Writing Discussion II

[Nazi Flower Power]

Presumably, he should go inside. I'm guessing it's dark inside, at least in some parts of the building, so he needs to feel his way around and move carefully. He might want to avoid being seen or heard since not everyone will be Northern spies.

That's part of the problem, though. I don't really want to write him as a POV character, and I'm kind of trying to alienate him - at least, at the beginning.

Writing the prologue from his POV doesn't mean you have to use him as the viewpoint character anywhere else.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

That's part of the problem, though. I don't really want to write him as a POV character, and I'm kind of trying to alienate him - at least, at the beginning.

Writing the prologue from his POV doesn't mean you have to use him as the viewpoint character anywhere else.

Using anyone as a POV character, even briefly, makes them a lot more accessible to the reader, and it sounds like Claanyad is deliberately trying to avoid that, which is reasonable.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Writing the prologue from his POV doesn't mean you have to use him as the viewpoint character anywhere else.

Using anyone as a POV character, even briefly, makes them a lot more accessible to the reader, and it sounds like Claanyad is deliberately trying to avoid that, which is reasonable.

Then why didn't he write the whole thing from a different POV from the beginning? Like one of the people inside who is going about their business, but then unexpectedly comes across the intruder?

Using a different POV character is fine, but having that one scene and then switching is going to be awkward.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

Using anyone as a POV character, even briefly, makes them a lot more accessible to the reader, and it sounds like Claanyad is deliberately trying to avoid that, which is reasonable.

Then why didn't he write the whole thing from a different POV from the beginning? Like one of the people inside who is going about their business, but then unexpectedly comes across the intruder?

Using a different POV character is fine, but having that one scene and then switching is going to be awkward.

The scene was written from an objective point of view. I don't see why switching to some other point of view later would necessarily be awkward (assuming the main story picks up in a completely different time and/or place, which is what I'd expect considering that this is a prologue).

[Nazi Flower Power]

Then why didn't he write the whole thing from a different POV from the beginning? Like one of the people inside who is going about their business, but then unexpectedly comes across the intruder?

Using a different POV character is fine, but having that one scene and then switching is going to be awkward.

The scene was written from an objective point of view. I don't see why switching to some other point of view later would necessarily be awkward (assuming the main story picks up in a completely different time and/or place, which is what I'd expect considering that this is a prologue).

I think you may have misunderstood me. I am saying it would be awkward to jump from what he has already written straight to a different point of view without expanding the prologue first. I am not saying that it would be awkward to expand the prologue so it has something actually happening and THEN write the main story from a different POV.

[Urulandia]

Hi everyone. I've only recently got back into reading and trying to write since life got in my way for the last few years. I used to write obsessibly as a teenager and want to get back into it now, hopefully write 50,000 words for the next NaNoWriMo. The thing is I have lost all ability to write and would love some advice on getting back into it.

I'm trying to write a novel for Camp NaNoWriMo which starts in July. I've done some Worldbuilding and written a prologue, tell me what you think. I would love to get different criticisms on it as I don't think it's up to the standard I would like.

Yeah, it looks like you still need to shake the proverbial rust off.

Gareth could hear the howls and voices advancing on him with each heartbeat. His feet throbbed. His breaths short and demoralised. <This is not a sentence. The jungle was slicing away at him, razor leaves and thorns lacerating his face and feet. The men yelling at him in indecipherable tongues, only adding to the cacophony of madding sounds of the jungle. Each yell grew louder and louder. The weight of their feet, heavier and heavier. <He's not lifting their feet, so why does he care if they're heavy? When I think about, I can figure out what you meant, but you'd be better off saying it another way. Maybe something about "their footsteps" instead of "their feet." It's also not a sentence. He knew they were close now. One of their beasts was to his side, maybe only a hundred or so feet away. Gareth just wished for them to end it, his body had given up after the first mile.<Run-on. The beast was in front of him now. It’s yellow eyes screamed “Death." He looked back and saw the bright spotted flowers protruding from it’s owner's headdress. These could not be men, they had been running for miles and their breathing was still slow and precise.<Another run-on. Gareth saw the club, he wished it was a blade. <Run-on here too. The man approached gradually [,]knowing his prey couldn’t run. Barefoot and bare-chested[,] he looked as if he we more beast than man. His eyes meet met Gareth's, but it’s his gaze was frenzied. The man['s] eyes were wide and unyielding, unlike his movements. He raised his club and darkness came.

I've added some edits in pink to point out where you have grammatical problems or the meaning is just really unclear.

Aside from that, there are a few other places that feel clunky, but not enough to be confusing. And I am not sure this belongs in a prologue. I suppose it depends on what the rest of the story is and how this ties into it.

My writing obviously needs a lot of work. I'm reading up on a lot of forums and sub-reddits about writing to get tips and advice as well.

Thanks for reading what I wrote. I'm hoping over the next few years to get my writing up to a good standard. I've started writing everyday now. Is there anything you guys recommend me checking out that helped you with your writing.

Also here's my new paragraph edited with your advice.

Gareth could hear the howls and voices advancing on him with each heartbeat. His feet throbbed. Each breath becoming shorter and more distressed. The jungle was slicing away at him, razor leaves and thorns lacerating his face and feet. He used his hands to push through the living labyrinth .The men yelling at him in indecipherable tongues, only adding to the cacophony of madding sounds of the jungle. Each yell grew louder and louder. The sound of their powerful footsteps were booming against the jungle floor. They were closing in. Gareth desperately searched the tangled abyss of vegetation for a way to escape. It was impossible to tell which direction one was running. The men knew, they had done this many times. A beast was in front of him now. It’s eager yellow eyes screaming “Death." He looked back and saw the bright spotted flowers protruding from it’s owner's headdress. Their breathing was still slow and precise. A man approached gradually, knowing his prey could no longer run. Barefoot and bare-chested. His stare met Gareth's, with frenzied gaze. His eyes were wide and unyielding. He raised his club and darkness came.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Yeah, it looks like you still need to shake the proverbial rust off.



I've added some edits in pink to point out where you have grammatical problems or the meaning is just really unclear.

Aside from that, there are a few other places that feel clunky, but not enough to be confusing. And I am not sure this belongs in a prologue. I suppose it depends on what the rest of the story is and how this ties into it.

My writing obviously needs a lot of work. I'm reading up on a lot of forums and sub-reddits about writing to get tips and advice as well.

Thanks for reading what I wrote. I'm hoping over the next few years to get my writing up to a good standard. I've started writing everyday now. Is there anything you guys recommend me checking out that helped you with your writing.

You might want to brush up on the rules of grammar. It seems like you're having a little trouble with sentence fragments. There are times when it's OK to use fragments for dramatic effect, but it's a problem if you have too many or if they look accidental.

A sentence needs to have at least one verb that is not an "-ing" verb.

[Luminesa]

It looks like you're trying too hard to make it fancy. I crossed out some words that you could take out without losing any of the meaning. There are other places where you should try to simplify the language, but it needs more work than just deleting unneeded words.

I'll agree, I'm guilty of that.

Apart from that, you need to keep going and write what happens next because this by itself isn't enough for either a prologue or a first chapter.

Of course. I would't stop there if I could help it. I'm just stuck on what to write next.

It sounds pretty good, but yeah, you need to make it longer. Hmmm...

What you write next depends on your intentions. The king just died, right? Well, maybe hold a meeting to discuss what needs to be done about this. A bunch of characters could show up here, talking about who will claim the throne. You could establish a few characters, and maybe even start the war!

[Bontavation]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

[Armeia]

Anyone else working on a story/novel based on their NS country? I'm doing some short stories about Armeia that are going to tie into a real novel.

[The New World Oceania]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

A story shouldn't necessarily start with the inciting incident, rather just before it. See The Importance of Being Earnest, for example.

[Luminesa]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

Hahaha! I'm having the same problem! Maybe I could send you my intro, and we could help each other out?

[Bontavation]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

Hahaha! I'm having the same problem! Maybe I could send you my intro, and we could help each other out?

Send me yours, I'll be sure to check it out.

[Armeia]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

There's this other political novel I'm writing too, it's about a Bangladeshi dictator and his family who flee to Sweden after getting ousted, I'm having trouble doing an intro for it too. It's hard not to make the early scenes, which are shootouts between the Bangladeshi military and the rebels, seem rushed.

[Nerotysia]

Starting a novel is fucking impossible.

I wrote the entire thing. 109,831 words. Except, I skipped the introduction. It was too hard, so I figured I'd just get back to later. Now I'm done with the whole thing except for the intro, so I have to go back and write it, but it isn't any easier.

The intro has to hook the audience immediately. That's not easy.

I know that a story should start out with whatever sparks the conflict. The problem is, that's a conversation. Two characters the audience doesn't know, in a place the audience doesn't know, talking about things the audience doesn't know.

Does it need the introduction? Or can you edit your next scene so that it doesn't need it?

A story shouldn't necessarily start with the inciting incident, rather just before it. See The Importance of Being Earnest, for example.

This is true, but the opening should still hook the reader. Ideally from the very first word, something interesting should be happening.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Anyone else working on a story/novel based on their NS country? I'm doing some short stories about Armeia that are going to tie into a real novel.

I've considered using the Serene and Glorious Reich in a novel, but not as the actual setting. For most things it is easier to use a less ridiculous setting.

[Claanyad]

I'll agree, I'm guilty of that.


Of course. I would't stop there if I could help it. I'm just stuck on what to write next.

It sounds pretty good, but yeah, you need to make it longer. Hmmm...

What you write next depends on your intentions. The king just died, right? Well, maybe hold a meeting to discuss what needs to be done about this. A bunch of characters could show up here, talking about who will claim the throne. You could establish a few characters, and maybe even start the war!

Again, I really want to alienate the Northerners, so starting the war then would be difficult. As for a meeting of some sort, that is more possible, but the main issue (and reason that the Northerner came to power) is that there is chaos in the Kingdom, stemming from not knowing who would become the next King (due to there already being a healthy heir). The Northerner, being an opportunist, takes the throne and the war starts. Really, from what I had envisioned, the prologue is just the main event - hearing about the King's death, then this intruder killing the heir.
I feel like I'd be able to write what happens afterwards, but I work very chronologically, so to write that without the prologue might throw me off. I get your point, though.

Anyone else working on a story/novel based on their NS country? I'm doing some short stories about Armeia that are going to tie into a real novel.

One of the nations in this book was the inspiration for my NS country, so yet, I suppose so.

[Luminesa]

It sounds pretty good, but yeah, you need to make it longer. Hmmm...

What you write next depends on your intentions. The king just died, right? Well, maybe hold a meeting to discuss what needs to be done about this. A bunch of characters could show up here, talking about who will claim the throne. You could establish a few characters, and maybe even start the war!

Again, I really want to alienate the Northerners, so starting the war then would be difficult. As for a meeting of some sort, that is more possible, but the main issue (and reason that the Northerner came to power) is that there is chaos in the Kingdom, stemming from not knowing who would become the next King (due to there already being a healthy heir). The Northerner, being an opportunist, takes the throne and the war starts. Really, from what I had envisioned, the prologue is just the main event - hearing about the King's death, then this intruder killing the heir.
I feel like I'd be able to write what happens afterwards, but I work very chronologically, so to write that without the prologue might throw me off. I get your point, though.

Anyone else working on a story/novel based on their NS country? I'm doing some short stories about Armeia that are going to tie into a real novel.

One of the nations in this book was the inspiration for my NS country, so yet, I suppose so.

Well, then use the prologue to write out this part. I mean, the cloaked dude is in the castle at this point, right? Here's my idea:

1.) Have the meeting happen, with the cloaked dude sneaking in. Everybody starts arguing about the new heir to the throne.
2.) Once the cloaked dude finds out who the heir is supposed to be, he goes and finds him, and he kills him. He then leaves a calling card of
some sort. A guard comes later that night and sees he's dead, and well...all hell breaks loose!

[Claanyad]

Again, I really want to alienate the Northerners, so starting the war then would be difficult. As for a meeting of some sort, that is more possible, but the main issue (and reason that the Northerner came to power) is that there is chaos in the Kingdom, stemming from not knowing who would become the next King (due to there already being a healthy heir). The Northerner, being an opportunist, takes the throne and the war starts. Really, from what I had envisioned, the prologue is just the main event - hearing about the King's death, then this intruder killing the heir.
I feel like I'd be able to write what happens afterwards, but I work very chronologically, so to write that without the prologue might throw me off. I get your point, though.


One of the nations in this book was the inspiration for my NS country, so yet, I suppose so.

Well, then use the prologue to write out this part. I mean, the cloaked dude is in the castle at this point, right? Here's my idea:

1.) Have the meeting happen, with the cloaked dude sneaking in. Everybody starts arguing about the new heir to the throne.
2.) Once the cloaked dude finds out who the heir is supposed to be, he goes and finds him, and he kills him. He then leaves a calling card of
some sort. A guard comes later that night and sees he's dead, and well...all hell breaks loose!

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The King's son is the only direct heir, and he only has one known son, so they know who the heir is. The cloaked man, having heard of the King's demise, takes the opportunity to kill him before he can take the throne. Someone finds him dead, and that is when the succession crisis begins, with the meeting of the council and the invasion of the Northerners.

[Luminesa]

Well, then use the prologue to write out this part. I mean, the cloaked dude is in the castle at this point, right? Here's my idea:

1.) Have the meeting happen, with the cloaked dude sneaking in. Everybody starts arguing about the new heir to the throne.
2.) Once the cloaked dude finds out who the heir is supposed to be, he goes and finds him, and he kills him. He then leaves a calling card of
some sort. A guard comes later that night and sees he's dead, and well...all hell breaks loose!

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The King's son is the only direct heir, and he only has one known son, so they know who the heir is. The cloaked man, having heard of the King's demise, takes the opportunity to kill him before he can take the throne. Someone finds him dead, and that is when the succession crisis begins, with the meeting of the council and the invasion of the Northerners.

Ohhh, I must have read the part about the king's successor wrong. Sorry 'bout that!

[Nazi Flower Power]

It sounds pretty good, but yeah, you need to make it longer. Hmmm...

What you write next depends on your intentions. The king just died, right? Well, maybe hold a meeting to discuss what needs to be done about this. A bunch of characters could show up here, talking about who will claim the throne. You could establish a few characters, and maybe even start the war!

Again, I really want to alienate the Northerners, so starting the war then would be difficult. As for a meeting of some sort, that is more possible, but the main issue (and reason that the Northerner came to power) is that there is chaos in the Kingdom, stemming from not knowing who would become the next King (due to there already being a healthy heir). The Northerner, being an opportunist, takes the throne and the war starts. Really, from what I had envisioned, the prologue is just the main event - hearing about the King's death, then this intruder killing the heir.
I feel like I'd be able to write what happens afterwards, but I work very chronologically, so to write that without the prologue might throw me off. I get your point, though.

Rather than start with the guy coming to the gate, would it make sense to start with someone hearing about the old king's death?

Unlike some of the other prologues people have been posting lately, this one doesn't look like a bad choice of where to start the story -- but only if you're going to follow through writing it. Talking about how the torches have gone out is not a good place to cut from the prologue to chapter 1. You need to either wrap up the scene properly or just cut it and open with something else.

If people are going to have a meeting after this, that belongs in the main body of the novel, not the prologue. Unless it's something this guy is about to walk in on.

[Vozt Yurkova]

Anyone else working on a story/novel based on their NS country? I'm doing some short stories about Armeia that are going to tie into a real novel.

My NS country is actually ripped from a wordlbuilding project I started years ago that has steadily evolved into something almost totally different and still nowhere near complete.

[Claanyad]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The King's son is the only direct heir, and he only has one known son, so they know who the heir is. The cloaked man, having heard of the King's demise, takes the opportunity to kill him before he can take the throne. Someone finds him dead, and that is when the succession crisis begins, with the meeting of the council and the invasion of the Northerners.

Ohhh, I must have read the part about the king's successor wrong. Sorry 'bout that!

Ah, it's fine. I talk to another person about it, and he keeps on confusing everything, so I understand that until it's written it may be a bit sketchy.

Again, I really want to alienate the Northerners, so starting the war then would be difficult. As for a meeting of some sort, that is more possible, but the main issue (and reason that the Northerner came to power) is that there is chaos in the Kingdom, stemming from not knowing who would become the next King (due to there already being a healthy heir). The Northerner, being an opportunist, takes the throne and the war starts. Really, from what I had envisioned, the prologue is just the main event - hearing about the King's death, then this intruder killing the heir.
I feel like I'd be able to write what happens afterwards, but I work very chronologically, so to write that without the prologue might throw me off. I get your point, though.

Rather than start with the guy coming to the gate, would it make sense to start with someone hearing about the old king's death?

Unlike some of the other prologues people have been posting lately, this one doesn't look like a bad choice of where to start the story -- but only if you're going to follow through writing it. Talking about how the torches have gone out is not a good place to cut from the prologue to chapter 1. You need to either wrap up the scene properly or just cut it and open with something else.

If people are going to have a meeting after this, that belongs in the main body of the novel, not the prologue. Unless it's something this guy is about to walk in on.

That could work. Actually, that might work better.
The part about the torches was never intended to be the end of the prologue. It was going to continue onto something else - I just hadn't gotten around to it. Remember, that was the beginning of probably my fifteenth draft.
And yes, the meeting is going to be in the main part of the novel. I am intending to write chapters based on location, so the Prologue is based on Marlowe's Rock, the Heir's lands, and the next one either in the Kingdom's capital itself or in a lesser Lord's holding.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It's been a while since I posted any actual writing in this thread...

I wrote this as the opening of a short story, and I like some of the imagery, but I wasn't sure exactly where I was going with it -- and then when I did think of a plot for this setting it wasn't one that went well with this opening. I'm not sure what, if anything, I am going to do with it at this point.

It was cold and drizzling in the ruins of New York. The sky overhead was as dead and gray as the pavement of the deserted streets, and the empty skyscrapers had the look of giant gravestones. John and his children picked their way across their vegetable garden in what had once been Central Park. All the vegetables had been harvested and the remaining stalks of the plants were brown and withered. Winter was coming, and it was too cold to grow anything else until the spring, but they still had to feed their pigs and chickens and collect the eggs from the chicken coop. The children scattered chicken feed on the ground and playfully ran around throwing handfuls at each other while the chickens scrambled to eat. "Don't hurt each other, okay?" said John.

"We won't!" said his daughter, Sheri. Answering John distracted her for a moment, and her brother, Joshua, took advantage of the opportunity to splatter the side of her head with chicken feed. Sheri shrieked and ran after him throwing chicken feed at his back. The chickens went scurrying every which way to avoid getting stepped on, and to snatch up the food.

John left the children to their play-fighting and went over to the pig pen to fill the feeding trough. The pigs rushed over to eat. John sighed. This was not the life he had planned when he came to New York as a young man. To the children, it was more or less normal. It was the only life they had ever known. But John could never get used to it. He still remembered the city the way it had been in its glory days, before the Qinhuangdao virus, and he remembered watching the city die. He remembered his first wife and his first daughter, who the virus had killed. He remembered cremating bodies and turning abandoned subway tunnels into mass graves. He remembered catching the virus himself and becoming so delirious that he lost all sense of how long he lay sick in bed. When he finally regained his senses, he found himself wrapped in filthy soiled sheets, ravenously hungry, and so thirty it burned. There was an overwhelming stench in the air, and flies buzzed around the room. He was in a hospital, but nobody came when he pushed the nurse call button. He managed to stagger over to the bathroom to drink and wash himself, then went stumbling and crawling around the hospital looking for food and help. He found a refrigerator that still had some sandwiches in it, but there was no one else alive in the entire building. The hallways and the rooms were filled with the dead -- some in their sick beds and others sprawled on the floor wherever they had collapsed. Some of the bodies had started to decompose, and they had attracted a large number of flies and rats. Even if John hadn't already been sick, the sight and the smell would still have made him gag.

Since that day, John had tried to put his life back together. He had remarried and started a new family and planted his vegetable garden in Central Park, but it was impossible to ignore everything he had lost. It still looked wrong to see the streets deserted during the day and dark at night. He still felt a twinge of guilt for the landscaping he had torn up when he made his farm and the doors of grocery stores that he had broken down to get at the food inside, and he wondered if he had really done the right thing by bringing Sheri and Joshua into a world that was so damaged. They sometimes asked questions about what the world was like before the Qinhuangdao virus, but they didn't seem to really understand the horror of what had happened. John worried about what it would be like for them when they were old enough to understand -- if they even lived that long. He had seen so many people die already, there was no telling when someone else might die. Within a year after the epidemic began, the few surviving news outlets stopped reporting the number of people the virus had killed and switched to reporting the number of people who were still left in the world. The number was down to around two million, and it was still dropping.

They collected the eggs from the chicken coop and started back toward their apartment on the Upper East Side. Sheri chattered excitedly and sometimes skipped ahead of her father and brother, but then stopped and waited impatiently for them to catch up. "Why do you guys always walk so slow?" she said. Joshua complained that he was cold, and John told him to button his jacket. He coughed a little as they walked the last block to their apartment, and John couldn't help but immediately worry about his health. After witnessing so much sickness and death, even the slightest hint of an illness was terrifying. He took off his hat and put it on Joshua's little head to keep the drizzle off while they walked the last short way to the building where they lived.

They lived in an elegant building. It was the same building that John had lived in before the epidemic, and he had worked hard to be able to afford it in those days, but it didn't feel like such a privilege to live there now that the neighborhood was mostly abandoned. The architecture was still as beautiful as ever, but there was a coldness about it now that the doorman was gone and half the light bulbs were burnt out. The marble floor in the front hall had become dull and dingy since no one polished it anymore, and spider webs hung from the tops of the pillasters.

[Nazi Flower Power]

And yes, the meeting is going to be in the main part of the novel.

Good.