Writing Discussion II

[Lady Scylla]

I remember reading about an author that wrote ideas like that on notecards, and then moved them around to develop a plot.

That sounds odd.

Everyone has their own ways I guess. I want to say it was Rowling, but I'm not sure about that.

[Forsher]

That sounds odd.

Everyone has their own ways I guess. I want to say it was Rowling, but I'm not sure about that.

I think people are excessively good at identifying patterns. Hence, in theory, a series of insulated scenes could be arranged in several orders quite naturally.

As a test, try creating a plot/narrative framework out of, e.g. an alphabetic list of miscellaneous paintings, songs, buildings, whatever. I believe this is entirely doable and the only issue is in executing the resultant vision.

[Corvus Metallum]

In an effort to improve my writing, I'm looking around at different grammar and style texts. I'm torn between the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, as these seem to be the two most prominent ones for American English. Do y'all have any preference for one over the other, or would you recommend something else?

[USS Monitor]

In an effort to improve my writing, I'm looking around at different grammar and style texts. I'm torn between the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, as these seem to be the two most prominent ones for American English. Do y'all have any preference for one over the other, or would you recommend something else?

For fiction writing, which is what most people in this thread are interested in, either of those is fine.

My dad's old publisher liked Chicago Manual of Style. I don't, but from a pragmatic standpoint, the publisher's opinion is probably more useful than mine.

[Nordengrund]

It's normal for some parts of the story to come faster than others.

I remember reading about an author that wrote ideas like that on notecards, and then moved them around to develop a plot.

I sorta do that. I don't really outline as I tend to make it up as I go along, but I do have a few scenes in mind and write those downs, I just have no idea what will occur before or after those scenes.

I find outlining helps, but I also find it makes me lose motivation for actually writing the story as I see the outline as technically telling the story and all I'm doing is adding the details in the form of a draft. I guess having a full outline takes the excitement from me as I like some mystery when it comes to "what happens next?" I want to enjoy the ride as much as the reader.

I use notecards as brief character profiles and scene synopses (synopsi?), or for anything I may wish to add to the story later, such as a detail of worldbuilding, a cool idea for a new character, or as a reminder to change a scene or an outcome.

The only planning I really do is having a few main characters, a setting, and some scenes, and then I tweak and add and remove characters as necessary.

[Lady Scylla]

In an effort to improve my writing, I'm looking around at different grammar and style texts. I'm torn between the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, as these seem to be the two most prominent ones for American English. Do y'all have any preference for one over the other, or would you recommend something else?

I would suggest "On Writing Well" by Zinsser. You can get it here. It focuses on non-fiction writing, but I think it's very helpful in fictional writing as well.

[Zottistan]

Thissun got a good response from the people I showed it to so I'm gonna pop it in here and see what you guys think.

The Watchman steps out,
Onto the moonlit tower.

Through warm sandstone tunnels,
Veins of the palace behind him,
The brown-skinned servant girl brings
Jugs of blood-red wine
To ugly men in beautiful clothes.
Perhaps a stray hand that thinks itself fatherly
Will stray where it shouldn't,
And her throat will fill with silent protests,
Stifled by the sneering, sticky warmth
Of the dense air and the sweaty palms
And agitated words that she understands too well
Although she does not know the language.

The Watchman sighs.

Here he is free.
Here the air is dry and crisp,
And free of distractions.
He breathes deeply,
And his lungs fill with silence,
His eyes with the silver moonlight
That turns the sands to snow.
Here he is free,
And here he is himself.

His lighter cuts the night,
A spark of light in the dark,
Of being in nothing,
And he lights a cigarette.

His wife gave him that lighter,
That perfect glowing metaphor,
Marking his existence in the dark and
Marked with his own name.
His wife, with the gapped buck teeth,
Who snored like rolling thunder.
His wife, with a small pot-belly
And cellulite on her ass
And two chins when she looked too far down.
His wife, who was so distant from
The fat men in the tight suits with the pitstains
In the palace.

The Watchman takes a pull,
And the silence breaks with the gentle hiss of hooves on sand.

A rider in black,
A smudge of ink on the white sand canvas,
Sits atop a pale horse and waves.
The Watchman waves back,
Then the bullet cuts cleanly through his forehead
And his skull explodes behind him into bloody shards.

A world ends in a moment,
With no warning,
Leaving nothing but a pot-bellied widow and a cigarette in the sand.

[Conserative Morality]

I remember reading about an author that wrote ideas like that on notecards, and then moved them around to develop a plot.

That sounds odd.

I move around entire scenes like that.

[USS Monitor]

That sounds odd.

I move around entire scenes like that.

Moving around whole scenes is not as weird.

[Conserative Morality]

I move around entire scenes like that.

Moving around whole scenes is not as weird.

I don't see the difference in principle, but maybe that's just me.

[USS Monitor]

Moving around whole scenes is not as weird.

I don't see the difference in principle, but maybe that's just me.

Scenes are written with the intention of tying into the same story, and the sentences within the scene are sequential (more or less -- you might move on here or there, but they're mostly written to fill a specific place in the scene). Just because you take something out of chapter 2 and turn it into a flashback in chapter 12 doesn't mean it was written randomly with no conception of how it was going to relate to the rest of the story. Regardless whether it goes in chapter 2 or chapter 12, it's still tailored to fit into the story, not just a random thought you had.

Unless you just write random scenes....

[Ameriganastan]

I finally submitted a wholly original story! Not based off a show or someone else's idea or anything! WOO!

[Shaggai]

I don't see the difference in principle, but maybe that's just me.

Scenes are written with the intention of tying into the same story, and the sentences within the scene are sequential (more or less -- you might move on here or there, but they're mostly written to fill a specific place in the scene). Just because you take something out of chapter 2 and turn it into a flashback in chapter 12 doesn't mean it was written randomly with no conception of how it was going to relate to the rest of the story. Regardless whether it goes in chapter 2 or chapter 12, it's still tailored to fit into the story, not just a random thought you had.

Unless you just write random scenes....

I think Conserative Morality meant moving scenes around within the plot, rather than simply within the book.

[Adytus]

I finally submitted a wholly original story! Not based off a show or someone else's idea or anything! WOO!

Submitted it where?

[USS Monitor]

Scenes are written with the intention of tying into the same story, and the sentences within the scene are sequential (more or less -- you might move on here or there, but they're mostly written to fill a specific place in the scene). Just because you take something out of chapter 2 and turn it into a flashback in chapter 12 doesn't mean it was written randomly with no conception of how it was going to relate to the rest of the story. Regardless whether it goes in chapter 2 or chapter 12, it's still tailored to fit into the story, not just a random thought you had.

Unless you just write random scenes....

I think Conserative Morality meant moving scenes around within the plot, rather than simply within the book.

Still not as weird as taking random out-of-context thoughts and trying to piece them together into a story.

[Ameriganastan]

I finally submitted a wholly original story! Not based off a show or someone else's idea or anything! WOO!

Submitted it where?

Tumblr and DA. That's where I submit all my stuff.

[Nordengrund]

Anyone here I can discuss light novels with? I'm thinking about attempting to write one, but I'm wondering if there is that whole "if you aren't Japanese, you can't get published or create real manga" thing attached to the medium?

They seem like a good middle ground for what I'm after. Novels are too long and I don't think I have the commitment for novel writing, especially for a series. I find short stories too constricting, and light novels are sometimes compared to novellas in length. I figure novella would be a good step up from a short story but probably not be as daunting as a novel.

I also want to make manga, but I'm not Japanese, and all that drawing seems exhausting, and some manga span hundreds of chapters and volumes. I really like the manga artstyle, and want to use it to tell stories.

Also, is there an average word count for light novels? What about the number of chapters per book?

[Lady Scylla]

Anyone here I can discuss light novels with? I'm thinking about attempting to write one, but I'm wondering if there is that whole "if you aren't Japanese, you can't get published or create real manga" thing attached to the medium?

They seem like a good middle ground for what I'm after. Novels are too long and I don't think I have the commitment for novel writing, especially for a series. I find short stories too constricting, and light novels are sometimes compared to novellas in length. I figure novella would be a good step up from a short story but probably not be as daunting as a novel.

I also want to make manga, but I'm not Japanese, and all that drawing seems exhausting, and some manga span hundreds of chapters and volumes. I really like the manga artstyle, and want to use it to tell stories.

Also, is there an average word count for light novels? What about the number of chapters per book?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_count#In_fiction

Do what you want to do.

[The Federation of Kendor]

Am I allowed to post a story here, so others can review my writing?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Am I allowed to post a story here, so others can review my writing?

Sure, but put it in a spoiler so it's easy to scroll past.

[Ameriganastan]

This Ao3 site kinda rules. Way quicker feedback. And doesn't eat my likes like Tumblr is so oft to do.

[Would that these little stones]

In an effort to improve my writing, I'm looking around at different grammar and style texts. I'm torn between the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, as these seem to be the two most prominent ones for American English. Do y'all have any preference for one over the other, or would you recommend something else?

Get yourself a copy of the most recent edition of Strunk and White's Elements of Style. It'll change your life.

And hi, everyone. It's me, the old Improviser editor. Just finished my creative writing program — bittersweet — and I'm thinking about publishing a chapbook after I send out all the poems in it. Any interesting work you guys have read recently?

[Wallenburg]

Get yourself a copy of the most recent edition of Strunk and White's Elements of Style. It'll change your life.

This exactly. It's a short, easy read, with tons of great guidelines.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

In an effort to improve my writing, I'm looking around at different grammar and style texts. I'm torn between the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, as these seem to be the two most prominent ones for American English. Do y'all have any preference for one over the other, or would you recommend something else?

Depends on what you want to do.

They're style books, and so they won't teach you the basics, but how to write in a specific way for a specific purpose.

Chicago is the standard for academic research and non-fiction books in the humanities because of how well it plays with non-fiction material and sources, as well as the lack of breaks in the narrative, using either footnotes or endnotes as appropriate.

AP is for shorter, more concise documents.

Here's a blog describing the differences: http://apvschicago.com/

I'd back the above Strunk and White's Elements of Style as a read, only to understand what the rules are and what is proper and what isn't. I do not follow Strunk and White's, but I know of people who do. In the terms of AP vs. Chicago tho I'd say it all depends on what you feel more comfortable doing. I personally prefer Chicago as a good style to use in research, but then that's me.

[Trotskylvania]

The best way to improve your writing is to write more. Style guides can help point the way, but the key is write something. One of the beat ways to figure out what works is to wait a day and just reread what you wrote. If something doesn't work grammatically or isn't clear it will stick out more to you. If you can recognize your own mistakes you'll be less apt to repeat them