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Female protagonists in media

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:55 pm

I honestly enjoy both female and male protagonists in media pretty much equally, which is why current problems with female representation in art and entertainment trouble me.

I loved playing a female Shepard in the Mass Effect trilogy.
I played a male Miqo'te in the beta for Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn.
I loved playing as Amaterasu in Okami.
I loved playing as Dante in Devil May Cry 3.
As far as books are concerned, I haven't read that many with female protagonists, due in no small part to the fact that above-average high fantasy has a serious shortage of those, but Arya and Sansa Stark, and Margaery and Olenna Tyrell, are amongst my favourite characters in the Song of Ice and Fire series.
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Theatre? I'm male, but I'd happily play the part of Joanne in Stephen Sondheim's Company, because that character is my favourite.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:58 pm

Liriena wrote:Sansa Stark

God, finally someone agrees that Sansa is bloody awesome.

Thank you, Liri.
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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:58 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
Giovenith wrote:Do you prefer them solely because they're male, or because you think males tend to be written better?


Because they are male.


It can be sexist, yes, though it depends. Do you just feel that you can better step into the shoes of a character with the same gender as you?[/quote]

No not necessarily, I just generally tend to avoid reading or watching female lead production. It doesn't mean I like all male leads btw.

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:01 pm

Arglorand wrote:
Liriena wrote:Sansa Stark

God, finally someone agrees that Sansa is bloody awesome.

Thank you, Liri.

People seem to miss the many moments where she displays a remarkable skill at manipulating people that are sprinkled throughout the series. She may not be a Tyrell, but she's quite cunning when she wants to be.
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Political compass stuff:
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For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:01 pm

Liriena wrote:
Arglorand wrote:God, finally someone agrees that Sansa is bloody awesome.

Thank you, Liri.

People seem to miss the many moments where she displays a remarkable skill at manipulating people that are sprinkled throughout the series. She may not be a Tyrell, but she's quite cunning when she wants to be.


I guess in the book she's compelling but in the HBO series... gods, I can't stand Sansa Stark.
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:05 pm

Liriena wrote:
Arglorand wrote:God, finally someone agrees that Sansa is bloody awesome.

Thank you, Liri.

People seem to miss the many moments where she displays a remarkable skill at manipulating people that are sprinkled throughout the series. She may not be a Tyrell, but she's quite cunning when she wants to be.

I actually feel for her in the cases when she's just plainly suffering, too, because... idunno, Sansa just evokes a lot of empathy and sympathy from me. Maybe because for someone who was betrayed by everyone and who lost virtually and effectively everyone close to her she's still pretty damn unbroken.
Last edited by Arglorand on Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:05 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:People seem to miss the many moments where she displays a remarkable skill at manipulating people that are sprinkled throughout the series. She may not be a Tyrell, but she's quite cunning when she wants to be.


I guess in the book she's compelling but in the HBO series... gods, I can't stand Sansa Stark.

Stannis eclipses all other characters.
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Solaray
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Postby Solaray » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm

I'm sort of the same way. Not that I don't like female protagonists, nor do I have anything against women's rights and empower, I just happen to inherently prefer male characters. Why? I have no idea.

But yeah it is basically sexist.
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:08 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I guess in the book she's compelling but in the HBO series... gods, I can't stand Sansa Stark.

Stannis eclipses all other characters.

In that only one look at him makes you go, "No, anyone, please, ANYONE but this guy."
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:08 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I guess in the book she's compelling but in the HBO series... gods, I can't stand Sansa Stark.

Stannis eclipses all other characters.


Can't say. :p

I've been told however that Sansa's character evolves emotionally whereas Arya's doesn't. Is this true?
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:09 pm

Arglorand wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Stannis eclipses all other characters.

In that only one look at him makes you go, "No, anyone, please, ANYONE but this guy."

No, Stannis is amazing. Want him on the Iron Throne. Bend the knee or be destroyed.
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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:23 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
Vamtrl wrote:
Because they are male.


It can be sexist, yes, though it depends. Do you just feel that you can better step into the shoes of a character with the same gender as you?


No not necessarily, I just generally tend to avoid reading or watching female lead production. It doesn't mean I like all male leads btw.[/quote]

Then perhaps you need to be a bit more open.
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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:30 pm

It depends on the writer. Women generally aren't that good at writing books with a male as the main character (see: harry potter & the goblet of fire and the books after), and men generally aren't that good at writing from a female perspective.

In other media, it usually doesn't matter, though.
Last edited by Othelos on Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Othelos wrote:It depends on the writer. Women generally aren't that good at writing books with a male as the main character (see: harry potter & the goblet of fire and the books after), and men generally aren't that good at writing from a female perspective.

In other media, it usually doesn't matter, though.

You did not just bash Harry Potter.

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The 54th Squadron
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Postby The 54th Squadron » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:37 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes, obviously.


But I am all about female empowerment and equal rights.


After saying you prefer a male protagonist? Quit lying to yourself.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:43 pm

Othelos wrote:It depends on the writer. Women generally aren't that good at writing books with a male as the main character (see: harry potter & the goblet of fire and the books after), and men generally aren't that good at writing from a female perspective.

In other media, it usually doesn't matter, though.

Yo! >:(

Granted, I think even J.K. Rowling agrees that Ginny was not a good choice for Harry's love interest. :P
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Postby Nazi Flower Power » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:53 pm

Vamtrl wrote:Whether its a book or a movie, I prefer to have a male protagonist. Its not even about connecting with them, I just like it that way. Does this view make me a sexist?

Edit: Thank you Ifreann


Yes, but not necessarily an extreme one.

It's not very useful to just categorize people sexist or not sexist. Some people are mildly sexist. Others are off the deep end batshit insane sexist. They are not all equally bad.
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Cyrisnia
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Postby Cyrisnia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:54 pm

We need more.
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:54 pm

I've never had any trouble relating to or appreciating a female protagonist, even though I'm male. Hell, it's actually a character decision I like more than a male protagonist in the same situation. I was always more of a Xena/Slayers/Honor-Harrington fan, for instance over Hercules/He-Man/Captain-Kirk person, despite the premises of the stories and the characters being very similar.

A different gender as a main character just never bothered me, and I can't see why it would. Men and women really aren't that different, all things considered. It stands to reason any work not focused around aspects of that gender would be fully accessible and easily appreciated by the other gender (obviously this excludes stories related to gender specific issues like periods or nocturnal emissions, but I have yet to encounter very many stories wherein that plays much of any kind of a role. In fact, I haven't encountered any.)
Last edited by Occupied Deutschland on Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The 54th Squadron
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Postby The 54th Squadron » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:55 pm

Cyrisnia wrote:We need more.


We need more kinkier women, especially when they fight.
Legalize owning RPG's and nuclear weapons, reinstate hanging, add in burning meat grinders, stop giving shits for airplane crashes, shut the fuck up about banning guns, the south will NOT rise again, you are just ignorant, look down on the poor, modify genetics so fat kids taste like bacon, cats are better than dogs, if you don't like what's going on in the middle east, fix it yourself, Obama is a good president, just a bad Congress, MLP is a kickass show.

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Russian Socialist Soviet States
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Postby Russian Socialist Soviet States » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:59 pm

It doesn't make you sexist.
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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:30 pm

I don't care who the main protagonist is as long as it doesn't turn into harem.
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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:31 pm

Liriena wrote:
Othelos wrote:It depends on the writer. Women generally aren't that good at writing books with a male as the main character (see: harry potter & the goblet of fire and the books after), and men generally aren't that good at writing from a female perspective.

In other media, it usually doesn't matter, though.

Yo! >:(

Granted, I think even J.K. Rowling agrees that Ginny was not a good choice for Harry's love interest. :P

Oh, I didn't mean that the books were bad (they were all really good), but sometimes harry was a little too emotional. lol
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Greater Israelia
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Postby Greater Israelia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:33 pm

Why do we need female protagonists?

Answer: we don't.
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Postby Forsher » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:33 pm

Vamtrl wrote:Whether its a book or a movie, I prefer to have a male protagonist. Its not even about connecting with them, I just like it that way. Does this view make me a sexist?


Yes. I would be more hesitant about describing a tendency to like male protagonists more having read/seen whatever it is as there are more factors but the way I understand this situation you look at a story and you'd rather it has a male protagonist than a female without having read/seen it.

As to whether female protagonists tend to be written more poorly? I'm not sure... it probably depends on the genre and text type.

Othelos wrote:
Liriena wrote:Yo! >:(

Granted, I think even J.K. Rowling agrees that Ginny was not a good choice for Harry's love interest. :P

Oh, I didn't mean that the books were bad (they were all really good), but sometimes harry was a little too emotional. lol


People have emotions and his life was pretty screwed up. Really it makes perfect sense.
Last edited by Forsher on Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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