Writing Discussion II

[Respubliko de Libereco]

I wouldn't know anything about that, obviously.


Honestly, it's been a while since I wrote anything substantial that wasn't technical documentation. My Esperanto is getting good enough that I might start experimenting with translating some of my favourite poems from English/French, though.

You know how in movies, characters always turn the TV on just in time for the incredibly story relevant news broadcast? Or it's just filled with all the wrong, normally never on, movies?

This sort of thing clearly happens. You come back to A&F just in time for a conversation on the vitality of this thread? What are the odds?

I've been checking out the thread every couple of months or so, but those checks usually ended up being during periods of inactivity, so I didn't really end up posting. My nation also died a few times, and setting it up again seemed like a hassle (I'm still not sure where I kept my old flag image).

[USS Monitor]

I'm starting a new SF story about Martian and Jovian colonists rebelling against Earth. I can explain more if anyone is curious.

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

[Pax Nerdvana]

I'm starting a new SF story about Martian and Jovian colonists rebelling against Earth. I can explain more if anyone is curious.

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

Character, character, character.

[Pax Nerdvana]

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

Character, character, character.

I know I need to get some characters as well.

[USS Monitor]

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

Even if it is possible for them to survive without Earth, it would still most likely to create new challenges, same as it would create challenges for the US if we suddenly lost our ability to import cheap crap from China.

Not directly related to your story idea, but a while back I had a thought about space colonization: Would there be a practical advantage to using Tibetans or Sherpas as the first human colonists on other planets or space colonies so that you don't need to maintain as high of a concentration of oxygen for people to breathe without a space suit? There are also some South American and African ethnic groups that have their own genetic adaptations to high altitude, and you could apply the same idea. Their bodies don't actually use less oxygen AFAIK, so you wouldn't have any advantage if you're using space suits, but if you're filling a large space station or terraforming a planet, and a lot of the oxygen is just filling the space rather than going directly into someone's lungs, there might be an advantage to using Tibetan colonists.

[Pax Nerdvana]

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

Even if it is possible for them to survive without Earth, it would still most likely to create new challenges, same as it would create challenges for the US if we suddenly lost our ability to import cheap crap from China.

Not directly related to your story idea, but a while back I had a thought about space colonization: Would there be a practical advantage to using Tibetans or Sherpas as the first human colonists on other planets or space colonies so that you don't need to maintain as high of a concentration of oxygen for people to breathe without a space suit? There are also some South American and African ethnic groups that have their own genetic adaptations to high altitude, and you could apply the same idea. Their bodies don't actually use less oxygen AFAIK, so you wouldn't have any advantage if you're using space suits, but if you're filling a large space station or terraforming a planet, and a lot of the oxygen is just filling the space rather than going directly into someone's lungs, there might be an advantage to using Tibetan colonists.

That is an interesting idea. It might be worth expanding on.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

The idea of a Martian colony rebelling is not super original on its own. Off the top of my head, the film Total Recall and the game Red Faction: Guerrilla both involve Martian rebellions. That doesn't mean it's not a cool idea - it just means you need to flesh out more clearly the sort of story that you're going for, both in terms of the actual premise as well as in terms of the story itself.

Here are some questions you could ask yourself that relate to the premise itself:

• What is the political situation like prior to the rebellion? Is it "colonialism" in the conventional sense, with Mars and Jupiter being exploited for resources and lacking full representation? Or is the Earth-based government already disliked by its own "full" citizens, with the off-planet colonies simply being the only parts of the country that can feasibly rebel? Is the enemy even a government (rather than, say, a powerful capitalist corporation)?
• What is the dominant ideology of the rebellion? Are they just trying to establish their own independent-but-politically-similar government, or is this a full-blown communist/anarchist/whatever revolution?
• How much infighting and sectarianism is there among the rebels?
• Are the ethnic or religious demographics of the colonies different from those of Earth? Does this affect the reasons for rebelling?
• How much support is there for the rebels from people living in the colonies? What about on earth?
• Do other nations have colonies on the same moons/planets that might or might not be experiencing similar unrest?
• What sort of war is this? Is it a full on uniformed-soldiers-against-uniformed-soldiers thing, or is the fighting based on guerilla tactics? Is terrorism involved? Does the expense of space travel make it more of a cold war and/or trade war? Is it a proxy war between two larger powers?

Here are some questions you should ask yourself about the actual story. In my opinion, these questions are very important, and you should take them into account when making your world-building decisions.

• Do you want your story to clearly evoke the American Revolution (which you say it's inspired by), or do you want it to feel completely new and unique?
• Do you want the story to be about the war and those involved, or is the war merely a setting for a more character-driven story?
• On a broad level, what type of story is this? Is it a mystery? Action/adventure? Drama? Romance? Horror? Fictional non-fiction (I would advise against this)?
• Is there a more specific genre you're interested in using (e.g. cyberpunk or neo-noir)? More generally, what sort of aesthetic feel are you going for?
• Is there a real-world problem or concern that you want your story to reflect?

[New haven america]

I don't find this one line description particularly intriguing, but I can't tell if it's actually a boring story or if you just haven't gone into enough detail to cover the stuff that makes it interesting. Is there something special about why they're rebelling, who is leading the rebellion, etc.?

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

So... The Expanse?

[USS Monitor]

Since I posted that idea about Tibetan/Sherpa space colonists, I've been mulling it over and I sort of have a plot to go with it.

If terraforming goes well and a colony is successful, different kinds of people will move in. In time the demographics of the colony will usually become similar to the mother country, or it will become a diverse cross-section of humanity, or it will be dominated by whatever group was experiencing some kind of upheaval that drove them out of their homeland on Earth (e.g. if it was happening now, you'd have a lot of Syrians because of the refugee crisis).

However, there are some colonies where Tibetans or Sherpas get sent in to establish a human population, taking advantage of their adaption to high altitude to cope with low oxygen levels, but then the terraforming doesn't go right or the colony just never takes off economically. So you wind up with a bunch of Tibetan and Sherpa colonies on crappy planets that are only marginally habitable, and the people that put them there are not doing much to support them. If they declare independence, everyone is just as happy to let them go because it means they don't have to worry about sending more supplies. Several of these colonies have banded together as the nation of Sherwania. Sherwania is very desolate and sparsely populated. Most of it is on planets with low atmospheric oxygen levels, weak gravity, and/or inadequate sunlight. The weak gravity and inadequate sunlight are often the reasons why they have trouble getting the atmospheric oxygen up to normal Earthlike levels. Even though Sherwania is built on the crappiest land ever inhabited by humans, its size and its knowledge of space travel make it somewhat formidable.

Sherwania is pissed off at a bunch of governments and corporations that have built colonies and then not provided adequate support for the colonists. This is an issue that has been causing friction for a long time. Sometimes Sherwania will send aid to the colonists or rescue the survivors from failed colonies, but rescue missions are expensive, and they get angry if the people who originally sponsored the colony do not pay them for their trouble. There have been some colonies where the colonists died because they stopped getting supplies, or because nobody evacuated them when the terraforming failed. Sherwania wants a bunch of reparations -- for both themselves and the survivors of the failed colonies -- and they want to extradite a bunch of people and put them on trial for crimes against humanity or criminal negligence. This has escalated to a level where Sherwania is threatening to raid Earth and take people by force.

[Ameriganastan]

Why must people ask me personally for my opinion on their stories? It always feels like I get put on the spot when that happens. I'm not even that good a fic writer, so it's not like I can give them a good critique. And then I wind up just saying something generically positive cause I don't wanna hurt their feelings. It's a mess.

[USS Monitor]

Why must people ask me personally for my opinion on their stories? It always feels like I get put on the spot when that happens. I'm not even that good a fic writer, so it's not like I can give them a good critique. And then I wind up just saying something generically positive cause I don't wanna hurt their feelings. It's a mess.

You don't have to be a great writer yourself to gauge whether someone else's story works or not. OTOH, it is awkward if someone asks your opinion, but their story is crap, and you don't want to hurt their feelings by saying so.

[Chan Island]

Since I posted that idea about Tibetan/Sherpa space colonists, I've been mulling it over and I sort of have a plot to go with it.

If terraforming goes well and a colony is successful, different kinds of people will move in. In time the demographics of the colony will usually become similar to the mother country, or it will become a diverse cross-section of humanity, or it will be dominated by whatever group was experiencing some kind of upheaval that drove them out of their homeland on Earth (e.g. if it was happening now, you'd have a lot of Syrians because of the refugee crisis).

However, there are some colonies where Tibetans or Sherpas get sent in to establish a human population, taking advantage of their adaption to high altitude to cope with low oxygen levels, but then the terraforming doesn't go right or the colony just never takes off economically. So you wind up with a bunch of Tibetan and Sherpa colonies on crappy planets that are only marginally habitable, and the people that put them there are not doing much to support them. If they declare independence, everyone is just as happy to let them go because it means they don't have to worry about sending more supplies. Several of these colonies have banded together as the nation of Sherwania. Sherwania is very desolate and sparsely populated. Most of it is on planets with low atmospheric oxygen levels, weak gravity, and/or inadequate sunlight. The weak gravity and inadequate sunlight are often the reasons why they have trouble getting the atmospheric oxygen up to normal Earthlike levels. Even though Sherwania is built on the crappiest land ever inhabited by humans, its size and its knowledge of space travel make it somewhat formidable.

Sherwania is pissed off at a bunch of governments and corporations that have built colonies and then not provided adequate support for the colonists. This is an issue that has been causing friction for a long time. Sometimes Sherwania will send aid to the colonists or rescue the survivors from failed colonies, but rescue missions are expensive, and they get angry if the people who originally sponsored the colony do not pay them for their trouble. There have been some colonies where the colonists died because they stopped getting supplies, or because nobody evacuated them when the terraforming failed. Sherwania wants a bunch of reparations -- for both themselves and the survivors of the failed colonies -- and they want to extradite a bunch of people and put them on trial for crimes against humanity or criminal negligence. This has escalated to a level where Sherwania is threatening to raid Earth and take people by force.

A similar question to this one, which I have been mulling over for a while in a space opera of my own is actually more to do with small countries. Or specifically, how would space politics work if the current NationStates of Earth remained.

Say for example that Luxembourg funds a space colony on some distant planet. After a couple decades or centuries, the planet is now a bustling economic hub populated by millions. Yet, if Luxembourg still remained the same on Earth, we would end up with this huge planet ruled by a tiny area on Earth that could never militarily keep the colony independent.

Or, even weirder, we could end up with borders that seem counterintuitive. Say for example Albania and Chad both fund and launch a colony enterprise onto another distant planet. After a couple of decades, the colonists have to sit down and agree where exactly on this distant planet their borders are going to have to run. How would the home countries be affected, or would they even take any responsibility in the process? Would the 2 end up in fights in the UN over this border? And what if the colonists just decided to unite as their own, third country of Chalbania?

You see, these questions are probably why most sci-fi writers just say that humanity has united into a superstate while off on their star hopping adventures.

EDIT: By the way, the space opera idea there I'm doing does tackle these ideas.... let's just say the politics get very, very complicated, very, very quickly

[Pax Nerdvana]

I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have a lot of info, as of yet. I was inspired after reading a book on the Continental Navy, so it's greatly inspired by the American Revolution. It's far enough in the future, to the point where Mars has been colonized, along with some of Jupiter's moons. They no longer need Earth, but Earth refuses to let them be independent, so they decide to rebel. That's about all I have.

The idea of a Martian colony rebelling is not super original on its own. Off the top of my head, the film Total Recall and the game Red Faction: Guerrilla both involve Martian rebellions. That doesn't mean it's not a cool idea - it just means you need to flesh out more clearly the sort of story that you're going for, both in terms of the actual premise as well as in terms of the story itself.

Here are some questions you could ask yourself that relate to the premise itself:

• What is the political situation like prior to the rebellion? Is it "colonialism" in the conventional sense, with Mars and Jupiter being exploited for resources and lacking full representation? Or is the Earth-based government already disliked by its own "full" citizens, with the off-planet colonies simply being the only parts of the country that can feasibly rebel? Is the enemy even a government (rather than, say, a powerful capitalist corporation)?
• What is the dominant ideology of the rebellion? Are they just trying to establish their own independent-but-politically-similar government, or is this a full-blown communist/anarchist/whatever revolution?
• How much infighting and sectarianism is there among the rebels?
• Are the ethnic or religious demographics of the colonies different from those of Earth? Does this affect the reasons for rebelling?
• How much support is there for the rebels from people living in the colonies? What about on earth?
• Do other nations have colonies on the same moons/planets that might or might not be experiencing similar unrest?
• What sort of war is this? Is it a full on uniformed-soldiers-against-uniformed-soldiers thing, or is the fighting based on guerilla tactics? Is terrorism involved? Does the expense of space travel make it more of a cold war and/or trade war? Is it a proxy war between two larger powers?

Here are some questions you should ask yourself about the actual story. In my opinion, these questions are very important, and you should take them into account when making your world-building decisions.

• Do you want your story to clearly evoke the American Revolution (which you say it's inspired by), or do you want it to feel completely new and unique?
• Do you want the story to be about the war and those involved, or is the war merely a setting for a more character-driven story?
• On a broad level, what type of story is this? Is it a mystery? Action/adventure? Drama? Romance? Horror? Fictional non-fiction (I would advise against this)?
• Is there a more specific genre you're interested in using (e.g. cyberpunk or neo-noir)? More generally, what sort of aesthetic feel are you going for?
• Is there a real-world problem or concern that you want your story to reflect?

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

[Nordengrund]

I finally got back to writing after a hiatus. I have always struggled with perfectionism and don’t feel as creative as I used to be. I stopped due to a lack of ideas I thought were good or original, and because I feel too limited in some ways. I had to have the perfect story idea. So now, I just force myself to write whatever comes to mind. I have gotten back into reading novels because the best writers are readers and I hear it can help boost your creativity, but I wonder if this applies to other mediums like scripts, light novels, manga, etc, as my view is that you should read extensively in whatever medium you plan on writing in?

[USS Monitor]

The idea of a Martian colony rebelling is not super original on its own. Off the top of my head, the film Total Recall and the game Red Faction: Guerrilla both involve Martian rebellions. That doesn't mean it's not a cool idea - it just means you need to flesh out more clearly the sort of story that you're going for, both in terms of the actual premise as well as in terms of the story itself.

Here are some questions you could ask yourself that relate to the premise itself:

• What is the political situation like prior to the rebellion? Is it "colonialism" in the conventional sense, with Mars and Jupiter being exploited for resources and lacking full representation? Or is the Earth-based government already disliked by its own "full" citizens, with the off-planet colonies simply being the only parts of the country that can feasibly rebel? Is the enemy even a government (rather than, say, a powerful capitalist corporation)?
• What is the dominant ideology of the rebellion? Are they just trying to establish their own independent-but-politically-similar government, or is this a full-blown communist/anarchist/whatever revolution?
• How much infighting and sectarianism is there among the rebels?
• Are the ethnic or religious demographics of the colonies different from those of Earth? Does this affect the reasons for rebelling?
• How much support is there for the rebels from people living in the colonies? What about on earth?
• Do other nations have colonies on the same moons/planets that might or might not be experiencing similar unrest?
• What sort of war is this? Is it a full on uniformed-soldiers-against-uniformed-soldiers thing, or is the fighting based on guerilla tactics? Is terrorism involved? Does the expense of space travel make it more of a cold war and/or trade war? Is it a proxy war between two larger powers?

Here are some questions you should ask yourself about the actual story. In my opinion, these questions are very important, and you should take them into account when making your world-building decisions.

• Do you want your story to clearly evoke the American Revolution (which you say it's inspired by), or do you want it to feel completely new and unique?
• Do you want the story to be about the war and those involved, or is the war merely a setting for a more character-driven story?
• On a broad level, what type of story is this? Is it a mystery? Action/adventure? Drama? Romance? Horror? Fictional non-fiction (I would advise against this)?
• Is there a more specific genre you're interested in using (e.g. cyberpunk or neo-noir)? More generally, what sort of aesthetic feel are you going for?
• Is there a real-world problem or concern that you want your story to reflect?

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

You'll still want to figure out the political background, and how it relates to this guy's life.

[USS Monitor]

You see, these questions are probably why most sci-fi writers just say that humanity has united into a superstate while off on their star hopping adventures.

They miss so many opportunities, though.

[New haven america]

The idea of a Martian colony rebelling is not super original on its own. Off the top of my head, the film Total Recall and the game Red Faction: Guerrilla both involve Martian rebellions. That doesn't mean it's not a cool idea - it just means you need to flesh out more clearly the sort of story that you're going for, both in terms of the actual premise as well as in terms of the story itself.

Here are some questions you could ask yourself that relate to the premise itself:

• What is the political situation like prior to the rebellion? Is it "colonialism" in the conventional sense, with Mars and Jupiter being exploited for resources and lacking full representation? Or is the Earth-based government already disliked by its own "full" citizens, with the off-planet colonies simply being the only parts of the country that can feasibly rebel? Is the enemy even a government (rather than, say, a powerful capitalist corporation)?
• What is the dominant ideology of the rebellion? Are they just trying to establish their own independent-but-politically-similar government, or is this a full-blown communist/anarchist/whatever revolution?
• How much infighting and sectarianism is there among the rebels?
• Are the ethnic or religious demographics of the colonies different from those of Earth? Does this affect the reasons for rebelling?
• How much support is there for the rebels from people living in the colonies? What about on earth?
• Do other nations have colonies on the same moons/planets that might or might not be experiencing similar unrest?
• What sort of war is this? Is it a full on uniformed-soldiers-against-uniformed-soldiers thing, or is the fighting based on guerilla tactics? Is terrorism involved? Does the expense of space travel make it more of a cold war and/or trade war? Is it a proxy war between two larger powers?

Here are some questions you should ask yourself about the actual story. In my opinion, these questions are very important, and you should take them into account when making your world-building decisions.

• Do you want your story to clearly evoke the American Revolution (which you say it's inspired by), or do you want it to feel completely new and unique?
• Do you want the story to be about the war and those involved, or is the war merely a setting for a more character-driven story?
• On a broad level, what type of story is this? Is it a mystery? Action/adventure? Drama? Romance? Horror? Fictional non-fiction (I would advise against this)?
• Is there a more specific genre you're interested in using (e.g. cyberpunk or neo-noir)? More generally, what sort of aesthetic feel are you going for?
• Is there a real-world problem or concern that you want your story to reflect?

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

"So... The Expanse?" I repeat.

[Chan Island]

You see, these questions are probably why most sci-fi writers just say that humanity has united into a superstate while off on their star hopping adventures.

They miss so many opportunities, though.

You won't be surprised to say that I agree. Honestly, complicated politics and their dynamics is one of the best parts about world building in my opinion.

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

"So... The Expanse?" I repeat.

Not necessarily, but Pax will have to still figure out all of those questions in order to create a more interesting story than a simple "oh golly, the Martians colonists have rebelled".

[USS Monitor]

They miss so many opportunities, though.

You won't be surprised to say that I agree. Honestly, complicated politics and their dynamics is one of the best parts about world building in my opinion.

You don't always need complicated politics, but having them does open up a lot of interesting story possibilities.

And I think it would add some depth to Pax's story. Even if the protagonist is an "I don't care about this political shit; I'm just doing this for the money and adventure!" type of character, it's still worthwhile to have an idea of what the political shit was about. Speaking of which...

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

You haven't told us much about who this character is -- his background, his motivation, his goals, etc.

Is that because you want to avoid over-sharing or because you haven't figured out who he is yet?

[Pax Nerdvana]

You won't be surprised to say that I agree. Honestly, complicated politics and their dynamics is one of the best parts about world building in my opinion.

You don't always need complicated politics, but having them does open up a lot of interesting story possibilities.

And I think it would add some depth to Pax's story. Even if the protagonist is an "I don't care about this political shit; I'm just doing this for the money and adventure!" type of character, it's still worthwhile to have an idea of what the political shit was about. Speaking of which...

Thanks for all of the advice. The whole war is more of a setting. I'm basing it around a single main character, which coincidentally makes it easier to keep track of characters. I'm hoping to make it more of a war story following the main character, who is a crewman on a privateer. Thanks again for all of this advice.

You haven't told us much about who this character is -- his background, his motivation, his goals, etc.

Is that because you want to avoid over-sharing or because you haven't figured out who he is yet?

It's the latter. Worldbuilding is fun, but I'm not very good at it, and now you all are making me doubt my original idea, but it could probably do with some reworking anyhow.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

You don't always need complicated politics, but having them does open up a lot of interesting story possibilities.

And I think it would add some depth to Pax's story. Even if the protagonist is an "I don't care about this political shit; I'm just doing this for the money and adventure!" type of character, it's still worthwhile to have an idea of what the political shit was about. Speaking of which...



You haven't told us much about who this character is -- his background, his motivation, his goals, etc.

Is that because you want to avoid over-sharing or because you haven't figured out who he is yet?

It's the latter. Worldbuilding is fun, but I'm not very good at it, and now you all are making me doubt my original idea, but it could probably do with some reworking anyhow.

Remember, the idea isn't the main thing. An old idea executed well is better than a really cool idea executed clumsily. Again, I'd urge you to focus on character. A super-original idea for a setting is nice. But it's not a keystone without which you cannot build your story, nor is it going to hold your story up if the other elements are weak. If a little bit of worldbuilding is how you get started, then great. But there's no point spending hours and hours agonising over making your setting perfectly original if you can't then populate it with interesting people.

No one cares if fictional Mars gets its independence from fictional Earth. Nor do they care if Mars has really complicated geopolitics because of all the different Earth nations that have colonised bits of it. But if your main character is trying to keep her family together in the midst of Martian ethnic conflict? And her daughter is off fighting against Earth and her brother is painting a target on all their backs by making provocative speeches, and there's not enough food, and she doesn't know who she can trust, and her daughter hasn't called in weeks, and she feels like this is all her fault because in the past she did x, y, and z etc etc? People might care about that, if you tell it with good prose and a sense for pacing. And then maybe they'll care about your Martian geopolitics.

Really dig into who your characters are. Work out what interesting situations you can put them in. What kind of antagonist will best challenge these people? Will they be forced to change? How? And if you have to tweak your setting to make that work, don't be afraid to.

Mediocre characters + great setting = mediocre story
Great characters + mediocre setting = great story

[Vienna Eliot]

I disagree with the politics stuff. If the story isn't about politics — if the audience doesn't care about politics — then if anything it hurts to include it. Nobody praises the Phantom Menace for its attention to political detail.

Platypus has it right. When we distill literature to its most basic constituents, we're left with plot and characters. To take it to the extremes, there's plenty of good literature without thorough plots (I think this is especially true in theatre — any number of one-man plays come to mind). Good stories without characters are much rarer.

[USS Monitor]

I disagree with the politics stuff. If the story isn't about politics — if the audience doesn't care about politics — then if anything it hurts to include it. Nobody praises the Phantom Menace for its attention to political detail.

Platypus has it right. When we distill literature to its most basic constituents, we're left with plot and characters. To take it to the extremes, there's plenty of good literature without thorough plots (I think this is especially true in theatre — any number of one-man plays come to mind). Good stories without characters are much rarer.

I think you've misunderstood what my point was about politics. It wasn't that you should explain the politics in excruciating detail when they're irrelevant to the plot. It wasn't that you should make hundreds of different factions just for the sake complexity. (Two factions with a unique relationship add more to the story than a hundred factions that are poorly explained.) It wasn't that you should have gratuitous scenes set in the legislature, which is what Phantom Menace does. It's that Pax, as the author of a story about a Martian rebellion, should have an idea of why Mars is rebelling.

Neither Chan nor I ever once said that character development should be thrown under the bus to make room for politics. But there's no reason you can't have both. Characters don't exist in a vacuum. An interesting political situation gives you something for your characters to take sides in, and then you can look at why they are on the sides they are on -- or you can have some characters that dismiss politics as stupid and refuse to take sides. You can have interesting conflicts where characters care for each other personally, but disagree politically. Characters' political views should be just one aspect of the character, but it's an aspect that's likely to be worth exploring in a war story, at least a little and at least for some characters.

The Phantom Menace isn't praised for its attention to political detail because it doesn't have much, and what it does have is presented clumsily. It has gratuitous scenes in the legislature, which don't actually dig that deep into the motivations of the different factions or the ramifications of the ideas being discussed. Nobody has told Pax that he should include actual scenes set in the legislature.

[Vienna Eliot]

snip

At first I thought the 14 minutes dedicated to the Galactic Senate's debate on the Equal Rights Amendment was jarring and out of place with the flow of the film, but after five consecutive viewings I understood what the director was going for.

Regardless, my two paragraphs were unrelated. But I still contend that some things don't need to be explored, or even known by the author. If the characters of the story aren't intimately connected to why Mars is rebelling, then it doesn't matter. The speaker of Zombie by the Cranberries doesn't care about the politics of the Troubles. She cares that children are being murdered. Sometimes it just doesn't matter.