Writing Discussion II

[Vancon]

May I ask for some criticism of my characters?

In this vein, anyone else got any character issues they wanna talk about? Most of this thread is about meta stuff - motivating yourself to write, being in writing contests, that sort of anything.

Well, I have this char in a RP that I've been in and I'd like to stay there. My problem is that I don't like the char anymore.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

In this vein, anyone else got any character issues they wanna talk about? Most of this thread is about meta stuff - motivating yourself to write, being in writing contests, that sort of anything.

Well, I have this char in a RP that I've been in and I'd like to stay there. My problem is that I don't like the char anymore.

Say that everything the character has done up to this point was a ruse to establish an undercover identity. Reveal the character's "true" personality and intentions, and continue on with what is essentially a new character.

[Vancon]

Well, I have this char in a RP that I've been in and I'd like to stay there. My problem is that I don't like the char anymore.

Say that everything the character has done up to this point was a ruse to establish an undercover identity. Reveal the character's "true" personality and intentions, and continue on with what is essentially a new character.

If the setting will allow something like that, of course.

You know, I hadn't thought of that. It's perfect for my char's future.

[Conserative Morality]

Well, I have this char in a RP that I've been in and I'd like to stay there. My problem is that I don't like the char anymore.

Disliking a character is when you work best with them.

[Vancon]

Well, I have this char in a RP that I've been in and I'd like to stay there. My problem is that I don't like the char anymore.

Disliking a character is when you work best with them.

What do you mean?

[Conserative Morality]

What do you mean?

Disliking a character is freeing, because you can see them how they are. If they're a shallow asshole, for example, they've probably always been a shallow asshole - but now you see it, and that makes for so many possibilities.

[The Rich Port]

What do you mean?

Disliking a character is freeing, because you can see them how they are. If they're a shallow asshole, for example, they've probably always been a shallow asshole - but now you see it, and that makes for so many possibilities.

If only audiences could see what your character is sometimes...

I wonder if Stephanie Mayer hates Bella... Nah.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

What do you mean?

Disliking a character is freeing, because you can see them how they are. If they're a shallow asshole, for example, they've probably always been a shallow asshole - but now you see it, and that makes for so many possibilities.

It depends what you mean by "dislike". If "I don't like this character anymore" means "I've grown bored of this character, and no longer enjoy writing about them," which is how I interpreted Vancon's statement, then that's a much bigger problem than just thinking that the character is not a likeable person (which, as you point out, isn't necessarily a problem at all).

[Nerotysia]

So now that I'm actually getting serious about writing a novella (expanding on a storyline I've been turning about in my head for years), I suppose it's also time I started contributing actual writing to this thread.

I posted screenshots of some of this earlier, but never the whole thing. This is the introduction/prologue to the novella as of now. It doesn't directly tie into the story, but thematically it sets the stage for what the rest of it will try to say.

The first thing a man knows upon birth is darkness. He hears, he smells, he feels, but he does not see. He finds, quickly, that he is safe -- he comes to love the sound of his mother's voice, the feel of his father's arms, long before he sees them at all. It is in this initial darkness that his brain takes its first step into true existence. Because of this, he learns to love the darkness. He sees it as offering the same comfort and peace that his mother's reassuring voice offered first.

Then the time comes in every man's life when he must first open his eyes. His brain tells him that he must, his instincts tell him that he must, for he cannot survive if he cannot see. The first thing the primordial man will see is light -- and this light scares him. He is not accustomed to the light, and seeks to return yet again to the comforting darkness. But he cannot, for it is no longer just his brain that says his eyes must be open. Soon, other people, larger people, will wish to see into his eyes, to find what they may contain. Soon he will realize that he will never again return to the pure darkness that he loved so much, and must remain forever in the foreign light.

But all is not lost. He will realize very soon that although he cannot permanently leave the light, he can shy away from it every now and then. He asks his brain, he asks the people outside, and they understand. Although his eyes will remain open for the world to see, he will never forget to close them between days, as a fleeting but necessary return to the darkness that he once knew so well.

Throughout his life, he will forget the brief peace he had with the darkness, and will begin to fear it as he once did the light. He will learn to love the light, spending every waking hour in it, and soon he will hate the darkness. He still returns to it nightly, but for sustenance, not peace. He will learn that he cannot spend too long within the darkness, or the world of the light will begin to move on without him. In fear of this, he will abandon all hope of ever truly returning to the dark, as he immerses himself within the light.

He will live the rest of his life like this. He will spend the majority of his time either enjoying the light or pretending to. But then yet again he will find, near the end of his life, a chance to return to the darkness. He will recall how he loved the darkness so many years ago, and he will yearn to return to it. His peers will not understand how he could so easily abandon the light, and he will not understand why they have abandoned the dark. And he will submit himself to the darkness, one last time.

This is the lie that every man believes when he is born, and this is the lie that every man believes until he dies.

I'm not really going for subtlety in the prologue (as opposed to the actual book, which will be far more subdued), but I not trying to be too overt either. More than anything, though, I'm trying to ensure that the point the story is making isn't lost within the mechanics and writing style, which is something that I couldn't really tell on my own (considering the mechanics and writing style will always seem 'normal' to me when reading it).

That was terrible. I apologize, but very terrible. To be fair, this is a very small piece of the novel, so maybe I'm too far out of context to properly understand it, but it is a prologue, so really it should work out of context.

Give me a character. Give me plot. Give me anything. Anything but a monologue about darkness or whatever. Honestly, the writing is neat and clean, the style works, and the idea is interesting enough, but this is the worst way possible to open a novel. Open your novel with a character doing something. Preferably your main character doing something that establishes his character and/or moves the plot. Otherwise cut it. You could aim to make your first word be a verb, that would help give it some life. And always open with a character doing something.

I think the monologue on its own could work, or maybe you could insert it later in the novel when we're already invested in the story, but this is the worst opening ever. You really need to grab the reader's attention with things that happen. Instead of this. For me, this prologue does absolutely nothing but introduce the theme in a very direct way, and that means it is a waste of space. It honestly feels like a poem that has been stretched into several paragraphs.

Remember the core of storytelling - the characters. Introduce them. Let them rub their juices all over my face so I can be immersed. Cut everything else.

I do think you're a good writer, and I would be interested in reading your novel, but please kill this thing.

[Luminesa]

What do you mean?

Disliking a character is freeing, because you can see them how they are. If they're a shallow asshole, for example, they've probably always been a shallow asshole - but now you see it, and that makes for so many possibilities.

Indeed. I made a rather sick villain for one of my stories, and I think she's the only human character I truly dislike, in my story.
But for some reason I love writing about her. Because I get to make her as sick as possible, and it makes it incredibly fun when a good
guy turns the tables on her.

[Claanyad]

Does anyone have any tips for writing the beginning to a novel? I am stuck on the prologue, and have been for months. I kinda want it to be mysterious, but revealing at the same time.

[Luminesa]

Does anyone have any tips for writing the beginning to a novel? I am stuck on the prologue, and have been for months. I kinda want it to be mysterious, but revealing at the same time.

1.) What's your story about?

2.) Could you send me the prologue on here so I could look at it, possibly?

[Claanyad]

Does anyone have any tips for writing the beginning to a novel? I am stuck on the prologue, and have been for months. I kinda want it to be mysterious, but revealing at the same time.

1.) What's your story about?

2.) Could you send me the prologue on here so I could look at it, possibly?

TG or post?
Anyway, I'll give a brief synopsis of the plot so far.
So, basically, the King is dead from some deadly disease which had been plaguing his life for the past few years. A group of Northerners infiltrate the heir's palace and kills him, leaving no other heir but his (I think - may be wrong) Cousin Once-Removed. While he is being found, a Northern King invades the now leaderless Kingdom and claims it for himself. This begins a long civil war between the Northerners (who mainly back the invader) and the Southerners (who are backing the only heir.) Mixed up in all this is a bastard son of the old King (main character ahoy) who doesn't yet know that he's the son. Under Southern succession laws, he should be able to inherit, but the old King kept his existence a secret for many years.
Futher mixing up the plot is a cold war happening really far north (where it's actually warmer, so no "Winter is Coming" jokes here) between the coalitions of two kings - both slightly morally ambiguous. One side wishes to retain their independence, while the other wishes to reform an empire which had stood for around 3,000 years beforehand.
That's the main gist of the major plotlines. I'll send you what I have of the prologue by whatever medium you want.

[Luminesa]

1.) What's your story about?

2.) Could you send me the prologue on here so I could look at it, possibly?

TG or post?
Anyway, I'll give a brief synopsis of the plot so far.
So, basically, the King is dead from some deadly disease which had been plaguing his life for the past few years. A group of Northerners infiltrate the heir's palace and kills him, leaving no other heir but his (I think - may be wrong) Cousin Once-Removed. While he is being found, a Northern King invades the now leaderless Kingdom and claims it for himself. This begins a long civil war between the Northerners (who mainly back the invader) and the Southerners (who are backing the only heir.) Mixed up in all this is a bastard son of the old King (main character ahoy) who doesn't yet know that he's the son. Under Southern succession laws, he should be able to inherit, but the old King kept his existence a secret for many years.
Futher mixing up the plot is a cold war happening really far north (where it's actually warmer, so no "Winter is Coming" jokes here) between the coalitions of two kings - both slightly morally ambiguous. One side wishes to retain their independence, while the other wishes to reform an empire which had stood for around 3,000 years beforehand.
That's the main gist of the major plotlines. I'll send you what I have of the prologue by whatever medium you want.

Post. My TG box is kinda limited, right now.

This sounds interesting. I probably won't read it tonight, but I'll be happy to look at it, when I get time, tomorrow.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Does anyone have any tips for writing the beginning to a novel? I am stuck on the prologue, and have been for months. I kinda want it to be mysterious, but revealing at the same time.

Do you have a really good reason to have a prologue or are you just doing it cos "that's how it's done"? Sometimes prologues are a good idea, but when in doubt, you shouldn't bother.

[Luminesa]

Disliking a character is freeing, because you can see them how they are. If they're a shallow asshole, for example, they've probably always been a shallow asshole - but now you see it, and that makes for so many possibilities.

If only audiences could see what your character is sometimes...

I wonder if Stephanie Mayer hates Bella... Nah.

I hate Bella. Do I count? I mean, not only is she a poorly-written character with no personality whatsoever, but if I had a
vampire stalking me, I would get an exorcist ASAP! Do not like vampires.

Also...why is it that both she and Ana ("Fity Shades of Grey") have to both be British Lit/English majors? Because it makes me
feel bad about being an English major...and then when Bella apparently compared herself to Cathy Earnshaw in "Wuthering
Heights", I'm like, "Except Cathy could kick your butt."

Pardon my ranting, I just felt like getting it out.

[Nazi Flower Power]

1.) What's your story about?

2.) Could you send me the prologue on here so I could look at it, possibly?

TG or post?
Anyway, I'll give a brief synopsis of the plot so far.
So, basically, the King is dead from some deadly disease which had been plaguing his life for the past few years. A group of Northerners infiltrate the heir's palace and kills him, leaving no other heir but his (I think - may be wrong) Cousin Once-Removed. While he is being found, a Northern King invades the now leaderless Kingdom and claims it for himself. This begins a long civil war between the Northerners (who mainly back the invader) and the Southerners (who are backing the only heir.) Mixed up in all this is a bastard son of the old King (main character ahoy) who doesn't yet know that he's the son. Under Southern succession laws, he should be able to inherit, but the old King kept his existence a secret for many years.
Futher mixing up the plot is a cold war happening really far north (where it's actually warmer, so no "Winter is Coming" jokes here) between the coalitions of two kings - both slightly morally ambiguous. One side wishes to retain their independence, while the other wishes to reform an empire which had stood for around 3,000 years beforehand.
That's the main gist of the major plotlines. I'll send you what I have of the prologue by whatever medium you want.

Is the North a foreign country or a region of the kingdom where the king died? I don't get how they are both "invaders" and one side of a "civil war."

[Claanyad]

Do you have a really good reason to have a prologue or are you just doing it cos "that's how it's done"? Sometimes prologues are a good idea, but when in doubt, you shouldn't bother.

Well, it's kind of a first chapter by any other name. It will have a bunch of non-major characters (maybe one-or-two major ones, so as not to seem redundant) but will mainly involve the plot to kill the Heir apparent to the Kingdom. The Northerners have already implanted themselves heavily into the court of this heir, mainly through bribery and other such means, and all it requires is to sneak in under cover of darkness and kill him, sneak off in the night and send the King's guards on a wild goose chase, and return the news to the Northern King.
All this is happening on an ancestral island of the ruling dynasty, which heirs apparent for many generations have run prior to their time as Kings. I'm planning to have that island be the base of an important sub-plot throughout the novel.

Is the North a foreign country or a region of the kingdom where the king died? I don't get how they are both "invaders" and one side of a "civil war."

They are foreign, but the King of the Northerners had some messed up claim, so has actually installed himself as King of the major Kingdom by the time the rest of the Southerners could mount a decent opposition.

Post. My TG box is kinda limited, right now.

This sounds interesting. I probably won't read it tonight, but I'll be happy to look at it, when I get time, tomorrow.

Alright. I'll post what I have.
The reason it's so different from my original plan was that I just couldn't get the plan to work on its own. I have re-written this over ten times. I may re-write again, especially if I have an idea of how to incorporate my original ideas into a decently paced first chapter or prologue.
Be advised - it's terrible. I just have the block, man!

Marlowe's Rock:
Were it not for the light that he was carrying, not a single guard would have noticed the sight of that hooded man in the night. Dressed entirely in a black garment, by now salt-encrusted and damp from the sea-water and the rain, the man approached the guardhouse quickly, taking long strides to keep out of the rain. Once he reached the portcullis, he knocked on the wooden window shutters. A face peered out of a hole in the side.
"Who is it?"
The guard inside had a gruff voice, stern, with the salt of the island deep in its heavy accent. The man produced a letter, sealed with red wax, not saying a word as he did so. The shutters were opened by the man inside, who took off the seal, and began to read. As he read, his face grew ever more shocked.
"Long live the King…" he said, as he passed the message back, arm shaking. He shouted towards other people in the room, "Open the portcullis!"
The iron gate slowly raised, and once it had been raised to head-height, the man stepped through. The gate behind slammed shut, and the one in front was raised as slowly as the last, creaking with visible signs of age. It was old, with rust-marks showing on every surface. As the man made his way into the courtyard, the rain continued to pour, and the thunder continued to roll. Most of the torches had been put out, either by the guards themselves or by the rain.

Note: And that's it. Short, eh?

[Nazi Flower Power]

Alright. I'll post what I have.
The reason it's so different from my original plan was that I just couldn't get the plan to work on its own. I have re-written this over ten times. I may re-write again, especially if I have an idea of how to incorporate my original ideas into a decently paced first chapter or prologue.
Be advised - it's terrible. I just have the block, man!

Marlowe's Rock:
Were it not for the light that he was carrying, not a single guard would have noticed the sight of that hooded man in the night. Dressed entirely in a black garment, by now salt-encrusted and damp from the sea-water and the rain, the man approached the guardhouse quickly, taking long strides to keep out of the rain. Once he reached the portcullis, he knocked on the wooden window shutters. A face peered out of a hole in the side.
"Who is it?"
The guard inside had a gruff voice, stern, with the salt of the island deep in its heavy accent. The man produced a letter, sealed with red wax, not saying a word as he did so. The shutters were opened by the man inside, who took off the seal, and began to read. As he read, his face grew ever more shocked.
"Long live the King…" he said, as he passed the message back, arm shaking. He shouted towards other people in the room, "Open the portcullis!"
The iron gate slowly raised, and once it had been raised to head-height, the man stepped through. The gate behind slammed shut, and the one in front was raised as slowly as the last, creaking with visible signs of age. It was old, with rust-marks showing on every surface. As the man made his way into the courtyard, the rain continued to pour, and the thunder continued to roll. Most of the torches had been put out, either by the guards themselves or by the rain.

Note: And that's it. Short, eh?

It looks like you're trying too hard to make it fancy. I crossed out some words that you could take out without losing any of the meaning. There are other places where you should try to simplify the language, but it needs more work than just deleting unneeded words.

Apart from that, you need to keep going and write what happens next because this by itself isn't enough for either a prologue or a first chapter.

[Claanyad]

Alright. I'll post what I have.
The reason it's so different from my original plan was that I just couldn't get the plan to work on its own. I have re-written this over ten times. I may re-write again, especially if I have an idea of how to incorporate my original ideas into a decently paced first chapter or prologue.
Be advised - it's terrible. I just have the block, man!

Marlowe's Rock:
Were it not for the light that he was carrying, not a single guard would have noticed the sight of that hooded man in the night. Dressed entirely in a black garment, by now salt-encrusted and damp from the sea-water and the rain, the man approached the guardhouse quickly, taking long strides to keep out of the rain. Once he reached the portcullis, he knocked on the wooden window shutters. A face peered out of a hole in the side.
"Who is it?"
The guard inside had a gruff voice, stern, with the salt of the island deep in its heavy accent. The man produced a letter, sealed with red wax, not saying a word as he did so. The shutters were opened by the man inside, who took off the seal, and began to read. As he read, his face grew ever more shocked.
"Long live the King…" he said, as he passed the message back, arm shaking. He shouted towards other people in the room, "Open the portcullis!"
The iron gate slowly raised, and once it had been raised to head-height, the man stepped through. The gate behind slammed shut, and the one in front was raised as slowly as the last, creaking with visible signs of age. It was old, with rust-marks showing on every surface. As the man made his way into the courtyard, the rain continued to pour, and the thunder continued to roll. Most of the torches had been put out, either by the guards themselves or by the rain.

Note: And that's it. Short, eh?

It looks like you're trying too hard to make it fancy. I crossed out some words that you could take out without losing any of the meaning. There are other places where you should try to simplify the language, but it needs more work than just deleting unneeded words.

I'll agree, I'm guilty of that.

Apart from that, you need to keep going and write what happens next because this by itself isn't enough for either a prologue or a first chapter.

Of course. I would't stop there if I could help it. I'm just stuck on what to write next.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It looks like you're trying too hard to make it fancy. I crossed out some words that you could take out without losing any of the meaning. There are other places where you should try to simplify the language, but it needs more work than just deleting unneeded words.

I'll agree, I'm guilty of that.

Apart from that, you need to keep going and write what happens next because this by itself isn't enough for either a prologue or a first chapter.

Of course. I would't stop there if I could help it. I'm just stuck on what to write next.

Presumably, he should go inside. I'm guessing it's dark inside, at least in some parts of the building, so he needs to feel his way around and move carefully. He might want to avoid being seen or heard since not everyone will be Northern spies.

[Urulandia]

Hi everyone. I've only recently got back into reading and trying to write since life got in my way for the last few years. I used to write obsessibly as a teenager and want to get back into it now, hopefully write 50,000 words for the next NaNoWriMo. The thing is I have lost all ability to write and would love some advice on getting back into it.

I'm trying to write a novel for Camp NaNoWriMo which starts in July. I've done some Worldbuilding and written a prologue, tell me what you think. I would love to get different criticisms on it as I don't think it's up to the standard I would like.

Gareth could hear the howls and voices advancing on him with each heartbeat. His feet throbbed. His breaths short and demoralised. The jungle was slicing away at him, razor leaves and thorns lacerating his face and feet. The men yelling at him in indecipherable tongues, only adding to the cacophony of madding sounds of the jungle. Each yell grew louder and louder. The weight of their feet, heavier and heavier. He knew they were close now. One of their beasts was to his side, maybe only a hundred or so feet away. Gareth just wished for them to end it, his body had given up after the first mile. The beast was in front of him now. It’s yellow eyes screamed “Death”. He looked back and saw the bright spotted flowers protruding from it’s owner's headdress. These could not be men, they had been running for miles and their breathing was still slow and precise. Gareth saw the club, he wished it was a blade. The man approached gradually knowing his prey couldn’t run. Barefoot and bare-chested he looked as if he we more beast than man. His eyes meet Gareth's, but it’s gaze was frenzied. The man eyes were wide and unyielding, unlike his movements. He raised his club and darkness came.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

Hi everyone. I've only recently got back into reading and trying to write since life got in my way for the last few years. I used to write obsessibly as a teenager and want to get back into it now, hopefully write 50,000 words for the next NaNoWriMo. The thing is I have lost all ability to write and would love some advice on getting back into it.

I'm trying to write a novel for Camp NaNoWriMo which starts in July. I've done some Worldbuilding and written a prologue, tell me what you think. I would love to get different criticisms on it as I don't think it's up to the standard I would like.

Gareth could hear the howls and voices advancing on him with each heartbeat. His feet throbbed. His breaths short and demoralised. The jungle was slicing away at him, razor leaves and thorns lacerating his face and feet. The men yelling at him in indecipherable tongues, only adding to the cacophony of madding sounds of the jungle. Each yell grew louder and louder. The weight of their feet, heavier and heavier. He knew they were close now. One of their beasts was to his side, maybe only a hundred or so feet away. Gareth just wished for them to end it, his body had given up after the first mile. The beast was in front of him now. It’s yellow eyes screamed “Death”. He looked back and saw the bright spotted flowers protruding from it’s owner's headdress. These could not be men, they had been running for miles and their breathing was still slow and precise. Gareth saw the club, he wished it was a blade. The man approached gradually knowing his prey couldn’t run. Barefoot and bare-chested he looked as if he we more beast than man. His eyes meet Gareth's, but it’s gaze was frenzied. The man eyes were wide and unyielding, unlike his movements. He raised his club and darkness came.

The mood of this piece is all over the place. Your descriptions of the character's thoughts suggest a despairing "just let me die" attitude, but some other aspects of the piece have a thrilling "run for your life!" feel to them, and the two clash horribly. Pick one or the other, and tailor your word choice and imagery to match.

Also, there are several mechanical errors, but I'm too lazy to go over those.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Hi everyone. I've only recently got back into reading and trying to write since life got in my way for the last few years. I used to write obsessibly as a teenager and want to get back into it now, hopefully write 50,000 words for the next NaNoWriMo. The thing is I have lost all ability to write and would love some advice on getting back into it.

I'm trying to write a novel for Camp NaNoWriMo which starts in July. I've done some Worldbuilding and written a prologue, tell me what you think. I would love to get different criticisms on it as I don't think it's up to the standard I would like.

Yeah, it looks like you still need to shake the proverbial rust off.

Gareth could hear the howls and voices advancing on him with each heartbeat. His feet throbbed. His breaths short and demoralised. <This is not a sentence. The jungle was slicing away at him, razor leaves and thorns lacerating his face and feet. The men yelling at him in indecipherable tongues, only adding to the cacophony of madding sounds of the jungle. Each yell grew louder and louder. The weight of their feet, heavier and heavier. <He's not lifting their feet, so why does he care if they're heavy? When I think about, I can figure out what you meant, but you'd be better off saying it another way. Maybe something about "their footsteps" instead of "their feet." It's also not a sentence. He knew they were close now. One of their beasts was to his side, maybe only a hundred or so feet away. Gareth just wished for them to end it, his body had given up after the first mile.<Run-on. The beast was in front of him now. It’s yellow eyes screamed “Death." He looked back and saw the bright spotted flowers protruding from it’s owner's headdress. These could not be men, they had been running for miles and their breathing was still slow and precise.<Another run-on. Gareth saw the club, he wished it was a blade. <Run-on here too. The man approached gradually [,]knowing his prey couldn’t run. Barefoot and bare-chested[,] he looked as if he we more beast than man. His eyes meet met Gareth's, but it’s his gaze was frenzied. The man['s] eyes were wide and unyielding, unlike his movements. He raised his club and darkness came.

I've added some edits in pink to point out where you have grammatical problems or the meaning is just really unclear.

Aside from that, there are a few other places that feel clunky, but not enough to be confusing. And I am not sure this belongs in a prologue. I suppose it depends on what the rest of the story is and how this ties into it.

[Claanyad]

I'll agree, I'm guilty of that.


Of course. I would't stop there if I could help it. I'm just stuck on what to write next.

Presumably, he should go inside. I'm guessing it's dark inside, at least in some parts of the building, so he needs to feel his way around and move carefully. He might want to avoid being seen or heard since not everyone will be Northern spies.

That's part of the problem, though. I don't really want to write him as a POV character, and I'm kind of trying to alienate him - at least, at the beginning.