Writing Discussion II

[The first Galactic Republic]

What's your take on multiple unreliable narrators and a resulting story that's never an objective telling but always through viewed through the lens of whichever character's PoV it's being shown from? Too confusing to make it work, or it's fine to leave 'what really happened' ambiguous and let the reader decide who's telling the truth and to what extent?

I love stories like that. Nothing wrong with it if you can pull it off.

[Nerotysia]

What's your take on multiple unreliable narrators and a resulting story that's never an objective telling but always through viewed through the lens of whichever character's PoV it's being shown from? Too confusing to make it work, or it's fine to leave 'what really happened' ambiguous and let the reader decide who's telling the truth and to what extent?

Like most ideas, it could work if done right. Ambiguity and confusion isn't necessarily a bad thing. Unless done poorly.

For some really valuable input, I'd recommend writing part of such a story and showing that sample to people, to see if they thought you pulled it off.

[The New World Oceania]

Need Halloween story contest. Who's up for it?

[Thanatttynia]

Need Halloween story contest. Who's up for it?

If one was set up, I would probably enter too, but they're difficult to organise, as demonstrated by the last few.

[USS Monitor]

Need Halloween story contest. Who's up for it?

If one was set up, I would probably enter too, but they're difficult to organise, as demonstrated by the last few.

I'm willing to give it a try. I have a few ideas for tweaks to try to avoid the problems that we've had the last few contests:

1. Shorter word count and deadline -- e.g. maybe 3000 words and Halloween deadline.

2. I want to go back to using a fixed scoring rubric. I respect RDL and I understand his preference for free-form judging, but some people might have found it more intimidating or confusing. I don't KNOW if this contributed to the trouble with judging, but I think it might have.

3. No pre-determined number of judges. Instead we recruit as many as possible and we have a judging deadline. If some of the judges get their scoring done by the deadline and others don't, we can just declare a winner based on the ones who got their scores in.

Thoughts?

[The first Galactic Republic]

If one was set up, I would probably enter too, but they're difficult to organise, as demonstrated by the last few.

I'm willing to give it a try. I have a few ideas for tweaks to try to avoid the problems that we've had the last few contests:

1. Shorter word count and deadline -- e.g. maybe 3000 words and Halloween deadline.

2. I want to go back to using a fixed scoring rubric. I respect RDL and I understand his preference for free-form judging, but some people might have found it more intimidating or confusing. I don't KNOW if this contributed to the trouble with judging, but I think it might have.

3. No pre-determined number of judges. Instead we recruit as many as possible and we have a judging deadline. If some of the judges get their scoring done by the deadline and others don't, we can just declare a winner based on the ones who got their scores in.

Thoughts?

Do the stories have to be Halloween themed? That would limit submissions, and they'll already be pretty limited.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

2. I want to go back to using a fixed scoring rubric. I respect RDL and I understand his preference for free-form judging, but some people might have found it more intimidating or confusing. I don't KNOW if this contributed to the trouble with judging, but I think it might have.

Fair enough. I definitely won't have time to judge this one anyways.

Now that you mention it, I hope my rubric preference wasn't the problem...

[USS Monitor]

2. I want to go back to using a fixed scoring rubric. I respect RDL and I understand his preference for free-form judging, but some people might have found it more intimidating or confusing. I don't KNOW if this contributed to the trouble with judging, but I think it might have.

Fair enough. I definitely won't have time to judge this one anyways.

Now that you mention it, I hope my rubric preference wasn't the problem...

I don't know if it was the problem or not. Even if it was part of the problem, you wouldn't have known that. There are other things like old regulars falling into inactivity and new players coming in that could change the dynamics too.

Do the stories have to be Halloween themed? That would limit submissions, and they'll already be pretty limited.

Not specifically Halloween-related, but horror genre.

[Forsher]

I'm willing to give it a try. I have a few ideas for tweaks to try to avoid the problems that we've had the last few contests:

1. Shorter word count and deadline -- e.g. maybe 3000 words and Halloween deadline.

2. I want to go back to using a fixed scoring rubric. I respect RDL and I understand his preference for free-form judging, but some people might have found it more intimidating or confusing. I don't KNOW if this contributed to the trouble with judging, but I think it might have.

3. No pre-determined number of judges. Instead we recruit as many as possible and we have a judging deadline. If some of the judges get their scoring done by the deadline and others don't, we can just declare a winner based on the ones who got their scores in.

Thoughts?

Do the stories have to be Halloween themed? That would limit submissions, and they'll already be pretty limited.

When we did a Halloween theme once before, this didn't mean it had to be about Halloween, just Halloween related horror. For example, my story involved wizards (one) and demons (technically, also One). Although, to be fair, it did do badly on the theme score (5/10, 2/10, 5/10).

I like this greed is good approach to judge accumulation.

Now that you mention it, I hope my rubric preference wasn't the problem...

I found it a bit harder to work with, but this may also have been because I wasn't initially intending to judge and did my judging in two lots several months apart.

Not specifically Halloween-related, but horror genre.

I presume we'd also use the adjusted theme version of the rubric? Although, I do have two essays due and two exams in the fortnight surrounding the 31st so I really shouldn't enter.

[USS Monitor]

Do the stories have to be Halloween themed? That would limit submissions, and they'll already be pretty limited.

When we did a Halloween theme once before, this didn't mean it had to be about Halloween, just Halloween related horror. For example, my story involved wizards (one) and demons (technically, also One). Although, to be fair, it did do badly on the theme score (5/10, 2/10, 5/10).

I like this greed is good approach to judge accumulation.

Now that you mention it, I hope my rubric preference wasn't the problem...

I found it a bit harder to work with, but this may also have been because I wasn't initially intending to judge and did my judging in two lots several months apart.

Not specifically Halloween-related, but horror genre.

I presume we'd also use the adjusted theme version of the rubric?

Yes.

Although, I do have two essays due and two exams in the fortnight surrounding the 31st so I really shouldn't enter.

Would you be available to judge in November?

[Forsher]

Although, I do have two essays due and two exams in the fortnight surrounding the 31st so I really shouldn't enter.

Would you be available to judge in November?[/quote]

After the 11th it's all guilt free. But the exam on the 11th is the biggest I've got (70% of the final mark). So, really, it would depend on the number of entries. One a day over 5-10 November no worries...

Tentatively count me as a judge.

[USS Monitor]

Would you be available to judge in November?

After the 11th it's all guilt free. But the exam on the 11th is the biggest I've got (70% of the final mark). So, really, it would depend on the number of entries. One a day over 5-10 November no worries...

Tentatively count me as a judge.

Sounds good. I'll try to get the thread up in the next day or two.

[Nordengrund]

Anyone here thought about writing realistic fiction or a fictionalized autobiographical story?

I've considered writing a story loosely based on my life and people I know, but changing some of the details.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

Anyone here thought about writing realistic fiction or a fictionalized autobiographical story?

I've considered writing a story loosely based on my life and people I know, but changing some of the details.

I write about make-believe people because I'm not interesting enough to warrant that sort of attention.

[The New World Oceania]

Anyone here thought about writing realistic fiction or a fictionalized autobiographical story?

I've considered writing a story loosely based on my life and people I know, but changing some of the details.

I write a lot of fiction in essay-type styles. In retrospect I typically use an informal style with those stories, since that's how I write my essays, but it might be interesting to try a more formal voice, think Virginia Woolf, or — this would be interesting — John McPhee's Oranges.

Regardless of whether or not it sounds like an essay though, I think almost all the best first person fiction needs to have a strong degree of verisimilitude.

[The first Galactic Republic]

If we need to write horror stories then I want to try to be creative. Create a horror that's not obvious but is in fact quite scary. In other words it's the opposite of Halloween horror. Halloween is very in your face horror. Things that are considered to be spooky. Ghosts, mummies, psychos, dark, whatever. I'll try to think of the opposite. Something that's not generally associated with horror, but a story that is still in the horror genre when you think about it.

I don't know. I'll do my best.

[Nordengrund]

If we need to write horror stories then I want to try to be creative. Create a horror that's not obvious but is in fact quite scary. In other words it's the opposite of Halloween horror. Halloween is very in your face horror. Things that are considered to be spooky. Ghosts, mummies, psychos, dark, whatever. I'll try to think of the opposite. Something that's not generally associated with horror, but a story that is still in the horror genre when you think about it.

I don't know. I'll do my best.

I've considered it. I don't like horror (I'm a big chicken), but someone told me I could right a good horror story.

I thought about writing a scary story that takes place in broad daylight just to put a spin on the dark environment cliche.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

If we need to write horror stories then I want to try to be creative. Create a horror that's not obvious but is in fact quite scary. In other words it's the opposite of Halloween horror. Halloween is very in your face horror. Things that are considered to be spooky. Ghosts, mummies, psychos, dark, whatever. I'll try to think of the opposite. Something that's not generally associated with horror, but a story that is still in the horror genre when you think about it.

I don't know. I'll do my best.

I've considered it. I don't like horror (I'm a big chicken), but someone told me I could right a good horror story.

I thought about writing a scary story that takes place in broad daylight just to put a spin on the dark environment cliche.

If that's what you want to write, go ahead, but here's something to think about: Horror, perhaps more than any other genre, is very heavily dependent on atmosphere. A horror story isn't just characterized by scary content. Instead, a good horror work should feel like horror even when nothing is happening.

With that in mind, there's a reason why darkness is so common in horror. Making the environment dark (or, more generally, reducing visibility) is a very, very powerful tool in achieving an unsettling atmosphere, and the ubiquity of dark environments in horror only serves to strengthen the connotations and mental associations that make it useful in the first place. The connection is so strong that I would hesitate to even call it a cliché - if darkness in horror is cliché, then so are guns in action movies, or space ships in science fiction.

I'm not saying that you can't write a horror story that takes place in daylight. I just wanted to point out that the connection between darkness and horror is stronger and more fundamental than the term "cliché" would suggest (at least in my opinion).

[The first Galactic Republic]

I've considered it. I don't like horror (I'm a big chicken), but someone told me I could right a good horror story.

I thought about writing a scary story that takes place in broad daylight just to put a spin on the dark environment cliche.

If that's what you want to write, go ahead, but here's something to think about: Horror, perhaps more than any other genre, is very heavily dependent on atmosphere. A horror story isn't just characterized by scary content. Instead, a good horror work should feel like horror even when nothing is happening.

With that in mind, there's a reason why darkness is so common in horror. Making the environment dark (or, more generally, reducing visibility) is a very, very powerful tool in achieving an unsettling atmosphere, and the ubiquity of dark environments in horror only serves to strengthen the connotations and mental associations that make it useful in the first place. The connection is so strong that I would hesitate to even call it a cliché - if darkness in horror is cliché, then so are guns in action movies, or space ships in science fiction.

I'm not saying that you can't write a horror story that takes place in daylight. I just wanted to point out that the connection between darkness and horror is stronger and more fundamental than the term "cliché" would suggest (at least in my opinion).

I would say that guns in action movies and spaceships in sci-fi are kind of cliché though. Plenty of stories without them.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I'm not saying that you can't write a horror story that takes place in daylight. I just wanted to point out that the connection between darkness and horror is stronger and more fundamental than the term "cliché" would suggest (at least in my opinion).

Would you do it just in a daylight setting, or actually incorporate light as something scary in the same way darkness sometimes is shown in that way?

[Respubliko de Libereco]

The connection is so strong that I would hesitate to even call it a cliché - if darkness in horror is cliché, then so are guns in action movies, or space ships in science fiction.

I would say that guns in action movies and spaceships in sci-fi are kind of cliché though. Plenty of stories without them.

I'm not saying they're necessary, or that you can't write action/sci-fi without them, but it doesn't make sense to me to call them cliché. Cliché generally has negative connotations, implying that some element is overused. However, the extent to which guns and spaceships are used is completely justified in the contexts of action and sci-fi respectively, so I don't see either of those things as cliché.

I'm not saying that you can't write a horror story that takes place in daylight. I just wanted to point out that the connection between darkness and horror is stronger and more fundamental than the term "cliché" would suggest (at least in my opinion).

Would you do it just in a daylight setting, or actually incorporate light as something scary in the same way darkness sometimes is shown in that way?

I think that either could work, depending on your goals. The former is very broad, and could work well if you're wanting to focus on, say, the feeling that you're never safe no matter how "normal" the environment seems.

The latter idea would be an interesting challenge. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few potential strategies. One would be a sort of eerie bioluminescence route (think of anglerfish-style bait). Another could be a corruption of the "light at the end of the tunnel" idea. However, both of these would still have to rely heavily on a contrast between light and dark. The same goes for the idea that bright light only makes shadows show up stronger.

If you insist on not having any contrasting darkness at all, you could possibly try ideas of fire, blindingly bright light, hypnotic flashing patterns, the feeling of being watched, or long-forgotten cults worshipping the sun.

I don't know whether any of this relates to what Nordengrund had in mind, of course.

[Nordengrund]

I would say that guns in action movies and spaceships in sci-fi are kind of cliché though. Plenty of stories without them.

I'm not saying they're necessary, or that you can't write action/sci-fi without them, but it doesn't make sense to me to call them cliché. Cliché generally has negative connotations, implying that some element is overused. However, the extent to which guns and spaceships are used is completely justified in the contexts of action and sci-fi respectively, so I don't see either of those things as cliché.

Would you do it just in a daylight setting, or actually incorporate light as something scary in the same way darkness sometimes is shown in that way?

I think that either could work, depending on your goals. The former is very broad, and could work well if you're wanting to focus on, say, the feeling that you're never safe no matter how "normal" the environment seems.

The latter idea would be an interesting challenge. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few potential strategies. One would be a sort of eerie bioluminescence route (think of anglerfish-style bait). Another could be a corruption of the "light at the end of the tunnel" idea. However, both of these would still have to rely heavily on a contrast between light and dark. The same goes for the idea that bright light only makes shadows show up stronger.

If you insist on not having any contrasting darkness at all, you could possibly try ideas of fire, blindingly bright light, hypnotic flashing patterns, the feeling of being watched, or long-forgotten cults worshipping the sun.

I don't know whether any of this relates to what Nordengrund had in mind, of course.

I understand why darkness is a prevalent element in horror, I just think a daylight atmosphere would be an interesting exercise. There were times when I was home alone and felt unnerved even though it was broad daylight outside.

What's up those stairs?

On a more serious note, I have a fascination with the Aztecs, and I think their religion and culture would make good elements for a horror story.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Today I came across some of my old documents from when I first started writing, almost a year ago now. Had to apply some of this.

On the one hand, it's heartening to see that I'm improving. On the other...eww. I wrote that shit?

[Zeinbrad]

So I'm looking to take partin Nanowrimo this year. Anyone have a genre for this synopsis of my novel? I'm gonna put Sci-Fi, but I want to make sure.

Set in the year 2231, a galaxy both similar, yet different from our own. Mongrel main protagonist is Emil, a young Gaian women who is on the run from the authoritarian Ragon Empire for reasons she won't deluge. With the help of a misfit crew of free traders, Emil will journey to the Republic of Gaia, hoping that one day, she can finally be truly free.
Of course, it is not in character for the Ragon Empire to let a known fugitive escape so easily...

[Anywhere Else But Here]

So I'm looking to take place in Nanowrimo this year. Anyone have a genre for this synopsis of my novel? I'm gonna put Sci-Fi, but I want to make sure.

Set in the year 2231, a galaxy both similar, yet different from our own. Mongrel main protagonist is Emil, a young Gaian women who is on the run from the authoritarian Ragon Empire for reasons she won't deluge. With the help of a misfit crew of free traders, Emil will journey to the Republic of Gaia, hoping that one day, she can finally be truly free.
Of course, it is not in character for the Ragon Empire to let a known fugitive escape so easily...

Sci-fi sounds right (also, I'm pretty sure you mean "divulge" not "deluge").