Wargaming.net Mega-thread, part 2 (WoT, WoWP, WoWS)

[Oaledonia]

I find the T21 surprisingly painless tbh. Far from good, though.

If you're interested in (potentially) good and certainly unique light tanks, I'd start working on the Chaffee in preparation for the new American light tanks coming out in 9.3.

The reason it's painful right now is because I'm grinding away from the 6 pounder.

But New American Light tanks!

I dream waaaaaaaay too big Do you have a list of what they are?

[Oaledonia]

Oh wait what the fuck, they're actually adding it?

[Licana]

No missile and a different hull, but yes.

[Oaledonia]

No missile and a different hull, but yes.

Well tbf the Shillelagh and hull were horri-bad irl anyways. But I'm playing xbox, cuz my gaming PC died... So I'll get the Chaffee and wait, which might not be that long seeing as they added the toaster tree before the French tree.

[Licana]

Considering the time and the requirements of the design, I don't think it's fair to call the missile bad.

Also ripping on the armour of a tank designed to be dropped from an airplane and drive off afterwards seems a tad unfair, though I suppose in the context of this game you'd be fair.

[Oaledonia]

Considering the time and the requirements of the design, I don't think it's fair to call the missile bad.

Also ripping on the armour of a tank designed to be dropped from an airplane and drive off afterwards seems a tad unfair, though I suppose in the context of this game you'd be fair.

There was a million different things wrong with the missile, but the thing that received the most criticism was the range of the missile because of the Army's absurd requirements. The hull was made of aluminum and couldn't traverse, and could be pierced by AP rounds from low caliber auto-cannons. The fucking thing was too loud, and it put a lot of strain of the suspension and the crew when it fired.

[Licana]

Still did its job of outranging the contemporary armament of most tanks at the time.

I also can't stress enough that it was made to fall out of aircraft and still be serviceable. There are going to be significant sacrifices that have to be made in order to get it to this.

tbh I've found a lot of the criticism leveled against the Sheridan unfair. It can be destroyed by autocannons? So can damn near anything that fulfills its role, even in modern times. Ditto with the aluminium construction. Too loud?? So is war. The only really valid complaint you made is putting strain on the suspension (which was only true when firing nonguided munitions) but, that being said, this is a problem that is difficult to deal with in modern times, let alone back in the late 60s.

So once again, I think for the time and the role, calling it bad is unfair.

[Oaledonia]

Still did its job of outranging the contemporary armament of most tanks at the time.

I also can't stress enough that it was made to fall out of aircraft and still be serviceable. There are going to be significant sacrifices that have to be made in order to get it to this.

tbh I've found a lot of the criticism leveled against the Sheridan unfair. It can be destroyed by autocannons? So can damn near anything that fulfills its role, even in modern times. Ditto with the aluminium construction. Too loud?? So is war. The only really valid complaint you made is putting strain on the suspension (which was only true when firing nonguided munitions) but, that being said, this is a problem that is difficult to deal with in modern times, let alone back in the late 60s.

So once again, I think for the time and the role, calling it bad is unfair.

Not really, the armament wasn't really needed, that's the point. The army could have out ranged and destroyed soviet tanks with double the range with the ARES 75mm autocannon on the tank, but instead went with the 152mm to attempt a common ammunition for the Starship and the MBT-70. The thing was loud, yes war is too, but it made a very distinct vibrating noise that could be heard from miles away. The army attempted to make the tank an airborne tank destroyer, which is dumb. If they really wanted a good airborne tank, they would have gone with this. For some reason it needed to swim, even though none of NATOs war plans called for swimming during the cold war.

[Licana]

Not really, the armament wasn't really needed, that's the point. The army could have out ranged and destroyed soviet tanks with double the range with the ARES 75mm autocannon on the tank, but instead went with the 152mm to attempt a common ammunition for the Starship and the MBT-70. The thing was loud, yes war is too, but it made a very distinct vibrating noise that could be heard from miles away. The army attempted to make the tank an airborne tank destroyer, which is dumb. If they really wanted a good airborne tank, they would have gone with this. For some reason it needed to swim, even though none of NATOs war plans called for swimming during the cold war.

The Sheridan may have been intended to be purely a tank destroyer (though I find this slightly dubious) but it ended up being used more often as a general fire support vehicle, something that the large caliber HE and HEAT rounds (and even the missiles themselves, during the gulf war) proved to be quite good at. I don't think the same could have been said for the much lighter 75mm rounds of the ARES. In fact, it could be easy to argue that utilizing the ARES platform would have made it an overly niche vehicle that would have, in the end, reduced its usefulness, especially considering that the weapon system had roughly equivalent penetration to the Shillelagh. In fact, I would think that their choices in armament would indicate that they did not think of this as a simple, pure tank destroyer at all, hence why they pursued this design as opposed to the T92 or the RDF/LT.

Most tracked are very loud and can be heard from a great distance away. I'm not sure what your point is here, that the vehicle would be identifiable as a sheridan? That's a little like saying that AKMs are bad because they have a distinct sound.

[Oaledonia]

In fact, it could be easy to argue that utilizing the ARES platform would have made it an overly niche vehicle that would have, in the end, reduced its usefulness, especially considering that the weapon system had roughly equivalent penetration to the Shillelagh

So, what you are telling me, is that if they would have used a weapon with more ammo types, double range, and more ammunition, it would be overly niche?

Btw these are confirmed, right? I have a soft spot for the Sheridan :3

[Licana]

So, what you are telling me, is that if they would have used a weapon with more ammo types, double range, and more ammunition, it would be overly niche?

More types of ammunition does not necessarily translate into more useful types of ammunition. Ditto with a larger amount of carried ammo. Considering this, then yes, that is exactly what I am telling you.

I also seriously doubt it could accurately fire at 6 km, a commonly stated figure for the maximum range of the sheridan's missile.

Btw these are confirmed, right? I have a soft spot for the Sheridan :3

Yes, they are confirmed.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

I thought we had wanted a number of different vehicles to be amphibious in Europe at least since there were a rather large number of rivers there? Although that drifted out later with large engineering forces if I recall someone saying that correctly, but for a vehicle that could be engaging in forward operations with the amphibious capability to prevent reliance on support assets seems like it would have been use. Obviously my knowledge concerning NATO war plans with armored forces is a bit more limited too, that is just what I had heard.

[Revanchism]

I find the T21 surprisingly painless tbh. Far from good, though.

If you're interested in (potentially) good and certainly unique light tanks, I'd start working on the Chaffee in preparation for the new American light tanks coming out in 9.3.

Are the Soviet and Russian lights coming out too?

BTW, Oale, if you ever want to platoon, I usually run on NA East server and have plenty of tanks throughout the tiers.

[Oaledonia]

I thought we had wanted a number of different vehicles to be amphibious in Europe at least since there were a rather large number of rivers there? Although that drifted out later with large engineering forces if I recall someone saying that correctly, but for a vehicle that could be engaging in forward operations with the amphibious capability to prevent reliance on support assets seems like it would have been use. Obviously my knowledge concerning NATO war plans with armored forces is a bit more limited too, that is just what I had heard.

Name me 5 other mainstream amphibious NATO tanks/APCs/IFV

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

I thought we had wanted a number of different vehicles to be amphibious in Europe at least since there were a rather large number of rivers there? Although that drifted out later with large engineering forces if I recall someone saying that correctly, but for a vehicle that could be engaging in forward operations with the amphibious capability to prevent reliance on support assets seems like it would have been use. Obviously my knowledge concerning NATO war plans with armored forces is a bit more limited too, that is just what I had heard.

Name me 5 other mainstream amphibious NATO tanks/APCs/IFV

M113
M59 although that was the preccessor of the M113 so doesn't entirely fit.
VAB is amphibious but only is really used by the French in NATO so note sure if counts.
AMX-10 and its derivates is amphibious but not sure if that counts again due to France being the only NATO nation using it.
ERC 90 is amphibious but once again...

Seems to be so with most French vehicles but then they needed that in their area of operations.

Bradley was supposed to be amphibious initially but wasn't in the final incarnations so doesn't count.
It seems the FV 430's older variants can get a flotation screen so amphibious with preparation, and it was used by the UK and Canada.
FV 101 seems to be somewhat similar with the ability to deploy a flotation screen, and was used by a few NATO nations.
LAV-25 and a number of derivates (Although not the latest ones) appears to be amphibious.

Again I want to emphasize my ignorance of deeper aspects of NATO strategy and that I'm not trying to be belligerent.

[Revanchism]

M113

Hydrogavin

[Morrdh]

VAB is amphibious but only is really used by the French in NATO so note sure if counts.
AMX-10 and its derivates is amphibious but not sure if that counts again due to France being the only NATO nation using it.
ERC 90 is amphibious but once again...

Seems to be so with most French vehicles but then they needed that in their area of operations.

Then again France wasn't part of NATO for a good 40 odd years from 1966 until about 2009.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

It wasn't part of the direct command chain, but it was part of the alliance as a whole. And there were plans in war for how the French military would be part of the integrated operations, even if they weren't part of the command structure in peace time.

[Magma8520]

Hello!

I just crashed to the forum after a long time on and off with my nation.
MAGMA8520

Well, i hail from World of Tanks Forum directly, Hello to you all here. oh and from WoT's Girls und Panzer thread.

Here's one of my personal fanart for you all :

I'm Alkaidstar777 in WoT-NA , just PM me in forum or ingame if you want to platoon, or just socialize.

Primary Tanks: JagdTiger 88, KingTiger, IS-3, E50, WZ120

btw, looking for people who interested in Miltiary Animes and games to socialize with my nation.

[Val Nube]

Name me 5 other mainstream amphibious NATO tanks/APCs/IFV

M113
M163/M741
M58
M106
M125
M132
M548
M577
M579
M688
M901
M981
M1015
M1059
M1064
M1068

[Morrdh]

Black Prince currently has 30% discount and I need another 500k credits to get the Centurion I.

Decisions, decisions, decisions....

EDIT: The Black Prince it is.

My ex-Cromwell crew will be knocking back the pints and playing darts until their new steed arrives.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Black Prince currently has 30% discount and I need another 500k credits to get the Centurion I.

Decisions, decisions, decisions....

EDIT: The Black Prince it is.

My ex-Cromwell crew will be knocking back the pints and playing darts until their new steed arrives.

Black Prince is weird. I think that Bohemian Eagle guy on youtube said it best, on paper it is a shit tank, its armour is theoretically worse than the Churchill VII and its gun is pretty meh for its tier (at least a heavy tank of its tier) but something about the BP just makes it fun to drive. It is slow as fuck but nimble, meaning it tops out at 20 km/h but it reaches that speed quickly and maintains it easily, beating tanks like the IS and Tiger H in uphill races, its gun has crap DPM and meh pen, its turret armour is actually 240 mm in most places and its weak spots aren't that weak, plus it is in second place in HP just behind the tiger H. Honestly it is nice to think of it as a TOG++ significantly better armour, much smaller, a little more health, more agile, and a tier higher.

Hull down it is like a mini T29 with a smaller gun and somewhat less armour but still a very hard nut to crack, UFG and turret exposed it is much more vulnerable but with some angling you can take hits like a champ. LFG exposed it is pretty much the same since the LFG has some angling and probably has the same effective thickness as the UFG. It has really thick side armour and a centre mounted turret meaning it can sidescrape better than any tier VII heavy.

Overall it is a pretty fun tank, especially when it is on top because it is a TOG++ and as a result can do everything a TOG does but better. Nothing like slaying an entire platoon of KV-1S who thought that 170 mm pen was enough to punch through your unangled turret. I remember once I faced down a combination of like 3 hellcats, a sherman, and a jackson TD in my BP alone and killed them all simply because I could take everything they shot at me.

[Morrdh]

Black Prince currently has 30% discount and I need another 500k credits to get the Centurion I.

Decisions, decisions, decisions....

EDIT: The Black Prince it is.

My ex-Cromwell crew will be knocking back the pints and playing darts until their new steed arrives.

Black Prince is weird. I think that Bohemian Eagle guy on youtube said it best, on paper it is a shit tank, its armour is theoretically worse than the Churchill VII and its gun is pretty meh for its tier (at least a heavy tank of its tier) but something about the BP just makes it fun to drive. It is slow as fuck but nimble, meaning it tops out at 20 km/h but it reaches that speed quickly and maintains it easily, beating tanks like the IS and Tiger H in uphill races, its gun has crap DPM and meh pen, its turret armour is actually 240 mm in most places and its weak spots aren't that weak, plus it is in second place in HP just behind the tiger H. Honestly it is nice to think of it as a TOG++ significantly better armour, much smaller, a little more health, more agile, and a tier higher.

Hull down it is like a mini T29 with a smaller gun and somewhat less armour but still a very hard nut to crack, UFG and turret exposed it is much more vulnerable but with some angling you can take hits like a champ. LFG exposed it is pretty much the same since the LFG has some angling and probably has the same effective thickness as the UFG. It has really thick side armour and a centre mounted turret meaning it can sidescrape better than any tier VII heavy.

Overall it is a pretty fun tank, especially when it is on top because it is a TOG++ and as a result can do everything a TOG does but better. Nothing like slaying an entire platoon of KV-1S who thought that 170 mm pen was enough to punch through your unangled turret. I remember once I faced down a combination of like 3 hellcats, a sherman, and a jackson TD in my BP alone and killed them all simply because I could take everything they shot at me.

First game in the Black Prince

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Would anyone on the NA server be willing to try and run an ELC platoon? I just got mine today and the idea of 3 ELCs hunting artillery in a pack seems too fun to not try.

[Hurdegaryp]

It's amazing how fixed MM can ruin the game. When you have been chosen once more for an artifical losing streak, it doesn't matter what you do. The other team has been chosen as the default match winner anyway. No skills, just script.