (Look at The Sun Makers or The Caves of Androzani), but they it credited it's audience with the faintest modicum of intelligence.

[Ameriganastan]

It was well paced,

It was 2 parts and even then it felt dragged out and boring.

the dialogue was great,

The dialogue had all the depth of a first year poli-sci students thesis.

the characters well written (love the Osgoods),

The Zygon impersonators were the most generic kind of bad guys, and everyone else was written like a draft horse had kicked them in the head.

and I enjoyed the premise and its resolution.

Yeah, great resolution. There are 6 billion extra people on earth, and half of them are psychotic, murderous aliens. Great resolution.

I don't quabble about the silly little details, cause honestly if you looked with anything remotely resembling a discerning eyye, almost every single episode would encounter some kind of little "plot hole".
That the entire population of Earth just losing all knowledge of all the alien invasions that happen on almost a day to day basis has become a running joke is evidence of this.

Yeah, this isn't a little detail. This is a big plot point they just gloss over.

[Alvecia]

It was well paced,

It was 2 parts and even then it felt dragged out and boring.

the dialogue was great,

The dialogue had all the depth of a first year poli-sci students thesis.

the characters well written (love the Osgoods),

The Zygon impersonators were the most generic kind of bad guys, and everyone else was written like a draft horse had kicked them in the head.

and I enjoyed the premise and its resolution.

Yeah, great resolution. There are 6 billion extra people on earth, and half of them are psychotic, murderous aliens. Great resolution.

Agree to disagree

I don't quabble about the silly little details, cause honestly if you looked with anything remotely resembling a discerning eyye, almost every single episode would encounter some kind of little "plot hole".
That the entire population of Earth just losing all knowledge of all the alien invasions that happen on almost a day to day basis has become a running joke is evidence of this.

Yeah, this isn't a little detail. This is a big plot point they just gloss over.

It is a little detail. This happens all the time with media these days. Everyone needs to have every little details wrapped up in a nice neat bow and explicitly addressed. Nobody can come to their own conclusions any more.

[Ameriganastan]

Agree to disagree

Oh, great defense.

[Alvecia]

Agree to disagree

Oh, great defense.

Would you prefer I instead be trying to convince you why my opinions are objectively correct?

[The Huskar Social Union]

fite fite fite fite fite

[Alvecia]

fite fite fite fite fite

[Dumb Ideologies]

I got round to watching the first episode of the new series at last while off sick from work and it was...okay. There were a few lines that were really good and I like the move towards inserting backstory even for characters who got offed by the big bad in only a minute or two, made it a bit more impactful by making them actually feel a bit like people rather than placeholder victims.

The bad? New doctor not doing it for me. I'm pre-against this whole trend toward everything automatically being good and worthy of praise if it has a female lead. I've written about that before, I'll fully admit I come in with biases. But any more wooden aat times and you'd have to apply a coat of varnish. The over the top expressions and strained slightly huffy voice aren't -to me - exuding the authority that's intended, and it's occasionally quite cringey. I get vibes of an overworked nursery teacher spliced with a younger Theresa May telling aliens she's going to be "bloody difficult Doctor", and that's not a good starting point on a show where the lead has to be very leadery and persuade people to follow by force of personality and character.

So whereas Capaldi's era was one of a superior actor elevating episodes full of some occasionally pretty awful writing and supporting cast members who were really fecking annoying, my first impression is of good writing and supporting cast brought down by some suspicious lead work. I'll give the next few a go, maybe she'll bed into the role once the initial try-hardness wears off a bit.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I got round to watching the first episode of the new series at last while off sick from work and it was...okay. There were a few lines that were really good and I like the move towards inserting backstory even for characters who got offed by the big bad in only a minute or two, made it a bit more impactful by making them actually feel a bit like people rather than placeholder victims.

The bad? New doctor not doing it for me. I'm pre-against this whole trend toward everything automatically being good and worthy of praise if it has a female lead. I've written about that before, I'll fully admit I come in with biases. But any more wooden aat times and you'd have to apply a coat of varnish. The over the top expressions and strained slightly huffy voice aren't -to me - exuding the authority that's intended, and it's occasionally quite cringey. I get vibes of an overworked nursery teacher spliced with a younger Theresa May telling aliens she's going to be "bloody difficult Doctor", and that's not a good starting point on a show where the lead has to be very leadery and persuade people to follow by force of personality and character.

So whereas Capaldi's era was one of a superior actor elevating some occasionally pretty awful writing, my first impression is of good writing and supporting cast brought down by some suspicious lead work. I'll give the next few a go, maybe she'll bed into the role once the initial try-hardness wears off a bit.

rip grandpa security guard

[Philjia]

The bad? New doctor not doing it for me. I'm pre-against this whole trend toward everything automatically being good and worthy of praise if it has a female lead. I've written about that before, I'll fully admit I come in with biases. But any more wooden aat times and you'd have to apply a coat of varnish. The over the top expressions and strained slightly huffy voice aren't -to me - exuding the authority that's intended, and it's occasionally quite cringey. I get vibes of an overworked nursery teacher spliced with a younger Theresa May telling aliens she's going to be "bloody difficult Doctor", and that's not a good starting point on a show where the lead has to be very leadery and persuade people to follow by force of personality and character.

I think a lot of the blame for her dodgy performance can be directed at the director and Chibnall. There was a weird combination of mostly quite serious dialogue and whimsical non-sequiturs, which she was apparently directed to deliver all of with a fairly comedic inflection. She's not experienced as a comedic actress so understandably struggled with that. However, Christopher Eccleston wasn't experienced in comedy either, but gave a very strong performance in his early episodes, even though he had a fairly bad relationship with the people overseeing production.

[Astrolinium]

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was proper, full on rubbish.

You know, Doctor Who is supposed to be a show for the whole family that does fun things sometimes. This isn't Game of Thrones. Just because an episode here and there is actually just some good-natured fun (Dinosaurs! On a spaceship!) doesn't mean it's rubbish.

[Alvecia]

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was proper, full on rubbish.

You know, Doctor Who is supposed to be a show for the whole family that does fun things sometimes. This isn't Game of Thrones. Just because an episode here and there is actually just some good-natured fun (Dinosaurs! On a spaceship!) doesn't mean it's rubbish.

That's another one that I actually like as well. Seems I'm often on this side of the fence when it comes to the "unpopular" episodes.

[Astrolinium]

You know, Doctor Who is supposed to be a show for the whole family that does fun things sometimes. This isn't Game of Thrones. Just because an episode here and there is actually just some good-natured fun (Dinosaurs! On a spaceship!) doesn't mean it's rubbish.

That's another one that I actually like as well. Seems I'm often on this side of the fence when it comes to the "unpopular" episodes.

I feel like people sometimes want every episode to be a contender for a Hugo Award or a BAFTA and forget that it's okay for a show primarily intended as family entertainment to just be gleefully entertaining for 40-odd minutes.

[Ameriganastan]

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was proper, full on rubbish.

The Hell you say. That episode is great. Cleopatra, dinosaurs, Mitchell and Webb as murderbots, David Bradley, that improvised kiss on Rory, a good joke about balls...I can go on.

[Dumb Ideologies]

On a purely personal level, I have to add bonus points for:

"I suppose you'll be blaming this on the dyspraxia as well. Can't ride a bike, started an alien invasion!".

That worked as a mildly funny line for a general audience but also worked on a much more niche level and relatable level for me as an actual dyspraxic.

Dyspraxia often has a bunch of coordinational, organisational etc. elements to it that seem unconnected to normies, and when new people are introduced to it (be it in a school setting with someone who has to be "disadvantaged" by being on your team in PE, with having to work with you on a project in everyday life, and - yes - with someone who marries into the family) they do often unironically end up getting mad and going "what, this too???" and throwing a wobbly about how you've messed up again and the whole thing's an excuse. Given the evidently slightly tense relations between the two of them, it's a spot-on piece of writing.

[Astrolinium]

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was proper, full on rubbish.

The Hell you say. That episode is great. Cleopatra, dinosaurs, Mitchell and Webb as murderbots, David Bradley, that improvised kiss on Rory, a good joke about balls...I can go on.

When Ameri and I agree on a piece of media, even to the point of mostly agreeing on which elements are what made it great, you know some planets must have aligned or something. It was Nefertiti, though.

On a purely personal level, I have to add bonus points for:

"I suppose you'll be blaming this on the dyspraxia as well. Can't ride a bike, started an alien invasion!".

That worked as a mildly funny line for a general audience but also worked on a much more niche level and relatable level for me as an actual dyspraxic.

Dyspraxia often has a bunch of coordinational, organisational etc. elements to it that seem unconnected to normies, and when new people are introduced to it (be it in a school setting with someone who has to be "disadvantaged" by being on your team in PE, with having to work with you on a project in everyday life, and - yes - with someone who marries into the family) they do often unironically end up getting mad and going "what, this too???" and throwing a wobbly about how you've messed up again and the whole thing's an excuse. Given the evidently slightly tense relations between the two of them, it's a spot-on piece of writing.

That really spoke to me as someone who, while I don't have dyspraxia, I do have ADHD, and the same kind of thing has been thrown at me all my life, often by family members. I can definitely empathize with how it probably feels similar for someone with dyspraxia — neurotypical people often really fail to understand how much a disorder affects your entire life, not just the parts that are the least inconvenient for them. Something I really like so far is how many little, tiny details the episode had like that which really fleshed it out and made the world feel true. Moffat was a very big picture writer and I enjoyed that and will always love his era of the show, but it's also refreshing to get something that is very, very good in a wholly different way.

[Astrolinium]

Case File One - The Stenza

Nice to be getting this kind of supplemental material again, even if it doesn't really add anything "new".

[Eastfield Lodge]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. The Zygon two parter was one of my favourites. And not just cause of the speech either.

Why? Even ignoring the not-at-all veiled political bit, the writing was completely idiotic. And it just ignored that earths population was doubled by 6 billion in one day cause apparently Zygons are supposed to be sympathetic now. And that's not even getting into how braindead UNIT was.

Rest of the episode aside, I must pain myself in correcting you about the Zygon population. It was an entire Zygon hatchery, but a tiny one because their homeworld was lost. The actual figure stated in the show is 20 million Zygons. A drop in the ocean of the 6-7 billion.

[Ameriganastan]

Why? Even ignoring the not-at-all veiled political bit, the writing was completely idiotic. And it just ignored that earths population was doubled by 6 billion in one day cause apparently Zygons are supposed to be sympathetic now. And that's not even getting into how braindead UNIT was.

Rest of the episode aside, I must pain myself in correcting you about the Zygon population. It was an entire Zygon hatchery, but a tiny one because their homeworld was lost. The actual figure stated in the show is 20 million Zygons. A drop in the ocean of the 6-7 billion.

Whatever. Still 20 million hostile aliens in disguise on earth.

[Alvecia]

Rest of the episode aside, I must pain myself in correcting you about the Zygon population. It was an entire Zygon hatchery, but a tiny one because their homeworld was lost. The actual figure stated in the show is 20 million Zygons. A drop in the ocean of the 6-7 billion.

Whatever. Still 20 million hostile aliens in disguise on earth.

Judging by the amount of times that a hostile alien/species ends up hiding in the human population/underground/in orbit, thats just business as usual.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Rest of the episode aside, I must pain myself in correcting you about the Zygon population. It was an entire Zygon hatchery, but a tiny one because their homeworld was lost. The actual figure stated in the show is 20 million Zygons. A drop in the ocean of the 6-7 billion.

Whatever. Still 20 million hostile aliens in disguise on earth.

Also, not all 20 million are hostile. Standard Zygon biology is just to infiltrate another species and spend the rest of their life hiding out in plain sight. Sure, that's also a weapon, but the story was about a minor splinter of the Zygon High Command wanting to radicalise all 20 million by forcing them to reveal themselves and cause panic.
Going by the immigrant equivalence, you're saying that all refugees (which this was, a refugee crisis) are hostile.

[Ameriganastan]

Whatever. Still 20 million hostile aliens in disguise on earth.

Judging by the amount of times that a hostile alien/species ends up hiding in the human population/underground/in orbit, thats just business as usual.

Yeah, except The Doctor HELPED THEM HIDE. Cause for some idiotic reason, that episode thought Zygon's were suddenly easy to sympathize with.

[Alvecia]

Judging by the amount of times that a hostile alien/species ends up hiding in the human population/underground/in orbit, thats just business as usual.

Yeah, except The Doctor HELPED THEM HIDE. Cause for some idiotic reason, that episode thought Zygon's were suddenly easy to sympathize with.

Weren't hostile at that point tho

[Ameriganastan]

Yeah, except The Doctor HELPED THEM HIDE. Cause for some idiotic reason, that episode thought Zygon's were suddenly easy to sympathize with.

Weren't hostile at that point tho

They're ZYGONS. For cripes sake. Maybe if this episode was competently written and not a lazy edition of "Writer vents their political views", I wouldn't have an issue with it. But guess what? It wasn't.