Star Wars: Debate Thread

[Bearon]

Sith do not lose energy faster then the Jedi. Dooku has dueled multiple opponents on several different occasions and has handled them easily even though Makashi isn't especially suited for fighting multiple opponents. Palpatine feigned weakness so he could draw Anakin to the Dark Side and while I'm willing to admit Windu had a large amp for that fight that allowed him to be near Palpatine's level Palpatine could have ended the fight with the force anytime he wanted as seen in the scene where he did just that with Sith Lightning. The degradation of his face was him taking the mask he used while Chancellor off not because he was harmed in any way.



I can link a post I stumbled upon a while back that might help clear up the Windu and Sidious fight I'll post it in just a moment.

Now as for primes Dooku is still in his prime around 80 because his force powers had grown significantly by that point and any physical failings he could shore up well enough with the force. As it was Dooku trained Grievous and is has been stated through multiple sources that Grievous could never land a blow on Dooku and Grievous is able to land 200 strikes per second. Mace Windu when fighting Grievous on a maglev whilst having the advantage of movement while Grievous was rooted to his own spot by his own magnetics Mace dueled with Grievous and was unable to land a single blow. Dooku managing to beat Grievous easily and Mace not even landing a blow when the cyborg couldn't even land a blow shows a lot when it comes to the gap in their skill I think.

I know they don't lose it faster than jedi but they need to focuse on anger. I have read EU stuff about sith being happy and not being able to use the force and using sith alchemy to sustain health causing serious tiring

I believe the word you're looking for is degradation though this doesn't really apply to the fight as Dooku has not used Sith Alchemy to prolong his own life and he has plenty of dark emotions to draw from though he remains calm outwardly so Mace's Vaapad would not be able to take advantage of any emotional outbursts as he would with Skywalker.

[Bearon]

Any idea when the poll should end guys?

[The Romulan Republic]

Any idea when the poll should end guys?

I think a week is a good run for a poll.

[Bearon]

Any idea when the poll should end guys?

I think a week is a good run for a poll.

Sounds good.

[Bearon]

I think I'll end the poll in the next 2 days. I don't want this thread to become *gasp* inactive.

[CTALNH]

Black guard for life.

[Bearon]

Black guard for life.

Hmmm?

[Idzequitch]

I think I'll end the poll in the next 2 days. I don't want this thread to become *gasp* inactive.

I agree. I don't think we'll get any more discussion on the subject of Windu vs Tyranus.

[Brillnuck]

Introduction

Hello all! I've noticed that though there is a thread for Star Wars as is in these forums there is no specific battle or debate thread for them which is why I'm creating this one. A vote will be held for the characters that had been previously debated between the participants of the thread. New votes and battles will be held after the previous battle and vote has been decided upon. New battles and votes will be put up based off the suggestions posted in the thread. The most up voted suggestion will become the next battle and poll. An Archive will be set up which will list all the battles that have taken place throughout the lifetime of this thread and the winners of said fight. To prevent puppets from being flooded into the thread I'll only be counting the votes of long time posters or WA nations. All EU feats are applicable and all characters are in their prime unless otherwise stated in the suggestion.

Battle Archive

Dooku vs Mace Windu.

Image Archive

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ ... 5j174x.jpg
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/ori ... _windu.jpg

Mace Windu used Vaapaad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad), while Dooku used Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Makashi) which is why Dooku had a curved lightsaber.

As for saying who would win, I think Windu would win. Vaapaad is similar to Juyo. Dooku however was mainly good in Makashi. In a duel, I think Dooku would start out good, but Windu would just use Vaapaad to wear him down.

Dooku could just use force lightning against him, but Mace would deflect. Overall, I think Windu would win. He'd just use Vaapaad against Dooku who mainly used Makashi.

[Idzequitch]

Introduction

Hello all! I've noticed that though there is a thread for Star Wars as is in these forums there is no specific battle or debate thread for them which is why I'm creating this one. A vote will be held for the characters that had been previously debated between the participants of the thread. New votes and battles will be held after the previous battle and vote has been decided upon. New battles and votes will be put up based off the suggestions posted in the thread. The most up voted suggestion will become the next battle and poll. An Archive will be set up which will list all the battles that have taken place throughout the lifetime of this thread and the winners of said fight. To prevent puppets from being flooded into the thread I'll only be counting the votes of long time posters or WA nations. All EU feats are applicable and all characters are in their prime unless otherwise stated in the suggestion.

Battle Archive

Dooku vs Mace Windu.

Image Archive

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ ... 5j174x.jpg
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/ori ... _windu.jpg

Mace Windu used Vaapaad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad), while Dooku used Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Makashi) which is why Dooku had a curved lightsaber.

As for saying who would win, I think Windu would win. Vaapaad is similar to Juyo. Dooku however was mainly good in Makashi. In a duel, I think Dooku would start out good, but Windu would just use Vaapaad to wear him down.

Dooku could just use force lightning against him, but Mace would deflect. Overall, I think Windu would win. He'd just use Vaapaad against Dooku who mainly used Makashi.

Well look who came in to prove me wrong!
Anyway, I agree with you. I would argue that Windu has the advantage in swordsmanship, while Dooku has superior Force powers. Windu seems capable enough of defending himself from the Force attacks, so he would eventually overwhelm Dooku with his lightsaber.

[Bearon]

I think I'll end the poll in the next 2 days. I don't want this thread to become *gasp* inactive.

I agree. I don't think we'll get any more discussion on the subject of Windu vs Tyranus.

Well we could but it appears nobody wants to.

Introduction

Hello all! I've noticed that though there is a thread for Star Wars as is in these forums there is no specific battle or debate thread for them which is why I'm creating this one. A vote will be held for the characters that had been previously debated between the participants of the thread. New votes and battles will be held after the previous battle and vote has been decided upon. New battles and votes will be put up based off the suggestions posted in the thread. The most up voted suggestion will become the next battle and poll. An Archive will be set up which will list all the battles that have taken place throughout the lifetime of this thread and the winners of said fight. To prevent puppets from being flooded into the thread I'll only be counting the votes of long time posters or WA nations. All EU feats are applicable and all characters are in their prime unless otherwise stated in the suggestion.

Battle Archive

Dooku vs Mace Windu.

Image Archive

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ ... 5j174x.jpg
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/ori ... _windu.jpg

Mace Windu used Vaapaad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad), while Dooku used Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Makashi) which is why Dooku had a curved lightsaber.

As for saying who would win, I think Windu would win. Vaapaad is similar to Juyo. Dooku however was mainly good in Makashi. In a duel, I think Dooku would start out good, but Windu would just use Vaapaad to wear him down.

Dooku could just use force lightning against him, but Mace would deflect. Overall, I think Windu would win. He'd just use Vaapaad against Dooku who mainly used Makashi.

Actually it's not why Dooku used a curved hilt. It was a gift from Sidious and it was Ka'sim's old Lightsaber which Ka'sim gifted to Bane who passed it down the Sith line. It gave Dooku more options of course but a skilled master like Windu would be able to see through any trick Dooku would attempt to apply with an unorthodox Lightsaber. Vaapad is not similar to Juyo it's actually the exact opposite of Juyo though it required a similar mind set before becoming a conduit and letting the light flow through you and being on the cusp of the Dark Side. Juyo is about embracing the dark side and your aggression fully. I'm not seeing your point about wearing him down? Dooku has fought multiple opponents who have used Juyo themselves in the past and managed to come out of the fight without a scratch and not even winded. The form advantage just isn't there. I agree that force powers won't be a large factor here but Mace could eventually tire after having to deflect multiple large objects and Dooku has been shown to be much better in Telekinesis then Mace himself has.

[Bearon]

I see the votes now 5-9 which is slightly encouraging. At least Dooku won't lose the vote in a stomp.

[Brillnuck]

Mace Windu used Vaapaad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad), while Dooku used Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Makashi) which is why Dooku had a curved lightsaber.

As for saying who would win, I think Windu would win. Vaapaad is similar to Juyo. Dooku however was mainly good in Makashi. In a duel, I think Dooku would start out good, but Windu would just use Vaapaad to wear him down.

Dooku could just use force lightning against him, but Mace would deflect. Overall, I think Windu would win. He'd just use Vaapaad against Dooku who mainly used Makashi.

Well look who came in to prove me wrong!
Anyway, I agree with you. I would argue that Windu has the advantage in swordsmanship, while Dooku has superior Force powers. Windu seems capable enough of defending himself from the Force attacks, so he would eventually overwhelm Dooku with his lightsaber.

Mhm. Referring to Episode III, the only thing that kept Windu alive (before Anakin stormed in and killed Windu) to battle Sidious was Vaapaad. The rest didn't use Vaapaad, and were quickly killed. Vaapaad is a lot like Juyo. It was taught only to a select few (as it drew padawans close to the dark side, and they could be easily converted).

As for the next poll, how about Revan vs Luke Skywalker. (If you don't know who Revan is, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan) or "The Infinite Empire (Pre-Infection and loss of the force) vs The Galactic Empire".

[Bearon]

Mace Windu used Vaapaad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad), while Dooku used Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Makashi) which is why Dooku had a curved lightsaber.

As for saying who would win, I think Windu would win. Vaapaad is similar to Juyo. Dooku however was mainly good in Makashi. In a duel, I think Dooku would start out good, but Windu would just use Vaapaad to wear him down.

Dooku could just use force lightning against him, but Mace would deflect. Overall, I think Windu would win. He'd just use Vaapaad against Dooku who mainly used Makashi.

Well look who came in to prove me wrong!
Anyway, I agree with you. I would argue that Windu has the advantage in swordsmanship, while Dooku has superior Force powers. Windu seems capable enough of defending himself from the Force attacks, so he would eventually overwhelm Dooku with his lightsaber.

I agree that Mace could defend himself against force attacks but its arguable that he wouldn't be weakened by this but I have to disagree when you say that Mace would overwhelm him in Lightsaber combat. I mean Dooku has been shown to be the more skilled duelist or at least on par. It's even been stated that when Dooku and Mace dueled they both won and lost to each other or ended up stalemating. It's close but shouldn't Dooku's superior force powers give him the edge against an opponent he's shown to be on par with?

Well look who came in to prove me wrong!
Anyway, I agree with you. I would argue that Windu has the advantage in swordsmanship, while Dooku has superior Force powers. Windu seems capable enough of defending himself from the Force attacks, so he would eventually overwhelm Dooku with his lightsaber.

Mhm. Referring to Episode III, the only thing that kept Windu alive (before Anakin stormed in and killed Windu) to battle Sidious was Vaapaad. The rest didn't use Vaapaad, and were quickly killed. Vaapaad is a lot like Juyo. It was taught only to a select few (as it drew padawans close to the dark side, and they could be easily converted).

As for the next poll, how about Revan vs Luke Skywalker. (If you don't know who Revan is, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan) or "The Infinite Empire (Pre-Infection and loss of the force) vs The Galactic Empire".

Exactly Mace was able to channel the fear within Sidious which wasn't Sidious's fear at all. It was Anakin and Mace using shatter point didn't recognize this until the very end. The others however skilled they were fell easily to Palpatine because that's just how powerful he was. Mace because of his form was able to survive and keep up but Sidious could have ended the fight any time with force powers. He waited for Anakin to arrive so he could orchestrate his fall to the Dark Side. An add on to what you said about Vaapad users. It's impressive that Mace so successfully wielded this form because all others who tried simply fell to the Dark Side and ended up using Juyo.

I know who Revan is and though he's powerful he's not a reasonable match for Luke Skywalker. Honestly nobody is as Luke is canonly the most powerful force user in galactic history.

[Brillnuck]

I know who Revan is and though he's powerful he's not a reasonable match for Luke Skywalker. Honestly nobody is as Luke is canonly the most powerful force user in galactic history.

I'm a Revan Fanboy (an proud of it), but I'm not one of those who say "omg! revan waz da b0ss and wuld beet looke skiwalker!". Luke was pretty powerful (NJO Luke, not Pre-NJO), Revan however was among the greatest. But Luke would definitely beat Revan. Just look at when Revan knocked out (during the Jedi Civil War) and the duel in SWTOR on the foundry.

Luke is the god of Star Wars, while Revan is powerful, he isn't god-level powerful.

[Bearon]

I'm a Revan Fanboy (an proud of it), but I'm not one of those who say "omg! revan waz da great3st and wuld beet looke skiwalker!". Luke was pretty powerful (NJO Luke, not Pre-NJO), Revan however was among the greatest. But Luke would definitely beat Revan. Just look at when Revan knocked out (during the Jedi Civil War) and the duel in SWTOR on the foundry.

Luke is the god of Star Wars, while Revan is powerful, he isn't god-level powerful.

I believe that Luke would lose in his ANH and ESB version and that RotJ would be a good fight but ultimately Luke would come out the victor. Every version of Luke after that is simply not a contest. I do believe however people underrate Revan a lot now that he has actual canonical feats.

[Bearon]

I'll end this poll at 12:00 A.M. Saturday.

[CTALNH]

Black guard for life.

Hmmm?

A order of sith that believe to become closer with the force you need to understand all other dogmas and philosophies and hand pick their best qualities to incorporate into the Black guards teachings.

[Bearon]

Hmmm?

A order of sith that believe to become closer with the force you need to understand all other dogmas and philosophies and hand pick their best qualities to incorporate into the Black guards teachings.

I've read nearly every source of EU and haven't heard of them. Or maybe I have? Which book do they appear in?

[CTALNH]

A order of sith that believe to become closer with the force you need to understand all other dogmas and philosophies and hand pick their best qualities to incorporate into the Black guards teachings.

I've read nearly every source of EU and haven't heard of them. Or maybe I have? Which book do they appear in?

They appear in a video game.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blackguard

[Bearon]

I've read nearly every source of EU and haven't heard of them. Or maybe I have? Which book do they appear in?

They appear in a video game.

Then I haven't. I'm too poor to get every video game.

[CTALNH]

They appear in a video game.

Then I haven't. I'm too poor to get every video game.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blackguard

[The Sotoan Union]

If Mace Windu could beat Palpatine in a lightsaber fight, he could probably beat Dooku.

[Bearon]

If Mace Windu could beat Palpatine in a lightsaber fight, he could probably beat Dooku.

But he was ridiculously amped for that fight and Sidious simply played with him until Anakin arrived. Also Mace couldn't land a blow on Grievous and when Dooku was still in the Order he was Mace's better or equal. So take that as you will.

[Jetan]

I will say only this:Disney will ruin Star Wars.

Yeah, just like they ruined all the other franchises they bought that are now hugely successful.
I mean, just look at Marvel. It's in shambles!

Yeah, because Marvel too had something like 90%+ of it's material de-canonized in an instant because Disney is too lazy to make the new stuff fit the old stuff. Oh wait...