Dragon Ball Discussion Thread - WAIFU WARS: THE DBZ FRONT

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

Some of his other comments made him look like a retard or an asshole, especially when he was talking with Vegeta

Well, he is kinda.... dense. He seems to have a hard time grasping why Vegeta would rather stay close to Bulma rather than go train, because, well, Goku wouldn't. He literally cannot wrap his mind around the possibility, because were he in Vegeta's situation, he would assume that "Well, there's nothing I can do here about this, I'mma go do something productive instead of waste time doing nothing here." All without grasping the possibility that as a father, maybe the mother would appreciate his presence and support.

Let's keep in mind that Goku was basically a feral child without proper schooling or any experience in dealing with people throughout much of his formative childhood years. (And let's face it, being raised by a reclusive hermit wasn't going to teach those social skills either.) He was already like 12 when Bulma found him way back in the beginning of Dragon Ball, at which point much of the damage would have been done and largely irreversible. That he can function at all in social settings is likely thanks to his adoptive grandfather teaching him the basics of language and a moral code, and the fact he was found by Bulma and brought into society before he could lose that knowledge living in isolation. I tend to see Goku being not necessarily stupid, because he has demonstrated time and again that he can be extremely intelligent in certain areas, but severely impaired when it comes to how he socializes and bonds with people.

Plus, y'know, no telling what the childhood brain trauma contributed to that.

there's all of that, and he IS also an alien and doesn't think the same way regular humans do. of course that doesn't really apply when comparing him to Vegeta, but it does when you compare him to Gohan or other fully human characters.

his crazy desire to fight and grow stronger all the time is because he's a Saiyan, not really because he's an asshole.

[Reploid Productions]

Well, he is kinda.... dense. He seems to have a hard time grasping why Vegeta would rather stay close to Bulma rather than go train, because, well, Goku wouldn't. He literally cannot wrap his mind around the possibility, because were he in Vegeta's situation, he would assume that "Well, there's nothing I can do here about this, I'mma go do something productive instead of waste time doing nothing here." All without grasping the possibility that as a father, maybe the mother would appreciate his presence and support.

Let's keep in mind that Goku was basically a feral child without proper schooling or any experience in dealing with people throughout much of his formative childhood years. (And let's face it, being raised by a reclusive hermit wasn't going to teach those social skills either.) He was already like 12 when Bulma found him way back in the beginning of Dragon Ball, at which point much of the damage would have been done and largely irreversible. That he can function at all in social settings is likely thanks to his adoptive grandfather teaching him the basics of language and a moral code, and the fact he was found by Bulma and brought into society before he could lose that knowledge living in isolation. I tend to see Goku being not necessarily stupid, because he has demonstrated time and again that he can be extremely intelligent in certain areas, but severely impaired when it comes to how he socializes and bonds with people.

Plus, y'know, no telling what the childhood brain trauma contributed to that.

there's all of that, and he IS also an alien and doesn't think the same way regular humans do. of course that doesn't really apply when comparing him to Vegeta, but it does when you compare him to Gohan or other fully human characters.

his crazy desire to fight and grow stronger all the time is because he's a Saiyan, not really because he's an asshole.

And unlike say, Vegeta or any of the half-Saiyajin characters, he's never been sufficiently socialized to redirect his focus away from that instinctive desire to fight. He's not an asshole... he's just... well, never been fully domesticated. Like an outdoor cat.

[Narintia]

I'm just saying, he was never this dense in DBZ.

He also wasn't shown in a lot of these social situations where his social density would really come out on display, either. Super's been giving a lot of attention to characters socializing compared to Z, and even in Z he had a few really massive moments of Not Getting People. Probably the biggest offender- his plan for the Cell Games.

Good Idea: Train your son up to be the unexpected trump card to take down the big bad.
Bad Idea: Not telling anyone about the plan, least of all the poor kid, and mistakenly assuming that said son is going to be all cool and gung-ho about the fight just because you would be in his situation.

Once again, his inability to grasp how other people feel or think made a huge mess where there might not have been a need for one. Someone who gets people, after recognizing that Gohan had the potential to be far stronger than anyone else on the field, would probably have explained it to him ahead of time, and maybe taken another day in the time chamber to work with him and help him realize and utilize that potential so that he wouldn't freeze up in fear or anything. Which isn't how Goku handled that, he was counting on Gohan to ragebreak and mop the floor with Cell, all without so much as considering that Gohan doesn't like fighting the way he does, and that the poor kid is scared shitless by the entire situation. Goku couldn't grasp the idea, because when he was Gohan's age, he didn't afraid of anything and he clearly enjoyed fighting; so he cannot fathom the idea that Gohan isn't like that at all.

EDIT TO ADD: Unrelated to the above, but OMFG I finally cleared expert mission #15 in XV2. Good grief, that Extreme Malice mission manages to reach XV1 Eternal Rival levels of bullshit. The last two expert missions after that are a cakewalk in comparison!

Yeah, but #17 online
Goku has nine bars of health
no pls
Oh yeah, and 10 seconds each time you wipe away a bar of health?
NO PLSe

[Reploid Productions]

He also wasn't shown in a lot of these social situations where his social density would really come out on display, either. Super's been giving a lot of attention to characters socializing compared to Z, and even in Z he had a few really massive moments of Not Getting People. Probably the biggest offender- his plan for the Cell Games.

Good Idea: Train your son up to be the unexpected trump card to take down the big bad.
Bad Idea: Not telling anyone about the plan, least of all the poor kid, and mistakenly assuming that said son is going to be all cool and gung-ho about the fight just because you would be in his situation.

Once again, his inability to grasp how other people feel or think made a huge mess where there might not have been a need for one. Someone who gets people, after recognizing that Gohan had the potential to be far stronger than anyone else on the field, would probably have explained it to him ahead of time, and maybe taken another day in the time chamber to work with him and help him realize and utilize that potential so that he wouldn't freeze up in fear or anything. Which isn't how Goku handled that, he was counting on Gohan to ragebreak and mop the floor with Cell, all without so much as considering that Gohan doesn't like fighting the way he does, and that the poor kid is scared shitless by the entire situation. Goku couldn't grasp the idea, because when he was Gohan's age, he didn't afraid of anything and he clearly enjoyed fighting; so he cannot fathom the idea that Gohan isn't like that at all.

EDIT TO ADD: Unrelated to the above, but OMFG I finally cleared expert mission #15 in XV2. Good grief, that Extreme Malice mission manages to reach XV1 Eternal Rival levels of bullshit. The last two expert missions after that are a cakewalk in comparison!

Yeah, but #17 online
Goku has nine bars of health
no pls
Oh yeah, and 10 seconds each time you wipe away a bar of health?
NO PLSe

Well, in theory, were the netcode not a steaming pile of shit plagued by lag, connection timeouts, and other such woes, that ought to be quite doable with a team of six human players who know WTF they're doing. Problem is the netcode is a steaming pile of shit etc etc.

[Gurori]

So, the new opening of Dragon Ball Super.

You have that big buff guy who resembles the hooded figure seen with the clown G.O.D and Goku ascends from base to super saiyan and then to super saiyan blue...

But then his aura goes red... He retains his super saiyan hairstyle and for a split second you can see half of his face with a similar look to Goku Black's sinister smile.

So what do you guys think this is? Do you think Goku's mastered SSJB Kaioken, gone evil or achieved a new transformation?

My theory is that it could very well be Kaioken x20 being used with Blue.

[Reploid Productions]

So, the new opening of Dragon Ball Super.

You have that big buff guy who resembles the hooded figure seen with the clown G.O.D and Goku ascends from base to super saiyan and then to super saiyan blue...

But then his aura goes red... He retains his super saiyan hairstyle and for a split second you can see half of his face with a similar look to Goku Black's sinister smile.

So what do you guys think this is? Do you think Goku's mastered SSJB Kaioken, gone evil or achieved a new transformation?

My theory is that it could very well be Kaioken x20 being used with Blue.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who saw that look on his face and was all, "Uh... that looks surprisingly sinister." The coloration would imply that he has since mastered stacking the Kaioken on top of SSJB, but if that's what that was, I don't think they'd feel the need to hide it like that, especially coupled with that tease where you can partially see his face through the aura. SSJB+Kaioken is old news at this point, even if he's since mastered it, I don't really think that alone would be worthy of such an enormous tease like we get.

I think I'm going to have to put my money on new transformation. Hell, given that kinda sinister look on his face, maybe after the stuff with Black he managed to figure out the difference between Rose and Blue, assuming that there is one aside from the coloration? I mean, back during that arc, SSJR Black was consistently outmatching SSJB Goku *and* Vegeta, though that can also partially be attributed to Black having Zamasu on hand to tank for him coupled with Goku and Vegeta's generally shitty teamwork. Goku doesn't know what the word "limitation" means, and if Rose is in fact the stronger transformation, well, thanks to Black there's literally no way to deny that Goku's body is perfectly capable of reaching and sustaining that same level. Well, barring some really bullshit thing about Black being able to do it because there was a literal, actual god making use of Saiyajin genetics anyway.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

So, the new opening of Dragon Ball Super.

You have that big buff guy who resembles the hooded figure seen with the clown G.O.D and Goku ascends from base to super saiyan and then to super saiyan blue...

But then his aura goes red... He retains his super saiyan hairstyle and for a split second you can see half of his face with a similar look to Goku Black's sinister smile.

So what do you guys think this is? Do you think Goku's mastered SSJB Kaioken, gone evil or achieved a new transformation?

My theory is that it could very well be Kaioken x20 being used with Blue.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who saw that look on his face and was all, "Uh... that looks surprisingly sinister." The coloration would imply that he has since mastered stacking the Kaioken on top of SSJB, but if that's what that was, I don't think they'd feel the need to hide it like that, especially coupled with that tease where you can partially see his face through the aura. SSJB+Kaioken is old news at this point, even if he's since mastered it, I don't really think that alone would be worthy of such an enormous tease like we get.

I think I'm going to have to put my money on new transformation. Hell, given that kinda sinister look on his face, maybe after the stuff with Black he managed to figure out the difference between Rose and Blue, assuming that there is one aside from the coloration? I mean, back during that arc, SSJR Black was consistently outmatching SSJB Goku *and* Vegeta, though that can also partially be attributed to Black having Zamasu on hand to tank for him coupled with Goku and Vegeta's generally shitty teamwork. Goku doesn't know what the word "limitation" means, and if Rose is in fact the stronger transformation, well, thanks to Black there's literally no way to deny that Goku's body is perfectly capable of reaching and sustaining that same level. Well, barring some really bullshit thing about Black being able to do it because there was a literal, actual god making use of Saiyajin genetics anyway.

I do think they are hiding a new form from us here, but I don't think it is Rose personally. from what we can tell so far, Rose is the same form as Blue but with Zamasu's essence altering the colour. it's somewhat more clear what Rose is in the manga.

[Reploid Productions]

Oh good, I'm not the only one who saw that look on his face and was all, "Uh... that looks surprisingly sinister." The coloration would imply that he has since mastered stacking the Kaioken on top of SSJB, but if that's what that was, I don't think they'd feel the need to hide it like that, especially coupled with that tease where you can partially see his face through the aura. SSJB+Kaioken is old news at this point, even if he's since mastered it, I don't really think that alone would be worthy of such an enormous tease like we get.

I think I'm going to have to put my money on new transformation. Hell, given that kinda sinister look on his face, maybe after the stuff with Black he managed to figure out the difference between Rose and Blue, assuming that there is one aside from the coloration? I mean, back during that arc, SSJR Black was consistently outmatching SSJB Goku *and* Vegeta, though that can also partially be attributed to Black having Zamasu on hand to tank for him coupled with Goku and Vegeta's generally shitty teamwork. Goku doesn't know what the word "limitation" means, and if Rose is in fact the stronger transformation, well, thanks to Black there's literally no way to deny that Goku's body is perfectly capable of reaching and sustaining that same level. Well, barring some really bullshit thing about Black being able to do it because there was a literal, actual god making use of Saiyajin genetics anyway.

I do think they are hiding a new form from us here, but I don't think it is Rose personally. from what we can tell so far, Rose is the same form as Blue but with Zamasu's essence altering the colour. it's somewhat more clear what Rose is in the manga.

True. Though, for all he's an idiot socially, Goku can be pretty damn smart about anything combat and fighting related. Possible that he's taken what he learned from the fighting with Black and Zamasu to synthesize something new? The reddish color could point toward the Kaioken or at original SSJ God, and we haven't had an in-show/manga confirmation as to whether SSJ God or SSJ Blue is technically the more powerful transformation. Since Goku's the only one who's experienced both those forms, maybe something new building on that knowledge and first-hand experience?

EDIT TO ADD: Just watched MasakoX's review of the latest episode which brings to mind an alternative interpretation of that shot of Goku in the new opening.

Throughout the episode, Goku's less likable traits were on consistent display. Especially that showdown with Beerus about Goku being so casual about bothering Zen-Oh, his expression and even the vocal inflection were ominous bordering on openly sinister in his short little Mexican standoff with Beerus about pushing the damn button. Masako outright calls it basically Black levels of tension right there. I think Beerus was very seriously thinking about doing it and taking Goku out, possibly finally recognizing what a threat Goku truly is thanks to his naive messing about with things waaaaay over his head.

Which brings us to that shot of Goku in the new opening, with the surprisingly evil looking expression. I think we're seeing some actual character development here, and it is NOT painting Goku in a very heroic light. While I wouldn't say it's likely for Goku to actually go evil, I think they may be angling it toward portraying his reckless, often inconsiderate and poorly thought-out behavior as actually being one of the biggest threats to, well, everything. Based on what we currently know about the Universe Survival arc, he's just recklessly endangered probably septillions of lives across every single universe that currently still exists, including everyone he cares about, all because he's bored and wants a challenge. He's naively assuming Zen-Oh won't be a completely capricious child and wipe universes out over a 'mere' tournament, and he's ignoring the cautions and warnings from people who have the experience and knowledge to know better.

I get the feeling Goku's headed for some extremely harsh lessons before this arc is out. Which is good, he had barely any real character growth throughout the entirety of Z aside from fancy new transformations, seeing some real character development would be nice. I mean, lately Vegeta is looking more and more like the overall vastly better and more likeable person, and when you consider where he started out, that probably says something.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

I do think they are hiding a new form from us here, but I don't think it is Rose personally. from what we can tell so far, Rose is the same form as Blue but with Zamasu's essence altering the colour. it's somewhat more clear what Rose is in the manga.

True. Though, for all he's an idiot socially, Goku can be pretty damn smart about anything combat and fighting related. Possible that he's taken what he learned from the fighting with Black and Zamasu to synthesize something new? The reddish color could point toward the Kaioken or at original SSJ God, and we haven't had an in-show/manga confirmation as to whether SSJ God or SSJ Blue is technically the more powerful transformation. Since Goku's the only one who's experienced both those forms, maybe something new building on that knowledge and first-hand experience?

EDIT TO ADD: Just watched MasakoX's review of the latest episode which brings to mind an alternative interpretation of that shot of Goku in the new opening.

Throughout the episode, Goku's less likable traits were on consistent display. Especially that showdown with Beerus about Goku being so casual about bothering Zen-Oh, his expression and even the vocal inflection were ominous bordering on openly sinister in his short little Mexican standoff with Beerus about pushing the damn button. Masako outright calls it basically Black levels of tension right there. I think Beerus was very seriously thinking about doing it and taking Goku out, possibly finally recognizing what a threat Goku truly is thanks to his naive messing about with things waaaaay over his head.

Which brings us to that shot of Goku in the new opening, with the surprisingly evil looking expression. I think we're seeing some actual character development here, and it is NOT painting Goku in a very heroic light. While I wouldn't say it's likely for Goku to actually go evil, I think they may be angling it toward portraying his reckless, often inconsiderate and poorly thought-out behavior as actually being one of the biggest threats to, well, everything. Based on what we currently know about the Universe Survival arc, he's just recklessly endangered probably septillions of lives across every single universe that currently still exists, including everyone he cares about, all because he's bored and wants a challenge. He's naively assuming Zen-Oh won't be a completely capricious child and wipe universes out over a 'mere' tournament, and he's ignoring the cautions and warnings from people who have the experience and knowledge to know better.

I get the feeling Goku's headed for some extremely harsh lessons before this arc is out. Which is good, he had barely any real character growth throughout the entirety of Z aside from fancy new transformations, seeing some real character development would be nice. I mean, lately Vegeta is looking more and more like the overall vastly better and more likeable person, and when you consider where he started out, that probably says something.

it'd be very nice to finally see Goku get some real lasting character development, I definitely see the hints

lets just hope they don't drop the ball

[Reploid Productions]

True. Though, for all he's an idiot socially, Goku can be pretty damn smart about anything combat and fighting related. Possible that he's taken what he learned from the fighting with Black and Zamasu to synthesize something new? The reddish color could point toward the Kaioken or at original SSJ God, and we haven't had an in-show/manga confirmation as to whether SSJ God or SSJ Blue is technically the more powerful transformation. Since Goku's the only one who's experienced both those forms, maybe something new building on that knowledge and first-hand experience?

EDIT TO ADD: Just watched MasakoX's review of the latest episode which brings to mind an alternative interpretation of that shot of Goku in the new opening.

Throughout the episode, Goku's less likable traits were on consistent display. Especially that showdown with Beerus about Goku being so casual about bothering Zen-Oh, his expression and even the vocal inflection were ominous bordering on openly sinister in his short little Mexican standoff with Beerus about pushing the damn button. Masako outright calls it basically Black levels of tension right there. I think Beerus was very seriously thinking about doing it and taking Goku out, possibly finally recognizing what a threat Goku truly is thanks to his naive messing about with things waaaaay over his head.

Which brings us to that shot of Goku in the new opening, with the surprisingly evil looking expression. I think we're seeing some actual character development here, and it is NOT painting Goku in a very heroic light. While I wouldn't say it's likely for Goku to actually go evil, I think they may be angling it toward portraying his reckless, often inconsiderate and poorly thought-out behavior as actually being one of the biggest threats to, well, everything. Based on what we currently know about the Universe Survival arc, he's just recklessly endangered probably septillions of lives across every single universe that currently still exists, including everyone he cares about, all because he's bored and wants a challenge. He's naively assuming Zen-Oh won't be a completely capricious child and wipe universes out over a 'mere' tournament, and he's ignoring the cautions and warnings from people who have the experience and knowledge to know better.

I get the feeling Goku's headed for some extremely harsh lessons before this arc is out. Which is good, he had barely any real character growth throughout the entirety of Z aside from fancy new transformations, seeing some real character development would be nice. I mean, lately Vegeta is looking more and more like the overall vastly better and more likeable person, and when you consider where he started out, that probably says something.

it'd be very nice to finally see Goku get some real lasting character development, I definitely see the hints

lets just hope they don't drop the ball

Yeah, I mean, we had the very first hints clear back in Battle of Gods with Goku being honestly fairly pissed that there was this awesome level of power that he could not reach without the help of others. The lesson was further reiterated during Resurrection F where neither he nor Vegeta were taking the threat posed by Frieza seriously- and that got Goku almost killed by a midget with a peashooter, and would have cost the entire planet were Whis not there. Vegeta learned the lesson after that, as evidenced by him not fucking around at all against Frost and even less so in the truly dire fights in the future timeline arc after that.

Come to think of it, Super has really been less the "Goku saves the day show" overall compared to Z. At this point I'd honestly say that he and Vegeta are solid co-protagonists. Vegeta is learning from everything that's happened, I am really hoping that we'll see some much-needed learning smacking Goku upside the head hard enough to stick.

[Britanania]

it'd be very nice to finally see Goku get some real lasting character development, I definitely see the hints

lets just hope they don't drop the ball

Yeah, I mean, we had the very first hints clear back in Battle of Gods with Goku being honestly fairly pissed that there was this awesome level of power that he could not reach without the help of others. The lesson was further reiterated during Resurrection F where neither he nor Vegeta were taking the threat posed by Frieza seriously- and that got Goku almost killed by a midget with a peashooter, and would have cost the entire planet were Whis not there. Vegeta learned the lesson after that, as evidenced by him not fucking around at all against Frost and even less so in the truly dire fights in the future timeline arc after that.

Come to think of it, Super has really been less the "Goku saves the day show" overall compared to Z. At this point I'd honestly say that he and Vegeta are solid co-protagonists. Vegeta is learning from everything that's happened, I am really hoping that we'll see some much-needed learning smacking Goku upside the head hard enough to stick.

So long as they give Vegeta some pay off, of course.

[Gurori]

Would it be appropriate for me to post the IP for my Modded Minecraft Server here?

One of the mods it uses is a Dragon Ball Z mod which is why I ask.

(This question is more directed at Reppy and Fin since Rep is a forum admin and Fin is thread OP)

[Gurori]

[Reploid Productions]

Would it be appropriate for me to post the IP for my Modded Minecraft Server here?

One of the mods it uses is a Dragon Ball Z mod which is why I ask.

(This question is more directed at Reppy and Fin since Rep is a forum admin and Fin is thread OP)

Eh, it's related to the topic of the thread, I don't see an issue with it. I don't play Minecraft myself though.

[Gurori]

Would it be appropriate for me to post the IP for my Modded Minecraft Server here?

One of the mods it uses is a Dragon Ball Z mod which is why I ask.

(This question is more directed at Reppy and Fin since Rep is a forum admin and Fin is thread OP)

Eh, it's related to the topic of the thread, I don't see an issue with it. I don't play Minecraft myself though.

In the end I just put a link to it's website in my profile.

[Gurori]

The Joker ISNT Universe 9's Hakaishin as many thought

Gimley is a Hakaishin, but he is indecisive and hardly able to destroy anything.

His name is Sidra, a pun on Cider and the Universe 9 Kaioshin is called Rou.

The only Universe 11 God revealed is a Kaioshin and he's called Kai.

[Gurori]

I'll just have to wait until the possible announcement of DBXV2 for Nintendo Switch, my life is sad.

Also this happened.

[Reploid Productions]

I'll just have to wait until the possible announcement of DBXV2 for Nintendo Switch, my life is sad.

Also this happened.

I am loving the entire Cell Vs series of guest-edited shorts. Perfect way to build up the hype ahead of the season 3 finale.

[Gurori]

[Reploid Productions]

Well, as soon as "BTW everyone, this tournament is Goku from U7's brilliant idea!" and "BTW everyone, the losers' universes get annihilated" are put together, Goku is about to be on the shitlist of literally every deity in the entire multiverse. Congrats, you reckless idiot, that has got to be some sort of achievement right there.

Interestingly, I think the consequences of his reckless actions might even be starting to pierce Goku's infamously thick skull, given his reaction to the news. Plus this time he actually listened to Beerus and Whis when they cautioned him against popping over to the palace and trying to get Zen-Oh to retract the "loser universes go boom" part. It was also refreshing to see Gohan actually chewing him out about it, too. I hope these hints of character growth aren't a fluke and that we see more of it. I mean, Goku is incredibly good at living in the here and now without excessively fretting about things in the past that are done and can't be changed or about things in the future that he can't predict and can't do anything about; that is definitely a good quality in that it can keep somebody from completely wigging out under pressure.... but also a bad quality in that it does make him seem like he isn't worried at all about having the deaths of absurdly-incalcuable -illions (hell, when dealing with entire universes, might even be time to break out googolplexes) that will be directly on his head.

Then again, the idea of consequences may kinda be a new one on our leading idiot here. Pretty much his entire life, consequences, at least the major, serious, world-ending, deaths-of-everyone-he-cares-about ones have never stuck. Ever. Deaths get fixed with the dragonballs, the entire planet getting wiped out has been fixed that way at least once and then again thanks to Whis' deus ex machina. I wonder if the superballs can wish back entire universes or not? If so, well, then consequences once again undone and likely Goku goes home with no lessons really learned.

On the other hand, the show has gotten super crazy dark back during the stuff with Black and Zamasu.... so I have to wonder.

What if Universe 7 loses? What if our idiot hero gets handed consequences that he cannot fix, leaving the U7 team (and possibly any friends/family who were in the audience) the only survivors of a doomed universe? Will Toriyama be willing to go that dark and actually break the series' iconic, naive idiot protagonist? I'm kinda almost hoping he does go that far, turn the main timeline into the Darkest Timeline and put Goku through the ringer trying to find a way to put things right. Character development, I crave it!!

Non-spoiler version:
NICE JOB BREAKING IT, HERO!

[The Republic of Atria]

Well, as soon as "BTW everyone, this tournament is Goku from U7's brilliant idea!" and "BTW everyone, the losers' universes get annihilated" are put together, Goku is about to be on the shitlist of literally every deity in the entire multiverse. Congrats, you reckless idiot, that has got to be some sort of achievement right there.

Interestingly, I think the consequences of his reckless actions might even be starting to pierce Goku's infamously thick skull, given his reaction to the news. Plus this time he actually listened to Beerus and Whis when they cautioned him against popping over to the palace and trying to get Zen-Oh to retract the "loser universes go boom" part. It was also refreshing to see Gohan actually chewing him out about it, too. I hope these hints of character growth aren't a fluke and that we see more of it. I mean, Goku is incredibly good at living in the here and now without excessively fretting about things in the past that are done and can't be changed or about things in the future that he can't predict and can't do anything about; that is definitely a good quality in that it can keep somebody from completely wigging out under pressure.... but also a bad quality in that it does make him seem like he isn't worried at all about having the deaths of absurdly-incalcuable -illions (hell, when dealing with entire universes, might even be time to break out googolplexes) that will be directly on his head.

Then again, the idea of consequences may kinda be a new one on our leading idiot here. Pretty much his entire life, consequences, at least the major, serious, world-ending, deaths-of-everyone-he-cares-about ones have never stuck. Ever. Deaths get fixed with the dragonballs, the entire planet getting wiped out has been fixed that way at least once and then again thanks to Whis' deus ex machina. I wonder if the superballs can wish back entire universes or not? If so, well, then consequences once again undone and likely Goku goes home with no lessons really learned.

On the other hand, the show has gotten super crazy dark back during the stuff with Black and Zamasu.... so I have to wonder.

What if Universe 7 loses? What if our idiot hero gets handed consequences that he cannot fix, leaving the U7 team (and possibly any friends/family who were in the audience) the only survivors of a doomed universe? Will Toriyama be willing to go that dark and actually break the series' iconic, naive idiot protagonist? I'm kinda almost hoping he does go that far, turn the main timeline into the Darkest Timeline and put Goku through the ringer trying to find a way to put things right. Character development, I crave it!!

Non-spoiler version:
NICE JOB BREAKING IT, HERO!

It's nice to see Goku's dumbassery finally get him into something genuinely dangerous. That being said. I'm betting that Zeno is just screwing with everyone. Not saying he won't do it. But I'm guessing that he's just saying it to get everyone to fight for real. He won't say anything until it's all over and will be like. "Lol, just kidding guys. I just wanted you to think there were stakes so you'd fight for real." Or he's telling the truth and Goku you're a fucking idiot.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

cool theory I heard somewhere

what if the future Zeno is actually Zamasu?

sounds kinda crazy right? but think about it... Zamasu was becoming one with the universe, he had attained some incorporeal transcendent form, who's to say he could not have taken over the Omniking's body in doing so? notice a few things, when Zeno appears the Zamasu faces in the sky keep on laughing, with no concern about Zeno. and then when Zeno wipes out the multiverse, he says "a world like this must disappear." that kinda sounds like something Zamasu would say doesn't it?

couple this with the very bizarre and abrupt ending we saw to that arc, and the fact that they specifically bring Future Zeno to the present. seems like an odd decision that wouldn't have much plot significance on its own. then lets fast forward to the new arc, in the new opening one of the Zenos is blue and the other is red, implying symbolically that one is good and one is evil... and when they cross over each other, for just a moment they are green. why would they be green?

and now for some actual behavioural stuff, in the first episode of the new arc we see the Future Zeno behaving oddly, for no apparent reason he seems to keep trying to imitate the other Zeno, when the other Zeno raises his hand the future one sort of mimics this after accidentally doing something different. this is weird, it's not comedic in nature, and every thing they choose to animate has to have some sort of reason for it right?

then there's the universal destruction rule. what if that rule is really Zamasu in Zeno's body continuing with the Zero Mortals Plan?

while I'm not entirely convinced of this theory yet, if they ever show the future Zeno insisting on the destruction rule that would be very suspicious...

theory courtesy of Geeklist TV on YouTube.

[Reploid Productions]

cool theory I heard somewhere

what if the future Zeno is actually Zamasu?

sounds kinda crazy right? but think about it... Zamasu was becoming one with the universe, he had attained some incorporeal transcendent form, who's to say he could not have taken over the Omniking's body in doing so? notice a few things, when Zeno appears the Zamasu faces in the sky keep on laughing, with no concern about Zeno. and then when Zeno wipes out the multiverse, he says "a world like this must disappear." that kinda sounds like something Zamasu would say doesn't it?

couple this with the very bizarre and abrupt ending we saw to that arc, and the fact that they specifically bring Future Zeno to the present. seems like an odd decision that wouldn't have much plot significance on its own. then lets fast forward to the new arc, in the new opening one of the Zenos is blue and the other is red, implying symbolically that one is good and one is evil... and when they cross over each other, for just a moment they are green. why would they be green?

and now for some actual behavioural stuff, in the first episode of the new arc we see the Future Zeno behaving oddly, for no apparent reason he seems to keep trying to imitate the other Zeno, when the other Zeno raises his hand the future one sort of mimics this after accidentally doing something different. this is weird, it's not comedic in nature, and every thing they choose to animate has to have some sort of reason for it right?

then there's the universal destruction rule. what if that rule is really Zamasu in Zeno's body continuing with the Zero Mortals Plan?

while I'm not entirely convinced of this theory yet, if they ever show the future Zeno insisting on the destruction rule that would be very suspicious...

theory courtesy of Geeklist TV on YouTube.

It's certainly possible. Or at least that Zamasu managed to corrupt or otherwise influence future Zen-Oh before he was wiped entirely from existence. Way too early to say for sure at this point- it could also be that it was a throwaway gag to resolve the whole "Goku promised to bring present Zen-Oh another friend to play with" from way back at the beginning of the arc, too. Same with the mimicry- it could be foreshadowing of something more sinister, or it could be a throwaway gag as well.

I think a lot of it really comes down to Zen-Oh just being so alien an entity that it really defies comprehension. The little guy is effectively the most adorable eldritch horror ever, with little understanding and no empathy whatsoever for the lives of mere mortals, or even the various deities that answer to him given his already-known destruction of multiple universes apparently on a lark, and casually using entire planets as galactic marbles when Goku arrived to ask about the tournament. I doubt he has any real concept of friendship, and views Goku as little more than a particularly amusing toy... and like any sociopathic, incomprehensible child, toys get broken.

[Finland SSR]

New poll.

[Reploid Productions]

New poll.

Needs to allow for peeps to vote for multiple options. There's like two options I could pick and I can't decide which one to pick.