Wargaming.net Mega-thread, part 2 (WoT, WoWP, WoWS)

[Hurdegaryp]

Stronk French Barn! Pride of the French Proletariat indeed! As it is made from 100% Thorezium, the superior element to Stalinium.

I always thought it looks like a garden shed with a chimney...

When equipped with its first turret, the ARL 44 pretty much looks like an Orkish combat vehicle. Maybe you need to paint the stock ARL 44 red, that way it might go faster.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Stronk French Barn! Pride of the French Proletariat indeed! As it is made from 100% Thorezium, the superior element to Stalinium.

I always thought it looks like a garden shed with a chimney...

Comrade Tagmatium, you have failed in your glorious task of supporting the french proletariat by insulting the best turret in the world! Made by the proud workers of the Paris and Marseilles production lines.

For your treason you must be shot, please report to your local commissariat office in the next four hours or you will be face a penalty.

I always thought it looks like a garden shed with a chimney...

When equipped with its first turret, the ARL 44 pretty much looks like an Orkish combat vehicle. Maybe you need to paint the stock ARL 44 red, that way it might go faster.

I approve wholeheartedly. About the painting of the colour red, however..

For you insinuation that the mighty Stronk ARL 44 could look like a primitive ork vehicle you have failed in your duties. Please also report to your local commissariat office for immediate shooting.


Though the turret is shit.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

I think the stock turret looks cute. It is like barn. Stronk French Barn. Pride of the French Proletariat. Soviet proletariat is jealous of French barn.

It'll also be what you get when WG eventually adds in the only super heavy tanks that were actually built with a French super heavy tank line, but that'll probably be in 2074 after they added in the AMX-30 in 2073 in patch 9.99998947, 6 decades late. The ARL stock turret was after all, the turret on the FCM F1 proposal with the 90mm version of it. Hopefully it won't be quite as weak on the FCM F1, although no doubt Wargaming will decide that clearly aiming for the secondary turret in the front is too hard anyway.

On the ARL 44, either the 90mm DCA 45 or the 105mm. I personally currently use the 105mm for the higher alpha/better DPM, but the 90mm is a good choice too. I used it for a long time. Just use either one.

I tried out the 105 mm myself on the AMX M4 45, but I didn't really like it. Also keep in mind that the DCA 45 is a tier VIII gun, which is quite the advantage when driving a tier VI heavy. You will meet tier VIII tanks in battle, best to have something on board that actually is capable of penetrating them.

The 105mm can do well enough in tier 8 though. Most tanks can be met with 165mm (Or was it 163mm...?) or penetration easily enough, and the 223mm penetration gold rounds do for the rest. It isn't as easy, but provided aiming at the weak spots is done then it can go efficiently. On the AMX M4 45 however, the 105mm is bad. It is a tier higher, has less armor, is just barely more mobile, and you can only make it work by spamming gold. But then the AMX M4 45 is mostly just an inferior ARL 44 in my opinion.

[Tagmatium]

I always thought it looks like a garden shed with a chimney...

Comrade Tagmatium, you have failed in your glorious task of supporting the french proletariat by insulting the best turret in the world! Made by the proud workers of the Paris and Marseilles production lines.

For your treason you must be shot, please report to your local commissariat office in the next four hours or you will be face a penalty.

Pfft.

As an Englishman, I trump that shit by saying "Waterloo".

And my H35 "Ouragan" is one of my favourite tanks

That little French bastard has some incredibly epic games.

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

Are any of you guys playing the Stronghold mode? How are things going for you? Anyone wanted to kick a clan mate due to nooby play?

[United Kingdom of Poland]

Are any of you guys playing the Stronghold mode? How are things going for you? Anyone wanted to kick a clan mate due to nooby play?

I'm more pissed at the general rommels who think a Churchill 7 should be knife fighting a KV-1S

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Are any of you guys playing the Stronghold mode? How are things going for you? Anyone wanted to kick a clan mate due to nooby play?

I'm more pissed at the general rommels who think a Churchill 7 should be knife fighting a KV-1S

I'm pissed at at the general rommels who think that a Churchill VII should ever be used outside of grinding to the Black Prince. The whole selling point of the tank is its frontal armour but because the armour behind its tracks is less than its frontal hull and turret armour (I think it is like 90 or 100 mm or something) you can just shoot at its tracks when facing it head on and ignore the great armour. Besides that its gun is pretty much the same as a Churchill I so its penetration is meh, its damage is crap now that you are starting to face heavies with 88, 90, and 122 mm guns, and DPM is hardly reliable especially against multiple opponents when you can't afford to rush them to prevent them from peekabooing.

Honestly the Churchill VII was the biggest disappointment I have ever played, I wanted to like it, I thought it was one of the best looking tanks, only the Black Prince, and Tiger II were really as cool looking to me, I wanted to like its rapid fire gun and really thick turret armour for its tier, but it just shits everywhere. Honestly boost the armour behind the tracks to 152 mm and give the 77 mm HV like 155-160 mm penetration (and possibly lower the 75 HV to like 140 mm pen) and I would like it fine.

[Kassaran]

I thought it was one of the best looking tanks, only the Black Prince, and Tiger II were really as cool looking to me

You don't know jack about Beauty.

'Murica!

[United Kingdom of Poland]

I'm more pissed at the general rommels who think a Churchill 7 should be knife fighting a KV-1S

I'm pissed at at the general rommels who think that a Churchill VII should ever be used outside of grinding to the Black Prince. The whole selling point of the tank is its frontal armour but because the armour behind its tracks is less than its frontal hull and turret armour (I think it is like 90 or 100 mm or something) you can just shoot at its tracks when facing it head on and ignore the great armour. Besides that its gun is pretty much the same as a Churchill I so its penetration is meh, its damage is crap now that you are starting to face heavies with 88, 90, and 122 mm guns, and DPM is hardly reliable especially against multiple opponents when you can't afford to rush them to prevent them from peekabooing.

Honestly the Churchill VII was the biggest disappointment I have ever played, I wanted to like it, I thought it was one of the best looking tanks, only the Black Prince, and Tiger II were really as cool looking to me, I wanted to like its rapid fire gun and really thick turret armour for its tier, but it just shits everywhere. Honestly boost the armour behind the tracks to 152 mm and give the 77 mm HV like 155-160 mm penetration (and possibly lower the 75 HV to like 140 mm pen) and I would like it fine.

I actually use it more as a TD and find it pretty good. its fun to remind KV-1S that yes the commanders hatch exists on your tank and no: just because you cant hit it to save your life doesn't mean no one else can.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

I'm pissed at at the general rommels who think that a Churchill VII should ever be used outside of grinding to the Black Prince. The whole selling point of the tank is its frontal armour but because the armour behind its tracks is less than its frontal hull and turret armour (I think it is like 90 or 100 mm or something) you can just shoot at its tracks when facing it head on and ignore the great armour. Besides that its gun is pretty much the same as a Churchill I so its penetration is meh, its damage is crap now that you are starting to face heavies with 88, 90, and 122 mm guns, and DPM is hardly reliable especially against multiple opponents when you can't afford to rush them to prevent them from peekabooing.

Honestly the Churchill VII was the biggest disappointment I have ever played, I wanted to like it, I thought it was one of the best looking tanks, only the Black Prince, and Tiger II were really as cool looking to me, I wanted to like its rapid fire gun and really thick turret armour for its tier, but it just shits everywhere. Honestly boost the armour behind the tracks to 152 mm and give the 77 mm HV like 155-160 mm penetration (and possibly lower the 75 HV to like 140 mm pen) and I would like it fine.

I actually use it more as a TD and find it pretty good. its fun to remind KV-1S that yes the commanders hatch exists on your tank and no: just because you cant hit it to save your life doesn't mean no one else can.

What idiot aims for the commander's hatch? Aim for the tracks if you are facing it head on you can strip HP that way and it only has like 100 mm armour protecting the hull behind the tracks. I think it may be less since IIRC I once killed one from the front with my M7. I love the churchill line, the Churchill I only really has to compete with the KV-1 for best heavy of its tier with its high pen gun allowing it to compete in higher tiers rather well, the Churchill III has great pen as well and makes up for what it loses with a great RoF, the Black Prince is my favourite tank all around with better turret armour than an American heavy with a lower profile, more health, and a higher rate of fire, the Churchill VII however doesn't feel like an upgrade the only thing that is noticeably better is its turret, which isn't enough at tier VI let alone VII and VIII when you have your wide ass tracks as a giant frontal weak spot.

http://gamemodels3d.com/worldoftanks/vehicles/b18
remove the suspension and look at the crippling frontal weak spot. 60 mm of armour, sure like 2/3rds of it is angled but even with the angle it is only like 95 mm, most tier V mediums can pen it from the front and give it hull damage, and since it also has the benefit of damaging the tracks they can't escape once you start shooting them there. This weakness doesn't exist one the BP or Churchill I or III where the armour behind the tracks is the same as the armour on the frontal hull that is visible.

[United Kingdom of Poland]

I actually use it more as a TD and find it pretty good. its fun to remind KV-1S that yes the commanders hatch exists on your tank and no: just because you cant hit it to save your life doesn't mean no one else can.

What idiot aims for the commander's hatch? Aim for the tracks if you are facing it head on you can strip HP that way and it only has like 100 mm armour protecting the hull behind the tracks. I think it may be less since IIRC I once killed one from the front with my M7. I love the churchill line, the Churchill I only really has to compete with the KV-1 for best heavy of its tier with its high pen gun allowing it to compete in higher tiers rather well, the Churchill III has great pen as well and makes up for what it loses with a great RoF, the Black Prince is my favourite tank all around with better turret armour than an American heavy with a lower profile, more health, and a higher rate of fire, the Churchill VII however doesn't feel like an upgrade the only thing that is noticeably better is its turret, which isn't enough at tier VI let alone VII and VIII when you have your wide ass tracks as a giant frontal weak spot.

http://gamemodels3d.com/worldoftanks/vehicles/b18
remove the suspension and look at the crippling frontal weak spot. 60 mm of armour, sure like 2/3rds of it is angled but even with the angle it is only like 95 mm, most tier V mediums can pen it from the front and give it hull damage, and since it also has the benefit of damaging the tracks they can't escape once you start shooting them there. This weakness doesn't exist one the BP or Churchill I or III where the armour behind the tracks is the same as the armour on the frontal hull that is visible.

remember though, we're above average in intelligence. We aim for weak spots, most just rely on shear derp to get them through.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

What idiot aims for the commander's hatch? Aim for the tracks if you are facing it head on you can strip HP that way and it only has like 100 mm armour protecting the hull behind the tracks. I think it may be less since IIRC I once killed one from the front with my M7. I love the churchill line, the Churchill I only really has to compete with the KV-1 for best heavy of its tier with its high pen gun allowing it to compete in higher tiers rather well, the Churchill III has great pen as well and makes up for what it loses with a great RoF, the Black Prince is my favourite tank all around with better turret armour than an American heavy with a lower profile, more health, and a higher rate of fire, the Churchill VII however doesn't feel like an upgrade the only thing that is noticeably better is its turret, which isn't enough at tier VI let alone VII and VIII when you have your wide ass tracks as a giant frontal weak spot.

http://gamemodels3d.com/worldoftanks/vehicles/b18
remove the suspension and look at the crippling frontal weak spot. 60 mm of armour, sure like 2/3rds of it is angled but even with the angle it is only like 95 mm, most tier V mediums can pen it from the front and give it hull damage, and since it also has the benefit of damaging the tracks they can't escape once you start shooting them there. This weakness doesn't exist one the BP or Churchill I or III where the armour behind the tracks is the same as the armour on the frontal hull that is visible.

remember though, we're above average in intelligence. We aim for weak spots, most just rely on shear derp to get them through.

Eh, by tier VI most people understand to aim for weak spots and generally understand what a weak spot looks like even if they don't go out of their way to do research (hatches, view ports, a mini turret). Honestly it seems like enough people knew about the track weak spot to make driving the Churchill VII hell. If they ever fix than and especially if they make the 77 HV better I will gladly pick it up again. Still have my 100% crew in the barracks for that day.

[Hurdegaryp]

Are any of you guys playing the Stronghold mode? How are things going for you? Anyone wanted to kick a clan mate due to nooby play?

I'll have to start up my own clan in order to be able to play Stronghold. I also assume you need a minimum amount of players to make things work.

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

Are any of you guys playing the Stronghold mode? How are things going for you? Anyone wanted to kick a clan mate due to nooby play?

I'll have to start up my own clan in order to be able to play Stronghold. I also assume you need a minimum amount of players to make things work.

At least 7 in order to be able to play tier 6 skirmishes.

[Hurdegaryp]

I'll have to start up my own clan in order to be able to play Stronghold. I also assume you need a minimum amount of players to make things work.

At least 7 in order to be able to play tier 6 skirmishes.

So the thing to do is to start a clan, shanghai a few happy campers into joining the whole mess and build something resembling a base?

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

At least 7 in order to be able to play tier 6 skirmishes.

So the thing to do is to start a clan, shanghai a few happy campers into joining the whole mess and build something resembling a base?

Yup. The bonuses latter on are worth it. 50% more exp 50% more credits 100% more free exp and 100% more crew exp on level 10

[Licana]

Or, you know, just be a part of an active CW clan which will probably end up doing this anyway to give its members such massive benefits.

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

Or, you know, just be a part of an active CW clan which will probably end up doing this anyway to give its members such massive benefits.

Yeah. But still those are active for only 2 hours a time. As such you will need to play a lot of skirmishes in order to create those reserves.

[United Kingdom of Poland]

remember though, we're above average in intelligence. We aim for weak spots, most just rely on shear derp to get them through.

Eh, by tier VI most people understand to aim for weak spots and generally understand what a weak spot looks like even if they don't go out of their way to do research (hatches, view ports, a mini turret). Honestly it seems like enough people knew about the track weak spot to make driving the Churchill VII hell. If they ever fix than and especially if they make the 77 HV better I will gladly pick it up again. Still have my 100% crew in the barracks for that day.

really because no one in the NA server seems to realize that.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Eh, by tier VI most people understand to aim for weak spots and generally understand what a weak spot looks like even if they don't go out of their way to do research (hatches, view ports, a mini turret). Honestly it seems like enough people knew about the track weak spot to make driving the Churchill VII hell. If they ever fix than and especially if they make the 77 HV better I will gladly pick it up again. Still have my 100% crew in the barracks for that day.

really because no one in the NA server seems to realize that.

Did you actually play the Churchill VII? That tank was the worst grind ever and I loved its predecessors and successor (still unsure on the caernarvon, I need to wait until I get the top engine and 20 pdr to make a decision but it looks okay, like an uparmoured centurion).

[Revanchism]

really because no one in the NA server seems to realize that.

Did you actually play the Churchill VII? That tank was the worst grind ever and I loved its predecessors and successor (still unsure on the caernarvon, I need to wait until I get the top engine and 20 pdr to make a decision but it looks okay, like an uparmoured centurion).

Mildly uparmored while somehow being less maneuverable and slower.
It has the Type B 20 pdr, though, so even the gun is better than the Centurion.
Long story short, much like you said, it's okay. It's a better Centurion.

[Licana]

the churchill is a terrible tank even without that track weakspot, because it is a fat, slow tank with paper sides that relies on frontal armour for survival, and its frontal armour is entirely insufficient to protect against in-tier heavies and even some mediums. That's with AP, if your enemy has APCR then damn near anything you can face could potentially pen your front with no problems. Since you're too slow for manuever, your vision/camo is too poor for sniping games, and your alpha is so subpar that you can't even effectively trade with mediums, and its main gimmick doesn't even work, it literally fails across the board at everything.

In short, it's the perfect summary to the majority british tanks as a whole.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

the churchill is a terrible tank even without that track weakspot, because it is a fat, slow tank with paper sides that relies on frontal armour for survival, and its frontal armour is entirely insufficient to protect against in-tier heavies and even some mediums. That's with AP, if your enemy has APCR then damn near anything you can face could potentially pen your front with no problems. Since you're too slow for manuever, your vision/camo is too poor for sniping games, and your alpha is so subpar that you can't even effectively trade with mediums, and its main gimmick doesn't even work, it literally fails across the board at everything.

In short, it's the perfect summary to the majority british tanks as a whole.

Maybe if you can't angle or aim for weak spots it is entirely crap. If the frontal weak spot was fixed it would be a well protected (protects against all German heavy guns except the Waffe without angling, and due to its thick sides can angle its front 30 degrees and have 175 mm front and 190 mm side effective protection). Its sides are extremely well protected (95 mm sides is better than most tier VII heavies) making it a potentially effective sidescraper with its mid mounted turret, and if you are willing to use APCR you can fire almost 14 208 mm penetration rounds in a minute (ignoring >100% skill, tank rammer, and other stuff) meaning you can cripple tier VIII heavy tanks without worrying too much about weak spots.

Honestly in a fixed Churchill VII the only tanks in my own tier I would fear at all are KV-1S, TOGs, and maybe KV-2s. I know I could pen everything in my tier without too much trouble and with proper angling could resist pretty much any other gun without issue. Sure they scale poorly but that is a problem with all armour focused tanks, KV-4, Black Prince, AMX-40. Overall a fixed Churchill would pretty much be the same in tier VII and VIII matches as it is now, a second line tank that aims for tracks and weak spots in the hopes of inflicting module damage to weaken the tank for his allies to most likely kill.

[Licana]

Hmm, maybe I let my experience make me believe that it couldn't do angling due to weak side armour, instead of that track hitbox oddity. I see now, looking at the collision model, that I was wrong in that. That being said...

Maybe if you can't angle or aim for weak spots it is entirely crap. If the frontal weak spot was fixed it would be a well protected (protects against all German heavy guns except the Waffe without angling, and due to its thick sides can angle its front 30 degrees and have 175 mm front and 190 mm side effective protection).

This is technically false. There's still a frontal weakspot that p. much anything can penetrate (not the tracks) with or without APCR. The saving grace is, I doubt most anyone in the game knows about it.

APCR you can fire almost 14 208 mm penetration rounds in a minute (ignoring >100% skill, tank rammer, and other stuff) meaning you can cripple tier VIII heavy tanks without worrying too much about weak spots.

A trait that is shared by almost every peer it has. The difference being if you tried to DPM a T8 in a churchill, you'd lose. Hard. Whereas in the other heavies, you could at least pull of reload trading fairly effectively due to their non terrible alpha (indeed, the KV-1S can even trade favourably with some T8s, as long as they're on lowish health).

Honestly in a fixed Churchill VII the only tanks in my own tier I would fear at all are KV-1S, TOGs, and maybe KV-2s.

I could probably make you reassess this claim with any same-tier tank, due to the aforementioned weak spot that I know about.

I should note that all of this doesn't even remotely make the churchill anything more than the worst tank of its peers. Even 'fixed' it would still be complete garbage.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

This is technically false. There's still a frontal weakspot that p. much anything can penetrate (not the tracks) with or without APCR. The saving grace is, I doubt most anyone in the game knows about it.

Thing is that frontal weak spot is relatively small and hard to hit, much harder if the tank is moving around (I've heard some people refer to wiggling your hull on the BP to avoid letting them hit your weak spots, I just move in general). The track weak spots can be reliably hit from long ranges or while the tank is moving since they are almost as tall as the hull and almost as wide as its wide ass tracks.

A trait that is shared by almost every peer it has. The difference being if you tried to DPM a T8 in a churchill, you'd lose. Hard. Whereas in the other heavies, you could at least pull of reload trading fairly effectively due to their non terrible alpha (indeed, the KV-1S can even trade favourably with some T8s, as long as they're on lowish health).

Why are you trying to DPM a higher tier tank in a churchill line tank? I am proposing crippling tanks by shooting out its modules and crew. A tank with no commander, no gunner, a constantly broken track, a jammed turret, and a damaged gun is pretty damn useless and an easy kill for your allies. Since you are a low priority target being a slow, small caliber gun, low tier heavy it allows you to more freely engage enemies and cripple them. The enemies would much rather shoot that IS-3 than that Churchill plinking away at them.

I could probably make you reassess this claim with any same-tier tank, due to the aforementioned weak spot that I know about.

Not when I get up into your face and shoot you apart point blank where you can only shoot my 152 mm turret because I am so short.

I should note that all of this doesn't even remotely make the churchill anything more than the worst tank of its peers. Even 'fixed' it would still be complete garbage.

Better pen than all German guns sans those on TDs
Better armour than any tank in its tier and most tanks in the next tier
High hp for its tier (not that it matters because tier VII heavies have almost twice the hp of tier VI heavies for some reason)
High rof
Very low profile compared to other heavies in its tier

Honestly its only real downsides are its lack of mobility, its lack of a mantlet, and a few relatively small frontal weak spots. Using that logic the T29 is crap because it has poor hull armour and is slow.